lorisuewho Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I loved Explode the Code when we started with it at the beginning of the year. I really feel it worked for us. But now we are in book 5, and it is the same format over and over still. Plus, my son is always coming up with crazy reasoning on the yes or no questions, that make it impossible for me to know whether he understood them or not without hearing him read each one. It is starting to look like busy work and less like learning work, IYKWIM. I need permission to quit ETC. :001_smile: We are doing Climbing to Good English which has some phonics, and I'll be starting either Writing Road to Reading or Logic of English later this summer. He currently reads at about a first grade level IMO. He is just starting to be able to read books like Frog and Toad and Little Bear with no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 You have my permission!;) My ds did books 3-5 and then we dropped it. He had already gone all the way through PP and was reading very well. It began to feel like busy work for me too partly into book 5. My dd started with book 1 and is now partly into book 3. She loves them so I bought book 4, but not sure if I will get more after that. She is also using PP, so it is really a supplement for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 ETC was one of the many programs I tried to use with my son that never worked. It seemed really slow, had a LOT of books I'd have to buy and my son never retained anything from it anyway. Granted, he has some undiagnosed issues and it wans't until we got Dancing Bears that something worked but I wasn't impressed by ETC. You have my permission to quit. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalmiBorn Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 My K'er is only in book 2 since we have done other phonics too but the problem with his answer to questions is the same here. I do have him read outloud then tell me his answer. Sometimes his thought process just cracks me up! I guess, for me, the answer doesn't matter so much as the reading. Do you use anything else along with ETC? If so, could you just slow down and use it for reinforcement. He might enjoy VP First Favorites or quides by MP for those early readers like Frog and Toad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iafrmgrl77 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 We still love ETC here, but the minute it stops doing us any good, we are done! This precious time is too short to have our children doing busy work! Does he enjoy ETC? If so, you could use it as extra activity pages for when he has completed his other work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorisuewho Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 You have my permission!;) My ds did books 3-5 and then we dropped it. He had already gone all the way through PP and was reading very well. It began to feel like busy work for me too partly into book 5. My dd started with book 1 and is now partly into book 3. She loves them so I bought book 4, but not sure if I will get more after that. She is also using PP, so it is really a supplement for us. Glad I'm not alone! We did Phonics Pathways too :001_smile: You have my permission to quit. :) Thank you! My K'er is only in book 2 since we have done other phonics too but the problem with his answer to questions is the same here. I do have him read outloud then tell me his answer. Sometimes his thought process just cracks me up! I guess, for me, the answer doesn't matter so much as the reading. Do you use anything else along with ETC? If so, could you just slow down and use it for reinforcement. He might enjoy VP First Favorites or quides by MP for those early readers like Frog and Toad. Great suggestion. We are actually going to be doing MP first grade next year. Yes, the crazy reasoning on the questions IS funny and I agree being able to read the question is the entire point of the exercise. I just wish he would answer normally so I could check it off fast some days ;) We still love ETC here, but the minute it stops doing us any good, we are done! This precious time is too short to have our children doing busy work! Does he enjoy ETC? If so, you could use it as extra activity pages for when he has completed his other work. He's tiring of ETC also. I agree that time is too short to be doing busy work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 My K'er is only in book 2 since we have done other phonics too but the problem with his answer to questions is the same here. I do have him read outloud then tell me his answer. Sometimes his thought process just cracks me up! I guess, for me, the answer doesn't matter so much as the reading. Do you use anything else along with ETC? If so, could you just slow down and use it for reinforcement. He might enjoy VP First Favorites or quides by MP for those early readers like Frog and Toad. My dd has amazing reasoning too and she can almost convince me sometimes of her answers which I know are not the ones they are asking for, but she thinks outside the box. I really don't care how she answers them as long as she can read them right.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 My kids crack me up in their answers to the yes/no questions. Many of them don't have obvious answers anyway. And it's funny to hear their explanations. We're finishing it up. One ds is one lesson away from finishing 5 and the other is a couple lessons from finishing 7. I will add that they do change in book 7 - there are paragraph stories to read and answer questions about, a page that encourages kids to see root words, prefixes and suffixes and occasional crossword puzzles. But if you want to quit, then quit. It's not a be all end all program. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitterpatter Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 My DD likes to have solid yeses or nos down the page, so after the first two or three form a pattern, she comes up with all kinds of creative reasoning to keep the answers in the column she wants that day. :tongue_smilie: I too am considering whether to keep going after we finish book two. I had her complete all of the writing in book one and that zapped the fun out of it for her. She was doing four pages per day. At that time, we used it for review after HOP: K. Once we started HOP: 1 alongside ETC 2, it really was too much. So, now we do two-three pages per day and I only have her complete the writing portion for the last page of each chapter...the spelling words page. I recently purchased All About Spelling, so ETC may have to go. I'd be fine with that, I think. Still deciding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atozmom Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Jump ship! We were also on book 5 and decided to abandon ship. It was just getting too redundant. We will be starting LOE in the fall. Until then, he is just going to do a lot of reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 My DS does the same crazy reasoning on the yes/no questions! We're finishing book 6. We are only using it as review and only because he likes it. I don't care about it. I'm going to let him do the last two on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Often a curriculum we love at the beginning doesn't suit later on. Sometimes the curriculum changes when the child hasn't. Sometimes the child changes and the curriculum doesn't. Sometimes we merely need to do some lessons over as review, until the child catches up. Or supplement with something else. And then the child will match up again. On the other hand, we can skip some lessons, and match the child back up that way, if we are having the opposite problem. Other times, it's like there is a fork in the road. The curriculum is going one way, and the child the other. It's easier to pick a curriculum at the beginning. Often students all start out at the same place. The further you get along, the more likely you will need to jump ship. That is one of the reasons I am so excited about CGE. I'm working through my 4th workbook and it's still perfect. And I own the rest of the series and have skimmed ahead and foresee no problems. BUT...I see how this curriculum would be a complete mismatch for others. Trust yourself. I've seen you, to be nothing but wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I was thinking about this some more... I know most people don't finish the series, but I feel like books 7 and 8 are actually really worthwhile, at least for us. We used the whole series for phonics review. It fills a funny niche. Ds just covered a bunch of silent letters in book 7. Even though we had covered this before, it was probably nearly two years ago, when he was 5 yo. He can read the words, but he needed to have it explicitly taught again. Yet, he's not ready to be required to spell words with silent letters correctly for the most part yet - his spelling isn't there yet. But this is filling the gap, reminding, reteaching. And I like that it's introducing some reading comprehension and root words and so forth as those are things we don't do so explicitly. It may be that not every kid needs it, I just wanted to advocate that the series does advance. I was also feeling like we were just trudging through book 6, but book 7 has been much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bmom Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 You can quit! We did. DS was not into it anymore and his retention started going as his desire to do the work waned. We moved to Queens Lang. Lessons and his love of reading is back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nov05mama Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 If it had been only my choice, I probably would have quit before we started book 5. He does them completely on his own and they have always been just a review for him. He LOVES them though. He asked me to continue with the rest of the books this coming year, so we will finish through book 8. He thinks the questions are hilarious, which is why he likes them so much I think ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicMom Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I totally hear ya. My oldest did books 1 - 4 and then it started feeling like he was spending more time figuring out what the pictures were supposed to be than making progress with reading. He was getting burnt out and I totally understood. It did us good to quit and move on to actually reading more and practicing with fluency. I will have to look up those other programs you mentioned. I STILL can't figure out my "keeper" for phonics/English. But I've never heard of the ones you mentioned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollyh Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 We are finishing book 2. She has never enjoyed it, it has always seemed like busywork for her... and it only now has dawned on me to quit it. :001_huh: I don't think it has provided much learning for her (we only did the workbook, not the lessons from the TM). I think sometimes we, as teachers, forget to give ourselves freedom to change our minds/choices on the curriculum we choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorisuewho Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 My DD likes to have solid yeses or nos down the page, so after the first two or three form a pattern, she comes up with all kinds of creative reasoning to keep the answers in the column she wants that day. :tongue_smilie: . I'm not alone! Jump ship! We were also on book 5 and decided to abandon ship. It was just getting too redundant. We will be starting LOE in the fall. Until then, he is just going to do a lot of reading. Sounds like an excellent plan! My DS does the same crazy reasoning on the yes/no questions! We're finishing book 6. We are only using it as review and only because he likes it. I don't care about it. I'm going to let him do the last two on his own. I can't believe how many children just enjoy the crazy reasoning! I thought I was alone! It's easier to pick a curriculum at the beginning. Often students all start out at the same place. The further you get along, the more likely you will need to jump ship. That is one of the reasons I am so excited about CGE. I'm working through my 4th workbook and it's still perfect. And I own the rest of the series and have skimmed ahead and foresee no problems. BUT...I see how this curriculum would be a complete mismatch for others. Trust yourself. I've seen you, to be nothing but wise. Thank you. And thank you for your wisdom! We started CGE yesterday, and I really feel this is a much better match than what I had been doing. I was thinking about this some more... I know most people don't finish the series, but I feel like books 7 and 8 are actually really worthwhile, at least for us. We used the whole series for phonics review. It fills a funny niche. Ds just covered a bunch of silent letters in book 7. Even though we had covered this before, it was probably nearly two years ago, when he was 5 yo. He can read the words, but he needed to have it explicitly taught again. Yet, he's not ready to be required to spell words with silent letters correctly for the most part yet - his spelling isn't there yet. But this is filling the gap, reminding, reteaching. And I like that it's introducing some reading comprehension and root words and so forth as those are things we don't do so explicitly. It may be that not every kid needs it, I just wanted to advocate that the series does advance. I was also feeling like we were just trudging through book 6, but book 7 has been much better. This is really good to know. I have been thinking about this post all day. I really think we just need to stop ETC now, but take another look at it in a few months. Good to know book 7 changes it up! You can quit! We did. DS was not into it anymore and his retention started going as his desire to do the work waned. We moved to Queens Lang. Lessons and his love of reading is back. Glad you found something that worked better for you! He thinks the questions are hilarious, which is why he likes them so much I think ;) My son would agree! I totally hear ya. My oldest did books 1 - 4 and then it started feeling like he was spending more time figuring out what the pictures were supposed to be than making progress with reading. He was getting burnt out and I totally understood. It did us good to quit and move on to actually reading more and practicing with fluency. I will have to look up those other programs you mentioned. I STILL can't figure out my "keeper" for phonics/English. But I've never heard of the ones you mentioned! Good luck in your quest to find a keeper curriculum! I think I'm getting closer! We are finishing book 2. She has never enjoyed it, it has always seemed like busywork for her... and it only now has dawned on me to quit it. :001_huh: I don't think it has provided much learning for her (we only did the workbook, not the lessons from the TM). I think sometimes we, as teachers, forget to give ourselves freedom to change our minds/choices on the curriculum we choose. Well, quitting feels like. . .quitting. That's why I don't like to do it :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I have sometimes been able to rejoing a curriculum later on after taking a break to supplement, or occasionally I have entirely skipped the middle and used something else, but effortlessly rejoined for the end. Try and figure out what your goals and priorities are. Then see if the curriculum has the same goals and priorities. Then see if the curriculum is capable of meeting its own goals, never mind yours. I often hop around so much because my goals are not typical goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atozmom Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) That is one of the reasons I am so excited about CGE. I'm working through my 4th workbook and it's still perfect. And I own the rest of the series and have skimmed ahead and foresee no problems. BUT...I see how this curriculum would be a complete mismatch for others. Just a quick question about CGE. Is it a comprehensive program that stands on its own? I have heard a few reviews that it was only meant to supplement another grammar program. :confused: We will be taking the relaxed approach still next year utilizing the grammar that is in LOE and including grammar in our writing too. However, I will be looking for grammar when we finish LOE. I had thought I would use JAG with ds, but I really don't think it will be a good fit for him. ETA: Sorry Lori!!! I just realized I was hijacking your thread. :leaving: Edited May 11, 2012 by atozmom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 i felt the same way. i used it with my daughter (through book 6..ugh), but i'm really not sure how valuable it was at all for her. i didn't use it with my son at all. i have no regrets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorisuewho Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 Try and figure out what your goals and priorities are. Then see if the curriculum has the same goals and priorities. Then see if the curriculum is capable of meeting its own goals, never mind yours. QUOTE] This is excellent advice. Thank you. Just a quick question about CGE. Is it a comprehensive program that stands on its own? I have heard a few reviews that it was only meant to supplement another grammar program. :confused: We will be taking the relaxed approach still next year utilizing the grammar that is in LOE and including grammar in our writing too. However, I will be looking for grammar when we finish LOE. I had thought I would use JAG with ds, but I really don't think it will be a good fit for him. ETA: Sorry Lori!!! I just realized I was hijacking your thread. :leaving: No worries about the hijack. I don't mind at all. I just started CGE so I'm not the best to answer the question. I have Climbing to Good English 1 and 2 in my possession. So far, not much official grammar. It is more like writing full sentences, using proper punctuation, and some phonics. The second book, looks like quite enough grammar to me. . .covers the same things I saw in Rod and Staff English 2. i felt the same way. i used it with my daughter (through book 6..ugh), but i'm really not sure how valuable it was at all for her. i didn't use it with my son at all. i have no regrets. I like the part where you don't have regrets about not using it at all. I have more children coming up through where I will need to make decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 We are just finishing up Book 4 and about to start Book 5, and I am trying to decide if I want to continue or stop after Book 5 (which I already have). We are doing AAS so he will get the phonics rules and we are doing a Spectrum Reading Comprehension workbook, so that's covered. Other than that my son can do ETC almost completely independently, is there really any reason to continue? His CAT test results showed a 5th grade Reading Comprehension level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) Just a quick question about CGE. Is it a comprehensive program that stands on its own? I have heard a few reviews that it was only meant to supplement another grammar program. I'm not sure where you heard that :-0 Climbing to Good English is definitely a stand alone curriculum. In the earlier grades I think there are 180 lessons. In the middle grades there are 36x3(108) lessons, with supplemental worksheet drill for the other 72 lessons. Grades 5&6 and grades 7&8 were written to be taught together with the older grade having more difficult and longer assignments. It was designed to be used in a one room school house, by an inexperienced teacher. Priorities covered are the priorities of the rural Amish. There is a big emphasis on the handwritten letter. Composition is taught to be handwritten, so the instructions are different than curricula that are expecting a student to be able to type and move around text. The research reports focus more on organization than plagiarism. There is little focus on persuasive writing, an the Amish don't prize the ability to argue. It's definitely written to be stand alone, but... as we are talking about with ETC if it doesn't meet YOUR priotrities it's not going to stand alone or work well for YOU. But at least CGE meets it's OWN goals and does what it says it will do. I was thinking last night. We could be using the all time best crawling curriculum, but if our child started to walk early, we might need to quit the crawling curriculum. And if that curriculum later on covered running, and our child was now running, maybe we would rejoin up with it. Maybe we would need to purchase the crawling and walking books we skipped and quickly skim them to cover anything we missed. But maybe we should let the child get up off the floor and onto his feet, instead of keeping him on his knees till the book says he can get up :-0 Sometimes it's not quitting, when we are making room for something else more efficient. And walking is more efficient than continuing to crawl. I don't even know what ETC is. That's why I clicked on this thread :-) But...I was just thinking about this analogy last night. Edited May 11, 2012 by Hunter math Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalliemorgan Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I was religiously making my son do every page at first. Then he started to read beyond what they were trying to teach. It appeared to be a waste of time. So I mostly use them now for if he seems to be need extra practice, I look in the front of the books for what he needs, and we will do a few pages of practice. I plan on using the same books for my other two girls, because now they are barely used. Don't make my mistake and feel you need to do every page! If they get it - they get it. Move on. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorisuewho Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 I was thinking last night. We could be using the all time best crawling curriculum, but if our child started to walk early, we might need to quit the crawling curriculum. And if that curriculum later on covered running, and our child was now running, maybe we would rejoin up with it. Maybe we would need to purchase the crawling and walking books we skipped and quickly skim them to cover anything we missed. But maybe we should let the child get up off the floor and onto his feet, instead of keeping him on his knees till the book says he can get up :-0 Sometimes it's not quitting, when we are making room for something else more efficient. And walking is more efficient than continuing to crawl. Great analogy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalliemorgan Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I was thinking last night. We could be using the all time best crawling curriculum, but if our child started to walk early, we might need to quit the crawling curriculum. And if that curriculum later on covered running, and our child was now running, maybe we would rejoin up with it. Maybe we would need to purchase the crawling and walking books we skipped and quickly skim them to cover anything we missed. But maybe we should let the child get up off the floor and onto his feet, instead of keeping him on his knees till the book says he can get up :-0 Sometimes it's not quitting, when we are making room for something else more efficient. And walking is more efficient than continuing to crawl. Beautiful! :agree: Boy, if I won't reflect on that analogy over and over...thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atozmom Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I'm not sure where you heard that :-0 Climbing to Good English is definitely a stand alone curriculum. In the earlier grades I think there are 180 lessons. In the middle grades there are 36x3(108) lessons, with supplemental worksheet drill for the other 72 lessons. Hmmm....maybe I am thinking of another program I was looking into? :confused: Just for curiosity now I will have to see if I can find the reviews. :tongue_smilie: It's great to hear that it is a stand alone curriculum! I am hoping that our R&S vendor at the convention will have some available to look at. I'm not sure that I remember anything but R&S there though. Maybe Rainbow Resource will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyBC Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Both my boys drew 'maybe' boxes on those pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeeterbug Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Funny, we are also in Book 5 and it is starting to feel like busy work. Maybe because Book 4 required more thought. We do two pages each day, it's one of the things we start with. Often I give him that and his handwriting book to work on while I look over the day's math lesson. It doesn't take much time, and I like that it reinforces what he's learning in AAS. And he enjoys the yes/no questions as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorisuewho Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 Both my boys drew 'maybe' boxes on those pages. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Hmmm....maybe I am thinking of another program I was looking into? :confused: Just for curiosity now I will have to see if I can find the reviews. :tongue_smilie: It's great to hear that it is a stand alone curriculum! I am hoping that our R&S vendor at the convention will have some available to look at. I'm not sure that I remember anything but R&S there though. Maybe Rainbow Resource will. CGE was definitely written to be used as a stand alone curriculum. But if someone was planning a typical classical curriculum, they might have felt the need to supplement some persuasive writing, as the ultimate goal of Greek composition is the ability to argue a law. Since producing students who can argue well, is fairly low on my priority list, I'm just fine with the time that would have been devoted to argument, being spent on the friendly letter and outlining. When our goals are out of line with the goals of a curriculum, is when we are forced to tweak the most. And my biggest pet peeve is when a curriculum doesn't meet it's OWN goals, and that happens WAY more often than I sometimes can even believe. So far CGE seems to meet it's own goals admirably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloggermom Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 You have permission to quit it and find something that works better for you! Don't beat yourself up over Explode the Code (ETC), simply go with something like Phonics Pathways: Clear Steps to Easy Reading and Perfect Spelling and Phonics Pathways Boosters!: Fun Games and Teaching Aids to Jump-Start Reading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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