After FLL... sigh... I still really wish there could be an ALL.

[Sahamamama]

That just about sums it up. We enjoyed the gentleness of FLL 1 & 2. This year, we are enjoying FLL 3. Next year, we will probably like FLL 4, too. And then...

 

I'm glad that PHP is publishing WWS, truly I am. I just wish they could do it all, LOL. ;)

 

ALL, you are missed. Sniff, sniff.

[weederberries]

Yes. I just found out that there isn't anything coming next. We're in book 4 right now. I have no idea where to start looking for the next step and I'm afraid I'll drift through 3-4 other curricula before we find something we like.

 

 

Waaaaaaa! Pity Party at my house!

[weederberries]

This has probably been discussed, but WHY??

[texasmama]

I went through a grief process for a year after the announcement that ALL would not be published. Then I picked up Rod and Staff 5, and we are doing okay. But I am still a little sad...

[Sahamamama]

I went through a grief process for a year after the announcement that ALL would not be published. Then I picked up Rod and Staff 5, and we are doing okay. But I am still a little sad...

Texasmama,

 

Do you like R & S? Can you convince me to try to like it (whiny voice)? ;) I'm just having a tantrum. That's all.

 

We tried R & S English 2 this year and lasted a whole week. :ack2: My daughter was okay with it. The problem was me. I could not stomach those lessons for some reason. They felt like a decent English lesson at a bad Vacation Bible School -- where God is always watching, and will ZAP you if you put the apostrophe in the wrong place. IDK, as conservative as I am in some things, that rubbed me the wrong way. I like that FLL keeps the "religion" out of grammar, KWIM? It's grammar, just grammar. It's just nouns -- not nouns and a moral lesson about Martha working diligently. Or whatever. What a relief.

 

So how is R & S English 5? Was it a good, smooth transition? Was it the right level, after completing FLL 1-4? What are the things you like about it? Dislike about it? All ears...

[texasmama]

Texasmama,

 

Do you like R & S? Can you convince me to try to like it (whiny voice)? ;) I'm just having a tantrum. That's all. I have a love-hate relationship with R & S. :D

 

We tried R & S English 2 this year and lasted a whole week. :ack2: My daughter was okay with it. The problem was me. I could not stomach those lessons for some reason. They felt like a decent English lesson at a bad Vacation Bible School -- where God is always watching, and will ZAP you if you put the apostrophe in the wrong place. IDK, as conservative as I am in some things, that rubbed me the wrong way. I like that FLL keeps the "religion" out of grammar, KWIM? It's grammar, just grammar. It's just nouns -- not nouns and a moral lesson about Martha working diligently. Or whatever. What a relief. R & S is very, very religious, and I am conservative, too. I have just gotten used to it, I think. It uses King James Bible verses. If you have a sense of humor and are open to laughing a bit at some of the archaic language used, it can interject fun into your grammar. For instance, my son and I still laugh about the sentence that presented how someone "smote his distressed knees together". It was a hoot.

 

So how is R & S English 5? Was it a good, smooth transition? Was it the right level, after completing FLL 1-4? What are the things you like about it? Dislike about it? All ears... My son hated it initially, but he has accepted it now. Language arts is the area he struggles in, though, so I'm sure this contributed. I think my other two kids will make a smoother transition from FFL 4 to R&S 5. R & S is very straightforward and very rigorous. I don't think I could find a more thorough grammar program. It is not "fun". It is all business. For my son, the amount of work is sometimes too much, so I do adjust it. Also, we do much of it orally. It is meant to be used for classrooms, but it adapts very easily to the homeschool environment. The teacher's manual provides all of the answers. The explanations are very thorough. The language used is a bit different than FLL, but I have encountered this with other programs, as well. I don't find this to be problematic. In fact, I see it as a strength because they kids will learn different terminology. (Can't think of a specific example right now, of course...) So if you are looking for rigorous, systematic, and straightforward, you will be happy. :) I plan to continue with R & S with all three kids for the remainder of their grammar instruction, if that helps as an endorsement. However, I won't be able to talk you into it. You will need to do that for yourself. ;)

 

Please excuse the lack of paragraph breaks. IE won't allow it on this site. Weird.

[mom2att]

Not Texasmama, but I have a child in R & S 5 right now, after having completed all of the FLL series. The transition to R & S after FLL was very smooth. I have a feeling that JW used R & S as a guide in writing FLL, because the definitions are so similar that they segue nicely. What I like about R & S is that is takes the concepts that have already learned and plunges in deeper. Way back in the dark ages before FLL was published, the WTM recommendation for grammar was Abeka. So I dutifully did book 3 with my oldest, then 4, and by 5 I was ready throw it out the window because it was the same old thing over again, just with longer sentences. R & S is not like this, or at least the jump from FLL to R & S is not like this. I am learning things about grammar that I may have known intituitively, but never really understood why. I like that it is taking what my son already knows and building on it instead of just drilling over and over.

 

I will admit to some level of eye rolling on my part when it comes to some of the sentences, but know that there are lots (and lots and lots) of sentences to choose from and that you can easily leave those that are extremely pious or annoyingly cheerful out. R & S does have a lot of writing when compared to FLL, especially considering it is a textbook rather than a fill-in-the-blank workbook. But we have solved this by doing all of it orally. If you wanted some pencil and paper work you could certainly pick and choose some lessons to write down, but I've found it's fine for us to talk about it and do questions/answers orally.

 

So, there you have it. I will likely continue with R & S with my middle child, and I plan on having my younger one move into R & S after he finishes with the FLL sequence. I've found that the things that I don't like about it are easy enough to work around, and it's a good, solid program.

[weederberries]

Maybe, just maybe, Ms. Wise will release ALL as an ebook? I know of several books that didn't make it to press for one reason or another and were subsequently released as ebooks. I don't need perfectly formatted pages, just a smooth transition from the one thing that has worked for us from day one to the next level.

[ElizabethB]

We're enjoying MCT here! I do FLL in the younger years and then switch to MCT.

[Melissa in Australia]

:001_cool:

[Another Lynn]

Texasmama,

 

Do you like R & S? Can you convince me to try to like it (whiny voice)? ;) I'm just having a tantrum. That's all.

 

We tried R & S English 2 this year and lasted a whole week. :ack2: My daughter was okay with it. The problem was me. I could not stomach those lessons for some reason. They felt like a decent English lesson at a bad Vacation Bible School -- where God is always watching, and will ZAP you if you put the apostrophe in the wrong place. IDK, as conservative as I am in some things, that rubbed me the wrong way. I like that FLL keeps the "religion" out of grammar, KWIM? It's grammar, just grammar. It's just nouns -- not nouns and a moral lesson about Martha working diligently. Or whatever. What a relief.

 

So how is R & S English 5? Was it a good, smooth transition? Was it the right level, after completing FLL 1-4? What are the things you like about it? Dislike about it? All ears...

 

We didn't last longer than half a year with R&S and it wasn't the VBS feel to it..... it was because we were so much in the trees and never seeing the whole forest. My oldest is trying HAKE Grammar grade 8 this year and going well with it ... and doing it fairly independently. Also, the review in R&S is partly in the Teacher's Guide to do orally and I hate trying to figure out what's written to me in a Teacher's Guide vs. what is written to them, etc. (I guess I'm just anti-Teacher's Guides, lol). Everyone says they don't do all of a R&S lesson, but I never knew how much was enough and how much review to do. (I'm not a "natural" teacher) With Hake the review is built into the review set. He does the whole lesson, but we use it as a consumable which saves him time.... he writes in the book. I would definitely take a look at Hake before you resign yourself to R&S. Just my .02.

[boscopup]

I felt the same way as you about R&S 2. It acted like it would be a SIN to use improper grammar. They used Bible verses out of context to make that point. It was ridiculous. The grade 3 book gets much better, and grade 4 even better. I haven't seen 5 yet, but we'll use it next year. I'm *really* liking 4 this year, even though I had a love/hate relationship with the curriculum in previous years. We also have fun with some of the usage stuff, like reading sentences in a really rural accent including words like "youons" (my son has never heard or said "youons", so this clearly wasn't a lesson to dwell on... and I live in a rural area of Alabama!). Sometimes I have tears in my eyes because I'm laughing so hard. English can be fun, even with R&S! :lol:

 

As far as how much to do. I take TM in hand and have son use student text. I then read the lesson to him (for some reason, if he reads it on his own, he doesn't get it, but if I read it aloud, he gets it...and this is a kid that learns a lot from reading books on his own - I don't get it, but oh well). We go over the Oral Drill section, orally. ;) Then I assign the Written Practice and Review & Practice sections. I usually assign about half the exercises. So his work might be:

 

Written Practice

A. odds

B. evens

Review & Practice

A. odds

B. evens

C. all

 

And in that case, C might be something where it's just a few questions about parts of speech or maybe just writing one sentence using a particular part of speech, etc. I look at how much writing is involved when assigning things. If they're to write sentences, I'll only assign 2 or 3. If it's writing a single word, he can certainly handle at least half or even all of the exercises. Looking at the TM answers helps in seeing the writing involved. If there is diagramming, I have him do 2 or 3 that are *different* from each other (ie, one might be subject/verb/direct-object and another is subject/verb/predicate-noun - he has to remember which way to do each one).

[Miss Tick]

SWB had a thread a week ago wondering what to call the next book(s) after FLL, so maybe hope is on the horizon. She said she was looking at a manuscript on her computer - I have no idea if thst means "just getting restarted" or "almost done."

[mommyto4]

We are enjoying R&S Grade 5, and found it to be a smooth transition from FLL4. My son enjoys the different sentences and glimpse into a different way of life. The oral usage sections always make us laugh!

 

We do half of the problems, and I can always motivate my son to finish them without complaining by reminding him of the Mennonite children who have to do all of the problems.

 

I am looking forward to Grade 6!

[stripe]

SWB had a thread a week ago wondering what to call the next book(s) after FLL, so maybe hope is on the horizon. She said she was looking at a manuscript on her computer - I have no idea if thst means "just getting restarted" or "almost done."

 

That was actually a really old thread that someone stumbled across and brought back to life.

[persephone43]

ElizabethB...where do you suggest to starting in MCT after FLL? Island, Town...? I've been looking at MCT for years now and I'm really excited to use it, but not sure where to begin. I have a 5th grader FLL 3 because he needed remedial work and will go through both that and FLL 4 first. Thanks!

[JudoMom]

Don't judge R&S English by book 2. It has a different feel than the rest of the series. While the rest of the books are definitely Christian and influenced by Mennonite culture, you don't feel as though you're going to be smitten for using incorrect grammar.

[Sahamamama]

I felt the same way as you about R&S 2. It acted like it would be a SIN to use improper grammar. They used Bible verses out of context to make that point. It was ridiculous. The grade 3 book gets much better, and grade 4 even better. I haven't seen 5 yet, but we'll use it next year. I'm *really* liking 4 this year, even though I had a love/hate relationship with the curriculum in previous years. We also have fun with some of the usage stuff, like reading sentences in a really rural accent including words like "youons" (my son has never heard or said "youons", so this clearly wasn't a lesson to dwell on... and I live in a rural area of Alabama!). Sometimes I have tears in my eyes because I'm laughing so hard. English can be fun, even with R&S! :lol:

 

As far as how much to do. I take TM in hand and have son use student text. I then read the lesson to him (for some reason, if he reads it on his own, he doesn't get it, but if I read it aloud, he gets it...and this is a kid that learns a lot from reading books on his own - I don't get it, but oh well). We go over the Oral Drill section, orally. ;) Then I assign the Written Practice and Review & Practice sections. I usually assign about half the exercises. So his work might be:

 

Written Practice

A. odds

B. evens

Review & Practice

A. odds

B. evens

C. all

 

And in that case, C might be something where it's just a few questions about parts of speech or maybe just writing one sentence using a particular part of speech, etc. I look at how much writing is involved when assigning things. If they're to write sentences, I'll only assign 2 or 3. If it's writing a single word, he can certainly handle at least half or even all of the exercises. Looking at the TM answers helps in seeing the writing involved. If there is diagramming, I have him do 2 or 3 that are *different* from each other (ie, one might be subject/verb/direct-object and another is subject/verb/predicate-noun - he has to remember which way to do each one).

 

 

Hi, Boscopup --

 

I thought you were using KISS? What happened with KISS? I'm just curious, because I remember you were using it (I think?). I like the suggestions for how to line up the work with R & S. Thanks!

 

We are enjoying R&S Grade 5, and found it to be a smooth transition from FLL4. My son enjoys the different sentences and glimpse into a different way of life. The oral usage sections always make us laugh!

 

We do half of the problems, and I can always motivate my son to finish them without complaining by reminding him of the Mennonite children who have to do all of the problems.

 

I am looking forward to Grade 6!

 

 

Excellent strategy, LOL!

 

Don't judge R&S English by book 2. It has a different feel than the rest of the series. While the rest of the books are definitely Christian and influenced by Mennonite culture, you don't feel as though you're going to be smitten for using incorrect grammar.

 

 

Thanks, JudoMom, I had heard this about R & S English 2 -- it's not characteristic of the rest of the series. Thanks for reminding me, it's good to consider.

 

Another thought about English 2 -- perhaps a 2nd grader is too literal to laugh it off, if the lesson becomes too moralistic. "If our sentences are true and kind, then God is pleased with our sentences." Sounds like this belongs in Character Study to me, instead of a grammar book, but that's just me, I guess. But by the time we're through with FLL 4 -- and we're not in any hurry -- she might be in 5th grade, so better able to let some of it roll off her back, KWIM? That's worth keeping in mind.

 

Thanks for listening to my whiny tantrum. :)

[TracyP]

:lurk5:

 

I thought ALL looked great, too. *sigh* I keep thinking about R&S, but... but...

 

It is good to hear the positive reviews, especially about the older grades.

[ElizabethB]

ElizabethB...where do you suggest to starting in MCT after FLL? Island, Town...? I've been looking at MCT for years now and I'm really excited to use it, but not sure where to begin. I have a 5th grader FLL 3 because he needed remedial work and will go through both that and FLL 4 first. Thanks!

 

I moved to Island after FLL 1/2. I used bits and portions of 3/4 as a reference. I would think Town after 3/4. But, the poetry in Island has a few things that aren't in Town. I really enjoyed the poetry and learned things from every poetry level, including Island. My daughter didn't enjoy the poetry as much but loved the series overall.

[boscopup]

I thought you were using KISS? What happened with KISS? I'm just curious, because I remember you were using it (I think?). I like the suggestions for how to line up the work with R & S. Thanks!

 

Yes, I was using KISS. We did level 1, and I got burned out (kid was fine - it was all me). I also was wanting something a bit more independent - teach him and let him go work on his own. KISS really wasn't that way. R&S is. I had R&S 4, so I opened it up, skipped some lessons in the beginning that were redundant, found an interesting spot to start, and we've gone lesson by lesson since then.

 

I am planning to get R&S 5 to use next year. Of course, I don't have a good track record of staying with ANY grammar program, as I get bored easily. :tongue_smilie: But I am liking R&S 4, and the writing practice he's getting from it.

 

I hated R&S 2. I wanted to like it, but the feeling of "You're going to hell if you misuse an apostrophe" just wasn't what I was looking for. Yes, you might be killing a kitten, but you're not going to hell. :lol:

[Shellydon]

We tried several things after FLL and ended up liking Rod and Staff 5 the best. I hated Junior Analytical Grammar and didn't care for Growing with Grammar at all.

[Tess in the Burbs]

I too mourned ALL not being published :-(

 

We had tried R&S 2 before FLL 3 was out and it was a bust! Yay for FLL 3/4 coming out! But when it was over for us we looked at everything out there and tried R&S again. It's been fine. DS does it and has done well. Will use again next year. We laugh at some of the wording. We skip anything that just isn't needed like archaic words. He reads them it I don't stress if he forgets about those later on. So R&S has been a decent next step

[happycc]

Sheldon: Why did you guys hate Analytical grammar jr. I have two girls entering 6th grade. Just finishing up FLL4 and deciding and deciding and debating between Analytical grammar regular or jr. or Hake 5 or Hake 6.

 

Completely clueless. What does SWB recommend?

[TracyP]

Completely clueless. What does SWB recommend?

 

Rod and Staff 5 after FLL 4

[happycc]

Rod and Staff --I am saving for high school.

I don;t think my kids or I can handle 5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 grades of Rod and Staff.

 

I am trying to vary things a bit...

She must have had a suggestion for Hake choosers and Analytical grammar people.

Also was it Rod and Staff 5 after fll4 for 5th graders as well as all other grades...such as 6th graders finishing up fll4

[mamamindy]

I appreciate this post. We're just in FLL1 here, but I wasn't sure if we should go on to R&S 2 or FLL2 next. FLL has been nice for us after a break, but my daughter loves writing in a book, especially her R&S spelling book. I hadn't heard about R&S 2 being...so....um, disagreeable? I appreciate the reviews! We'll stick with what works here until upper grades. I totally agree with Sahamamama about my daughter being literal about making nice sentences to please God! Sheesh!

[Hedgehogs4]

We have found Analytical Grammar to be an excellent next step in grammar study. If you have done FLL through 4 you could go straight to the regular AG.

[happycc]

Thank you thank you Hedgehodge for answering my question. I have decided it will be AG after FLL4. Phew! Decision made.

[happycc]

Thank you thank you Hedgehodge for answering my question. I have decided it will be AG after FLL4. Phew! Decision made.