Halcyon Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I need some ideas. My younger dislikes rote drill, dislikes but tolerates MM (we only do a few questions on each page) and ADORES Zaccaro, CWP and other problem solving books. He also catches on very quickly with algebra and other challenging topics. However, he has yet to master his mltiplcation tables, adn yesterday i realized he is still using his fingers to add and subtract. Any suggestions? We play math games, he plays sumdog and such, but anything that smells of drill is not enjoyed. I do, to a degree, try and "require"him to learn his facts, but seeing as he gets so much pleasure out of higher level math and begs to do it, i find it hard to force him to do his drillwork. I dont want to squelch this burgeoning love of math (before i introduced these texts, he was ambivalent about math). Ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 For my DD, the answer was last year's World Ed games. When she realized just how fast she was being passed on the leaderboard in Math because while she had great accuracy, she was much slower on the facts, she made it her mission to become a "human calculator" by this year. I assume she simply needed the outside goal/motivation to do something she considered boring. The funny thing is that I'd shied away from anything resembling the "Mad Minutes" I'd hated in school, so I'd avoided any form of explicit drill-and Mathletics live rounds/World Ed game rounds are exactly that-a Mad Minute, only on computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 my math-loving kid started with TimezAttacks (they have addition now also) in 1st grade but only did it occasionally. finally doing more Life of Fred convinced him he needed to work on his facts and he did more work on TimezAttacks (there is a free version, too). But i let him go with only minimal reviews until HE wanted to learn them better - he will learn them over time just by counting on his fingers repeatedly anyways. i'm all about following this kid's passion (my teen has no academic passion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillian Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 My dd is there too still trying to count for her basic math operations and dislikes rote drill. I think I might do the multiplication war with her though. She also understands solving for x and really wants to move on but she doesn't want to learn the math facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceyshoe Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Computer games are a great way to drill facts while having fun. I find that it's far more efficient than me playing a math game with them---they just get more practice done in a shorter amount of time. We replace our regular math curriculum with Khan Academy one day per week because it allows ds to explore higher level math topics yet still get a little more drill in too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I do, to a degree, try and "require"him to learn his facts, but seeing as he gets so much pleasure out of higher level math and begs to do it, i find it hard to force him to do his drillwork. I dont want to squelch this burgeoning love of math (before i introduced these texts, he was ambivalent about math). You don't have to stop doing higher level math just because drillwork is also needed. Treat them like different subjects -- let him work conceptually on one level and computationally on another. Cap drill-time at a certain number of minutes, but that time is JUST for drill. If he finishes early, he can do some extra conceptual math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 We do drill time for about 5-10 minutes per day when needed. We used to use xtramath and now they use Sail Through Math (McGraw-Hill) on the ipad for variety. There are other games that drill too so we switch around for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 You don't have to stop doing higher level math just because drillwork is also needed. Treat them like different subjects -- let him work conceptually on one level and computationally on another. Cap drill-time at a certain number of minutes, but that time is JUST for drill. If he finishes early, he can do some extra conceptual math. Exactly this! Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmama2 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 You don't have to stop doing higher level math just because drillwork is also needed. Treat them like different subjects -- let him work conceptually on one level and computationally on another. Cap drill-time at a certain number of minutes, but that time is JUST for drill. If he finishes early, he can do some extra conceptual math. Completely agree with this. Well said :) My 6.75 year old is similar. She doesn't like the live portion of mathletics but funnily enough she quite enjoyed the races on EPGY when we did that. These days we do a few minutes daily of an iPad app for drill. Sometimes Splash Math but most often Numbl. I've just downloaded the one mentioned above, I think she'll love that. Numbl is excellent for addition facts. It gives you what looks likes a calculator keypad (although you start with multiples of some numbers) and a target number at the top, you press numbers on the keypad to add up to the target. If you go over it beeps and you start again. They quickly learn to be creative and not just press 9 for 9 as each time you use a number successfully it disappears & the aim is to get rid of all your numbers as quickly as possible. So if you press 4,3,2 instead you are ahead. You can play two player or single. My DD has been enjoying beating her own times in the single player version lately. I don't hold her back conceptually because she isn't as fast to memorize. I think that use will help memorization and even now she is starting to see that memorizing a few things would be helpful to her in using maths the way she wants to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathnerd Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Try online math programs like DreamBox math which look like entertainment to them while they make the kids stronger in concepts by playing math games. Also, my son will not do Singapore Math sometimes (I admit to having bought all their workbooks, practice books, intensive practice etc and requiring him to do a lot of writing) and at those times, I volunteer to write down the answers for him while he dictates the answers. That works very well because mom always makes silly mistakes while writing down the answers and he gets to correct them frequently! We also do a lot of verbal math from the book "Verbal Math Lesson" which do not require pencil or paper. And we subscribe to the free email service "Bedtime math" which sends out daily email problems along with a fun trivia that will keep your child interested. All these help in reinforcing basic concepts. And you are doing the correct thing in keeping his love of math alive. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ailey Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 You don't have to stop doing higher level math just because drillwork is also needed. Treat them like different subjects -- let him work conceptually on one level and computationally on another. Cap drill-time at a certain number of minutes, but that time is JUST for drill. If he finishes early, he can do some extra conceptual math. I agree with this completely. I don't worry about trying to make math drills fun, just short and consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoshannon Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 My daughter is the same way. I just make her do Xtra math on the computer daily. She's not a huge fan but she takes so long on math problems simply because she doesn't have her facts memorized. We just keep moving through the math book. Thankfully we've been doing fractions and time the last few weeks so have had a break from the other stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 Thank you all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serendipitous journey Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 just adding my agreement with everybody who suggested that math drill be its own thing, 5-10 minutes/day. This will not destroy their love of math. I don't know what motivates your child -- who, from the list of things he's doing, is very different to Button! -- but the Wrap Ups were one of the most successful math reviews around here. Lately I've started having him do a daily Singapore Math Sprints, and some mental math from the HIG, and call it good. His facts aren't always at quick recall with this, but he remembers enough to do his higher math stuff; and in the next little while we'll re-introduce Calculadder. I like the program but Button got hung up on the physical writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 My older ds had no success with his math facts for *years*. He was still memorizing the subtraction tables when he was doing AoPS Intro Algebra independently. In the end, we decided together to just pound them out. Five minutes of drill 3 times per day 7 days per week. Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner. 2 months later he was finally done. He just needed more intensity rather than more years. Ruth in NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mukmuk Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Your son loves what my ds used to love (and still remembers very fondly). Perhaps he'd like this: http://www.amazon.com/Teach-Your-Child-Multiplication-Tables/dp/0741420813 It's grid patterns of the multiplication tables. In fact at the psych testing last year, ds' multiplication facts were better than his addition and subtraction facts :o. I also stumbled across this recently: http://www.patternplaymath.com/ This guy has a lot of YouTube videos that your son might like to watch. If we were doing it again, I'd definitely put this on the menu :D. Actually, I probably will when we have some time. It looks like fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 Actually, his times tables he knows quite well, likely due to Times Tales. Is there something similar for addition and subtraction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Reading this with great interest. Am I the only having trouble wrapping my brain around how you do the higher math with the drills? I seem to be stuck in a linear progression with math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Usually, this kind of a kid will be able to figure out the arithmetic they need, but slowly. For example, they may not have their times tables memorized, and need to figure them out through factoring or addition -- i.e. 7x9 = 7x3x3 = 21x3 = 63 or similar. I wouldn't advocate moving on with one who didn't conceptually understand multiplication. They will be able to solve algebra problems, but slowly due to having to spend more time on arithmetic. However, the background of higher level math gives an environment where these facts are necessary, and thus provides motivation and encouragement to improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Usually, this kind of a kid will be able to figure out the arithmetic they need, but slowly. For example, they may not have their times tables memorized, and need to figure them out through factoring or addition -- i.e. 7x9 = 7x3x3 = 21x3 = 63 or similar. I wouldn't advocate moving on with one who didn't conceptually understand multiplication. They will be able to solve algebra problems, but slowly due to having to spend more time on arithmetic. However, the background of higher level math gives an environment where these facts are necessary, and thus provides motivation and encouragement to improve. This, exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Actually, his times tables he knows quite well, likely due to Times Tales. Is there something similar for addition and subtraction? There is. It is called Addition the Fun Way. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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