the school experience

[Homeschooling Again]

I part-time homeschool my ds because my dh wants him to have some regular school experience.

 

My question for the hive, what benefits would you say there are in sharing the cultural experience of attending school (in our case elementary school)? I can see it more in high school (homecoming, games, yearbook, prom, etc.), but not really in the lower grades.

 

Just curious.

[Cassy]

We're in the UK so I'm sure the cultural aspects of what we call primary school are a little different to your experiences. Here my poor little ones are missing out on: traditional playground games, little school friends, Easter bonnet competitions, school sports day, taking part in Harvest Festival celebrations and Christmas Nativity plays.

 

Why, what am I doing keeping them at home? I must go and enrol them in our local primary school immediately.

 

Just a moment though, there are also all those other traditional cultural experiences like waiting in line in the freezing cold and rain to go into your classroom, waiting in line again to go out at break time, and again at lunchtime. Sitting in silence while you eat your lunch. Arbitrary chastisement and punishment by inadequate teachers. Bullying by your classmates. Catching every cold, tummy bug and flu bug around. Etc, etc, etc.

 

I think I'll have to weigh the pros and cons for a while longer yet. Maybe for another three years or so :D.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

Don't forget the education, if they don't grasp a concept in the time given they begin to fall behind.

 

What about all those great homeschool experiences? To me these are more special then any I experienced in an actual school.

[whitestavern]

My mother asked me last night how I could deny my dd an 8th grade "graduation", so I guess there's that.

 

Honestly, I just can't come up with anything until the high school years. I'm struggling as to whether or not to send my dd to high school (never had plans to do so). The longer I continue on this journey, however, the more I'm wanting to try it. On the other hand, there are many benefits to be found in a b&m high school. I'm still weighing it all out...

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I never liked school until I got to college. In elementary school, I did enjoy a G&T class about maps and compasses. And playing on the playground at recess. Both of which can be easily done in a homeschool experience.

 

I went to a Christian high school, so we didn't have dances or stuff like that. We had "banquets", which I never attended because I thought the whole school was stupid. I went to one homecoming dance in college with my boyfriend to see if I'd been missing out on anything. It was so boring, we left early.

[snowbeltmom]

Here's the experience my dd would have missed out on had she not been enrolled in first grade:

 

Bringing home an assignment for a report in her Friday assignment folder. Working most of the weekend on the project to turn the report in that Monday - 3 weeks early.

 

Coming in the door sobbing uncontrollably the day the report was due. (Never before or since has she been in such an emotional state.) Unable to speak because dd was crying so hard, she handed me a note from her teacher. The note said that my dd never turned in her report, and my dd was insisting to the teacher that she had turned in the report. The teacher did not come right out and say it in the note, but the implication was that dd was not telling the truth. Dd had never missed a homework assignment (this was 1/2 way through the school year) and was completely devastated.

 

Only after the school year was over and I overheard my two youngest discussing what they hated about the public school did I realize the full extent of how the teacher treated my dd that day: The teacher called my dd a liar in front of the entire class and then made her go to the principals office where the principal lectured dd about always telling the truth.

 

The teacher did end of finding the report a few weeks later. My dd did not get an apology from the teacher, but the teacher gave her a sucker that day.

 

So my dd learned that despite the fact that a person is innocent until proven guilty in this country, that is not the case in the classroom. Teachers bully and humiliate students all the time, and the child has no protection or recourse.

[Rebecca VA]

I think it depends on the school. My daughter went to a small private day school last year, and she had an idyllic experience. Every parent and student in that school would speak highly about their wonderful years there. My daughter so wishes she had gone there from the very beginning. There were NO downsides, ever.

 

Some of the things she experienced in her private school were: Monday assemblies featuring the pledge of allegiance, a talk from the headmaster, recognition of birthday children, and recognition of achievements; lots of field trips to fun local places; getting on the bus and travelling to other private schools for sports events; the fact that parents were welcome on campus and not treated with suspicion; a caring, no-bullying atmosphere (and guidance counselors who dealt with offenders); a general feeling of trust pervading everything.

 

Students found time to achieve -- members of last year's eighth-grade class were admitted to AMAZING high schools and some won state and national recognition for a variety of achievements.

 

I would put my child into that school again in a heartbeat (except that she is now too old for it). I ended up sending her to a local boarding high school that the headmaster assured me was a continuation of the same type of environment, only for high schoolers.

 

Would I have put my daughter into the local public school? No way!

[MIch elle]

Band and chorus.

[snowbeltmom]

Wow, that's not good enough IMO.

I agree! Had I known at the time what transpired in the classroom and the principal's office, I would have demanded that both the principal and the teacher apologize to my dd in front of the entire class and explain that they were wrong to call my dd a liar.

[GinaPagnato]

My brother, who teaches ps, insists that a critical component of the school experience that my kids are missing is "group work." He believes that the give and take that comes with listening to other people's ideas, batting them around together, and arriving at a final product (paper, project, experiment, etc.) is incredibly important.

 

I, however, remember having no good "group work" experiences until I attended college. Prior to that, there was always that slacker kid who never did any work for the group, the bossy know-it-all who took over, and the endless gossip and goofing off. Now, mind you, I probably thought it was loads of fun, but it was most certainly NOT of any value in terms of my development as a student.

[Danestress]

How are things going for your son? Does he have friends? Activities he likes? Good teachers?

 

I think every school experience is different, and it is entirely predictable that on this board you will get and earful of comments about bullying, lack of rigor, etc. but the only experiences that matter to your son are the ones that he has.

[mytwomonkeys]

if your school offers music, art, P.E, etc - those might be a lot of fun! my children have always homeschooled, but starting in 6th grade i will have them take a class or two at the local school. next year, my daughter will be in drama/choir. several homeschoolers in our group have their children enrolled in this & seem to really love it (we went and saw their annie jr. production put on last week & it was really fun!). in 10th grade, my kids will be able to take college courses.

 

as for elementary, i might try it if my kids could take fun elective type courses:) if they didn't like it, we could pull them out. that's the beauty of homeschooling.

[Karen in CO]

Both of my girls have gone to ps homeschool enrichment programs. They've had both good and bad experiences. On the positive side, they enjoyed groups science classes that let them do projects and experiments with other kids their age, pe class where they learned great games that are only fun in large groups along with the rules to a lot of sports, and art classes taught by people with a passion for art. These were things they wouldn't have had an opportunity to learn at home.

[elegantlion]

My brother, who teaches ps, insists that a critical component of the school experience that my kids are missing is "group work." He believes that the give and take that comes with listening to other people's ideas, batting them around together, and arriving at a final product (paper, project, experiment, etc.) is incredibly important.

 

I, however, remember having no good "group work" experiences until I attended college. Prior to that, there was always that slacker kid who never did any work for the group, the bossy know-it-all who took over, and the endless gossip and goofing off. Now, mind you, I probably thought it was loads of fun, but it was most certainly NOT of any value in terms of my development as a student.

 

We do group work in our school. We have at least two subjects where ds and I are learning together. He's know this, he knows I know just as much as him. It's been great because sometimes I'm the one with the idea, sometimes it's him.

 

As for missing out? IDK, elementary school was a wash for me. Junior high was more fun, friendships, doing fun things, art class, plays, band. I actually enjoyed junior high more than elementary or high school. I also graduated in the 80s, things were different, the age groups were different.

 

I don't think every high school kid is going to relish the prom, football game experience though. I went to public school and none of that mattered to me.

[Elinor Everywhere]

I part-time homeschool my ds because my dh wants him to have some regular school experience.

 

My question for the hive, what benefits would you say there are in sharing the cultural experience of attending school (in our case elementary school)? I can see it more in high school (homecoming, games, yearbook, prom, etc.), but not really in the lower grades.

 

Just curious.

 

I agree with this statement. I homeschooled through 8th grade, fully intending to go all the way. But, my son is a full-time Freshman at our local ps, and my dd is a part-time Freshman there.

 

The kids are having completely different experiences, although it is not a surprise and they are true to their nature.

 

Boy:

Cons: doesn't like being around all the kids. Doesn't like how some of the kids are disrespectful towards authority. Doesn't belong to much and has made no friends.

Pro: it's easier than my homeschool.

 

Girl:

Pros: marching band. She's made a great group of friends. She's involved in band, chorus, and Speech & Debate. She learned to do some awesome choreography moves in choir. She went to the Homecoming dance. She has her first "boyfriend", which is a crush on a nice band boy.

Cons: Holidays when there is no band.

 

Obviously, they are having completely different experiences! The Honors/AP English teacher struck up a conversation with her in the media room one day, and is now mentoring her on choices of teachers and classes for next year. She is loving the while experience and wants to go full-time next year.

 

My opinion?

Pros: High school has lots to offer, especially extra-curriculars. Band, choir, S&D, ROTC...these are all worthwhile. Having passionate teachers and learning from someone besides me. Saving money on AP and other classes by doing them at school instead of online. Leadership opportunities.

Cons: Teachers who don't have my dc's best interests at heart. Stronger peer influence. Restricted schedule, less freedom and spontaneity. I miss them. :crying:

[TranquilMind]

I part-time homeschool my ds because my dh wants him to have some regular school experience.

 

My question for the hive, what benefits would you say there are in sharing the cultural experience of attending school (in our case elementary school)? I can see it more in high school (homecoming, games, yearbook, prom, etc.), but not really in the lower grades.

 

Just curious.

 

No benefits. I can't really think of anything at all that is important to recreate in the early years. Home is best, I am convinced.

 

I'm now convinced, due to some bad experience, that it might be best for the upper years as well.

[TranquilMind]

My brother, who teaches ps, insists that a critical component of the school experience that my kids are missing is "group work." He believes that the give and take that comes with listening to other people's ideas, batting them around together, and arriving at a final product (paper, project, experiment, etc.) is incredibly important.

 

I, however, remember having no good "group work" experiences until I attended college. Prior to that, there was always that slacker kid who never did any work for the group, the bossy know-it-all who took over, and the endless gossip and goofing off. Now, mind you, I probably thought it was loads of fun, but it was most certainly NOT of any value in terms of my development as a student.

 

 

No kidding! Your brother is mistaken. Group work is much more easily executed by kids who are not peer-dependent, by the way.

 

My daughter ended up carrying the group in every single class in early high school. Now, in an upper level gifted high school, at least others actually want to do their work, a pleasant surprise for all of them.

 

I agree that this has virtually no developmental value in high school. Perhaps in college, depending on the issue.

[stripe]

sharing the cultural experience of attending school (in our case elementary school)?

Maybe circle time, first day of school, story time, group songs, class pet (I mean the animal, not the kid), making friends, show & tell, having your name on a little piece of paper on your desk, standing in line, snack time, nap time...

 

I was just reading this older piece by David Brooks called Amy Chua is a Wimp, and I think there are things in here that we all should remember when homeschooling.

 

 

Researchers at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Carnegie Mellon have found that groups have a high collective intelligence when members of a group are good at reading each others’ emotions — when they take turns speaking, when the inputs from each member are managed fluidly, when they detect each others’ inclinations and strengths.

 

Participating in a well-functioning group is really hard. It requires the ability to trust people outside your kinship circle, read intonations and moods, understand how the psychological pieces each person brings to the room can and cannot fit together.

 

This skill set is not taught formally, but it is imparted through arduous experiences. These are exactly the kinds of difficult experiences Chua shelters her children from by making them rush home to hit the homework table.

 

Chua would do better to see the classroom as a cognitive break from the truly arduous tests of childhood. Where do they learn how to manage people? Where do they learn to construct and manipulate metaphors? Where do they learn to perceive details of a scene the way a hunter reads a landscape? Where do they learn how to detect their own shortcomings? Where do they learn how to put themselves in others’ minds and anticipate others’ reactions?

 

These and a million other skills are imparted by the informal maturity process and are not developed if formal learning monopolizes a child’s time.

 

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

My kids do "group work" in their theatre classes.

[Homeschooling Again]

How are things going for your son? Does he have friends? Activities he likes? Good teachers?

 

I think every school experience is different, and it is entirely predictable that on this board you will get and earful of comments about bullying, lack of rigor, etc. but the only experiences that matter to your son are the ones that he has.

 

He's got friends at school and loves recess and gym. He plays sports through the park district. I don't really think that the school experience -- particularly in elementary school is all that compelling a reason to keep him there. I'm kinda having a fit over the grades he received first quarter and in particular the way that his teacher grades. I'm not thrilled with anything he's learning there and know that he's getting a better education with me at home. It's my husband I have to convince. I'm just wondering if anyone else has had conversations with people about the advantages of the school experience.

[2_girls_mommy]

We're in the UK so I'm sure the cultural aspects of what we call primary school are a little different to your experiences. Here my poor little ones are missing out on: traditional playground games, little school friends, Easter bonnet competitions, school sports day, taking part in Harvest Festival celebrations and Christmas Nativity plays.

.

 

I just wanted to say that I have always homeschooled and found ways to do ALL of these things. My kids are active in a couple of different communities that fully cover all of these. It can be done! We do girl scouts and VBS and some day camps in the summer where they play all kinds of traditional playground games. We also belong to a co-op once a week during much of the school year. We do the games there too. We don't have Easter Bonnet competitions anywhere here, so I am not worried about that one :) We attend a HUGE homeschool olympics once a year which is much bigger and better than the once a year track day my elem. school had. We have Thanksgiving celebrations with girl scouts and church. And my children participate in a Christmas Nativity Pageant every year at church. The kids my children go to these groups with each year (co-op, church, scouts, etc.) are generally the same kids most years so they have a community they are growing up with. We also arrange field trips and playdates and book clubs with kids from these groups and have bday parties and such. So mine have a great social experience but with kids that we all know and are friendly with the whole family.

[MedicMom]

Absolutely nothing.

 

I was homeschooled from kindergarten until graduation. The only thing I have found that I missed out on is knowing how to use a combination lock, since obviously I didn't have a locker and no need to use a combination lock until a few months ago. My homeschooled sisters were all invited to proms with friends. I never went but probably wouldn't have gone even if I was enrolled in a high school.

 

DH was homeschooled from third grade through graduation. The only thing that he would have missed out on from being homeschooled from the beginning was an overwhelmed second grade teacher who convinced him that reading wasn't a boys thing and instilled a hatred for academia that persists to this day. He wholly supports education, but has no use for books or traditional academics. The sad thing is that his mother reports he was an avid reader who loved school until his second grade year, and that if his parents had realized what was going on in the very small, Christian school he was attending, they would have pulled him out much earlier.

[Joshin]

In my experience you can do as many of those "PS cultural things" as a homeschooler as you want. For example:

 

Group work: Odyssey of the mind team, astronomy club, scouts

 

Peer-on-peer learning: Astronomy outreach. DS does plenty of outreach helping educate people of all ages, and he learns a lot from those he helps teach as well. The bonus? His peers in this setting aren't age peers, but intellectual and interest-focused peers.

 

Elementary games (like heads up 7-up): Scouts, play groups, youth groups

 

Songs, special events, etc: Can be incorporated into homeschool day plus a major component in many homeschool groups.

 

Music/band/sports: Depending on your state rules, you can participate in the PS version or you can take part on community teams, symphonies, theaters, etc.

 

Yearbook: I don't really get the draw of this one personally, but I'm sure you could do a homeschool scrapbook each year, including pics of other kids in clubs and classes your kid participates in.

 

School dances: Well, a child can get an invite from PS friends of course, you can go to community youth dances or events, or you can host a homeschool event.

 

Homecoming: Not a big deal around here, but in smaller towns everyone went to the game even if they didn't go to the school. No reason a group of homeschooled kids couldn't go then have their own party afterwards.

 

It really depends on what is important to you. For my kids, the group work thing is really important to them so after searching high and low for a "science team" at DS7's request, I finally decided to coach our own Odyssey team. We have a great group of kids age 7-12 and I see the benefits first hand. I have stepped up and organized things many times when we felt a gap. It's more work for me, but it's worth it for our goals. I understand not everyone can do this, which is why homeschooling is just one option and there are many ways to homeschool. For me, we did PS 2 years and I was a PS teaching assistant for several years, so I knew first hand what we were giving up and that most of it just wasn't important, IMHO.

[Farrar]

My kids look confused when asked to line up.

 

Really, most of the positive things being mentioned (as is also being mentioned) you can recreate and do it better. We do Destination Imagination - group work done right. Our co-op does an adorable little yearbook at the end of the year. Oh, and group work there too sometimes, I guess. My kids have been in two homeschool productions of Shakespeare plays. They experience outside teachers a good bit. We play PE type games and take soccer.

 

More seriously, the one thing I have noted that we miss out on is being more tied to our local community and neighborhood. There aren't many other homeschoolers near us and we travel to see friends. Not even terribly far, but outside most of our neighbor's range. And so we're not as connected to the sentiments of the neighborhood. But the tradeoff is clearly worth it.

 

ETA: Oh, and when they get to high school age, there are more resources at certain schools - lab equipment and expertise that I don't have. Still not going to sway me that this isn't better though.

[TranquilMind]

MedicMom.

 

I was homeschooled from kindergarten until graduation. The only thing I have found that I missed out on is knowing how to use a combination lock, since obviously I didn't have a locker and no need to use a combination lock until a few months ago.

 

Heh heh. You mean your siblings didn't steal your lunch money? Oh wait....Mom didn't charge you for lunch.

 

 

The sad thing is that his mother reports he was an avid reader who loved school until his second grade year, and that if his parents had realized what was going on in the very small, Christian school he was attending, they would have pulled him out much earlier.

 

That's sad. I hate it when "school", as typically done, destroys love of learning.

[Chris in VA]

There's the culture of the school, which is public, and the hidden culture, which is between the kids and only known by them.

I believe this happens in every group experience, and the more time the group is together, the more developed the hidden culture becomes.

Ds and I were recently discussing this, WRT his drug treatment programs, which were residential. He talked about the subculture/hidden culture, and he said not to think it only happens in treatment; it certainly happens in other arenas, particularly, for him, youth group at church and school.

Very eye-opening.

 

I can't say what your kiddo is missing, only that the destructive nature of the hidden culture is cause for consideration.

[Tarreymere]

 

The only thing that he would have missed out on from being homeschooled from the beginning was an overwhelmed second grade teacher who convinced him that reading wasn't a boys thing and instilled a hatred for academia that persists to this day.

 

I wonder how common that is. The director of RE at our church is a public high school teacher, and when we were talking one day I asked her about some book recommendations for dd age 9. She told me point blank "Kids don't like to read" and refused to recommend any books to me. I'm afraid the conversation went downhill right away, as I was only able to mumble inarticulate syllables from that point on as I tried to pick my jaw up off the floor. I can't help but wonder how and what she teaches.

 

Oh, as for missing cultural experiences, around here I'm told the whole 'riding the school bus' thing is quite the experience. Just not in a good way.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Rainefox