Talk me off the ledge.

[BrookValley.]

Can I have a selfish meltdown?

 

I am *this* close to sending my nearly six-year old to school. THIS CLOSE. As in I've told my husband I'm out, I'm done. I've looked up all the necessary contact info and paperwork to start the ball rolling TODAY to get him enrolled. (DH is not thrilled)

 

It has nothing to do with school. School is fine, it's only kindergarten... It's the rest of our day. Can someone please just tell me that it is normal for a five-year old to be an utterly intolerable heathen? That one day he will have a modicum of impulse control? That one day, I will be able to ask or tell him something politely and he will actually RESPOND? Because right now, I've exhausted every momma strategy in my book (the good, the bad, the ugly) and I'm not even getting a blink in response to anything that comes out of my mouth.

 

Yeah, I know, parenting is tough. Yeah, I know, sending him to school becuase *I* cannot deal at the moment is really, really poor parenting strategy. It is a total cop-out. That is so not my style. I don't want my kiddo in school. I'm not against PS, but I'm not supportive of it for these reasons. Sure, my kid is being a normal, high-energy, raving lunatic? Dump him on someone else! UGH! I detest myself for even considering putting him school because I can't stand his attitude. But I am having a god-awful day, and it's not even 10 a.m.

 

What do YOU do when you have had a mommy-meltdown every day for the past two months or so? Because really, I'm tearing my hair out every day here. I'm totally up for hard work in parenting, but I just can't seem to find an effective strategy for, well, anything lately. And that is what is wearing me down. I can be consistent. I can model the behavior I want. I can be patient to a fault...but not when I get absolutely zip zero zilch progress in return.

 

Mabye it's pregnancy hormones. Maybe it's all in my head.

 

This doesn't have to be a JAWM. You can tell me to buck up and deal with parenting my own darn child. Tough skin, I have it. Apparently just *not* where my young child is concerned. His words level me.

[AK_Mom4]

:grouphug: :grouphug: You can absolutely have a pregnant mama melt-down here. It's OK.

 

Every single one of us (pregnant or not) has been in your shoes at some point with kids (ours or someone elses).

 

:grouphug: :grouphug:

 

My only concrete advice for surviving today is to stop talking to him. For today, if you want him to do something, get down on his level, give a simple command then take his hand and lead him where you want him to be. Things may not get done, but at least you will save your voice and not be yelling.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I'm not going to tell you to buck up. Parenting is hard. It is okay if you want to send your child to school for the rest of the year, for a full year, or for longer. It is okay if you want to keep him home.

 

I am going to ask. Is the behavior your child exhibits normal for the age? It helps to look around you, ask around, and read up. If it is normal, then yes it will pass. If it is not normal, what is different than the norm and is there anything you can do to help your child adjust.

 

If you can get a small break, take it. Make him take a nap, send him to his room, put on a video and have him sit and watch it. I am of course assuming he'll cooperate with one of these ideas......I know they don't always....five year old's can be exhausting. Heck, any age can be exhausting.

 

Breathe. :grouphug:

[bpskowski]

"I'd stop playing serious, and seriously play.

I'd do more hugging, and less tugging.

I would be firm less often, and affirm much more."

 

Some lines from a poem I read somewhere.

 

This is how my one dd responds. The more tense and angrier I am, the worse her behavior. Give both yourselves some peace (especially at this stage of life).

[Starr]

Lots of outside time and quiet time for both of you every afternoon. :grouphug:

[T'smom]

It's almost he weekend. Can dh take him somewhere all day Saturday? Maybe all day Sunday too? Or stay home with him while you get away? Especially if he's not happy with the idea of sending him to school, he should help you get a break.

 

I don't have any harsh words for you. I have a 5 yo boy too.

[sewingmama]

Thanks for the post. You just reminded me I was going to look up schools for my 6 yo as well. I have barely done any school for the past two weeks because I just can't face and deal with my DD' s hatred of anything that resembles school. My 5 yo is an angel to teach and my 6 yo is the....well the opposite.

 

I'm struggling with it too. Wondering if it is worth it. Today all I could do was think about how wonderful it would be to have DD gone for 6 hours so I could go 5 minutes without listening to her screaming at and tormenting the boys or whining and refusing to do schoolwork.

 

School would be so inappropriate for her for a number of reasons yet I'm so close to just not caring. There is the slim hope it will be better for her.

 

I know that wasn't at all helpful but you are not alone. Hang in there.

[msjones]

Oh my. This sounds exhausting.

 

I think ps sounds like a reasonable thing to try. He may do really well with some peer pressure and intense structure and a stranger telling him what to do. Or not. At least now you'll know.

 

I agree with lots of outside time (even if the weather stinks).

 

Is there a chance he still needs a nap? I have a friend with a five year old son. He was having a terrible, terrible time in regular K. She took him out and it turns out he still naps when given the chance. The little guy was exhausted and behaving accordingly.

 

One more thing to consider -- When my boys were little I set up something called 'quiet play time' each afternoon. They played alone in a room with a closed door for about 90 minutes -- sometimes more. I set them up with some good toys and music etc and they learned to love it and look forward to it. Believe me, so did I!

[Joanne]

Some questions:

1. Is there any parental depression?
   
2. How much screen time is the family involved in?
   
3. Do you have a structured day, doing the same things in the same order each day?
   
4. Do you have a blend of time working together, playing together, and doing your own thing?
   
5. Do YOU have good self care?
   
6. Does he have a blend of school, play, and chores?
   
7. Do you know who in your family are extroverts and introverts?
   
8. Has there been any increased stress or transitions?
   
9. Does he have age appropripriate level of activities with friends?
   
10. Does he play outside?
    

[Guest inoubliable]

Joanne has some good, practical questions to consider. Beyond that, :grouphug: for you. Some days (weeks? months?) just really suck. Preggo hormones on top of it can make everything seem...more. Hoping that your weekend can be restive and relaxing!

[Eagle]

Pregnancy hormones really amplify frustration (or at least they sure did for me).

 

Could your son be acting out because you are pregnant and not able to do things with him like you did before? Or could he be concerned about the uncertainty of when a sibling arrives?

 

*hugs*. I hope dh can help you get a break this weekend.

[HS Mom in NC]

Is his behavior like this all day every day?

 

Are there any good days?

 

Is his father seeing the same behaviors when he's interacting with your son?

 

Are you having a difficult pregnancy?

 

Could you be a little more specific in your description of his behaviors? I'm trying to decide if "utterly intolerable heathen" and "modicum of impulse control" are phrases that accurately describe extreme behavior on his part or if they're used to communicate the intensity of your emotional response to it all or both. What does your husband say? (Not that he's a final authority that over rides your views on the topic.)

[RoundAbout]

Honestly, I exercise the heck out of my 6 year old. We started off Kindergarten with weekly 15 mile bike rides. We do lots of playground and nature hike time with friends. I'm not sure if its the exercise itself or if its the fact that he sleeps much better then. Either way it is a night or day difference in attitude.

 

Additionally:

 

Clean diet with lots of healthy fats and protein. No sugar, no processed food.

Real responsibilities and chores

Lots and lots of praise in a real, not syrupy way

Realistic expections for school work, especially amount of seat work

A jokey playful attitude when correcting. I save the harshness for things that are really serious/dangerous

An outside person to hold him accountable for his behavior occasionally (swim coach, Y staff)

A happy mom - my DS is very sensitive to my moods.

 

These are just a few things that work for us, ymmv. My son can be a totally awesome mature little fellow or a total terror depending on how much of the above he gets.

 

[BrookValley.]

Thanks everyone. :o I actually thought my post had disappeared into cyberspace and decided that was probably ok...but I just discovered it had posted, and I'm glad. I needed a good vent, and you're giving me some good things to think about.

 

 

I'm not going to quote everyone, but I will try to answer some questions and give more detail. Troubleshooting is a good thing! I *think* my son's behavior is mostly, if not all, normal. He is very active and bright. He is likely bored more often than not. His lack of impulse control (which I believe is age appropriate, however frustrating) is mostly a problem with our animals. He cannot keep himself off our cat (and the cat, being my son's absolute soul mate and just as rowdy/lacking impulse control, doesn't do what any normal cat with an ounce of self-preservation would do and hide under a bed...no, if left to their own devices they feed off each other 'till it's totally out of control). He is also all over the dog constantly. He is not mean or cruel, just an absolute pest. The dog is now up for sainthood. Right now he's off to the living room, instigating the cat for the 547th time today. Maybe I should just lock the two in a room and see how it plays out? (I kid)

 

 

These things are more tolerable to me, though, than his attitude. He has an awful, negative, nasty attitude over the most ridiculous (to me, anyway) things. This is what makes me insane. He's not negative in a depressed kind of way, it's straight up argumentative. He would argue with you that the sky is not blue. Most anything I say or do is met with an argument. For example, it took 15 minutes for him to cool down outside of Panera a week ago because he was ticked off that scientists say Pluto is not a planet. I wasn't even trying to disagree with him, something about it happened to come up on the radio and we were were just talking about it! I explained that I sympathized--when I was a kid, Pluto WAS a planet--but this is what science says today. He was a total jerk about it. I refuse to engage him when he gets this way, so it wasn't like I was perpetuating it by arguing back. Sure, I've been sucked in before, but in general I don't argue with 5-year olds. As I was typing this I stopped to move the cat off the table. I got yelled at, because "the cat is FINE right there! You leave him there!" This type of comment is typical and occurs all day long. My husband and I can't have a conversation about anything without him interjecting and taking one "side" or the other (when there's no argument. We could be discussing what to eat for dinner). If he is rude and I explain, as briefly and succinctly as possible, that I like to treat people politely not only because it's the right thing to do, but because that is how *I* like to be treated, he says he likes to be treated rudely.

 

I do think he gets bored and wants more interaction. A complicating factor is the fact that I work from home full time. I am the sole technical writer and editor for a mid-size company, and right now I'm pretty busy. However, my job doesn't mean I'm on the phone a lot or otherwise cannot give my son attention. I can drag my laptop around wherever and, while I can't always actively play, I don't have to sit around and ignore him. We are able to do our school work. We talk all day. I don't just tell him to "go play" when I need him to do something without me; I try to give him ideas, get him going, talk to him about what he's doing, etc. Plus, I do have a lot of flexibility. The times when I am chained to the computer and must finish a document in a few hours are few. Usually I can work on things as I can, and that means I can wait 'till DH is home if necessary. So he is not just ignored all day, but he still does want constant interaction. He does not want to play by himself. I don't know what to do about that exactly, because I think I am able to give him a pretty good balance/amount of mommy time.

 

As an aside, DH is pretty awesome and does give me a break whenever possible. We also have a farm and I have a lot of animals--DH is also really great about helping me out with them, even though it's not his thing. He's a pretty supportive kind of guy. He doesn't want to send our son to school, but neither do I. If it came down to it, he would support the decision to send him to school if it seemed to be the best thing for everyone. He is equally as frustrated with my son's behavior.

 

I am going to quote and answer Joanne's questions because I think they will fill in some additional blanks/answer other's questions too (and because I can't resist a numbered list):

 

Some questions:

 

1. Is there any parental depression? No, no depression. Overall, I think me and DH are in a pretty good place mentally and emotionally, with ourselves and each other.
   
2. How much screen time is the family involved in? Typically very little. We only have one TV in the house and it's in our bedroom. We all watch about 30 minutes to an hour together in the evening, usually something like "How It's Made" or something on NatGeoWild. We do some Starfall, Reading Eggs, or PBS kids online for the kiddo, though not every day. However, there has been a little more TV lately. I had a rough time with morning sickness with this pregnancy and recently had a two-week bout with the flu. In these instances, I was not above turning on PBS or a nature/science show to get some sleep in the afternoon.
    
   
3. Do you have a structured day, doing the same things in the same order each day? Structured in that we do the same things each day but not structured in the order that we do them. Because of my job, our days are pretty fluid.
    
   
4. Do you have a blend of time working together, playing together, and doing your own thing? Yes. I make time for school, reading together, doing something fun together. As I mentioned before, I work from home, so doing my own thing during the day would be the time I spend working.
    
   
5. Do YOU have good self care? I feel like I do. I am able to take a break when I need it. My husband is pretty supportive, and both my mother and my in-laws are close, so if we want to do something together we can. We eat well and get outdoors a lot.
    
   
6. Does he have a blend of school, play, and chores? Yes, though chores are not organized at this point. He is very willing to help, however. Ironically, if I ask him to help me with something, I don't usually get an argument...
    
   
7. Do you know who in your family are extroverts and introverts? My husband and I are both introverts. Me more so. I'm not sure where my kiddo would fall--I'd lean introvert, of the type that loves to be around people but gets exhausted and burnt out with too much social interaction.
    
   
8. Has there been any increased stress or transitions? I'm 8 months pregnant, so we're about to go through a relatively big transition as a family. We have had lots of discussion and my son has shown no negativity towards the idea of a new baby joining the family. He seems very excited (actually, he's been *begging* for a sibling for years, not that I think he really understands what a new baby means!). What concerns/fears/etc. he may have, he has not voiced--but at five, I don't know if he could voice concerns very articulately, if at all, especially because it hasn't happened yet. So is there some acting out going on in relation to the new baby? Possibly.
    
   
9. Does he have age appropripriate level of activities with friends? We were going to a homeschool get-together at a park once a week, but that fizzled out over the holidays and with the onset of winter weather. He takes ice skating lessons once per week (sometimes we skate one other time each week). We get together with my SIL's kiddos sometimes, but his attitude has been so poor around them (he treats them well--actually, they are pretty bratty/mean/demeaning to him--it's his nasty arguing with adults) I don't think she wants him around them. Aside from ice skating and play dates, he adamantly refuses to participate in any other activities (which I'm fine with. At five, I don't think he needs to play 3 different sports...but more unstructured playtime with other kids would be a good thing).
    
   
10. Does he play outside? Yes! We live on a 60-acre farm. I send him outside ALL the time. He will happily play outdoors where I can keep an eye on him. I'll even send him out in bad weather if he needs to burn energy. There's lots of opportunity for him to dig, run, kick around the soccer ball or shoot hoops, ride his bike or scooter, etc. etc. I try to make sure he goes out OFTEN.
    

 

 

 

Sorry this got so long. I really do appreciate everyone's posts. :)

[hillfarm]

I am going to mention this even though I know it will not be popular with many. However, I do want to get it out there as a consideration.

 

When my dd was that age, I did a special unit on obedience and authority for a whole year as part of her schooling. We covered everything from who our authorities are and what is a proper response to them (and explained that while she had her authorities, so did dh and I) to what to do if one of our authorities asks us to do something we consider immoral or wrong. We had stories about kids who obeyed and thrived and those who disobeyed and dealt with unpleasant consequences. We discussed local news stories that were appropriate that dealt with response to authority. We even practiced authority and obedience by playing many Mother May I type games. (And I often noticed an immediate improvement in her around the house after playing those games.)

 

The reason for this, in addition to the fact that it is in keeping with our religious and cultural traditions, is that we live on a small farm at the edge of nearly 40,000 acres of undeveloped forest. For safety reasons, I knew we needed first time obedience every time when we were outdoors. I realize that personality and many other factors also come into play, but dd is far from a shrinking violet now that she is 14yo. She has a strong, independent spirit and a fully developed sense of herself. She is not a pushover in any sense of the word.

 

I mention this because it sounds like your ds may have some issues with obedience and your authority over him. I cannot recall a single example of this that has gotten better as the child got older - a 6yo who will not obey his mother will be even less likely to obey her when he is 16. I'm not talking about automaton-like compliance, I am talking about taking direction during the course of a normal day and observing the ongoing rules your family has.

 

I strongly suggest you enforce better behavior with the pets, or have him risk limited or no access to them. They don't deserve to be treated roughtly or inappropriately. And you never know when one of them might reach their final straw and turn on him. I feel this is a recipe for disaster to let excessive rough housing or pestering continue with them.

 

Certainly with you being pregnant and other considerations, obedience is not the only issue you are facing. However, I strongly believe that equipping a child with the skills to control their impulses and to evaluate and choose positive actions instead of negative ones will pay hansome dividends for the rest of your child's life. In my opinion, parents do their children a disservice by allowing them to shrug off obedience to authority. Because I can guarantee that their future employeers will not be so open minded. Nor will local law enforcement. Or the DMV, or the IRS.

[BrookValley.]

Well see, here's the thing: I'm pretty consistent in not allowing disobedience over several things, including (especially) the animals. I do limit access to them when I can, and I do not stand for his rough play. But short of abusive behavior on my part (duct taping him to the wall?), which obviously I won't go for, there is NOTHING I have tried that has the desired effect. Not one thing. No amount of patience, consistency, gentleness, toughness, physically removing him from the situation, etc, etc. So while I totally agree with you on the obedience thing, I'm not *letting* him get away with any of this. I'm not a total dictator, but I am very firm and consistent with the things that matter (issues of safety, the animals, treating other people kindly/politely). I simply have not one tool available to make him understand/get him to comply.

[hillfarm]

Regarding the animals, could you remove them from the room if your ds is acting inappropriately with them? Let the animals be in a locked basement, room, garage, etc. for a bit of down time? Short of mugging you for the key or beating the door down, there wouldn't be any way he could disobey in such a situation.

 

Have you actually tried any of the obedience games, such as Mother May I or Simon Says? I was really surprised at how well the concepts from the game seemed to carry over automatically into dd's behavior at other times. It was like she needed the patterning of the games as an example. Probably didn't hurt that I'd reinforce it by parceling out a few M&M's or new Legos or whatever for correct responses.

 

Where is your dh or your ds's father on the issue of obedience and compliance? Does he get any better response? Is there anyone in his life who can get him to obey? How does that person do it? Why is he willing to subjugate his desire to do what he wants to his desire to obey that person? You might try to find one little area of great behavior and then build off of that one area.

 

You mention consistency with things that matter, such as treating others kindly. If your ds can master that, even some of the time, then he has the ability to work toward improving at home and in family settings. We all need a little time to go nuts and be a real stinker, but that should be the exception and not the rule.

 

I think you have several things going for you. You care enough to keep struggling with this. You obviously love your child. You see the bigger picture. I'm sure he also has many things going for him as well. If you can't create some movement on this issue soon, perhaps it might be good to seek the assistance of a good child psychologist to help easy you both over the roughest spots.

[Catwoman]

I don't have any ideas for you, but I wanted to send you some :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[8circles]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: I have a 5 yr-old boy, too.

[melissad2]

I have a 6yo son who sounds just like yours. It's exhausting! :grouphug:

I also meltdown nearly everyday.

[thebacabunch]

My dd was just like that. Turns out she is high functioning autistic. Have you ever considered having him evaluated for any spectrum or adhd issues?

[melissad2]

My dd was just like that. Turns out she is high functioning autistic. Have you ever considered having him evaluated for any spectrum or adhd issues?

 

:iagree:

I had mine evaluated for adhd and he is now on medication. It is helping some but I'm still working on some behavior modification. I can at least get him to finish a "time out" now.

[happypamama]

When my 4yo was being wild and crazy a few days ago (it's crummy weather here -- bitterly windy, rainy/snowy, half-frozen-half-thawed so our yard is all squishy, just not at all nice weather for being outside, and my energy for walks is pretty nil right now, being pregnant as well), I took him (and his 1yo shadow) into the kitchen and showed them how to do jumping jacks and running races and other little exercises. 20 minutes or so of that, and 4yo calmed down like you would not believe. Then he was able to play quietly enough that the big two kids could work without him distracting them. I wish I had a trampoline for the littles to bounce on.

 

Now, my almost 11yo is super active and always has been. 4yo son is normal 4yo boy active; 11yo DD is extra active. She also has trouble paying attention. It takes much more effort to keep her on track, so I understand your frustration. (She's also very bright and creative.)