I am seriously mortified because of something that I read in the Pearls' links.

[Carol in Cal.]

Pearl talks about raising one finger at an older child in public, this being the signal that that kid is going to get 5 licks when they get home. 2 fingers is 10 licks. Oh my gosh.

 

I taught DD when she was very young that when I started to count to three, that meant that whatever I had suggested was flat out going to happen, not negotiable. Later, when she got a little older, I would just raise my one finger to signal the count to one, and then add another. She always would do what I said, usually on one, because, again, she knew that it was not negotiable and that at three I would be coming over to help/make her do it.

 

But there was never any hitting involved. You don't have to hit kids to teach them that you really mean what you say!

 

And, now I figure that some observers who read Pearl probably thought I was threatening her with a spanking. Wow, that just makes me sick. I am so embarrassed. I STILL raise one finger from time to time (DD turns 12 this weekend.) It is convenient! It conveys intent to enforce! It does not convey violent intent!

 

I feel like there is this whole subculture around this issue of ritualized physical punishment, and that I was not nearly as aware of it as I had thought. I hate the idea that anyone could watch us and think that that is what is going on. Now I have to decide whether to abandon this effective, discreet, innocent signal or just ignore the possible implications.

 

I wish things were different. Drat.

[lynn]

Pearl talks about raising one finger at an older child in public, this being the signal that that kid is going to get 5 licks when they get home. 2 fingers is 10 licks. Oh my gosh.

 

I taught DD when she was very young that when I started to count to three, that meant that whatever I had suggested was flat out going to happen, not negotiable. Later, when she got a little older, I would just raise my one finger to signal the count to one, and then add another. She always would do what I said, usually on one, because, again, she knew that it was not negotiable and that at three I would be coming over to help/make her do it.

 

But there was never any hitting involved. You don't have to hit kids to teach them that you really mean what you say!

 

And, now I figure that some observers who read Pearl probably thought I was threatening her with a spanking. Wow, that just makes me sick. I am so embarrassed. I STILL raise one finger from time to time (DD turns 12 this weekend.) It is convenient! It conveys intent to enforce! It does not convey violent intent!

 

I feel like there is this whole subculture around this issue of ritualized physical punishment, and that I was not nearly as aware of it as I had thought. I hate the idea that anyone could watch us and think that that is what is going on. Now I have to decide whether to abandon this effective, discreet, innocent signal or just ignore the possible implications.

 

I wish things were different. Drat.

 

Yikes....never thought of that. With ds one of his biggest things to loose for disrespect, defiance etc is playtime and 1 meant 1 afternoon, 2 meant 2 afternoons 3 we are now up to a week then we move on to computer times, etc. but it never got that far. I did however, have someone ask me one time what I meant. Do you think they though 5 spankings?

[newbie]

Pearl talks about raising one finger at an older child in public, this being the signal that that kid is going to get 5 licks when they get home. 2 fingers is 10 licks. Oh my gosh.

 

I taught DD when she was very young that when I started to count to three, that meant that whatever I had suggested was flat out going to happen, not negotiable. Later, when she got a little older, I would just raise my one finger to signal the count to one, and then add another. She always would do what I said, usually on one, because, again, she knew that it was not negotiable and that at three I would be coming over to help/make her do it.

 

But there was never any hitting involved. You don't have to hit kids to teach them that you really mean what you say!

 

And, now I figure that some observers who read Pearl probably thought I was threatening her with a spanking. Wow, that just makes me sick. I am so embarrassed. I STILL raise one finger from time to time (DD turns 12 this weekend.) It is convenient! It conveys intent to enforce! It does not convey violent intent!

 

I feel like there is this whole subculture around this issue of ritualized physical punishment, and that I was not nearly as aware of it as I had thought. I hate the idea that anyone could watch us and think that that is what is going on. Now I have to decide whether to abandon this effective, discreet, innocent signal or just ignore the possible implications.

 

I wish things were different. Drat.

 

I totally did not know of finger thing either. I dont do licks in our house, and what amazes me, arent you supposed to punish the child immediately. Are you really going to wait until you get home, where they have totally forgotten and things have subsided. Thats ridiculous. I just cant imagine saying, okay honey after your bath get ready for the spanking.

 

The only word I can think of is ridiculous.

Jet

[Cindy in C-ville]

Oh, I wouldn't worry about it. I have never heard that before and I doubt many other people have either. As for whether that's making a threat you don't intend to keep or simply getting your child's attention so that he/she can monitor behavior - that's for you to decide. Ultimately, my suggestion is simply to not worry so much about what other people think.

 

Blessings,

Cindy

[bkpan]

Oh, I wouldn't worry about it. I have never heard that before and I doubt many other people have either. As for whether that's making a threat you don't intend to keep or simply getting your child's attention so that he/she can monitor behavior - that's for you to decide. Ultimately, my suggestion is simply to not worry so much about what other people think.

 

Blessings,

Cindy

:iagree:

[abbeyej]

Honestly, I don't think it should bother you. Yes, I raise one finger and my kids obey (okay, dd sometimes gets two) in public or in private. I think a great many people do that. It doesn't mean we beat our children.

 

You can't worry yourself over what you *think* other people *might* *assume* based on a very obscure set of connections.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

 

 

I feel like there is this whole subculture around this issue of ritualized physical punishment, and that I was not nearly as aware of it as I had thought. I hate the idea that anyone could watch us and think that that is what is going on. Now I have to decide whether to abandon this effective, discreet, innocent signal or just ignore the possible implications.

 

I wish things were different. Drat.

 

Oh, pish. You're going to change how you lovingly guide your child because of something *Michael Pearl* advocates doing?

 

Pish posh. You parent your child as you see fit. Don't worry about what some subculture might or might not think. What other people think matters not one whit. Not half a whit.

[Carol in Cal.]

Oh, pish. You're going to change how you lovingly guide your child because of something *Michael Pearl* advocates doing?

 

Pish posh. You parent your child as you see fit. Don't worry about what some subculture might or might not think. What other people think matters not one whit. Not half a whit.

 

I hate the idea that someone who does this would feel reinforced in this treatment of her children by thinking that I do it as well. There is a lot of that reinforcement thing floating around here. People who hit their children mostly seem proud of it, but sort of half hidden about it. They seem relieved to think that others do the same. I don't make a big thing about this verbally, but I avoid reinforcing this whenever I can. I want them to quietly see how unneccessary it is, without being in their faces about it. (If they did it in front of me, I would be in their faces, though. Or especially if they did it in front of my DD, who has been raised so differently than I was that she does not recognize the signs and signals at all. Clueless, and I'm happy about that.)

 

But, you're right. I should just continue. It works so well for us, and it is so discreet that DD is never embarrassed by a public test of wills. And, frankly, after reading the threads during the last couple of days, I am seriously considering being more verbal about alternative methods with some of the people that I am concerned with.

[3lilreds in NC]

I agree with Cindy - a lot fewer people know the details of the Pearls and their method of madness than actually know. I have heard of the Pearls but didn't know about the fingers and associated spankings. And, you know what's really going on - I don't think you need to worry about what other people think, when you have what is clearly an effective parenting tool at your disposal.

[Joanne]

As most of you reading know, I don't believe in spanking.

 

However, IMO, if you *do* spanking; there is a window of age that is appropriate. IMO, that window involves children too young to understand delayed punishment.

[nmoira]

 

And, now I figure that some observers who read Pearl probably thought I was threatening her with a spanking.

It's far more likely they thought you were doing 1-2-3 Magic.

[Brindee]

I don't know anything about the Pearls and the fingers. I HAVE heard of the 123 Magic that nmoira mentioned though, and I, personally, would think you were doing that!

[gardenschooler]

It's far more likely they thought you were doing 1-2-3 Magic.

 

That's what I was going to say, as it's a much more widely-read book.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Well, I don't think MOST people probably know about the Pearls' trash so you were probably pretty safe anyway.

 

I do think abandoning it would have other positive effects though. Honestly, don't you mean what you say when you say it? Why train a kid not to mind until you PROVE you're going to enforce it? Prove it each and every time the first time instead and they'll take you seriously each time you say something, not just when you've decided to count to 3.

[Teri H.; Oregon]

I agree too. :)

[Carol in Cal.]

I do think abandoning it would have other positive effects though. Honestly, don't you mean what you say when you say it? Why train a kid not to mind until you PROVE you're going to enforce it? Prove it each and every time the first time instead and they'll take you seriously each time you say something, not just when you've decided to count to 3.

 

Sometimes I'm opening a discussion. Sometimes I plan to insist but if DD has a serious objection I will listen. And, most of the time, she minds me on the first try. But when she doesn't, she knows that she doesn't get to argue indefinately, and that I have the deciding vote, always. The finger signal emphasizes that there is NO arguing in this particular case, in case I was unclear or she chose to think that I was unclear in my words.

 

I also try not to give orders unless I plan to follow through. I make the short and clear as much as possible. But it is good to have a back up signal as well.

 

And, BTW, I don't remember ever getting to 3 during the last 5 years or so. But when I started the 1-2-3 thing, when she was a 2 or 3 year old, I framed it like, "I need you to do do XXX. Shall I count to three to help you get ready?" (I never read the book--is that what they do?) So, on 3, I would kind of walk her through whatever it was that I wanted her to do, and she learned that there was no choice when it was framed that way. Thus it was easy to carry over into being a signal of seriousness, to this day.

 

By the way, I am a serious control freak, and have had to make myself build some choice and room for self-assertion into the way that I work with DD. One of the reasons I have done this is that she is a girl, and I don't want her to be pushed around by aggressive guys. She needs to have some practice in asserting herself when she is not in a position of strength, therefore. I well remember how my friends and I, well into our 20's, were literally incapable of saying 'no thank you' if someone asked us out and we didn't want to go, or if someone requested our phone numbers. We really couldn't; we were too embarrassed, and we were also too accustomed to doing what people said. (I am SO not like this anymore. I can hardly remember why I felt that way, but I did; long after I became a self-supporting and very independent, capable adult in all other respects.) So I consciously try to draw a balance between instant obedience and room for dissent. It goes against my nature, so I have to work hard at it. But I love my daughter, so I do work hard at it. I have had a good life, by and large, and I want her to have an even better one.

[QuirkyKapers]

 

By the way, I am a serious control freak, and have had to make myself build some choice and room for self-assertion into the way that I work with DD.

 

Me Too! I really have to work at this control thing... a lot.... I am not sure why I think if I control everything things will work out so much better:glare: Not!

As far as the fingers, how about instead of holding one finger up, how about holding one finger down than adding another if needed, like they do in baseball before they determine the play?;)

On a more serious note, I would have never equated the finger thing to Pearls. In fact, I had never even heard of them until the discussion just recently on this board.

[Carol in Cal.]

As far as the fingers, how about instead of holding one finger up, how about holding one finger down than adding another if needed, like they do in baseball before they determine the play?;)

 

 

Actually, I think I will try to come up with another signal.

 

The fingers down thing won't work, though. Unfortunately it is too similar to a gang sign, and there has been an extreme flare up of gang warfare around town this past year. People are really edgy. Even though this is usually not an issue in the neighborhoods where we live and play, it is starting to spread all over. This year the summer school for high school for the whole city was placed in our neighborhood. (The host schools rotate annually.) On Wednesday there was a gang-related stabbing just outside of the high school, in an area where there is usually little or no gang activity. So I have to be really careful. No one would bother a 50 year old dumpy white woman, but a 12 year lovely girl needs to not appear to be mocking gang signs if she wants to live.

[Ashleen]

My husband and I have used 1-2-3 Magic, as have probably 75% of the parents we see in public. When I hear a parent say, "One" or see one finger go up, I assume they are 1-2-3 Magic parents (a system that involves time-out if you actually get to three but my kids almost always straighten up immediately if I say, "one.") I've never assumed anyone was going to spank their kids when they start the counting, but I have thought some parents are awfully ineffective when they've already counted to about 10 and the kid is ignoring them and they start begging their child to please, please start behaving soon because mommy's really tired and it's been a long day and they have to get home and make dinner for daddy and haven't they had a fun day so far and why do they want to ruin it by ignoring mommy and...and...and...on and on while the child continues to ignore them or argue.

[Puma Mom]

I wouldn't worry that you're being misconstrued. I would think most would consider it a warning to fix the behavior.

 

My mom used to count to three with us. She could control us in church from the choir loft with her finger!;)

[umarider]

If the inferred connection to "Pearl" troubles you, perhaps you could use a different signal?

 

When I was teaching 1st grade, I taught the kids a hand signal and used it whenever we were in assemblies or walking in the halls, etc. I made a "check mark" using my thumb and index finger. This was to signal that the student should "self-check" their behavior and see if they were behaving appropriately for the situation. It always worked, and the desired correction was made, often without me having to visibly single-out the student in front of peers. I still use it occasionally for my dc.