Comparing costs for TOG and MFW

[bethben]

I think I'm getting all my information correct on this - If I'm wrong, feel free to correct it! There's a lot of people that are thrown off from the cost of TOG and I thought I would just compare (since these are the 2 programs I'm considering). Neither of these costs includes books.

 

MFW cost K-12 (just for TM's not books - this is recommended TM's needed to complete the program and all literature and writing components)

 

K - $105

1st - $150

Adventures - $100

ECC-Mod (5 yrs)$500

H.S. $540 (this includes TM, and literature/composition supplement and tests)

7th-8th Progony Press guides (4 guides) - $68

4 levels of writing strands - $80

 

 

TOTAL for MFW K-12 $1543

 

 

Tapestry of Grace:

 

 

4 years of TM's - $900

Writing Aids - $50

Map Aids (4 years) - $100

Evaluations Rhetoric - $50

 

Total cost for K-12 TOG - $1100

I included the Evaluations for Rhetoric since they are included in MFW as high school tests. I also know that you need to add some sort of phonics program to TOG that MFW includes. Also, MFW includes math and all the books in the K and 1st program. I took the cost of the basic program. MFW also includes all science up to grade 7. TOG on the other hand includes literature and writing which MFW supplements with Writing Strands and Progony Press guides in 7th-8th grade.

 

So, you can see that the two programs are VERY similar in cost when you add in the extras from MFW that TOG doesn't add. When you add science to TOG, they come out almost equal. Just thought it would be good for someone to see the actual costs. I know a lot of people buy the books with the program and TOG does have a lot more books that are specific to the program.

 

Hope this helps some decisions!

Beth

[~Tara~]

I've been doing the same stuff.

At first put off by TOG's cost for just the lesson plan. No books included (!!)

So I'd dig back into my MFW research. Find that it really doesn't include that much 'more' all around.

 

I *think* we've almost settled on TOG now...for this week anyway LOL

Thanks for breaking it down and putting it in writing. Indeed helpful.

 

Now...if I do TOG, what shall I do for science??

You don't have to answer that..I was just rambling ;)

[farmwife]

I think that's great that you are trying to compare costs, but leaving out the books is really not giving anyone a full picture of the cost comparison, the books are really the beef of both programs.

 

Also, you included kindergarten and 1st grade in your MFW expenses and I'm really not sure why because that is primarily teaching the child phonics, math, bible, science and some music and art. From what I understand History is not taught in K or 1st because you are to include them into the rotation with your older children.

 

Just curious why you thought you should add those costs in also? :confused: If you are going to add those into MFW, I think you should add in a separate phonics program and math program for TOG for those younger ones (not to mention science, bible, art and music!).

 

I'm sorry I don't feel this is an accurate comparison. :) I realize that this may help some people justify their TOG purchase but that's where I worry that it may mislead people into believing that if they take the expenses and divide it by 4 then somehow it is worthwhile.

 

Perhaps we should also be looking at the fact that there is a rather high drop-out (or choosing not to continue;)) rate with TOG. I know there are some MFW drop-outs also but considering the fact that you aren't outlaying SO much $$$ initially I feel it is taking a much smaller risk when purchasing a much less expensive curriculum.

 

Just some thought I had to help muddle the water more. It's just not as easy as it looks to make a cost comparison.

[WTMindy]

How is the MFW resale value? One thing that I think about when I purchase the TOG books is the resale value. I try and find all the books I want used and then I can turn around and sell them for about the same price when I'm done. It takes effort to track down the books I need, but it does save me money in the long run!

[Prairie~Phlox]

It's really like trying to compare apples to oranges.

[Melissa in CA]

I have personally never used MFW. I have requested their catalog and receive one each year, but for some reason it does not inspire me. I just look through it and think..."blah."

 

For one thing, I like to pick and choose my own Art and Science. I do not care for the ones MFW include in their packages. I do not want a "book basket" either. I want actual literature books chosen for me that are known to be great books and then scheduled out weekly. I don't just want a list of possible choices. We have used and do not like Writing Strands, Progeny Press Guides, Saxon Math, or Apologia's high school sciences. Clearly MFW is not for us.

 

I want literature worksheets, Socratic questions, evaluation resources, and an integrated writing program so that what is assigned is perfectly on target with what we are studying in our history. In short, everything I want in a history, lit, worldview, geography, and writing curriculum, TOG has. It is worth any extra expense to me.

 

If the best resource for my schooling objectives and teaching style is more expensive than something I feel would be inferior...I will pay the extra money even if I have to sell everything I have to do it. I only get one shot at schooling my son, so I am going to choose what I feel is most beneficial for him. Cost never really factors in to my school decisions. :confused: And believe me...we are not rich! I am a stay at home mom and my husband a county worker. Rich, in American standards, is not us by any stretch of the imagination (In Global standards we are very blessed and quite rich...this I know).

 

Anyhow, I am not posting this to dissuade anyone from MFW, or to say that TOG is superior. I just think that if you are only concerned about the cost of a curriculum, that perhaps your focus is on the wrong thing. :blink: It shouldn't be how to get the job done at the least cost, but how to get the job done with the best results. For me that is TOG. For others it will be MFW, SL, VP, etc.

 

I realize that many do not have the monetary resources available to them and must buy what they can afford and I understand that completely. But, lets be honest, there are many who do have the resources, want to buy a certain curriculum, but love their money more. Don't get me wrong, I am all for being frugal and a good steward of money. I rarely buy new unless I have too. But, almost any curriculum you want can be found used, or if bought new, can be sold the following year.

 

In the end, I say if you have the money, then buy what you truly feel is best for your family, not what is going to save you a few bucks.

 

My very biased, personal opinions of course...take them with a grain of salt. ;)

[bethben]

I want literature worksheets, Socratic questions, evaluation resources, and an integrated writing program so that what is assigned is perfectly on target with what we are studying in our history. In short, everything I want in a history, lit, worldview, geography, and writing curriculum, TOG has. It is worth any extra expense to me.

 

I agree- the two programs do appeal to different people for different reasons. I just wanted to make the comparison in case someone was really wanting to do TOG, but felt the cost was too high. I just wanted to compare for those who are considering both based on cost. We aren't basing it on cost either, but when I looked at the K-12 cost of both programs, it really made me realize my desire to do TOG really isn't that bad cost wise when compared to another program I really like.

 

Beth

[Donna A.]

TOG on the other hand includes literature and writing which MFW supplements with Writing Strands and Progony Press guides in 7th-8th grade.

Actually, Writing Strands is the instructional tool that MFW recommends, which is a separate purchase, just as Writing Aids is the instructional tool that TOG recommends, which is also a separate purchase. So it's not quite accurate to say that TOG "includes" literature and writing but MFW doesn't. With both programs, you have to buy the recommended instructional tool.

 

Additionally, for TOG to actually "include" literature, you'd have to buy the books, but you don't have the books included in the price. So again, it's unfair to say that TOG "includes" literature in your price comparison, but to add it as a separate purchase for MFW. MFW also includes books for literature study... if you're taking the full package price into account, that is.

 

On re-sale value, there are a LOT of families who don't resell their MFW materials at all. I don't plan to. In fact, there are literally thousands of MFW users that simply don't post on HS message boards. I think that's one reason TOG "seems" to be more popular.... they're "visible" on the internet, but the MFW users aren't.

 

Honestly, I think the biggest differences between MFW and TOG are that TOG users are primarily looking for a classical education, where MFW users are primarily looking for strong biblical integration and more of a Charlotte Mason flavor.... (and I realize that's a very broad generalization).

[MommyX8]

If you go through TOG and buy the books that are used for more than 3 weeks, it is BIG BUCKS. I still have boxes of Y2 books that we never used because I sold my TOG and most are not called for in any other curriculum.

 

I buy my books since we live far from the public library and I just don't have enough time in the day to keep up with that many books (and their fines).

 

Granted, MFW for EX-1850 did cost around $600 as well.

[Donna A.]

I buy my books since we live far from the public library and I just don't have enough time in the day to keep up with that many books (and their fines).

 

Granted, MFW for EX-1850 did cost around $600 as well.

 

 

Well, the Deluxe package for EX1850 is only $380, and that includes all core and enrichment subjects... well, minus your own math and grammar, I guess. But I assume that would be additional with TOG, as well?

 

And yes, if you're not using the library and buying all your *extra* books (besides those included in the lesson plans), you could end up spending a lot of money. That's true no matter what curriculum you use.

[cbollin]

There is one other factor involved that didn’t seem accounted for while comparing these apples to oranges of 2 really wonderful programs that fit the needs of different families.

 

From what I’ve understood from experienced and happy TOG users, with TOG you still have some planning to do and selecting things each week. With MFW --- all of the lesson planning is done for you. That seems to be what is said by those who are happily using each program and among the many reasons why one fits or doesn’t fit.

 

If Beth’s bottom line numbers have some close enough factor to them for discussion purposes, then that means that over K-12 (13 school years) the costs that she compared means MFW is about $443 more compared to buying TOG. But like the others have said, I’m not sure it is a comparison that shows all factors involved.

 

 

$443 over the 13 years-- that’s right at $34 per year. That’s $1 per week (34 school weeks of lessons in MFW) and I have no extra planning to do and it covers the planning for many subjects that are not included in the other good program.

 

That’s a service and price that *I* am most definitely willing to pay for a program that I want to use.

 

The MFW teacher’s manuals have been great for lesson planning, built in record keeping and have been a great fit. Your mileage may vary.

 

-crystal

[mommaduck]

Just have to jump in and say ditto to what has already been stated. I've used both programs. The information in TOG is wonderful...but for us, the planning and inclusion of the books in the packages of MFW is near priceless.

[BranchOfWisdom]

Actually, Writing Strands is the instructional tool that MFW recommends, which is a separate purchase, just as Writing Aids is the instructional tool that TOG recommends, which is also a separate purchase. So it's not quite accurate to say that TOG "includes" literature and writing but MFW doesn't. With both programs, you have to buy the recommended instructional tool.

 

Additionally, for TOG to actually "include" literature, you'd have to buy the books, but you don't have the books included in the price. So again, it's unfair to say that TOG "includes" literature in your price comparison, but to add it as a separate purchase for MFW. MFW also includes books for literature study... if you're taking the full package price into account, that is.

 

On re-sale value, there are a LOT of families who don't resell their MFW materials at all. I don't plan to. In fact, there are literally thousands of MFW users that simply don't post on HS message boards. I think that's one reason TOG "seems" to be more popular.... they're "visible" on the internet, but the MFW users aren't.

 

Honestly, I think the biggest differences between MFW and TOG are that TOG users are primarily looking for a classical education, where MFW users are primarily looking for strong biblical integration and more of a Charlotte Mason flavor.... (and I realize that's a very broad generalization).

 

I agree. I do NOT plan to resell my materials. I also feel the main emphasis for my decision process was the the Charlotte Mason flavor of the program. I don't think I could put a price tag on the benefit of the well-laid out lesson plans and teacher's notes. I am a planner by nature...LOVE to write out lessons, etc...but with this already done for me, it has allowed me to enjoy learning with my children more, and offered the flexibility for me to go ahead and change or add as I like without a lot of planning on my end.

 

It's difficult to compare the two without really breaking down the costs of individual books and the packages that offer discounts.

 

I think it's just a matter of choice. Both curricula have a lot to offer and each family has to decide what is the better fit.

[vlshort]

I used MFW ECC this past year. This next year I will be using TOG year 1. I agree with those that are saying it's like comparing apples to oranges.

 

MFW primarily provides the books and a schedule for getting through the material. There's really not much support in how to think about the material, analyze it, etc. At least not in the ECC curriculum.

 

TOG on the other hand has a lot of info to help you analyze the info you've read. Thinking questions, comparison charts, venn diagrams, etc.

 

My MFW ECC TM came in a spiral bound volume about 3/4 of an inch thick. My TOG Year 1 is in four 2-inch binders.

 

I really think simply comparing price isn't an accurate comparison. You have to look at what you want out of the curriculum, and whether it will serve your needs. I'll be glad to answer any specific questions from anyone - vanessa_short@comcast.net.

 

Blessings,

Vanessa

[FordFamily]

 

 

Honestly, I think the biggest differences between MFW and TOG are that TOG users are primarily looking for a classical education, where MFW users are primarily looking for strong biblical integration and more of a Charlotte Mason flavor.... (and I realize that's a very broad generalization).

 

 

That is an excellent point...

[Donna A.]

Well, since this thread was brought out of the woodwork after several months....

 

My MFW ECC TM came in a spiral bound volume about 3/4 of an inch thick. My TOG Year 1 is in four 2-inch binders.

Back to apples and oranges.... ECC was written for an entirely different purpose than TOG.

 

MFW primarily provides the books and a schedule for getting through the material. There's really not much support in how to think about the material, analyze it, etc. At least not in the ECC curriculum.

Have you ever used any of their *history* years? Again... apples and oranges. Any thinking and analyzing done in ECC is meant to be done through prayer for the spread of the Gospel and the many people in many lands who need Christ. ECC is a program that speaks to the *heart*, not the intellect.

 

But you're right, the author of MFW doesn't tell us what to think. She gives us the information, with many, many optional resources in the Book Basket list, and then leaves interpretation to us parents. I like it that way, because I don't want someone else interpreting doctrine for me. ;)

[shanvan]

But you're right, the author of MFW doesn't tell us what to think. She gives us the information, with many, many optional resources in the Book Basket list, and then leaves interpretation to us parents. I like it that way, because I don't want someone else interpreting doctrine for me. ;)

 

Thank you. I am still making my decisions for next year and wondered if anyone had these sorts of thoughts about TOG. I keep thinking I need all their analysis and discussion. (Even though I am very good at this naturally) But as a parent I should really be able to use the light of scripture to interpret what we are reading and discussing and be willing to let the Holy Spirit guide us....not a curriculum.

 

Still, I think we could use TOG and adapt to our own views, as we must do with any curriculum. But I won't know this for sure unless I have all the guides in front of me and try to use them. We are still considering all the options.

[razorbackmama]

Thank you. I am still making my decisions for next year and wondered if anyone had these sorts of thoughts about TOG. I keep thinking I need all their analysis and discussion. (Even though I am very good at this naturally) But as a parent I should really be able to use the light of scripture to interpret what we are reading and discussing and be willing to let the Holy Spirit guide us....not a curriculum.

 

In some ways the discussion was helpful and in others it wasn't. There were some times when there were questions in the Bible portion that said things like "explain to your student the significance of blah blah blah" (I sold my copies, so I can't go back and look for a specific example) and I had no clue what the significance of blah blah blah was, and TOG assumed that I already knew it.

 

We never made it to the D or R levels, so I never actually used the discussion questions for the history/literature, but in looking ahead, it looked over MY head (and I'm an intelligent person LOL) sometimes.

 

I've never thought about it before, but I just realized when I read your post and was thinking about it, that I always felt sort of like a dope when I read what I was supposed to discuss with the kids. I know that TOG says that many moms will learn right alongside their kids, and I did, but there were times when even I, as an adult, couldn't understand what was going on. And yet I was supposed to teach it to my kids.:confused:

 

If you are already good with analysis and discussion, then I wouldn't think it was necessary. I DO like their Socratic method, but that's easily learned elsewhere, and once I googled it and read more about it, I found that I could do it more naturally than going through their questions in TOG (what if one of my students gave the "wrong" answer, for example?).

[Chez J]

MFW primarily provides the books and a schedule for getting through the material. There's really not much support in how to think about the material, analyze it, etc. At least not in the ECC curriculum.

 

TOG on the other hand has a lot of info to help you analyze the info you've read. Thinking questions, comparison charts, venn diagrams, etc.

 

Blessings,

Vanessa

 

Thank you for this and from the others saying the same. I've been waffling back and forth - TOG or MFW. I think I really want the analytical tools of TOG. Really helped me decide.

 

Lesley

[cbollin]

Thank you for this and from the others saying the same. I've been waffling back and forth - TOG or MFW. I think I really want the analytical tools of TOG. Really helped me decide.

 

Lesley

 

 

well, MFW does provide the tools for that. Just because it isn't written as teacher's notes in the manuals, doesn't mean it is not part of the books themselves.

 

In earliest years, you do a lot of narration to make sure the concrete learners learn the concrete. Then in the next stage lots of the books have their own questions in them, right? So, why double up with more in the manual? I like the MFW keeps me from overteaching at each stage of life.

 

Plus at high school levels, when they really need to analyze it all, that is part of the MFW manual.

 

 

-crystal

[Donna A.]

well, MFW does provide the tools for that. Just because it isn't written as teacher's notes in the manuals, doesn't mean it is not part of the books themselves.

 

In earliest years, you do a lot of narration to make sure the concrete learners learn the concrete. Then in the next stage lots of the books have their own questions in them, right? So, why double up with more in the manual? I like the MFW keeps me from overteaching at each stage of life.

 

Plus at high school levels, when they really need to analyze it all, that is part of the MFW manual.

 

 

-crystal

 

Agree. Plus I keep wondering just how MUCH of man's wisdom do we need to know, anyway? :001_unsure: As a Christian, what are my goals for my children? What is our purpose in life, anyway? What AM I teaching my children? Is our intent to know the best of Socrates and Plutarch, or is it to know Godly wisdom and the fear of the Lord? What's the reason for knowing history?

[afruitfulbranch]

Agree. Plus I keep wondering just how MUCH of man's wisdom do we need to know, anyway? :001_unsure: As a Christian, what are my goals for my children? What is our purpose in life, anyway? What AM I teaching my children? Is our intent to know the best of Socrates and Plutarch, or is it to know Godly wisdom and the fear of the Lord? What's the reason for knowing history?

 

Thank you all for discussing this. I am glad that I stumbled on this thread. Reading your posts has helped me to see that MFW might be a good fit for my family. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and it sounds to me that MFW provides more of that. Would you all agree?

 

I just look through it and think..."blah."

... I do not want a "book basket" either. I want actual literature books chosen for me that are known to be great books and then scheduled out weekly. I don't just want a list of possible choices.

 

Also, I thought that the booklist list was a list of books specifically picked to enhance the curriculum and if not that they were at least reviewed by the writer's for content. Too many lists have questionable content in the recommended books. This is important to me because I just bought books this year to go with World History and I was shocked by the content in one of the books that I see on my booklists. (I will say that Children's Books had an * next to the book.) So, I am assuming that MFW lists "prescreened" books. Is that true?

[cbollin]

So, I am assuming that MFW lists "prescreened" books. Is that true?

 

Yes. MFW prescreens for content and makes heads up notes on books that are "ok" but might have a few cautions in some limited places. The author of MFW and her children read tons of books. Not all titles are put on the final list. They make notes in the manual about the books. Best of best get a little * next to them. Some notes will say not suited for youngest kids, or please preview such and such chapter to make sure it's ok for your family because it contains whatever...

 

The other question you bolded: Yeah, I think MFW provides that element of beginning with God's word.

 

-crystal

[angela in ohio]

What's the reason for knowing history?

 

Because God created and controlled it, and in knowing it we know Him more fully. :001_smile:

[HSmom25andRN]

And it cost me a fortune. I had to buy a LOT of books because they just weren't available through our library (and we have a pretty good library system) Angela

[Cornerstone Classical]

Thank you all for discussing this. I am glad that I stumbled on this thread. Reading your posts has helped me to see that MFW might be a good fit for my family. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and it sounds to me that MFW provides more of that. Would you all agree?

 

Kinda funny, we just completed week 2 of MFW 1st.

 

The memory verse for this week was Proverbs 9:10

 

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge from the Holy One is understanding;).

[Donna A.]

Kinda funny, we just completed week 2 of MFW 1st.

 

The memory verse for this week was Proverbs 9:10

 

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge from the Holy One is understanding;).

 

Ha! :lol:

[afruitfulbranch]

Ha! :001_smile: That was my response too! Thanks, ladies!

[Donna A.]

Ha! :001_smile: That was my response too! Thanks, ladies!

 

Just have to say... the verse in your siggy is our homeschool name: John 15:5 Academy. ;)