Tammi K Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 My 14 year old just returned from a river rafting/hiking trip with her AHG troop. I picked her and a friend up early, after the river portion, because of a skating competition this weekend. On the drive home her friend were telling me lots of stories about the miserable weather and how kids got hypothermia and the rafts got separated and there was no food and Brian Horner's rescue group happened to come upon them during a training exercise and helped them out. My daughter filled in details here and there but she's a pretty low key kid so she didn't add much drama - just a few details to clarify, as needed. Today, I talked to a leader that also came home early. It turns out that my little girl downplayed the part about actually having 15 of the 18, including the accompanying doctor, people on the trip actually hypothermic. AC was one of the few who wasn't. Several of the girls and adult leaders were actually shocky and unresponsive. It sounds as if lives were seriously at risk. Fortunately, Horner, a big name in Alaskan wilderness training was out with a group of trainees and came upon the group and with the few girls who were not chilled to the bone, helped get a fire started, rigged a tarp, and basically patched up the group. In the end the entire group completed the trek with no serious injury. And, I learned that my sweet girl keeps her head in a crisis and was very helpful - going as far a dragging one of the leaders into the bushes and pulling off her soaked clothing and dressing her in dry gear. So, tonight I'm a proud and profoundly grateful mama who has her baby girl back home safe and sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 That's freaky scary!! Glad it turned out ok!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Geek Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I was thinking rafting in the summer, really shouldn't be a big deal until I saw that you were talking Alaska. Did they not have wet suits? I have whitewater rafted in March in WV, it sounds like some bad decisions were made because it shouldn't have been life threatening at this time of year up there. I am glad your dd and her friend are well and that the rest of the group seems to be OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Wow, I'd be shocked, scared and proud! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Wow, it sounds like the leaders really weren't prepared to deal with the temperatures. Yikes! Glad she's home safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Wow, it sounds like the leaders really weren't prepared to deal with the temperatures. Yikes! Glad she's home safe. Sounds like the leaders didn't know what they were about at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I am very proud of your dd. I would say she helped saved the lives of those others that were hypothermic. The trip sounds like it was scary but your dd kept her head, helped others and really shined as far as I am concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 It's a dangerous activity. I now know three different dads who were killed while rafting. I've never been, though my dh went rafting once or twice before we met. Knowing what I know now, I would have a hard time letting my kids go on a rafting excursion. I hope it doesn't come up before they're adults :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammi K Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 One of the leaders also came home early -her daughter was severely affected. So, I was able to speak with her for a long time. Yes, the biggest problem was most of the girls weren't prepared for the weather. Tuesday's temp dropped down the the 30's. But, the bigger problem was rain and wind. None of the girls had neoprene gloves. So, cold hands made it hard to paddle - which made it hard to steer - which left one of the rafts continually stranded on rocks. Several leaders were wet just getting the raft back on track. Lots of little things added up to big problems. Genrally this river is calm and warm enough not to need dry suits. It's actually why the chose it. Unfortunately, the adult in charge of the planning is a military guy and I was told he ran the trip like a drill sergeant. The worst of it is the he expected the girls to do all of the work, planning, and organizing. I have no problem with my kids being asked to work hard. Unfortunately, this was a group of 12-14 year old girls - most of whom have never done anything like this before. After girls started exibiting symptoms but were off the water and getting warm and dry, if they had just stayed put (they had food, fire and shelter) until the rain passed, they wold have been fine. Tired - but fine. However, guy in charge was determined to keep to the schedule. Apparently he PLANNED for 27 miles on Tuesday. Crazy considering these are girls, most who've never rafted, not well trained scouts. In the end, all is well for her. I'm concerned about the girls still out there on the backpack portion of the trip. I hope the adults in charge have learned something and a more cautious over the remaining days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) congratulations to your dd's keeping her head - and how fortunate they ran into someone who knew what they were doing. in your dd's group, was there no one who was actually *certified* as a guide? I speak as someone with a good friend who is a level 5 cataract certified (level 6 is considered impassable), and will go on trips requiring wet suits. the groups most likely to get in trouble have no one with *adequate* experience. a good guide would make sure *everyone* was adequately outfitted, and refused to include anyone who wasn't. seriously, they're lucky no one died. My friend once watched a similarly inexperienced group (it was apparent by the "gung-ho" attitudes) go past in good weather conditions (but poor river conditions) and low and behold, further down the river was a log jam the previous group was not equiped to deal with and people DIED. eta: I would not hesitate to send my kids with someone who knew what they were doing - and have sent both of my older son's on day-trips with this friend. someone who didn't, no way. (but I've heard many of our friend's stories as he's on the river for multi-day trips a good half-dozen+ times a year.) from what you've said of the "leader" (and I use that word losely), he's not doing his job of making sure everyone is safe out there. I'd be very worried about the next backpacking leg as well. expect more hypothermia. Edited July 13, 2012 by gardenmom5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammi K Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Actually, they did have one certified guide. Unfortunately, they had three rafts and no working walkie talkies. SO, when rafts got separated, there was no way to get word to the raft with the guide. Also, they had previously had one girl hurt her back during the portage, so they switched around kids and several kids were put on rafts separate from their belongings. My dd is a pretty tall, well developed 14 year old. She was moved to a raft with some of the younger, weaker girls. Once she got wet, there was nothing dry to fit her. The same thing happened with several other girls. Two of the dads just rafted this river two weeks ago with a group of boy scouts. The big difference is that with the boys they planned 4 days to do 50 miles, the boys were experienced, and the weather was beautiful. For the girls, they planned to complete the same distance in 2 days and none of the girls had ever gone before. Of course, I knew of the experience level of the kids, but we were told that there was an experienced guide, all 4 adult leaders had rescue training, and the troop paid for another leader to complete guide training. Unfortunately, that was the leader who planned the trip and he was determined to let nothing stand in the way of the schedule - including common sense. Because of a skating comp this weekend, I had planned to only have my dd with the group for the rafting portion. Most of the girls are still with the same group of adults. I was in tears last night worrying about them considering the poor leadership shown by the adults with the girls. They are all off the river and have moved on to hiking Denali so I'm hoping they are safer. But, I will be so relieved when everyone is back safe and sound on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Well that's just scary. I'm not sure I would let my dd go on any future trips that included that particular man. I wonder if the other parents will be told what happened or if they'll just downplay it and let it pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I'm glad your daughter is safe, but heads need to roll. Big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Well that's just scary. I'm not sure I would let my dd go on any future trips that included that particular man. I wonder if the other parents will be told what happened or if they'll just downplay it and let it pass. That would be my worry now. I would also demand that the group do a debriefing of sorts with parents explaining not only what went wrong and how it affected the girls but what will be done in future to ensure the girls safety. I would not allow my dd to participate in any other outtings with this group until that happened. I can see this being a 1 time situation that they fully inform parents of and have a clear plan to make sure the girls are safe in any future outtings of any kids based on lessons learned from this. As a parent I would be fine with that. But if they tried to down play it, or have no clear plan to prevent a disaster of a trip from happening like this again I would be saying no to an awful lot of potentially fun things in an effort to keep my kids safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Wow. I would be thinking long and hard before I allowed my child to go on any more trips with this organization. It sounds as if it's only the chance encounter with outsiders that allowed all the girls to come back alive. What a catastrophic failure of leadership and planning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 That is amazing. I am so glad your daughter is safe and warm. I hope the others get back alright. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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