SOCIAL GROUP: Atheists, agnostics, free-thinkers, non-believers

[Mom-ninja.]

 

my DS5 is still a little demanding sometimes. Not of my time, but in a what-the-hell-was-that-noise-I-need-to-check-on-that kind of way.

 

Funny, my 4 yr old is a why-the-hell-is-he-so-quiet-I-need-to-check-on-that kind of way. :willy_nilly:

 

 

 

Where does everyone stand on Karma....bad vibes coming back at you type of thing?

 

I'm reading a book that explains that humans perceive reality and truth in ways that benefit themselves and their own feelings/beliefs. I think karma fits into that. The same book also talks about how if you are nice to others they are more likely to be nice to you. This is also what I think karma is.

 

Basically, it's an interesting book that explains a lot about human psychology.

 

 

I badly sprained an ankle a while ago, then when going to get it checked this morning, fell on my tailbone. Darn winter! Darn ice! Darn my butt!

 

Did you break your tailbone? That's the worst. I did that in high school. I don't recommend it. Hope you're better soon.

 

 

My mother is off her meds, or so it seems. :(

 

 

I have a mother who turns into screaming uber mean person when she decides she can stop taking her meds. It's no fun.

 

Good to hear the MRI was normal.

[Guest inoubliable]

I can't remember what poster it was who said that they never wanted warm-wishes or good thoughts and wished that if people wouldn't pray (to her god, of course) they'd just not say anything or have anything to do with her unless they were doing something physical (bring food, etc.--which I certainly think is preferable to anything else, but given the inability to do that. . ?)

 

 

 

How very Christian of them. :glare:

[dbmamaz]

so just curious . . how do you deal w these moms who are screaming and mean when off meds? My 20 yo is like that at me and the boys a lot .. . right now she's at my moms and i kinda want nothing to do with her but i'm wondering if i need to get some help w my anger so I can go another round of trying to play the supportive, accepting mother . .. but i'm not so sure i even want to. and now my mom is all guilt-tripping me about how she feels so alone taking care of my daughter and my sister . . .well then why did you swoop in and 'rescue' her? she needed to hit rock bottom imo. of course my mom is playing cruise director to the little princess so she wont have any reason to be unhappy . . . awwww :glare:

[Guest inoubliable]

Anyone near Kenosha?

 

http://www.kenosha.org/dinosaurdiscovery/events.html

 

I wish we were! This looks very cool! The promotional materials are awesome. I'd love to get the Darwin/change on a tshirt.

[Mom-ninja.]

How do I handle my mom when she self weans? I don't put up with her outbursts. I tell her to take her meds cause I'm not putting up with her meltdowns. I also tell her that I will do everything necessary to protect my children from her outbursts and that includes not allowing her to see them. Then I call my dad and tell him he needs to grind up her pills and put them in her food.

 

Then I don't answer the phone for a few days until I get the clear from my dad. If I'm with her I leave. At once.

[Jennifer3141]

My Mom is a gentle-ish bi-polar who occassionally goes off her rocker. She was insane for the this past election. Because everyone will go to hell now that Obama won. And it's not because he's black! You just have to watch out for the black people more. :glare: And a lot of them don't go the right churches either. Double :glare: .

 

So as long as we avoid politics, which is really HARD to do - we are good. And she did have a hard time with this past election with the RR's obsession with rape babies. You want to vote Repug for financial reasons? Go for it. But that's kind of hard to do when all your party talks about is rape babies.

 

If she would turn off Fox "News," she would be ok. We don't have cable at my house so when she comes up here for a week or so, she starts to settle down. Funny how much easier that is to do when no one is endlessly screaming at you that the black people and/or Mexicans are ruining our country. When we visit, she swears they don't watch a lot of Fox but it will always be on all 4 TVs in their house. All day long. And then she wonders why she feels under attack. :laugh:

 

When Mom is nuts, we just don't answer the phone. She unfriended me on FB two Xmases ago because we were fighting. I just ignored it and went on with my life. My Dad gets hysterical when he doesn't get the attention he thinks he deserves too so when they are both cranked, it's a wild ride. My father has colon cancer - stage 3. It will eventually kill him. I wish he would live forever - in good health - but he's not going to. (I suspect I may not be immortal either. Rats. ) He's got 5-7 good years left probably. And he's 79. So when he cranks up AND gets Mom cranked up, we just ignore them. I've hung up many times saying, "I love you but we're not going to keep talking now. Call me when you calm down." That annoys the wits out of them but then a few weeks go by and they settle down. I did finally tell them that I love them but I don't "need" them. I'm 41. I've been parented. I'm ok without them. Now that they know that, they are more careful.

 

And the handful of times they have tried to pull my kids into the crazy has not gone well for them.

[Jennifer3141]

[/size]

 

 

How very Christian of them. :glare:

 

 

I'm pretty sure that poster is back with a new screename. She's even dumber now too! :leaving:

[Lady Florida.]

Also, if there's a "CC", I typically avoid it all together. They don't want my input in there.

 

I can't remember what poster it was who said that they never wanted warm-wishes or good thoughts and wished that if people wouldn't pray (to her god, of course) they'd just not say anything or have anything to do with her unless they were doing something physical (bring food, etc.--which I certainly think is preferable to anything else, but given the inability to do that. . ?)

 

I wish I could remember who that person was so I could block her, that way I'd be sure to never accidentally have a compassionate thought toward her or express such an unChristian sentiment toward her.

 

Come to think of it. . .I don't recall seeing that name very often recently. . . . I can't remember the name, but I haven't seen it lately, I do know that. Perhaps she changed her name.

 

 

I ignore CC threads too. Wasn't the purpose of putting CC on a subject to let people know, so that those who weren't interested in anything with Christian content could ignore it? I ignore those.

 

I also remember the thread you're talking about, but cannot recall who the poster is.

[Izzy]

When you see a prayer request.....what do you do? I feel like a hypocrite even opening those threads because I think prayer is a total waste of time since no one is listening. Do you send positive thoughts or just scroll on?

 

 

I used to do a :grouphug: but I honestly don't open up a lot of prayer threads and don't open any cc threads. I have a few FB groups with friends I have known a long time and I will always respond with well wishes, thoughts, fingers crossed, etc. Kwim? They usually aren't asking for prayers for their FB friend's cousin's best friend whose daughter is having a crisis. lol.

When you see a prayer request.....what do you do? I feel like a hypocrite even opening those threads because I think prayer is a total waste of time since no one is listening. Do you send positive thoughts or just scroll on?

 

 

Thank you so much for this. Keep in mind that I don't want to seem to mock or belittle people of faith, but I just don't understand these prayer requests, especially for strangers. Can someone please explain this to me, so that I can understand? The belief is that there is an omnipotent God, who could with no effort, say, heal an innocent child dying of cancer. The omnipotent God knows the child is dying, and chooses not to help her, but could have his mind changed if enough mortals pray for it to happen, as if he were running a cosmic polling service? I just don't get it. Now, I can understand the famous CS Lewis quote about prayer not to change God, but to change oneself. But that's just personal and doesn't require any public requests.

[Izzy]

My mother is off her meds, or so it seems. :(

 

I'm getting YELLED at again for ds's problems. His MRI comes back normal. I think its awesome. My mother, however, knows the "truth." The truth is that god is giving me signs to quit dealing in the natural world and get involved in the right church.

 

I thought the MRI just showed that everything grew perfectly and his cerebellar tonsils are no longer being squished. Obviously I'm wrong. I'm not sure I'll ever see this "truth" she insists to know.

 

When she's on her meds, she preaches a lot. When she stops her meds, she's not all there, doesn't listen, and yells at everyone.

 

 

Wonderful news about DS's MRI. I'm sorry about having to deal with your mom. What she's doing is just plain mean. Can you take a break from her?

[Izzy]

How do I handle my mom when she self weans? I don't put up with her outbursts. I tell her to take her meds cause I'm not putting up with her meltdowns. I also tell her that I will do everything necessary to protect my children from her outbursts and that includes not allowing her to see them. Then I call my dad and tell him he needs to grind up her pills and put them in her food.

 

Then I don't answer the phone for a few days until I get the clear from my dad. If I'm with her I leave. At once.

 

 

Exactly this with my mom. My poor dad.

[Izzy]

My Mom is a gentle-ish bi-polar who occassionally goes off her rocker. She was insane for the this past election. Because everyone will go to hell now that Obama won. And it's not because he's black! You just have to watch out for the black people more. :glare: And a lot of them don't go the right churches either. Double :glare: .

 

So as long as we avoid politics, which is really HARD to do - we are good. And she did have a hard time with this past election with the RR's obsession with rape babies. You want to vote Repug for financial reasons? Go for it. But that's kind of hard to do when all your party talks about is rape babies.

 

If she would turn off Fox "News," she would be ok. We don't have cable at my house so when she comes up here for a week or so, she starts to settle down. Funny how much easier that is to do when no one is endlessly screaming at you that the black people and/or Mexicans are ruining our country. When we visit, she swears they don't watch a lot of Fox but it will always be on all 4 TVs in their house. All day long. And then she wonders why she feels under attack. :laugh:

 

When Mom is nuts, we just don't answer the phone. She unfriended me on FB two Xmases ago because we were fighting. I just ignored it and went on with my life. My Dad gets hysterical when he doesn't get the attention he thinks he deserves too so when they are both cranked, it's a wild ride. My father has colon cancer - stage 3. It will eventually kill him. I wish he would live forever - in good health - but he's not going to. (I suspect I may not be immortal either. Rats. ) He's got 5-7 good years left probably. And he's 79. So when he cranks up AND gets Mom cranked up, we just ignore them. I've hung up many times saying, "I love you but we're not going to keep talking now. Call me when you calm down." That annoys the wits out of them but then a few weeks go by and they settle down. I did finally tell them that I love them but I don't "need" them. I'm 41. I've been parented. I'm ok without them. Now that they know that, they are more careful.

 

And the handful of times they have tried to pull my kids into the crazy has not gone well for them.

 

My mom had a "premonition" the first time she saw Obama. She said he was evil. She also suffers from depression but listens to christian radio all. day. long which gets her all worked up. She's always calling me about some latest development and how we are all going to suffer.

[Audrey]

 

 

 

Did you break your tailbone? That's the worst. I did that in high school. I don't recommend it. Hope you're better soon.

 

 

 

 

No. Thankfully, I did not. It is just bruised.

[LucyStoner]

When my dad is drinking or when my brother is off his meds, I set firm boundaries and I heavily screen my calls. I don't have any social-religious-politicaln stuff from them to deal with. My dad can get a bit worked up but it is not often and his opinions are somewhat close to mine. Certainly no Obama is the antichrist cr@p. Now that my mother is dead, I never speak to or hear of my fundie loonie not-grandmother. I always say there is a reason I live in Seattle and she and my nutty aunts are in Florida- I can't get much more distance barring leaving the country.

[LaxMom]

 

 

 

I agree that "sh!t happens" is a bit cavalier when we are talking about some situations. In those cases, I kind of feel like that sh!t is mostly the fault of the a-holes, though. We have devastating poverty and disease in this world, not because of the actions of the impoverished and diseased, but most often because of the actions (or inactions) of some very powerful a-holes. As human beings, we do have the capacity for changing that. What we lack is the collective power over the selective elite.

 

That's just my opinion here. And, maybe I shouldn't get too far into that, either. Board rules on "no politics" still apply, you know. ;)

 

No, I totally agree with you. The world is full of horrors because of what people put out into it, particularly when those people have power.

 

Just to be clear, I was saying my applying "sh!t happens" there was cavalier, not that your comment was. And my applying it there was with the thought that the people living in such devastation certainly didn't invite it, so their misfortune would fall into the category... But that seemed cavalier to me - as if I was shrugging off the suffering of others - so I mentioned it.

 

Sorry about your bum. That stinks. Especially with the ankle... Can't stand comfortably, can't sit comfortably. Blech.

[LaxMom]

My mother is off her meds, or so it seems. :(

 

I'm getting YELLED at again for ds's problems. His MRI comes back normal. I think its awesome. My mother, however, knows the "truth." The truth is that god is giving me signs to quit dealing in the natural world and get involved in the right church.

 

I thought the MRI just showed that everything grew perfectly and his cerebellar tonsils are no longer being squished. Obviously I'm wrong. I'm not sure I'll ever see this "truth" she insists to know.

 

When she's on her meds, she preaches a lot. When she stops her meds, she's not all there, doesn't listen, and yells at everyone.

 

Well, that sounds like GOOD news, to me! So where does this take you in his therapies now?

 

And boooooooooooooo, crazy relatives! There should be a spray, or a taser system or something.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

When she gets like this, we become very busy. Thankfully she texts, so i can keep it short while not completely ignoring her. It's been a looooong time, but i have to be careful because 8 years ago, i get a call from her that she's at Newark airport (in NJ, she's from GA!). She visited and was completely off! She ended up being admitted to a psych hospital that visit.

 

The MRI and all-clear from the neuromuscular dr means we just treat the physical stuff like we have been. He goes back to physical therapy, but instead of being discharged in a few weeks, his neuro wants him to take breaks- 6 on, 3 off, etc.

 

My father ordered him a pair of stiff hiking boots that should help prevent the toe walking. I'm going to put a bit of sandpaper or Velcro in the left knee of his pants to prevent him from dropping that leg while he plays (only an hour here and there).

 

Neuromuscular doesnt need a follow up, but made the recommendations to his primary neuro. She also wants me looking into martial arts, sports, and pool therapy.

[delaney]

Thank you so much for this. Keep in mind that I don't want to seem to mock or belittle people of faith, but I just don't understand these prayer requests, especially for strangers. Can someone please explain this to me, so that I can understand? The belief is that there is an omnipotent God, who could with no effort, say, heal an innocent child dying of cancer. The omnipotent God knows the child is dying, and chooses not to help her, but could have his mind changed if enough mortals pray for it to happen, as if he were running a cosmic polling service? I just don't get it. Now, I can understand the famous CS Lewis quote about prayer not to change God, but to change oneself. But that's just personal and doesn't require any public requests.

I will give you my theory on this. It is selfishly motivated by the human need to do something in a time of crisis. They WANT to feel needed and helpful so they pray. The worst part for me is that they truly believe that if a child is cured, as an example, that god intervened. REALLY?? So you pray better than the family 2 rooms down in the hospital? Had nothing to do with modern medicine?

I was almost part of a co-op that needed a place to do the classes. Their answer to finding a space was to pray. O_K_A_Y So picking up the phone and making calls and busting your butt is not the first answer? With all the trivial crap people pray for it would be a wonder if god didn't just let it all go to voice mail.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Why is it ok to raise children while pushing a faith, but it's not ok to raise them while making your non belief very well known?

 

I dont force my beliefs on my kids, but if i were religious, it would ok to do so!

 

I do teach religion to them right along with other mythology stories. I'm also trying to make sure we study it as it shaped history.

 

If you're an "angry atheist," is there a certain religion that bugs you more than others?

[Mom-ninja.]

Why is it ok to raise children while pushing a faith, but it's not ok to raise them while making your non belief very well known?

 

 

 

I actually just picked up a magazine (Psychology Today) from the library that has an article about athiest parent who don't share or "push" their views. It'll be interesting to read. After I'm done reading the article about affairs which is actually depressing me.

[Jennifer3141]

Thank you so much for this. Keep in mind that I don't want to seem to mock or belittle people of faith, but I just don't understand these prayer requests, especially for strangers. Can someone please explain this to me, so that I can understand? The belief is that there is an omnipotent God, who could with no effort, say, heal an innocent child dying of cancer. The omnipotent God knows the child is dying, and chooses not to help her, but could have his mind changed if enough mortals pray for it to happen, as if he were running a cosmic polling service? I just don't get it. Now, I can understand the famous CS Lewis quote about prayer not to change God, but to change oneself. But that's just personal and doesn't require any public requests.

 

 

 

I honestly don't get it either. Like god is floating around up there trying wanting us to do popularity polls on a homeschooling website. Seriously? You're god and that's what you do with your spare time?? Go watch Law and Order reruns like the rest of us... Or scrub my guest bathroom. I don't want to do it today.

 

It's about the attention. And about feeling like your life will get fixed because you're a good little soldier of god so of course it will all turn out ok! I think it's mostly about the attention though. And the same people keep posting equally stupid requests. Oh... you're pregnant again and you've got no job? Aw... You'd have thought child number FOUR would be a hint or something. Don't worry! God will take care of it. :glare:

 

What really cracks me up about these people are that they are the same exact ones fighting a social net. They want to put their lives in the hand of some invisible dude in the sky but if the government tries to take care of stupid poor people, that's EVIL. Except that if they're white, then it's ok to take welfare. (And I'm not saying all poor people are stupid!!!)

 

The logic is so darn weird. You would think the circular reasoning would stroke more people out. Must be god's protection. :laugh:

 

We've had bad times. Everyone has. But I've never felt the need to blurt it out on a public message board. That's what real friends and family are for. And the Xtians I know are a suffering lot. The non-religious I know say, "Meh. Bad day/week/year/whatever. It'll average out. Distract me with some fun!" I have some dramatic non-Xtian friends. But what I don't seem to find much of in the non-relgious crowd is a whole lot of angst. I think there are a LOT of Xtian angst addicts out there.

[Jennifer3141]

I actually just picked up a magazine (Psychology Today) from the library that has an article about athiest parent who don't share or "push" their views. It'll be interesting to read. After I'm done reading the article about affairs which is actually depressing me.

 

 

 

Why did the affairs article depress you? Are you ok? Want to talk about it?

 

Please do tell us if the magazine is worth picking up!

[chiguirre]

 

 

If she would turn off Fox "News," she would be ok. We don't have cable at my house so when she comes up here for a week or so, she starts to settle down. Funny how much easier that is to do when no one is endlessly screaming at you that the black people and/or Mexicans are ruining our country. When we visit, she swears they don't watch a lot of Fox but it will always be on all 4 TVs in their house. All day long. And then she wonders why she feels under attack. :laugh:

 

 

This is really true about starting to feel wigged out if you watch a lot of alarmist news. Over Christmas vacation I totally got sucked back into the whole Chavez melodrama. I wasn't even in Venezuela and I started to get paranoid. It was a very interesting experience. I tend to think that fil is a bit of a nut, but after that week I started to understand his nuttiness. Of course, it's almost impossible for a Venezuelan not to get sucked in because you have to follow the news to know what products will suddenly disappear from supermarkets next or where there have been a spate of express kidnappings or that it's best to avoid movie theaters because there have been a spate of mass hold-ups. If you blow off the news or even just the rumor mill, you might miss something essential, but it does start to affect your mental health. I can't imagine why someone would voluntarily live in that state of anxiety when it doesn't affect your day to day survival.

[Lady Florida.]

I often hear atheists/agnostics say they don't push their views on their kids, or they'd take them to church if they asked. I'll be the odd woman out and say just the opposite. I believe my job as a parent is to instill what I think are good values in my child. That means telling him what we believe or don't believe, and why we feel that way. It also means saying no to church, not that he'd ask. Once he gets older, and I think at his current age (15) he's "older", I would back off and let him make his decision. If he asked to go to church with a friend who invited him, I'd let him. I won't personally go out of my way to take him. Of course all this is moot in my case because he's a strong atheist anyway.

 

I just don't see anything wrong with pushing your beliefs on your non-adult child. As parents we make decisions that we believe are best for our children's development. Religious parents believe what's best is to teach about their god/religion. As an atheist I believe what's best is to teach mine about reality.

[Jennifer3141]

Why is it ok to raise children while pushing a faith, but it's not ok to raise them while making your non belief very well known?

 

I dont force my beliefs on my kids, but if i were religious, it would ok to do so!

 

I do teach religion to them right along with other mythology stories. I'm also trying to make sure we study it as it shaped history.

 

If you're an "angry atheist," is there a certain religion that bugs you more than others?

 

The crazy patriarchal ones bug me. The anti-gay ones bug me. I do not allow the JWs or Mormon freaks on my property. Thankfully after three years of living here, the police finally got that handled. You want to be a freak, be a freak on your own property. You want to teach your daughters that they have to wear a ball gown at the park, go for it. But keep your mouth shut when my kid is running naked all over her yard. Better yet, get out of my yard.

 

I was sure my very Catholic neighbor was going to shoot those JWs a couple of years ago. And I wouldn't have mourned them in the least. I just told them to go to heck every time they came. I was nice the first time (who knows who lived in this house before me?). I was nice three days later. I was not nice the next week or the time after that or the time after that. I called the cult's office and told them to stop sending people. They said we wouldn't see anyone again. Two days later, up the driveway the same little freak comes and I called the cops. Called the cops FOUR more times. And my neighbor threatened them with a shot gun - which I don't condone - but he swears to this day that the freak was trying to open his door. I don't think I would have shot him if he entered my home but I would have given my dog the attack command. You can't come in the house and you've been told by the police to get out of here multiple times...

 

We have an unbalanced JW church out there. Their numbers are declining and they are panicking. All church leaders know they have to have members willing to drink the Koolaid to financially function. One of their members is a very nice woman at a local library. She may be the sanest of the bunch. But the anti-holiday thing cracks me up. When the kids were little, she briefly ran the toddler program. And part of being a toddler is learning about the seasons, right? This wingnut didn't want to do ANY activities that referenced the changing seasons because it was too close to getting into holidays. Because a pumpkin is only about Halloween, you know... So instead, she essentially wanted to deny the changing of the seasons. I always wanted to ask her why she didn't wear shorts in January. Wasn't changing your clothes for the appropriate season an acknowledgment in and of itself? Why doesn't god just keep you warm if you're right?

 

We did kites the week of Halloween. Everyone dropped out and they let her go from the program. By Xmas, we had a new woman and we were making cardboard Yule trees. :)

[Jennifer3141]

This is really true about starting to feel wigged out if you watch a lot of alarmist news. Over Christmas vacation I totally got sucked back into the whole Chavez melodrama. I wasn't even in Venezuela and I started to get paranoid. It was a very interesting experience. I tend to think that fil is a bit of a nut, but after that week I started to understand his nuttiness. Of course, it's almost impossible for a Venezuelan not to get sucked in because you have to follow the news to know what products will suddenly disappear from supermarkets next or where there have been a spate of express kidnappings or that it's best to avoid movie theaters because there have been a spate of mass hold-ups. If you blow off the news or even just the rumor mill, you might miss something essential, but it does start to affect your mental health. I can't imagine why someone would voluntarily live in that state of anxiety when it doesn't affect your day to day survival.

 

And in Venezuela, that is totally true. You have to find good news sources who tell you the truth so you know what/how to prepare. But there hasn't been a bread shortage in the US because of our president's election within the lifetimes of anyone here. Stop acting like you live in Venezuela when you DON'T. Try learning about Venezuela so you find out what that is really like!!!

 

My Mom is old. She's never going to make the connection to the alarmist TV and a lack of being able to relax. But I do think the younger generations get it a bit better. We still have whackadoos but the longer we have bread, the crazier they look. And it's getting harder and harder to lie to people with the prevalence of social media.

 

There's a subset that is getting more and more entrenched in their craziness but everytime a Newtown happens, more and more people start asking more and more questions. And they aren't finding their answers in 1000 year old book. Even my Mom asked about the gun thing in a semi-logical fashion. She brought up drunk driving, which was a serious problem among teenagers when I was in middle school. What did we do? We wrote laws and cracked down on it and the numbers plunged. So Mom wanted to know why the gun proponents were so sure that wouldn't work for assault rifles. Good question!

[Jennifer3141]

 

Well I see what you are saying. When my kids ask me how I feel about stuff or what I believe I am honest with them. But there isn't much to talk about with regards to my non religious beliefs because it feels odd to talk about nothing. Because it really is nothing. Does that make sense?

 

 

Wendy, do you really believe in NOTHING? Are you having a hard time with knowledge verses belief or is it the idea that you have zero faith because you don't believe in a god?

[Jennifer3141]

But you don't believe in nothing, I don't think. You believe in science. Why do we always think that doesn't count?? I believe I'm made of the same stuff that made our stars. Don't you?

 

I've always though tAugust needed a holiday. Let's make a day in August NOTHING day! Eat whatever you want. it doens't count! Read supermarket tabloids, it won't kill you for one day a year! What else can we do?

[amo_mea_filiis.]

We do have an August holiday. My birthday! Lol.

[chiguirre]

I just don't see anything wrong with pushing your beliefs on your non-adult child. As parents we make decisions that we believe are best for our children's development. Religious parents believe what's best is to teach about their god/religion. As an atheist I believe what's best is to teach mine about reality.

 

I think some people really do have a "religion gene". They just need to believe in a "sky daddy" to feel safe. They're not necessarily irrational in other ways, but they don't want to feel they're on their own. Geezle has this tendency and I don't mind indulging it as long as he doesn't try to impose it on anyone else. I wouldn't let him even visit a hell and brimstone church because I don't want him to pick up on the idea that he has any idea about any one else's eternal destiny. But, I'll let him ask his god for favors and see how that works for him.

 

Trinqueta is an avowed atheist. It's easier for me to deal with her existential questions, but I do have to remind her that it's rude to call her brother stupid because he believes in a god. Either way, you've got a parenting challenge.

[delaney]

One night my parents were startled when local Mormons came to the door at 9:30 at night and did try to open the door! Bad move b/c my sister was living there at the time and they were soon faced a 45 magnum. Who in there right mind tries to open someone's front door at 9:30???

[Jennifer3141]

We do have an August holiday. My birthday! Lol.

 

 

Your birthday will be our NOTHING day!!

 

P.S. My mom's birthday is the 14th of August. Just an FYI... ;)

[Jennifer3141]

One night my parents were startled when local Mormons came to the door at 9:30 at night and did try to open the door! Bad move b/c my sister was living there at the time and they were soon faced a 45 magnum. Who in there right mind tries to open someone's front door at 9:30???

 

 

I have NO idea. And what I didn't get about that whole experience is who sends a teenager out to do stuff like this?? How little do you value your children that you would send them out into the world fully knowing that lots and lots of people feel defensive when you attack them in their homes with your religious garbage?? "Hey, you're 16 now. Hope you don't get shot but go tell everyone about sky daddy or else you'll rot in heck for all eternity."

 

Geez. Way to value your kids' lives.... :bored:

 

I would never allow my children to go door to door without me while selling GS cookies, let alone hawking some invisible crazy god delusion. I actually love my kids.

[chiguirre]

All the Mormon missionaries I've ever seen have been legal adults. I'm pretty sure they have to be 18 because they live on their own. Why they would try someone's door at night I have no idea and, frankly, I have no sympathy for them if they did get shot. They should at least have had the police called on them.

 

ETA: I'd wonder if they were even real Mormons. It's not that hard to dress up in a white shirt, tie and pants with a little name tag and I'm sure it makes people less likely to call the cops about two random young men walking around the neighborhood trying doors. They might just be clever burglars. Or Mormons missionaries who've taken to a life of crime! Now, that would make a heck of a musical: Book of Mormon meets Bonnie and Clyde!

[delaney]

All the Mormon missionaries I've ever seen have been legal adults. I'm pretty sure they have to be 18 because they live on their own. Why they would try someone's door at night I have no idea and, frankly, I have no sympathy for them if they did get shot. They should at least have had the police called on them.

 

ETA: I'd wonder if they were even real Mormons. It's not that hard to dress up in a white shirt, tie and pants with a little name tag and I'm sure it makes people less likely to call the cops about two random young men walking around the neighborhood trying doors. They might just be clever burglars. Or Mormons missionaries who've taken to a life of crime! Now, that would make a heck of a musical: Book of Mormon meets Bonnie and Clyde!

They were. My sister grilled them for that reason and they were able to name their old neighbors(who were mormon) and a few other people my sister knew. They politely handed the tracts, apologized for scaring them, and then went on their way. Nuts is right.

[Mekanamom]

Yes, Mormon missionaries are (usually) young adults or retired older adults. They WILL sometimes send out younger kids on a "mini-mission" along with the regular missionaries.

 

I served a "mini mission" as a 17yo kid...Spent a week living with and serving with a pair of (young; 21 years old) sister missionaries. I don't remember any self defense instruction, lol. They do truly believe that doing the lord's work will bring blessings... I think that makes them feel a bit safer than they actually are. And I don't know what kind of safety training (if any) the regular missionaries go through.

 

I can't imagine why they would ever try the door... Though I guess I have heard stories of missionaries entering homes of recently inactive members, uninvited. From experience I can absolutely say that they don't have very good social boundaries when dealing with ex-members.

[Jennifer3141]

All the Mormon missionaries I've ever seen have been legal adults. I'm pretty sure they have to be 18 because they live on their own. Why they would try someone's door at night I have no idea and, frankly, I have no sympathy for them if they did get shot. They should at least have had the police called on them.

 

ETA: I'd wonder if they were even real Mormons. It's not that hard to dress up in a white shirt, tie and pants with a little name tag and I'm sure it makes people less likely to call the cops about two random young men walking around the neighborhood trying doors. They might just be clever burglars. Or Mormons missionaries who've taken to a life of crime! Now, that would make a heck of a musical: Book of Mormon meets Bonnie and Clyde!

 

 

 

I'm shocked! Shocked that you could think that uniform could be duplicated! You mean that Walmart white shirt and the black bolero could be bought just anywhere?? :D

 

It depends upon when they graduate from high school up here. And a lot of the cultish people up here hoemschool so there are early graduations. Also, when you eliminate from history from anything older than 150 years and take out science altogther, you can graduate faster. There's a lot less to know. :smilielol5:

[LucyStoner]

 

 

If you're an "angry atheist," is there a certain religion that bugs you more than others?

 

 

Anyone whose religion is more about patriarchy and politics than faith.

 

And I wanna drop kick white people who go on "vision quests", give themselves a made up "Indian name" and start calling themselves shaman. Seriously? Most know NOTHING about what they are claiming. If you are going to co-opt a religion at least know more about it than what you saw in a movie.

[LucyStoner]

I had a little string of Mormon missionaries on my old block who were buying drugs from our friendly neighborhood drug dealers. I am not dumb, grew up in the city and I know what proselytizing looks like compared to drug buying. Long story short, they kept coming to my door. I let them have it. I told them that if I ever opened my door to see them on my stoop again, I would be figuring out whoever the hell it was they reported to on their mission and letting them know what they were up to so it would get back to mommy and daddy. And that as a mother myself living on the street they were making their buys on, I took issue with any druggie loitering and getting drugs on my street, mormon or not. They were gone and then sometime later, a couple three years or so, more came and at least 1 of them was buying drugs?! I think that for some young people being away from mom and dad for the first time is a time to rebel, religious mission or not. I trust that most Mormons aren't using their missions to do drugs, but this little sample from my neighborhood was seriously skewed to the drug buying end. We were less than 1/4 mile from a big LDS church.

[Jennifer3141]

Anyone whose religion is more about patriarchy and politics than faith.

 

And I wanna drop kick white people who go on "vision quests", give themselves a made up "Indian name" and start calling themselves shaman. Seriously? Most know NOTHING about what they are claiming. If you are going to co-opt a religion at least know more about it than what you saw in a movie.

 

Locally here, it's women's spirituality groups and sweat lodges. Oh holy mackeral. Exactly like you said!! Please don't see something "cool" in a movie and co-opt it because you want to be, "spiritual." Yeah. Pass the talking stick to me, please.

[LucyStoner]

Locally here, it's women's spirituality groups and sweat lodges. Oh holy mackeral. Exactly like you said!! Please don't see something "cool" in a movie and co-opt it because you want to be, "spiritual." Yeah. Pass the talking stick to me, please.

 

Yes! I just wanna shout a them that reading a Sheman Alexie collection of short stories does not make them an "Indian". Sherman is Spokane and Coeur D'Alene for one, and for two didn't they read the parts where he rightfully makes fun of people like them?

[Audrey]

Thank you so much for this. Keep in mind that I don't want to seem to mock or belittle people of faith, but I just don't understand these prayer requests, especially for strangers. Can someone please explain this to me, so that I can understand? The belief is that there is an omnipotent God, who could with no effort, say, heal an innocent child dying of cancer. The omnipotent God knows the child is dying, and chooses not to help her, but could have his mind changed if enough mortals pray for it to happen, as if he were running a cosmic polling service? I just don't get it. Now, I can understand the famous CS Lewis quote about prayer not to change God, but to change oneself. But that's just personal and doesn't require any public requests.

 

 

 

Well, I will tell you why I asked people here to pray for a friend of mine -- someone who is a stranger to them.

 

It is because my friend believes -- wholeheartedly -- in prayer. To know that others were praying for her was a mental (and spiritual?) comfort to her. I cannot pray to her christian god for her, so I asked others if they would. It was really all I could do for her with integrity and honesty.

 

Praying is important to so many cultures, and there are many reasons for it. People find succor in ideas, and the idea of a benevolent, omnipotent or otherwise involved deity is probably one of the strongest ideas across cultures.

 

Just because I don't believe in deities doesn't mean I don't believe in the mental health value of prayers to some people, even if there is no physical benefit from them.

[Audrey]

I ignore CC threads too. Wasn't the purpose of putting CC on a subject to let people know, so that those who weren't interested in anything with Christian content could ignore it? I ignore those.

 

I also remember the thread you're talking about, but cannot recall who the poster is.

 

I don't ignore all CC threads. There are a few members here who I care about who will occasionally post a CC thread. I will read those threads, even though I am quite unlikely to post in them. If the CC is related to something crappy happening to them, I might post in the thread to be supportive, but more likely, I will PM the person with my sympathies.

 

FWIW, I have no idea what thread you're talking about either, or the poster, but I have noticed the name change thing has brought out some ... umm ... interesting cases.

[Audrey]

I often hear atheists/agnostics say they don't push their views on their kids, or they'd take them to church if they asked. I'll be the odd woman out and say just the opposite. I believe my job as a parent is to instill what I think are good values in my child. That means telling him what we believe or don't believe, and why we feel that way. It also means saying no to church, not that he'd ask. Once he gets older, and I think at his current age (15) he's "older", I would back off and let him make his decision. If he asked to go to church with a friend who invited him, I'd let him. I won't personally go out of my way to take him. Of course all this is moot in my case because he's a strong atheist anyway.

 

I just don't see anything wrong with pushing your beliefs on your non-adult child. As parents we make decisions that we believe are best for our children's development. Religious parents believe what's best is to teach about their god/religion. As an atheist I believe what's best is to teach mine about reality.

 

Hmm... I'm trying to think if I push my views or not. I think maybe I do. I talk about what I believe (spiritually and politically -- which are actually intrinsically tied in that regard). I can go on a good Marxist rant at the drop of a hat. Push me, and I'll unload my whole Witchy arsenal, too. We talk a lot in our family about almost everything. You can't have honest discussion without being honest about your ethics which frame your argument. I don't have a religion, but I do have a carefully defined ethics system. Do I push that on my kid? You betcha.

 

As for his own spirituality, I think my son is thinking about it and questioning it and juuuuuuust starting to define it for himself. It's an interesting thing to watch. He asks good questions, hard questions. We talk. I don't ever lie to him about what I believe and neither does his father. Dh is not an atheist, though. He's not even a non-deist. He was raised Catholic, though, and I think that no matter how far he strays from the Church (and oh, boy-howdy, how far he has strayed!) he can't quite get to a point of totally setting aside the notion of .... Something Greater, even if he doesn't believe it is the Judeo-Christian god.

[LucyStoner]

What do you all think of stuff like "mindfullness classes". I am not even sure what that is. I was told it's not religious in nature, but includes readings from religious books. I find that a bit confusing.

 

 

I think whatever people want to do is fine so long as they aren't trying to make others do it and so long as it is not a racist convoluted co-opting of another culture.

 

I meditate. I am not a deist. I just find that clearing my head helps me stay sane-ish. I don't get dressed up to go do it with others, but to each their own.

[Audrey]

 

 

 

My younger son has made comments like "when I go to heaven" or "god blah blah". I assume he gets this from just hearing other people say stuff like that.

 

 

 

My son was telling me once that he almost felt he should pray to God (the xtian one) just in case there is a hell. He doesn't want to go there.

 

I told him, "don't worry. When I get there, I'll scope out the good seats and save you one." He was cool with that. :D

[Jennifer3141]

I took a meditation class once and it was really helpful. I don't find myself actively meditating per se that often but I have come to respect that I feel meditation-ish when I do my hot bath alone at night, when I really get into the groove of housekeeping, when I connect to Earth every once in awhile when I'm not moving too fast.

 

Once spring/summer comes and food goes into the gorund, I can go too fast and miss stuff. Kids are great to have around for that.

[LucyStoner]

I don't push my beliefs. I recognize that my sons will come to have their own beliefs. I don't get it when people freak out about their kids thinking differently than they do. I do teach values but those tend to be of the "don't be an asshole" variety. The best tool I have for teaching our beliefs isn't lecturing though, it is how we live. For example, we are pretty big on living simply and oriented towards helping others whenever we can. I don't wax on about simple living and anti-consumerism and philanthropy. But they see us not spending a lot and they see us choosing helping careers, making donations, volunteering, making do, using up, doing without. They see how we cook. They see that we choose to live in a smaller than average space etc. My son donates 1/4 of his weekly allowance to Doctor's Without Borders on his own doing. He got that from watching not being told that he had to give etc.

 

I spent a lot of time teaching my Atheist with Aspergers and no filter son to be tolerant of people having religious beliefs. He wasn't taught to not believe but he was definitively an atheist from the get go.

 

ETA: Dont' get me wrong. We do talk to them about what we think and believe but never with a "you must agree" tone unless it is a don't be an asshole issue. I have a father who will go on and on to us with political and sociology lectures. As such, I try to listen more than I talk when my son has questions about a social, religious or political issue. The first US History Book I had him read though was A Young People's History of the United States though. Once could say that is indoctrination I guess.

[Audrey]

Anyone whose religion is more about patriarchy and politics than faith.

 

And I wanna drop kick white people who go on "vision quests", give themselves a made up "Indian name" and start calling themselves shaman. Seriously? Most know NOTHING about what they are claiming. If you are going to co-opt a religion at least know more about it than what you saw in a movie.

 

 

 

Yeah, that chaps my a$$, too. I live very near a reserve, and I do some work there with my govt. job from time to time. I have a lot in common with the hr person there and am very honoured when they invite me to pow-wow, but I'm never going to pretend to be an "honorary" member of their tribe just because I went to pow-wow. It totally doesn't work like that even though there are a lot of white people who claim that kind of thing. I absolutely connect with a lot of the Aboriginals' Nature spirituality and practice, but that doesn't make me Aboriginal.