Has anyone learned Mandarin well enough to really use it and/or to pass SAT and AP tests?

[Tardis Girl]

I'm asking because I am trying to decide in the big picture if my 4,7,8yo should stick with learning Mandarin and I would love to hear from someone who is further down the path with this subject. My now-college-age kids learned Spanish in elem-middle school ages, then switched to ASL for high school and did very well with that. But Chinese? I love the idea of it, but it's a bit more daunting!

 

If your kids are fluent, do you have any recommendations (or warnings) for me as I'm testing the waters? My goal for them is not necessarily to pass those AP/SATs, but having gone through the college app process twice already, I am mindful of it even though my younger ones seem so young. I now know how fast the time goes! lol

 

We've been going to a Mandarin class 2x a month with a native speaker for the past 6 months, but little new ground is covered due to the spacing of classes. My kids know numbers up to really 10,000s, dates, body parts, some greetings, songs -- the can speak and understand all of that, but for writing they mostly just know the numbers and dates. However I'm at the point of needing to jump in with both feet (thinking Better Chinese, but confused at the options) or... IDK... maybe abandon it? We do know a few native Mandarin speakers -- acquaintances more than friends at this point -- they are happy to talk a bit with the girls, but I don't think a regular tutor will be in the budget for quite some time.

 

Thanks so much for any thoughts to share!

[Mabelen]

There is one girl in my oldest's Girl Scout troop who is a Senior now and that has been going to Saturday Chinese school since little. She is homeschooled although I think she goes to a charter some days of the week, I am not sure of the details. She is very gifted academically and a high achiever. I don't know if she is taking either the SAT or AP exams but I have asked my dd to find out for you. I know her mom knows some Chinese herself although I don't think she is fully fluent. I think she taught English as a foreign language in China when she was young.

 

Other than that, all the other kids I know who are taking the AP exam are heritage speakers who have been attending Saturday school all their lives.

 

Do you have a Saturday Chinese school in your area? If so, maybe you could have the tutor prep your kids so that they can join? It might be a cheaper long term option.

 

[HSDCY]

Studying Mandarin Chinese is not for the faint of heart, and this is especially true if parents are not native speakers. It can be done and I've heard of success stories, but it's very very difficult. I've known countless kids who have gone through weekend Chinese schools from k-8th only to give it up for easier languages once they are in high school. I am not saying this to put those kids down, but to show you how frustrating it is to learn the language well.

 

Currently my son is chugging through Better Chinese (with much pain), we are able to do so because I am a native speaker. I can not even begin to imagine how someone can possibly learn the material without the help of a teacher, tutor, or parent who speaks the language. And even with a native speaker as teacher/tutor, it requires motivation, dedication, and grit to learn the language well.

 

I am sorry this post is not too encouraging, but I just want to paint a real picture for you. If you think it's unlikely for you to be working with a tutor long term, Mandarin is not a good choice of language for your children. Hope this helps.

[lewelma]

We are not there yet, but thought you would be interested in a mostly positive story:

 

My ds(12) has been working with a tutor for 1.5 hours per week for 3 years. At this point he studies for 30 minutes an additional 4 times per week. He is academically gifted, but was tested with an auditory processing issue when he was 6, so perhaps these balance out. He currently knows how to read 600 characters, but can probably only write 150.He uses Boya Chinese, which is a university textbook (very long story as to how we settled on that). His accent is good, but he does struggle to converse even in the simplest way. The tutor works heavily on this aspect. I plan for him to work with a tutor for the next 6 years, and then take the mandarin as a second language exam out of china HSK From what I have heard, this would be a fairer test of second language skills than the AP because so many chinese-language-at-home Americans take the AP which skews the results. I do think he will have to live in china for at least a year to become fluent.

 

Ruth in NZ

[elegantlion]

I think you can check how many students in your state took the AP exam. I cannot remember where to find that information. I looked for Japanese and only 3 students in my state took the test in 2010(mid-west, not a very diverse area).

[Arcadia]

Me and hubby are native speakers. My neighbors who took AP Chinese and did very well came to the states before kindergarten and are native speakers too. I am not sure if they took SAT Chinese. What I understand from them is that AP Chinese is very easy for native speakers to do well.

However to reach high school level of Chinese, there is a time commitment involve regardless of whether the student is native or not. Be prepared to spend 3hrs per week with a tutor (either class or one-to-one) and another 30mins per day for revision.

I took the Cambridge exams for Chinese and class time was 1.5hrs twice a week in high school and homework is essay writing and Chinese comprehension exercises. We also had to write a daily Chinese journal for homework from K to 10th grade. Book reports (literature analysis style) are done as assignments.

AP Chinese in my area would be relatively common in the public high schools.

 

I can translate technical documents from English to Chinese and vice versa but my education (pre-K to university) is in SE Asia. My kids do Chinese and German.

[Tardis Girl]

This is very interesting, to say the least. I appreciate all the comments so far and you've given me much to consider. I worry about spending years "learning" the language and still feeling like they know very little. And then there is the "use it or lose it" factor -- I think that is true with any foreign language, but is it even worse with a language like this that does not share a common root with English?

 

In terms of the time commitment in high school that was mentioned, how different is that from, say, a student who is studying Spanish or French and wants to take those tests in high school. Do you think Mandarin is that much more intense? I'm not challenging the idea, just asking what you think. Or maybe it's easier to just "sneak by" with those other languages?

 

What about college? Do you think it would be more "impressive" to list out Mandarin instead of Spanish, for example? What value do you see in the big picture of the future in learning Mandarin (assuming there is no personal family connection, of course) over another? Do you think it is/will be a more desirable language than Spanish or others?

[lewelma]

There is not a lot of Spanish here or anywhere nearby. My ds chose to learn Mandarin at age 10 because he told me he wanted to work at the large hadron collider. When I told him he should learn French because CERN was in France, he informed me that by the time he is ready (meaning 20yo), China will have the newest particle accelerator. Yes, even at 10 he was planning ahead. And yes, he still plans on a career in physics. And yes, he is probably right.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Arcadia]

In terms of the time commitment in high school that was mentioned, how different is that from, say, a student who is studying Spanish or French and wants to take those tests in high school. Do you think Mandarin is that much more intense? I'm not challenging the idea, just asking what you think. Or maybe it's easier to just "sneak by" with those other languages?

 

To reach the level of being able to translate comfortably day to day (not to the level of court translator), my boys would have to put on equal amount of time in German and Chinese. I do not see them as needing less time for German.

 

Since I am from SE Asia, the languages offered are different from the states for the Cambridge 'A' levels (12th grade). The languages I can pick from are Chinese, Behasa Melayu (Malay), French, German, Japanese, Hindu. They all required the same amount of time commitment from 7th~12th grade. Chinese, Malay and Hindi are offered from pre-K to 12th grade.

 

We just spoke to a German guy today and he still remembers most of the Chinese he learnt in college.

 

ETA:

My kids wants to be astronauts since pre-school but I tease them about working for United Nations.

[lewelma]

To learn any language well, you are looking at a 10-year time commitment. So your child's personal preference should be paramount. But if you are just looking to tick the boxes for college, choose Spanish. It is useful in American and generally considered the easiest language to learn at a basic level.

[DaffodilDreams]

Yes. I spoke it daily when I worked in China. I had a private tutor here, but being immersed in the language over there really helped.

[Jen in NY]

A tiny data point for your consideration. Definitely *not* trying to influence your decision at all -- if my students were interested in Chinese at all I would go with it.

 

Percentile Scores for SATII Chinese -

800 = 64%ile

790 = 48%ile

780 = 37%ile.......................................

 

I have no idea how the colleges view these scores - they probably know the deal - that non-native speakers will have low percentiles in on this test, but wow! Those have got to be the toughest stats in the whole SATII program!

 

Of course, there are probably many reasons for this. Small pool of testers, mostly native speakers? That would be my guess.

[elegantlion]

As far as standing out on a college app, I wouldn't think so (someone correct me if I'm mistaken). Mandarin seems like the next popular thing, it seems so many are taking - even around our area I hear of it. I would think the presence of it on an app wouldn't matter over something like Spanish, but the ability to use it well would.

 

Does Chinese have something like an International test? I know Japanese does, which is something we're considering.

[Laura Corin]

We do and Calvin passed his Chinese GCSE (roughly SAT-II subject test level). We spent four years in China though and have followed up with weekly classes with a native speaker.

 

Laura

[Candid]

I think one key in your picture is the infrequency with which you move the ball forward with lessons. Foreign Language is in my opinion difficult to learn without daily use and challenge. It is the one place where I have reservations about even great online classes (that they only meet once a week).

 

I think I would also focus, given your children's ages, on learning to speak Chinese and not read it since the written part is so difficult.

[Tardis Girl]

Ugh. I don't know what to do!! lol But I really appreciate all the comments and experiences shared. I'm still not sure what we're going to do... but I will be thinking about all of this in my sleepless nights to come.... ;)

[PhotoGal]

Have you considered finding a tutor online (through Skype or similar)? It would be less expense. We are thinking of trying this next year (along with a weekend class and tutor that comes to our home).

[mom2bee]

I would look into getting a tutor or proficient speaker to record phrases for you. And work on building the kids speaking and listening skills as much as possible. I would work on listening skills by watching cartoons on Youtube and really getting into the speaking and listening aspect. Chinese songs and such. Don't worry too much about the reading part-- yet.

 

I always felt like an early elementary language program should focus on understanding and listening first and speaking. Its easier to learn to speak by learning phrases --- fully formed and grammatically correct sentences and phrases first, then using your vocabulary to customize the phrases as needed and then learning more and more complicated sentences until you can confidentally put together sentences on your own.

[Lanny]

My belief is that it takes many years of dedication to learn Chinese. It is extremely difficult to learn. If one is interested in doing that, I think the opportunities, for an adult, would be wide open. In the military, in business, etc.

[GoodGrief]

My 15 year old has been studying Mandarin for about 5 years. She has not taken any of the national tests yet, but she is working toward that. She recently placed first in a local Mandarin language declamation competition in three different categories, qualifying for the state competition.

 

Though she started with Rosetta Stone, I really do believe work with a tutor is the most effective way to become fluent, short of a true immersion experience. Classroom learning is okay for a highly motivated student, but it's easy to fly under the radar in a group setting and not pick up the skills, esp in speaking.

 

My daughter is currently in a "Mandarin 3" course at a local high school, however the coursework is certainly inferior to her work with the tutor. She's only doing it because our homeschool charter program requires any language other than Spanish or French to be done at an accredited school in order to be listed on the transcript.

[Leav97]

One other possibility is Concordia Language Villages.

 

www.concordialanguagevillages.org

[ALB]

Well, we've lived in China for almost 5 years, and are still far from fluent! My dc struggle through simple conversations beyond their name, age and other easy topics. My dd has had 2-3 hours/ week with a tutor for 4 years now. My ds just started 2 years ago. My plan is to keep on with the play based tutoring, which is all listening & speaking, for another 2 years. Then, we will transition into Pinyin and characters and they will have a tutor every day for an hour. Its just a hard language! I'm sure my perspective is skewed because of living here and having to converse in it daily, but imo, something like Spanish would be much quicker to master for native English speakers.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

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