What do you all think of Francis Chan, author of Crazy Love (christian)

[Halcyon]

I am about halfway through and have mixed feelings about it .Before I voice anything specific, I would love to hear what others who have read this think. :bigear:

[texasmama]

It has been a couple of years since I read Crazy Love, so my memory is a bit vague on the specifics. That said, I recall it as being mostly inspirational. I found the chapter on the lengths people went to in order to pursue being missionaries to be particularly inspiring. I don't recall anything troublesome from the book, but I am pretty good at eating the meat and spitting out the bones. I live in the gray. :lol:

 

You have me curious.

[Singingmom]

I like him, and have only heard good things about him. He was the featured speaker at Hume Lake Christian Camp one year when I was in charge of a group of teen girls. He was the best youth speaker I'd ever heard, before or since.

[forty-two]

Not a fan :glare:. From the title, I thought it was about God's crazy love for us, and I had warm feelings toward it and Chan. Imagine my surprise when instead it's all about how we need to have crazy love for God, or else we aren't doing this Christian thing right. And if we aren't doing the Christian thing right, then we very well might not actually be *real* Christians at all :glare:. Because apparently the key to being a Christian isn't Christ's works, but *our* works. Christ does it all - but the only way to be sure that Christ actually did it all in *us* is if we are properly sold out for God. Look to your works, men, look to your works :glare:.

 

Yeah, the works-based theology is horrifyingly rampant. "Jesus + Nothing = Everything", by Tullian Tchividjian, is way better - in fact, it actually *is* the Gospel-centered, focused-on-the-radical-love-and-grace-of-God book that I thought Crazy Love was going to be.

[JessReplanted]

He's amazing.

[Halcyon]

Not a fan :glare:. From the title, I thought it was about God's crazy love for us, and I had warm feelings toward it and Chan. Imagine my surprise when instead it's all about how we need to have crazy love for God, or else we aren't doing this Christian thing right. And if we aren't doing the Christian thing right, then we very well might not actually be *real* Christians at all :glare:. Because apparently the key to being a Christian isn't Christ's works, but *our* works. Christ does it all - but the only way to be sure that Christ actually did it all in *us* is if we are properly sold out for God. Look to your works, men, look to your works :glare:.

 

Yeah, the works-based theology is horrifyingly rampant. "Jesus + Nothing = Everything", by Tullian Tchividjian, is way better - in fact, it actually *is* the Gospel-centered, focused-on-the-radical-love-and-grace-of-God book that I thought Crazy Love was going to be.

i am going to look at that book.

[mytwomonkeys]

i really liked the book. it's one i've actually read a few times. i don't think i need to drive a scooter like francis chan, but it certainly made me realize i could make more sacrifices. my family could do more, give more, and be more. my husband and i really felt challenged by the book. we weren't aiming to replicate the pages, just apply them to our lives with god's help. i love the author's passion & he certainly practices what he preaches. i love that.

[sassenach]

I think the original title for Crazy Love was something like Message to the Lukewarm Church, which gives a better idea of the focus of the book. Crazy Love is along the same lines as Radical, which both call out people for talking to talk, but not walking the walk. I never got the sense that it was a works based theology, just that a lot of American Christians are living out a very convenient Christianity.

 

I think it's a great book for a specific group of Christians, but not something I recommend to everyone.

[74Heaven]

I loved the book and Francis Chan's message. To not "settle" for what the world tells us is "acceptable".

He encourages that our Walk matches our Talk & The Word also. I did not find the works-orientation at all. I am reading Radical by David Platt now - and also, I don't sense a works-based theology. But rather, a gut-check about who exactly God is. OTOH, there is talk in both about a lost world with millions of needy people - so yes, we need to be aware that the world is bigger than our limited views and needs and wants. (Something I need to hear.) So far, I prefer Chan's book. Chan's Crazy Love was studied/read on a mission trip by my then 16yo daughter and it really impacted her life and faith in a "wow" kind of way. She begged me to read it and we all did.

 

My favorite author is currently Chip Ingram and the book is "God - As He Longs for You to See Him". Talk about a tell-all book about God's Amazing Love - this is it. He has several books and I have enjoyed 3 or 4 books and Bible studies. This book is about the most life-changing book I have read in quite a few years - been a Christian for over 25 years.

 

Lisaj, mom to 5

 

 

Lisa J

 

Lisaj

[forty-two]

I think the original title for Crazy Love was something like Message to the Lukewarm Church, which gives a better idea of the focus of the book. Crazy Love is along the same lines as Radical, which both call out people for talking to talk, but not walking the walk. I never got the sense that it was a works based theology, just that a lot of American Christians are living out a very convenient Christianity.

 

Just went through chapter five, and the problem is that it's all law, law, law, with barely a hint of Gospel. Yes, Chan is pointing out real problems, and he is right that convenient Christianity is full of wrongness and sinfulness. But the only answer Chan gives is that true Christians need to do more and try harder to be who God wants them to be, and if they aren't willing, well....

 

He gives a whole chapter on the marks of a lukewarm Christian, tells us to soberly examine ourselves. I did - I was convicted - as was Chan's intention, I believe. He then tells us that lukewarm Christian is an oxymoron, that there is no such thing as a non-fruit-bearing Christ-follower. This is scary stuff: what should I do if I worry I am one of them?

 

Well, Chan says that true believers do indeed stumble, but what marks them from the unsaved - "those who do a few Christian-y things" - is "a posture of obedience and surrender, where a person perpetually moves toward Christâ€. How can I be sure I am the latter, not the former?

 

The only answer Chan offers is to do more and try harder. The truly righteous do *this* - and his whole book is one big incentive for those of us who consider ourselves true Christian believers to start doing those righteous things because we *should*. He is motivating us by the Law. He is demolishing an easy, self-centered legalism - but building a harder, more God-centered legalism in its place.

 

Yet it is still legalism. And the Law can only kill - it can only show us where we have slipped up, never if we have done enough. Because we can *never* do enough for God - we can *never* be perfect. The Law shows us what to do - but it doesn't give us the power to actually *do* it. It's the *Gospel* that has the power to change us, to make us more like Christ.

 

It is the Good News that, despite our crappy lukewarmness, our half-hearted attempts to sorta-kinda follow Him, Christ's death on the cross was for *those* sins, too. The Good News that, though we *can't* ever do enough to be a "true believer", we *don't have to* - we are true believers because of what *Christ* has done. *Only* because of what Christ has done. There is no "minimum standard" for being an acceptable Christian - there is only one standard: perfection. And *none* of us meet it. *Ever*. Which is why we rely on *Christ* having already met the standard on our behalf. And so the Gospel-centered response to being confronted with evidence of our sins, our lukewarmness, is to cry out, "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner!" And we can be sure He will :). The Gospel is for Christians, too.

 

But unfortunately, though Chan pays lip service to the Gospel, not once has Chan actually *given* the Gospel to his readers :glare:. He uses the Law as both carrot and stick, he tries to inspire us through contemplating God's majesty and power and love - but he never once gives us the Gospel, the greatest example of God's love for us, and the *only* thing with the power to change lives. God may save us through the Gospel, but if we are worried that we aren't true believers, Chan assures us that so long as we have the proper attitude - that we are sincerely trying - we are on track. Otherwise, well, Chan never really addresses what to do if you think you aren't trying enough - except to exhort you to try harder.

 

What is that but works-based theology?

[JessReplanted]

I'm sorry that you are feeling that way. I did not walk away from the book with the feeling of 'do more', but rather with the conviction to press deeper into Jesus. I felt that Chan made it clear that everything we do, think, say, flows out of our relationship with Christ. IMO, he is not talking about a works based theology at all.

[jenncslp]

I love Francis Chan, but I have purposefully not read "Crazy Love". From what I've heard from others (especially if you struggle with getting in a "works based" mindset), it can feel very condemning. I encourage you to see out some of his other writings, or better yet, sermons (look up the short "Balance beam message" and "rope message" on youtube).

[forty-two]

I'm sorry that you are feeling that way. I did not walk away from the book with the feeling of 'do more', but rather with the conviction to press deeper into Jesus. I felt that Chan made it clear that everything we do, think, say, flows out of our relationship with Christ. IMO, he is not talking about a works based theology at all.

Yes, but *how* do we press deeper into Jesus? If our actions - byproducts of our relationship with Christ - aren't up to snuff, what do we do?

 

The only answers I saw in the book emphasized what *I* need to do - *I* need to press deeper, or *I* need to do more. His very assurance of salvation - are we Christians who sin, or unbelievers who are fooled? - is focused on *our* response to Christ. We can know if we are Christians if we have "a posture of obedience and surrender, where a person perpetually moves toward Christâ€.

 

Well, what if I'm *not* moving toward Christ? What then? Chan says I'm an unbeliever. Ok, fine.

 

But then he doesn't even offer the Gospel message?! The one thing even Chan agrees is the only way to be saved! After making people evaluate if they are acting sufficiently Christ-like, and telling them that they probably aren't saved if they aren't, he does *nothing* to help them! Just goes on with his, "Are you *really* sold out for Christ - then *prove* it" thesis.

 

What other way to prove it than by doing works? He never gives an alternative. If you don't already have Jesus, you have *zero* chance to find him in this book. Which is especially frustrating as he works so hard to narrow the "real Christian" club :glare:. He *expects* many of his readers to not be real Christians - yet he never gives them the chance to *become* real Christians. Except by doing works, to show they really *are* true Christians after all :(.

[forty-two]

I'm sorry that you are feeling that way. I did not walk away from the book with the feeling of 'do more', but rather with the conviction to press deeper into Jesus. I felt that Chan made it clear that everything we do, think, say, flows out of our relationship with Christ. IMO, he is not talking about a works based theology at all.

Taking another stab at this (since I'm not sure my previous try would make sense to another who didn't already get what I was trying to say).

 

My main issue with Chan is that he seems to treat the Gospel as only for getting saved - a just-for-unbelievers sort of thing. We are *saved* by grace, and *forgiven* by grace, but that's the extent of it. Grace is for covering our sins - but it doesn't have anything to do with doing good. Our power to do good comes from something other than the power of the Gospel - Chan seems to suggest considering the magnitude of God's majesty and love, as well as starkly considering the magnitude of what God asks of us, as good ways to deepen our relationship with God, and thus our power to do good. But the Gospel comes in nowhere, because it's job, from Chan's apparent perspective, is done already.

 

But that is *totally wrong*.

 

We aren't just *saved* by the Gospel, we *live* by the Gospel. God doesn't just create faith by grace alone, but He *maintains* our faith by grace alone, too. Grace that is *actively* given through the Gospel: "the gospel, which has come to you, as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and increasing—as it also does among you, since the day you heard it and understood the grace of God in truth". The Gospel - the good news that Christ has done *everything* required - is the *only* means by which we are connected to Christ. And God doesn't just give us our only shot of grace at our conversion, fill up our grace tank - rather, He gives us His grace over and over, every time we hear the Gospel - a continual, life-giving stream :).

 

And so by leaving the Gospel out of his exhortation to do good works, Chan might not be promoting salvation by works, but he *is* promoting sanctification by works. Because once the Gospel - what Jesus has done for us - is taken away, there is nothing left *but* works.

[mytwomonkeys]

interesting how people read the same book and walk away with different perspectives:). i like francis chan. i love watching him on youtube. i love hearing his passion. i really liked the book crazy love (but then again i liked "the shack", so what do i know, lol). i believe very much in god's saving grace. i also liked the book though and didn't read it as and/or at all. what i personally took away from that book was that i was too materialistic. although we do tithe and we do give to others, for *me* i realized we could do more. we should do more. having a closet FULL of stuff that i didn't use was wasteful. it helped me to pray and purge a bunch of stuff that was not used by my family & could be a huge blessing for someone else. it still challenges me to give beyond what's comfortable all of the time. so for me, it was a good thing. i like him.

[PeacefulChaos]

I liked Crazy Love, which is the only thing I've ever read by him.

What he says fits into what I think about so-called comfortable Christianity. I thoroughly enjoyed the book and felt that it challenged me and helped me understand more.

[PeacefulChaos]

i really liked the book. it's one i've actually read a few times. i don't think i need to drive a scooter like francis chan, but it certainly made me realize i could make more sacrifices. my family could do more, give more, and be more. my husband and i really felt challenged by the book. we weren't aiming to replicate the pages, just apply them to our lives with god's help. i love the author's passion & he certainly practices what he preaches. i love that.

 

interesting how people read the same book and walk away with different perspectives:). i like francis chan. i love watching him on youtube. i love hearing his passion. i really liked the book crazy love (but then again i liked "the shack", so what do i know, lol). i believe very much in god's saving grace. i also liked the book though and didn't read it as and/or at all. what i personally took away from that book was that i was too materialistic. although we do tithe and we do give to others, for *me* i realized we could do more. we should do more. having a closet FULL of stuff that i didn't use was wasteful. it helped me to pray and purge a bunch of stuff that was not used by my family & could be a huge blessing for someone else. it still challenges me to give beyond what's comfortable all of the time. so for me, it was a good thing. i like him.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I also think that I was sort of predisposed to like it because his stance on giving more is very much the way I've always felt. That has always been me. I've never understood the idea that Christians have a right to earthly wealth or possessions just because they are Christians - and I've always felt that such things are unnecessary and worthless in the long run. I've never understood why the teachings of Dave Ramsey (for example) are so incredibly popular, because they sacrifice things that are important for what? Becoming wealthy? Saving money? For what?

I know I'm sort of on the fringe with my beliefs on such things, and I don't think people are bad or wrong if they disagree with me on them - that is just me.

Anyway, I kind of think the reason chan resonates with me so well is because of my feelings on these things already.

[mama2cntrykids]

Just went through chapter five, and the problem is that it's all law, law, law, with barely a hint of Gospel. Yes, Chan is pointing out real problems, and he is right that convenient Christianity is full of wrongness and sinfulness. But the only answer Chan gives is that true Christians need to do more and try harder to be who God wants them to be, and if they aren't willing, well....

 

He gives a whole chapter on the marks of a lukewarm Christian, tells us to soberly examine ourselves. I did - I was convicted - as was Chan's intention, I believe. He then tells us that lukewarm Christian is an oxymoron, that there is no such thing as a non-fruit-bearing Christ-follower. This is scary stuff: what should I do if I worry I am one of them?

 

Well, Chan says that true believers do indeed stumble, but what marks them from the unsaved - "those who do a few Christian-y things" - is "a posture of obedience and surrender, where a person perpetually moves toward Christâ€. How can I be sure I am the latter, not the former?

 

The only answer Chan offers is to do more and try harder. The truly righteous do *this* - and his whole book is one big incentive for those of us who consider ourselves true Christian believers to start doing those righteous things because we *should*. He is motivating us by the Law. He is demolishing an easy, self-centered legalism - but building a harder, more God-centered legalism in its place.

 

Yet it is still legalism. And the Law can only kill - it can only show us where we have slipped up, never if we have done enough. Because we can *never* do enough for God - we can *never* be perfect. The Law shows us what to do - but it doesn't give us the power to actually *do* it. It's the *Gospel* that has the power to change us, to make us more like Christ.

 

It is the Good News that, despite our crappy lukewarmness, our half-hearted attempts to sorta-kinda follow Him, Christ's death on the cross was for *those* sins, too. The Good News that, though we *can't* ever do enough to be a "true believer", we *don't have to* - we are true believers because of what *Christ* has done. *Only* because of what Christ has done. There is no "minimum standard" for being an acceptable Christian - there is only one standard: perfection. And *none* of us meet it. *Ever*. Which is why we rely on *Christ* having already met the standard on our behalf. And so the Gospel-centered response to being confronted with evidence of our sins, our lukewarmness, is to cry out, "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner!" And we can be sure He will :). The Gospel is for Christians, too.

 

But unfortunately, though Chan pays lip service to the Gospel, not once has Chan actually *given* the Gospel to his readers :glare:. He uses the Law as both carrot and stick, he tries to inspire us through contemplating God's majesty and power and love - but he never once gives us the Gospel, the greatest example of God's love for us, and the *only* thing with the power to change lives. God may save us through the Gospel, but if we are worried that we aren't true believers, Chan assures us that so long as we have the proper attitude - that we are sincerely trying - we are on track. Otherwise, well, Chan never really addresses what to do if you think you aren't trying enough - except to exhort you to try harder.

 

What is that but works-based theology?

 

I think there's a lot of truth to what you're saying here.

[JadeOrchidSong]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I also think that I was sort of predisposed to like it because his stance on giving more is very much the way I've always felt. That has always been me. I've never understood the idea that Christians have a right to earthly wealth or possessions just because they are Christians - and I've always felt that such things are unnecessary and worthless in the long run. I've never understood why the teachings of Dave Ramsey (for example) are so incredibly popular, because they sacrifice things that are important for what? Becoming wealthy? Saving money? For what?

I know I'm sort of on the fringe with my beliefs on such things, and I don't think people are bad or wrong if they disagree with me on them - that is just me.

Anyway, I kind of think the reason chan resonates with me so well is because of my feelings on these things already.

I resonate with this, too. I am going to read this book.

[the4Rs]

Just went through chapter five

 

 

How about you come back and tear it to pieces after you've actually finished all 10 chapters...not just 5. Bothers me when people give opinions on a book they haven't actually read..... ALL the way through.

 

Sigh.

 

 

I like Francis Chan. If you read his other books or watched his other studies (videos) you find that Chan is not like that at all. He is about real authentic relationship with Christ, our Savior, and the byproduct of that authentic relationship is a life lived for Him not for ourselves.

[JessReplanted]

Taking another stab at this (since I'm not sure my previous try would make sense to another who didn't already get what I was trying to say).

 

My main issue with Chan is that he seems to treat the Gospel as only for getting saved - a just-for-unbelievers sort of thing. We are *saved* by grace, and *forgiven* by grace, but that's the extent of it. Grace is for covering our sins - but it doesn't have anything to do with doing good. Our power to do good comes from something other than the power of the Gospel - Chan seems to suggest considering the magnitude of God's majesty and love, as well as starkly considering the magnitude of what God asks of us, as good ways to deepen our relationship with God, and thus our power to do good. But the Gospel comes in nowhere, because it's job, from Chan's apparent perspective, is done already.

 

I don't believe that this is his belief at all.

 

But that is *totally wrong*.

 

We aren't just *saved* by the Gospel, we *live* by the Gospel. God doesn't just create faith by grace alone, but He *maintains* our faith by grace alone, too. Grace that is *actively* given through the Gospel: "the gospel, which has come to you, as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and increasing—as it also does among you, since the day you heard it and understood the grace of God in truth". The Gospel - the good news that Christ has done *everything* required - is the *only* means by which we are connected to Christ. And God doesn't just give us our only shot of grace at our conversion, fill up our grace tank - rather, He gives us His grace over and over, every time we hear the Gospel - a continual, life-giving stream :).

 

And so by leaving the Gospel out of his exhortation to do good works, Chan might not be promoting salvation by works, but he *is* promoting sanctification by works. Because once the Gospel - what Jesus has done for us - is taken away, there is nothing left *but* works.

 

The whole point of the book is that the gospel brings about change. We don't just receive grace to receive it - we should be transformed, and our lives should give evidence of the grace we have received.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I can tell that you feel very strongly about this.

 

Before I ever read the book, I was very familiar with Frances Chan (through sermons). IMO, it's very easy to see that everything he does ('works') is out of a deep, loving relationship with God. I don't think that he ever intended for this one book to stand alone as a basis for Christian theology. Have you tried youtubing him and watching a few of his sermons?

 

Context matters too - we just recently escaped from a church that was filled with people who wanted to call themselves "Christians", but who had absolutely no intention of actually following Jesus. Reading Crazy Love was so refreshing to me, because it was someone saying that being a Christian means that you are actually following Jesus. Your relationship with Christ should impact your life - it should make a difference!

Do we follow Him perfectly? Absolutely not, but we follow.

[SproutMamaK]

Are you asking for our opinions about the book itself, or about him as a person? I find the question "what do you think of this person" a little disconcerting, to be honest, but I don't think that's quite what you meant. I guess you just want to know if we think he's a positive or negative influence as a public figure?

 

As a speaker/publis figure/author, he's not always on point with my beliefs theologically, but I find his passion for Christ inspiring and refreshing. If I only allow myself to be inspired by or like those people who are always correct on all issues, Christ would be my only inpsiration. In some cases I suppose that's a good thing - but I think having people right there in front of us that we can learn from is valuable as well. I feel free to disagree with many authors and speakers on a whole lot of points, but I don't think you need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. JMHO. :)

Edited November 6, 2012 by SproutMamaK

[forty-two]

How about you come back and tear it to pieces after you've actually finished all 10 chapters...not just 5. Bothers me when people give opinions on a book they haven't actually read..... ALL the way through.

 

Sigh.

 

I was refreshing my memory, in case I'd forgotten nuances.

[forty-two]

The whole point of the book is that the gospel brings about change. We don't just receive grace to receive it - we should be transformed, and our lives should give evidence of the grace we have received.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I can tell that you feel very strongly about this.

 

Before I ever read the book, I was very familiar with Frances Chan (through sermons). IMO, it's very easy to see that everything he does ('works') is out of a deep, loving relationship with God. I don't think that he ever intended for this one book to stand alone as a basis for Christian theology. Have you tried youtubing him and watching a few of his sermons?

 

Context matters too - we just recently escaped from a church that was filled with people who wanted to call themselves "Christians", but who had absolutely no intention of actually following Jesus. Reading Crazy Love was so refreshing to me, because it was someone saying that being a Christian means that you are actually following Jesus. Your relationship with Christ should impact your life - it should make a difference!

Do we follow Him perfectly? Absolutely not, but we follow.

 

Yeah, it is entirely possible I feel *too* strongly about it to discuss it :shifty. In any case, here's a more measured review that hits the same points I was trying to make: http://www.lcmsyam.org/Index.asp?PageID=11629&BlogFunction=ViewBlog&BloggerID=1020&BlogID=1178

 

Chan's book, though rightly diagnosing the problem, wrongly seeks the solution to the lukewarm sinner in the lukewarm sinner, where there is no hope. This creates only pride or despair. Spending a whole book entitled Crazy Love hardly mentioning the love of Christ for sinners is just, well, crazy! Instead, let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith!

 

I have been reading more stuff by/about him today, and I have no doubt he's very sincere and passionate. He's just, imo, also buying into the common evangelical paradigm of "Gospel is for getting saved, not for growing in the Christian life" - everything I found by him re: the Gospel was about converting unbelievers, period. For Chan, we all need to hear the Gospel - but because some of us who think we are saved aren't, not because the saved need the Gospel, too. But if you have something of Chan's that says otherwise, I'd love to be proven wrong :).

 

Eta: But in any case, whatever he thinks about the role of the Gospel, Chan wrote a book on living as a Christian with barely a mention of it. And that is just wrong - the Gospel is the center of our Christian life, and for a pastor to neglect it in *anything* he preaches, let alone an entire book, is simply inexcusable.

Edited November 6, 2012 by forty-two

[JadeOrchidSong]

Thanks for recommending Francis Chan YouTube videos. I am enjoying The Purpose of Your Life right now. It is so comforting and encouraging. I have heard his name a few times and I am very glad to finally watch his vedios. He is a very engaging and genuine speaker with great soothing voice.

[Anne in CA]

I really see both sides of this "debate". Yes, I see how FC can seem to be pursuing works, and yet I also believe that he has a deep relationship with Christ himself. I do not believe that Christians are "entitled" to wealth myself. I have always thought of Dave Ramsey as teaching stewardship, he always speaks of tithing and giving, but I can see that amassing wealth is not something Christ teaches. It is not unscriptural though, Abraham, David, Solomon, Job, possessed great wealth. There have been some good things to think about in this thread.

[Dinsfamily]

i really liked the book. it's one i've actually read a few times. i don't think i need to drive a scooter like francis chan, but it certainly made me realize i could make more sacrifices. my family could do more, give more, and be more. my husband and i really felt challenged by the book. we weren't aiming to replicate the pages, just apply them to our lives with god's help. i love the author's passion & he certainly practices what he preaches. i love that.

 

:iagree: I didn't get work-based faith or sanctification out of it. It was more about where our crazy love for the Father should lead us. I love his radical ideas since we (I read it both with a women's group and Dh) live in a community where it is easy to live a comfortable life and be set in our ways.

 

With the women's group, we watched the videos that go with the book. Seeing Chan talk about his ideas really gave me a feel for his heart behind the book.

[raceNzanesmom]

I love this book, and his others. I admit it is hard to digest through some of it, but I think you have to read deep into it. His message is to always dig deeper, grow closer, never stop striving to be more like Him. We'll never do enough or be enough, but our heart should be to try. Watching the videos along with the book helps to see Chan's heart.

[Quiver0f10]

Not a fan :glare:. From the title, I thought it was about God's crazy love for us, and I had warm feelings toward it and Chan. Imagine my surprise when instead it's all about how we need to have crazy love for God, or else we aren't doing this Christian thing right. And if we aren't doing the Christian thing right, then we very well might not actually be *real* Christians at all :glare:. Because apparently the key to being a Christian isn't Christ's works, but *our* works. Christ does it all - but the only way to be sure that Christ actually did it all in *us* is if we are properly sold out for God. Look to your works, men, look to your works :glare:.

 

Yeah, the works-based theology is horrifyingly rampant. "Jesus + Nothing = Everything", by Tullian Tchividjian, is way better - in fact, it actually *is* the Gospel-centered, focused-on-the-radical-love-and-grace-of-God book that I thought Crazy Love was going to be.

 

I just read this and loved it! I am reading Transforming Grace by Jerry Bridges right now and it's very good too!

 

As ar as Francis Chan, I haven't read Crazy Love yet but I read his Forgotten God and really enjoyed it.

[JadeOrchidSong]

I read Crazy Love last week. I agree with Francis that we Christians should strive to imitate Jesus. I especially love it when people come to faith because they see Christ in believers. On the other hand, I don't feel guilty if I sit in the theater enjoying a show or a concert. It is all about striking the balance. People"s journeys to faith and maturity vary and cannot fit in one neat cookie cutter. Some grow more quickly than others. We shouldn't stay lukewarm, but we also should avoid being angry and bitter towards others.

[SorrelZG]

I haven't made it far into the book. I am most familiar with Chan through his sermons. Honestly, I find him a better speaker than a writer. :)

 

As someone who has to regularly talk the Gospel to myself due to a weakness toward a works based mindset, I can see how someone could get the impression of legalism even where it is not intended and really, it may be a genuine shortcoming in the way Chan (or anyone else) is communicating and I would love to hear or read a response from him to these criticisms. I would expect him to humbly do so if asked.

 

I haven't read Crazy Love to be able to confirm or deny the the absence of the Gospel in it but Francis Chan's ministry as far as I have witnessed it has been about how unfathomably great God's love as expressed by the Gospel is. If we find ourselves responding in a way unworthy of such love (continual daily struggle for our hearts due to remaining sin) then at the cross is exactly where we need to be and I haven't yet witnessed Chan point anywhere else.

[Halcyon]

 

 

I just read this and loved it! I am reading Transforming Grace by Jerry Bridges right now and it's very good too!

 

As ar as Francis Chan, I haven't read Crazy Love yet but I read his Forgotten God and really enjoyed it.

 

 

I am reading that book right now too! how funny. Let me know what you think!

[happyhomemaker25]

Honestly the book made perfect sense to DH and I. We'd just finished reading a biography on George Mueller and looking for ways to apply that type of faith to our lives.

[Quiver0f10]

I am reading that book right now too! how funny. Let me know what you think!

 

I am not sure which book you meant, and I really enjoyed both, but Forgotten God really spoke to me. I feel it was a huge help to me overcoming some issues in my faith. I highly recommend it!

[texasmama]

 

I just read this and loved it! I am reading Transforming Grace by Jerry Bridges right now and it's very good too!

Transforming Grace rewrote my Christian faith entirely. I read it when I was in my mid to late twenties, after spending a lifetime in the church. While reading this book, I understood for the very first time the meaning of grace. It is a must read for anyone struggling with legalism or feelings of not measuring up.

[Halcyon]

 

Transforming Grace rewrote my Christian faith entirely. I read it when I was in my mid to late twenties, after spending a lifetime in the church. While reading this book, I understood for the very first time the meaning of grace. It is a must read for anyone struggling with legalism or feelings of not measuring up.

 

 

Thank you. I will be reading more tonight in light of your enthusiastic review. I have been reading a lot about grace lately. it's a big thing in my faith picture right now, and i cant get enough of it.

[texasmama]

Thank you. I will be reading more tonight in light of your enthusiastic review. I have been reading a lot about grace lately. it's a big thing in my faith picture right now, and i cant get enough of it.

 

Buckle up and get ready for a ride. :) That book cured the legalism that I had no idea I still had. I recommend that book and Captivating often.

[hillfarm]

I am not a Francis Chan fan. I strongly disliked Crazy Love.

 

I, too, found his exhortations rather legalistic and formulaic. Be crazy! Do insane things for God!

 

What? My Bible says my God is a God of order. It says in all things moderation. My favorite Scripture verses are 2 Thessalonians Ch. 4: 11-12

" Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business, and to work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent upon anybody." I agree that we need to be willing to stop doing "church" as usual when God calls us to do other things, but I don't feel that we need to go off the wall and do crazy things in the name of Christ in order to work our way to Heaven.

 

To put it another way, I like the twist on an old saying, "Don't just do something, stand there and wait for My direction." The opposite of what I got from Francis Chan.

[SorrelZG]

Interestingly, I vaguely recall Chan using Paul as an example of "crazy love" though I don't recall if it was from that book or from a sermon. Paul certainly wasn't "working for Heaven" and he managed to live a life completely sold out to Christ (telling the Christians, by the Spirit, to follow his example as he followed Christ's) AND - in the same spirit - write that verse to the Thessalonians. Go figure. :)

[Quiver0f10]

Thank you. I will be reading more tonight in light of your enthusiastic review. I have been reading a lot about grace lately. it's a big thing in my faith picture right now, and i cant get enough of it.

 

This is where I was(am) too and Transforming Grace has been a huge help to me. I have to keep preaching the Gospel to myself over and over.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Honestly the book made perfect sense to DH and I. We'd just finished reading a biography on George Mueller and looking for ways to apply that type of faith to our lives.

George Mueller has a great impact on my faith journey. It was fantastic to read how he trusted God with everything big or small and saw God at work.

I am not sure which book you meant, and I really enjoyed both, but Forgotten God really spoke to me. I feel it was a huge help to me overcoming some issues in my faith. I highly recommend it!

I am reading Forgotten God now.

I would like to read Transformed by Grace, too. It is wonderful to read inspiring books that help us grow closer to God.