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Nitty-gritty CM resource?


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I have the Charlotte Mason Companion by Andreola but I'd really like to have something that is more practical, how-tos, what to do at this time, what to do about this...type of information.

 

Our library doesn't have these books and (slap my forehead) I gave my Levison Charlotte Mason books away a year ago. This is exactly why I don't use Teaching the Trivium but on my shelf it sits!

 

Also what is your favorite CM forum? There seems to be many...

 

Thank you!

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They have all of the CM original series available for reading, plus summaries, plus the series re-written in modern English (for those of us who get a little...erm...sidetracked by all that Victorian-speak, LOL). They also have a list of topics and where they are found in the series, so if you're looking for how-to information on say, Nature Study, you can search and it will bring up all the nature study entries in CM's original series. They also have yahoo list support.

 

http://www.amblesideonline.com

:)

Melissa

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Ambleside Online has a lot of CM information at their site -- Their site index lists everything (articles, topics of discussion, etc.)

http://www.amblesideonline.org

 

There is a list of all the yahoo groups related to Ambleside at the site too.

 

Other websites that I like in addition to the Penny Gardner site are

 

http://www.simplycharlottemason.com which has a new message board

http://www.livingbookscurriculum.com

 

And CM related yahoo groups aside from Ambleside ones that I find helpful are:

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cmason/ -General CM

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/artiststudyCM/ - Art Study

 

And here is a reading/discussion group-

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CMSeries/

 

 

Two books that I have and like as well are:

 

Real Learning by Elizabeth Foss - Even though I am not Catholic, this is one of my all time favorite homeschool books. A Catholic CM message board (all are welcome) http://4real.thenetsmith.com

 

and

 

When Children Love to Learn

 

If you want more details on either of the books, let me know.

 

Hope that helps.

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Jessica,

AO has a couple of forums. One is a general AO forum, several are for specific years, there are forums with copywork and tests, and there also have some general chatter forums. I have a couple of good CM sites, but the best info really comes from reading the series (AO has it online) and from seing how different groups have implemented (like AO, Mater Ambilis, and the people at Living Books Curriculum). Here are some links.

 

Mater Amabilis

Living Books

MacBeths Opinion

Ambleside Online

 

Forums

AmblesideOnline main forum

AO Copywork

AO Year 1

AO Year 1 books

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Thank you all for your links and helps, I'm sure it'll help more than just me! I think the hardest thing with CM is seeing the various ways it is implemented. I've read CM Companion numerous times and it is one of my treasured homeschooling helps. I've read Ambleside many times too. I'm really interested right now in K-4, the journey from beginning to read to writing.

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I really use ao and simply charlotte mason a lot in my planning. They both have a lot of great articles and information on resources. ao is a real treasure of information, do some digging and you will discover a lot of great stuff. The yahoo groups have some great in-depth discussions. I stronly recommend that you read the cm series. Start with book 6. Understanding the philosphy really helps with implementing the methods.

 

Here are some interesting websites:

http://home.att.net/~bandcparker/cmlinks.html

http://www.homeschoolfavourites.com.au/index.html

http://higherupandfurtherin.blogspot.com/

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/HarmonyArtMom/

http://handbookofnaturestudy.blogspot.com/

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have your read the 6 volume originals? They really are what to look at--if the older english bothers you--there is an updated language version link off the ambleside. There is also a group that reads them thoruhg together. I really did not care for levison, but a lot of people do. Simply CM is another website a lot of people like. There is a book called real learning, a catholic mom's approach--she also has a blog, forums by the same name. I enjoyed that one as well as andreola's. Materamabilis is full of great ideas, too. I think reading the books themselves is better than the forum :) . There are the yahoo groups for AO, MA--AO also has a bunch for specific years, copywork, art etc. You know, based on all your posts you may like a LCCish (sub your Frensc) basics approach, with a CM everything else approach. Yes, I know I'm not being a philosophical purist here...Historically, I think she was a reaction to the overscheduled, pushy classical schools at the time--ifyou look at AO, MA upper years there is some pretty hefty intellectualwork going on--it is not light CM in the early years, pure Classical later, IMO. More of slow and steady with respect to development of child. Where do you want to end up? Now, which is the best route?

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I found my A Charlotte Mason Education by Levison copy. I have More Charlotte Mason, The Charlotte Mason Study Guide and a few volumes of the Original coming from the library, YAY! I want to get Real Learning too, I have to check if it's at the library.

 

I just want more of a natural learning environment, I want to stop pushing my children to learn things they might not be ready for just because (just an example!) WTM says to do xyz in year #.

 

What has been bothering me about our path (using WTM):

I don't understand why we're learning spelling at this stage when it seems having a better grasp on phonics would be more beneficial. I don't understand why there is ANY focus whatsoever on anything but gaining reading fluency and getting better at handwriting through copywork.

 

I spent most of first grade (our first year of hsling) pushing my dd through subjects, feeling confident because I was following what someone else said was important to do. I don't have the confidence anymore that I was doing "right" by my dd. I don't think we should have started Spelling Workout at all, we should have focused on reading more and memorized phonics rules instead of FLL grammar terms. If we had done that, we could have spent this year (2nd) learning the basics of grammar (nouns, verbs, pronouns) with a much stronger foundation in reading skills. THAT would have been the natural progression but I didn't have the confidence/knowledge last year to realize that.

 

Now I'm just figuring out how to fix it without hurting dd by pushing too many things on her AND provide her with what she needs at this stage to be successful in the next couple of years when writing comes into play more. It's been a hard road letting go of "public school" mentality and I still struggle with it, now it seems I have to let go of "WTM" mentality just enough to provide what I think is best for my dd.

 

What appeals to me about CM is the focus on keeping a child a child but still demanding excellence in the tasks at hand. I'm not confident that the progression is enough- at Ambleside under Language Arts, it has a child doing copywork until 4th grade without dictation or written narration. It is the same at Simply Charlotte. I'm not comfortable with that yet. Even the products we're changing to Primary Language Lessons and Language Lessons for the Very Young have dictation and written reproductions (I consider these written narrations).

 

I need a middle ground somehow and I'm still figuring that out. Tapestry of Grace has been such a God-send because it really opened my eyes to the proper level of books I should be exposing dd7 to at this point and it keeps me in check each week so that I don't use older material just because *I* like it. I'm really weighing what we're using and how, what books are beneficial to read aloud for a variety of reasons (what is good for dd's heart? what is good for dd's soul? what is good for dd's mind?).

 

I feel like a mess but I'm feeling better about giving my children what THEY need rather than what others say they need and when. Now, I still have this little monkey on my back saying, "what about standardized testing?", "will dh think I'm not being effective if dd doesn't pass her 3rd grade test?", and things like that.

 

Comparisons about other homeschools aren't bothering me as much but it still gets to me at times. Especially when a child who is the same age as dd7 is reading Harry Potter books and writing paragraphs already or has their own creative journal in which they write a full page. God is helping me with that aspect. Lol.

 

I am going to read CM's Original Series and spend some time in prayer really thinking about this and what would be best for our kids. Hopefully the smaller questions like (when and how with spelling) will work themselves out.

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The Charlotte Mason Primer By Cindy Rushton is my favorite for the nitty gritty and the one I loan out if someone is interested. I don't know if that was one you have, but it is really short and good about going into the details of how.

 

 

 

I second the the website Higher Up and Further In. A real gem!

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if I were starting with young students and looking for a curriculum that matched up to CM...we've always been eclectic, and I've found HistoryMakers from Trisms to be a great base for us, but I think that's a little older than your little people...the key idea for us has been to use short lessons, lots of variety, lots of living books, and nature study.

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Jessica~ You are on the right path. Your dd is still very young to me. Lay a firm foundation in reading and writing while she is little, and she will knock your socks off once those skills are firmly in place. Learning to read is just that. Once they move onto reading to learn...Well watch out, it just gets better and better..:D Your confidence will be firmly in place by the time your ds begins. Another vote for the CM Companion and Original Series.

I gotta run....:rolleyes:

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The original volumes by CM are the nitty gritty philosophy- but you have to "digest" it yourself and apply it to know "what to do when" etc.

 

I "hear" where you are coming from...

 

I have the Levinson books as well- and while I enjoy them- they wouldn't help me "know what to do when."

I think Levinson and Penny Gardner's book are most often recommended for the practical break downs of components.

 

Living Books Curriculum is what we are using and one of their guides alone is full of tons of CM philosophy and how to apply it. They recently went to also offering e-books of their guides which are less expensive. This is just if you are like me- resource queen- and wanted one for research for your own planning.

 

FWIW, LBC doesn't start any grammar until second half of second grade and also- no spelling at all in second grade. Second grade is focused on reading fluency. I have to say that this has really worked for my son. (Although I do use FLL as well).

I am not sure when spelling starts? I was planning on using Spelling Wisdom- next year in third grade.

 

Just some thoughts to add to the plethora that has already been posted.

 

Also,

I think a key with these younger years is the immersion in and delight in good, wondrous, idea inspiring books. There is a CM quote: brain is forsaking me right now... about the best books being for our children- worthy books, a "feast" of books.

 

Best wishes,

Rebecca

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Dear Jessica,

I forgot about that one! (Teaching Less) I haven't actually read that myself so I can't offer any insights.

 

I was actually referring to a teaching guide for a particular grade level. I would say that more than 50 % of my second grade guide is actually notes, articles, and philosophy on the method. The guide is Five parts. The fifth part is the weekly plan(what you see on the sample). The First Part is the method, The second part is notes for the particular grade(i.e. 2) and subjects covered. The third part is pertinent and helpful articles. The fourth part is book lists, schedule planner, etc.

 

Also, I remembered: They have Parent's Journal archives on their website. I believe they are listed under resources. I will double check. If you search those, you might find one on a topic of interest. You can receive those emails free yourself as well if interested.

 

I hope this makes sense. My brain is fuzzy today!

 

Hope this helps,

Rebecca

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What appeals to me about CM is the focus on keeping a child a child but still demanding excellence in the tasks at hand. I'm not confident that the progression is enough- at Ambleside under Language Arts, it has a child doing copywork until 4th grade without dictation or written narration. It is the same at Simply Charlotte. I'm not comfortable with that yet.

 

Jessica,

 

Not trying to dissuade you from CM at all, but may I just say that based on your comment about the CM way of Lang Arts, that you just might want to look at Ruth Beechick's Lang Arts methods for that particular subject.

 

Just some notes:

 

*CM never taught grammar through dictation as many believe.

*CM teaches grammar with a formal program around age 10 or 11.

*CM uses narration for composition, either oral or written, no 'writing' is taught until high school.

*CM uses copywork for handwriting practice not for grammar or spelling.

*CM uses dictation for spelling, not grammar.

 

*RB (Ruth Beechick) uses copywork and dictation for handwriting, re-inforcing phonics, spelling, grammar and composition teaching.

 

*In CM's plan compostion was learned 'naturally' by doing via copywork and dictation, however, no specific skills are targeted or taught via copywork as they are with RB methods.

 

*CM reading lessons are much more 'sight' oriented than RB.

 

Anyway, all that to say, that I love many of CM's ideas...but, I like RB methods for Language Arts, myself. Just wanted to throw these tidbits in! They were based on my own notes from when I read vol 1 and vol 6 of her works.

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Thank you Dawne!

 

 

I'm not looking to follow blindly anymore though, I have Ruth's 3R's, Language and Thinking and the You Can Homeschool Successfully Grades 5-8 is on it's way. I think I'm looking for a path we feel comfortable with and a clear philosophy (adopted or not) behind it to keep us going with confidence. The middle ground will probably involve Charlotte's philosophy, Ruth's practical tips, WTM's overall goal, TOG's practical curriculum (Year Plans and Writing Aids) with a sprinkle of curriculum that reflects all of it.

 

I love Primary Language Lessons, absolutely love it. I'm truly just trying to get my head on straight so I can lead us in a good direction without burdening us with expectations that are unrealistic for where dd is. I can assess where dd is right now but what do I do with that information? What is the objective that we should realistically try to reach for the remainder of this year? What is the most important skills to work on? What is good enough to be left alone at this time?

 

Pray, read, pray...

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Some CM books I have (that may not have been mentioned yet):

 

Teaching Children by Diane Lopez http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=54899&netp_id=113179&event=ESRCN&item_code=WW&view=details

"...a unique curriculum guide for grade levels K through six....draws on noted English educator Charlotte Mason and the Child-Light approach to learning." [from back cover] It gets pretty detailed, like what spelling rules should be mastered in 3rd grade, literature lists for each grade, etc. Andreola's book has more description of how an actual lesson might look like, whereas this book has more of what material the author thinks should be covered when (24 chapters, mostly by subject: reading, spelling, English, math, social studies, science, etc.) So, this is the author's interpretation of CM philosophy, perhaps comparable to Ambleside Online or Living Books Curriculum.

 

Educating the Whole-Hearted Child: A Handbook for Christian Home Education by the Clarksons http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=62006&netp_id=127688&event=ESRCN&item_code=WW&view=details

Probably too general for what you're looking for. It has some of the CM philosophy explained with examples (habits of attention, orderliness, et al). There are 9 chapters; a couple are "Teaching Methods" and "Learning Styles."

 

When Children Love to Learn: A Practical Application of Charlotte Mason's Philosophy for Today edited by Elaine Cooper http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=42598&netp_id=337058&event=ESRCN&item_code=WW&view=details

I'm not sure, but it seems like this book was written more for regular school settings, though it is still helpful for homeschools. It contains excerpts from CM's writings along with some examples of practical application. But there aren't detailed lists of 4th grade work, etc. The section on Reading & Literature is only 5-1/2 pages.

 

For the Children's Sake: Foundations of Education for Home and School by Susan Schaeffer Macaulay http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=5290X&netp_id=150700&event=ESRCN&item_code=WW&view=details

My absolute favorite book for educational philosophy. I try use these principles the most with whatever curriculum I'm using.

 

HTH!

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(Or maybe I should say, "pedagogical shift," since your main goals probably haven't really changed.)

 

I wish I could suggest some nitty-gritty stuff for you, but I can't. I don't know if this will help, but I have found that the more "practical" something gets, the less freedom you have in applying it to your child. Conversely, the more freedom a program gives you, the less specifics you are given!

 

Have you thought of using The Harp and Laurel Wreath as your foundation for copywork/dictation, along with the "1000 Good Books" list? Also, Beechick's language booklet, from the 3 R's gives some specifics that could guide you, at least in the language arts department.

 

Another book I've wanted to check out, but haven't looked at yet, is Berquist's Designing Your Own Classical Curriculum. I have the feeling it may be more CM than "traditionally classical," especially if Harp and Laurel Wreath is supposed to go with it. Have you looked at this book?

 

Blessings to you on your journey,

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My situation is very similar to the one that you are finding yourself in now. When I first started hsing, I was so thankful that I had TWTM to give me a blueprint of my children's education as I didn't have a clue as to what I was doing. TWTM gave me confidence as our journey unfolded.

 

I did spelling and grammar (FLL) with my first grader along with all of the other subjects that are listed in TWTM. The result was a little girl who would cry every time I mentioned the word school. She hated our learning time. I think I burnt her out.

 

As we entered 2nd grade, I realized that Spelling Workout was not working for us, so I switched programs. It didn't take me long to see that this wasn't working either. She was getting the words right when we did the lesson but in everyday writing, she would get those same words wrong. Also, if she got a word wrong, she would have a melt down. This is not what I wanted for my children. I wanted that old cliche 'the love of learning' to seep back into my dd.

 

So I stopped doing spelling with her. I stopped doing Grammar as well as that wasn't working either. It was at this time that I found CM. I had known about her before but I had fluffed her off because I was gung ho on classical. I joined the AO yahoo group and I learned lots from that group. I also have read Vol.1 of her writings. This is as nitty gritty as you are going to get. It helped me flesh other things out as well, like math.

 

There is not everything CM that I agree with, just as there is not everything classical that I agree with. I am hoping, though, that I can merge the two together to make a happy medium.

 

The problem I have is that CM and TWTM differ on dication, copywork and narration as to what ages and how to do it. This is where I am right now. I am trying to figure out which way would be better for my children in the long run. This is very tricky. I am very pulled to SWB's way of dictation, narration, etc. I am just a bit confused as to what would be better.

 

This is long but I wanted you to know that there are others who are in the same boat as you are and are trying to figure out which paddle would be better to get to the other side.

 

 

Julia

mom of 3 (8,7,5)

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because I'm finding it so interesting.

 

It's amazing to me that in doing my "mid-year review" of first grade over the last couple of weeks, I have been coming to many of the same conclusions, and also wondering which direction to take, where to go from here, etc.

 

I remember that at the beginning of the year (or over the summer when I was planning, really) I wanted to follow WTM as far as the chronological procession of history (not because I thought it would make a difference to dd, but *I* like the orderliness of it), and science recommendations (because I just didn't have strong feelings about science, or really any ideas about what to do in that area), but still implement many Charlotte Mason methods. Short lessons, a bigger focus on fine arts and nature study, etc. I have moved pretty far away from those goals and got more stuck in "we must do this, in this order, etc." but losing sight of *why* we are doing what we are doing.

 

Anyway, sorry to ramble and make this all about me, but it's just interesting to come across this discussion just at a time when I am feeling the need to return to my CM roots a little bit.

 

:)

Melissa

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Triv,

Slap my forehead too b/c I sold my Levison CM book years ago too and now I want it back b/c I heard it's the easiest one to understand. I bought the Adreola one and just did not care for it. I didn't read the other responses, but my favorite online resources for CM are PennyGardner.com and SimplyCharlotteMason.com. I love everything about SCM.com. On my list of things to do is read Vol 6 of the CM original series. Most CMers say that's the best way to go. Good luck!

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Jessica,

 

After reading your newest post about your thinking and questioning, the book Educating The Whole Hearted Child came to mind. It has been mentioned above, but I just wanted to mention that it came to mind immediately when I read your thoughts. I think that book does a good job of having one think about their individual child(ren) and needs/interests when deciding what to do and when. (Still is general, but just presents things in a way that makes one think a little differently than before perhaps.........and also gives encouragement to go with your instinct and against the flow around you if need be....I'm having trouble putting my thoughts into words, but anyway, maybe your library or someone you know will have that book and you can look it over.....)

 

I have never struggled with curriculum choices, pacing decisions, approaches to take, and such like I have in the past couple of years (and my dd just turned 6, so the implementation is really just beginning)....I read a lot, and think things over a lot and then read some more. Just adding to the chorus of "you are not alone" :) . It's ironic (sort of) in that I taught other children for 10 years before becoming a mom. I only THOUGHT I labored over how to approach things with them......LOL....now I know better. That was nothing compared to now. LOL

 

Wishing you all the best in your researching and thinking through things.

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II don't understand why we're learning spelling at this stage when it seems having a better grasp on phonics would be more beneficial. I don't understand why there is ANY focus whatsoever on anything but gaining reading fluency and getting better at handwriting through copywork.

 

 

I am totally with you on this one. I have been homeschooling 2 ds (both age 7) for about 1 1/2 years and I feel like I am finally starting to get more of an understanding about what my kids should and shouldn't be doing. Spelling Workout and trying to write sentences and paragraphs on their own just weren't (and aren't) doable yet for them. We have started focusing more on reading and some phonics review, as well as copywork. It really feels like we are on the right track, although I still have qualms when I see all of the handwriting that other kids do.

 

Regarding Charlotte Mason, I was delighted to see your post because I had skimmed Andreola's book briefly last year and just last week picked it up again and really started reading it through and have been inspired by it. I have had some of the same questions you have about actual application.

 

She highly recommends the Handbook of Nature Study by Anna Comstock. I have been wondering if it is outdated? (Hope this isn't considered off-topic.)

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She highly recommends the Handbook of Nature Study by Anna Comstock. I have been wondering if it is outdated? (Hope this isn't considered off-topic.)

 

There's a lot in there that's basic factual info. I'm sure there have been some new discoveries. It's like having an old set of encyclopedias and a new set... but about science and nature and not history.

 

It's a huge book. We tried to like it, but just didn't get into it. If you have a nature lover in the family who doesn't mind big books with small print you'd probably like it.

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I'm not looking to follow blindly anymore though, I have Ruth's 3R's, Language and Thinking and the You Can Homeschool Successfully Grades 5-8 is on it's way. I think I'm looking for a path we feel comfortable with and a clear philosophy (adopted or not) behind it to keep us going with confidence.

 

 

Not like you don't have a ton of books on hand or coming, but I'd also suggest reading Ruth Beechick's "A Biblical Home Education". Published in 2007. Our library just got it and it's fascinating; it gives an overview of Christian homeschooling that resonates in our household very well. In fact, it's the best fit we've read so far.

 

We're a year behind you with our eldest (1st grade) but we're switching things around quite a bit... moving more towards Beechick teaching methods, Charlotte Mason habit training, and a strong focus on the basics.

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She highly recommends the Handbook of Nature Study by Anna Comstock.

 

If you have a decent library system, I'd check there to see if it's something you can get into. I got it out of my library and looked all through it and read a good bit, but still couldn't quite figure out the HOW of implementing. Still (half-heartedly, I admit) looking for something else that would work.

 

:)

Melissa

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The key to nature studies and nature walks is to have 1 focus for the day, find a particular tree, bird or plant. Learn about it before you leave and have some type of visual aid to help you identify it. When you find it (make sure THAT is possible) then discuss what you learned about it, sketch it or whatever else you want to do. If you aimlessly walk without purpose everyone will get frustrated and feel it is pointless. Nature Study by Comstock prepares you for each of these nature walks by giving you 1 focus, including a poem (a feature I love). I do not own the book but I did check it out from the library. It's a wonderful book and one that could prepare YOU for the nature walk.

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still couldn't quite figure out the HOW of implementing.

 

Each AO term has a nature focus, for example, in 2nd grade the first term is: insects/invertebrates

 

So...you'd look over the section in Handbook, paying attention to which ones you'd likely see in your area.

 

During your nature walk pay attention and be on the look out for any of these. The idea is to heighten your childs awareness of those things.

 

You have 3 months to try and get 4-5 sketches of various insects/intertebrates. You can use the Handbook as a guide for YOU to teach about the critters conversationally, or you can also read directly to your child about the insect they sketched.

 

Of course just because it is 'insect' term does not mean you can't sketch/learn about anything else out there that strikes your child's interest. ;)

 

According to CM, you also want to not be 'too teaching' but let the child observe, making their own realizations about the insect.

 

Your nature notebook is also not JUST for sketches. You can keep a running list of the names of insects you saw, poems about insects or anything else you'd like.

 

The handbook is really meant to be more a resource for YOU to share info with your children. I liken it to a 'living' nature encyclopedia. You know the Kingfisher encyclopedia used in first grade for animals...well Handbook is the same thing (more than just animals though) only a living book version. Instead of making a notebook page ala WTM, your focus is to FIND the actual critter, observe first hand, and make a nature notebook.

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...reading the original writings.

 

IMO, there's no substitute.

 

I loved the Levison (Levinson?) books because they had some practical breakdowns of the how/what, but really, to truly understand a person's philosophy...I think you have to read *their* words.

 

I think it's extremely worthwhile reading, even if one doesn't embrace all, or even most of CM's ideas about education. (I use quite a few of her principles, but nothing close to all of them.)

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