Walking-Iris Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 i have a friend who says again and again that I would like this. I've looked at a sample and I've looked over the website in the past and I pretty much wasn't feeling it. I've been researching the writing subject a little bit these past couple months because what we were using just wasn't getting done--- Writing Strands by itself. So i added WWE this year (just got the text) and I think I really like it and my ds seems to be responding to it. So I want to do WWE/WS together. But I still have a niggling feeling that it's not enough. I've looked at Classical Writing, Writing Tales, IEW--and I've completely ruled those out. I've looked at Winning With Writing but didn't want to add another workbook type "thing" if you understand what I mean. I think EPS Writing Skill sand The Paragraph Books could possibly make good supplements. So that brings me back to BraveWriter. I just don't understand it. It's pretty expensive---90 something for a spiral binder right? But I can't figure out what you get in that spiral binder---especially for that price. It seems that it can be used from about 9 years old to high school? I'm not sure I have that right. And i can't make heads or tales about all the extra online classes/newsletters/ebooks etc. Arrow and whatnot? Do you have to subscribe to the website or but online materials? Or are those just extras and the spiral book The Writer's Jungle all that you would essentially need? Have I even got that right? Is The Writer's Jungle and BraveWriter two different books? And what is in that binder? From what I can tell from reading the website---it seems to be a very expensive teacher's manual. Are there assignments? Student worksheets/activities? I'm somewhat interested, but at that price I'm not chunking down that money without clearing up some confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagira Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I'm not sure what it is about either. I keep seeing it's Charlotte Mason style. I have the Arrow for Encyclopedia Brown, which is all dictation passages. I don't know if that's the extent of it or I just received a free sample. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo2 Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I don't know the answers to your questions, as I have never seen it, but it is frequently (and right now) 50% off on HSBC. https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/index.php?option=com_hsbc_epp_order&Itemid=1510&c=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto2Cs Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Some past threads for you... http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=364703&highlight=Bravewriter+Brave+Writer http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355539&highlight=Bravewriter+Brave+Writer http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=353201&highlight=Bravewriter+Brave+Writer http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=331268&highlight=Bravewriter+Brave+Writer http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266551&highlight=Bravewriter+Brave+Writer http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240216 Plus a great blog post about it... http://farrarwilliams.wordpress.com/2012/04/01/hallelujah-i-found-a-language-arts-program-i-actually-like/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iafrmgrl77 Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Thank you for all of those links, momto2Cs! I came here today specifically looking for info on BW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I bought it at HSBC during one of their group buys, and while I feel The Writer's Jungle is worth what I paid for it there, IMHO it's very overpriced when not on sale. It is very inspirational reading for me as teacher but it is so "big picture" that I haven't really figured out how to implement it. It's more of a philosophy than an actual structured learn-to-write program like the other ones you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking-Iris Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 I bought it at HSBC during one of their group buys, and while I feel The Writer's Jungle is worth what I paid for it there, IMHO it's very overpriced when not on sale. It is very inspirational reading for me as teacher but it is so "big picture" that I haven't really figured out how to implement it. It's more of a philosophy than an actual structured learn-to-write program like the other ones you mentioned. That's essentially why I keep looking at it and then moving on. I think I would like the "philosophy" just from what I've seen on the website, but that's a steep price for an inspirational read. And even on sale I can't justify spending that much for an ebook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto2blessings Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I loved reading Bravewriter. But it wasn't concrete enough for me to pull off. We hardly did any writing that year:( I don't know if this is much help, but I'm putting together my own plan now. Something like: 2nd/3rd PLL 4th-6th ILL/Writing Tales 7th/8th Write With the Best (LOVE this...CM style) After this, I'm not sure of the sequence (dd is in 6th). But I want to do a year of Language Lessons From Lord of the Rings, maybe a year or two of Lost Tools of Writing. And Epi Kardia's Research Paper and Speech programs. And lots of essays on topics were studying in high school. HTH some:) Gina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarlaS Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I think she should publish Writer's Jungle and Help for High School as a trade paperback books for about $20 - 30 and be done with it. Then more people would buy it and put the savings toward signing their kids up for her online classes--which must be a much better money maker for her. It's what I would do if I hadn't already spent $$ on the e-books. I felt like an idiot buying a 260 page e-book about writing (in which the first thing she does is plug her writing classes)--and I did get a steep discount from the HSBC. Now I feel like since I bought those, I should not spend more on this product by signing my kids up for the classes. Which is too bad because I have three of them still schooling. That could be a lot of classes if I didn't already feel invested in a plan that is supposed to guide ME on the path to teaching them. At least I know to avoid anything anyone refers to as Charlotte Mason in style. Not my cuppa. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarlaS Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I'm not sure what it is about either. I keep seeing it's Charlotte Mason style. I have the Arrow for Encyclopedia Brown, which is all dictation passages. I don't know if that's the extent of it or I just received a free sample. Yeah. That's another thing. I bought a bunch of those, and while I may someday use them, it's doubtful. It really is just dictation passages and a little info on why she chose them. I get the feeling anyone who understands how dictation works, and why you would be looking for certain types of passages (examples of personification etc) would not be wanting to pay for someone to choose them for them. I bought a bunch of those too. I'm a sucker. What can I say... :blush: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyfulhomeschooler Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Have not used it yet, but I like the literary elements in the arrows I bought and can't see myself being able to plan that part on my own. Maybe with some guidance I could... but the price doesn't make it justifiable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephanie/MO Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 My son took the Bravewriter Class for the SAT writing 4-5 years ago. My hope is that that particular class was not prepared for writing (some 7th graders, etc. not ready for timed writing. But this class was sorely disappointing at $150. She had kids peer edit and the comments were "great work", "liked your topic". The good point was that the kids could read each other's papers and she did have some great points to offer. However I have yet to find an on-line writing course that works for writing.I also bought the book and found it better than this particular class. Blessings, Stephanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking-Iris Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 Well after those last few posts I'm really starting to doubt if this is even necessary. Another writing "program" to chuck. Hmm what's next on the list? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommamia Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I find The Writer's Jungle very refreshing and encouraging. Any interest my dc had in writing was getting destroyed by all the formulaic writing curriculums. BW seems to approach it in a different way, but I still see a routine or pattern. If you join her yahoo group, she sends you a sort of schedule each day. I'm hoping BW will get their love of writing back:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammyw Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I think if someone is wanting a step-by-step guide, this isn't for you. I agree that it would be nice if the price were lower, but I still find it a good value. Before I read this, I was stressed about writing - whether my kid would learn to write, whether she'd be good at it, what if she didn't learn grammar, etc. Once I read it, I realized that I'd rather let it come more naturally, less forced. For me, that meant more focus on free and creative writing, less focus on the technical aspect. My daughter is an avid reader, and from that, she is really learning to be creative in her writing, but also surprisingly, she is learning the technical aspects. She knows how to spell really well (she spelled "a lot" correctly though we'd never gone over it; she knows to put commas in the right place most of the time, though again we've never gone over it). I also love The Arrow lessons. I find them full of much more than dictation passages though. Really, I see the dictation as just the smallest piece of it. I know the older versions weren't as good as the newer lessons (this year's lessons are all great IMO). I bought the year of lessons through HSBC for, I think, $39. Anyway, I find it to be a great value, but of course I can see why not everyone would. She does have a new program coming out, probably in the next week, called Jot It Down. I have a feeling this will be more interesting to those who want a more step-to-step program. It's apparently a full year writing program. I am definitely going to look at it as soon as it comes out. Sounds intriguing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iafrmgrl77 Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I think that after reading the bazillion threads on this program, I am going to stick with WWE and FLL (unless we switch to R&S), while adding in some of the concepts discussed. We will do poetry tea times, free-write Fridays, and just try to have more fun with our writing, while still getting the structure and instruction my children and I need. If I can ever get my hands on WJ without paying the hefty price, I am sure I will gain some valuable insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommamia Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Check the for sale boards. The other day someone had it listed for $40 or under. Also, I purchased the ebook, and then had it printed very cheaply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 It's by far the best book about teaching writing I've ever read... It's way overpriced and putting it in a binder is total nonsense, but I think the HSBC price for the PDF is worth it. I was just so relieved to have found something that resonated with me and gave me some ideas that it was definitely worth it for me. I think part of her point is that writing is so personal and individual that trying to work off an out of the box program is usually a mistake. We have to actually get down and dirty and teach it without a net. Then she tries to arm up your toolbox for doing so. Thanks for the shout out to my blog post, momto2cs... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Has anyone heard anything about Jot it Down, supposedly going to be published on the week of April 23? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammyw Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Has anyone heard anything about Jot it Down, supposedly going to be published on the week of April 23? Tweaking and finalizing apparently took longer than expected. She just posted on facebook that it is now done, and that she will be putting out a note tomorrow I believe. The message said it will be on sale for one week. I do wonder if it will be cheaper via HSBC, or when it might be offered there. I can't wait to see it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 I saw Jot it Down at the Richmond conference. She had the prototype. It was short - maybe just 20 odd pages, and I just flipped through it. It looked like it was a more specific guideline for using TWJ - it had more of a specific set of activities, I think. I'm curious to see it again actually, now that I've read through TWJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammyw Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 I saw Jot it Down at the Richmond conference. She had the prototype. It was short - maybe just 20 odd pages, and I just flipped through it. It looked like it was a more specific guideline for using TWJ - it had more of a specific set of activities, I think. I'm curious to see it again actually, now that I've read through TWJ. Oh wow! I expected it to be longer for some reason. Did you think it looked like something you'd really use a good deal? I know you only glanced through it of course, so you may not be able to answer that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 IIRC, it did seem more nuts and bolts and like something useful. I would consider getting it, I think it depends SO much on the price point here as to whether it's worth it. After all, I think we all agree that much of the BW product line, while good, is priced much higher than anything else of its kind. And it's possible it wasn't the whole thing but just a portion. But, like I said before, I think there's some level of the BW philosophy where she doesn't want to lay TOO much out, you know? She wants parents to dig in and really do the work with the kids as individuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Tammy - thanks for the info. The excerpt she emailed links to showed 60ish pages on the table of contents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking-Iris Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 So I've been able to borrow TWJ from a friend to see how I would like it. I really can't see myself spending any significant amount of money for it honestly. But it does seem interesting. I don't get why she just won't lower the price and put it out as a book. More people would buy it and participate in her yahoo group and subscribe to the Arrow etc if they weren't so turned off by the price of a three ring binder. I noticed in the front of TWJ she says the binder is good for putting online class materials in---sure, but not everyone is going to shell out the money for the TWJ binder and then the money for the online class as well. Uh no but thanks anyway. :lol: Honestly I think I might actually like the Arrow. I don't think I would subscribe to it though. But I do like that she offers individual titles. The Jot It Down seems interesting---price being an issue of course. I looked at The Wand---yeah no. At that price for that age range---a million resources can be found a lot cheaper to cover those skills for little ones.:tongue_smilie: So has anyone used The Arrow's Myth and Legend, Fairy Tale, or Poetry guides? I can't find a sample or a list of stories and poets she covers and I was interested if anyone had any info about those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Tammy - thanks for the info. The excerpt she emailed links to showed 60ish pages on the table of contents. Ah, what she had out must have been an except then, because it was definitely not 60 pages... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Here's the TOC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking-Iris Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 Thanks so much to everyone's advice. I got JotItDown, which is on sale at her website until Sunday I believe. I've decided to use Arrow by purchasing one at a time so I can pick the books we want to read. I'm signing up for the yahoo group. I think this may be the one. Bravewriter plus WWE is going to be my plan of action. What hooked me was the "writing lifestyle" instead of a "writing program." I actually like TWJ. Whew. For the time being I'm considering my search for writing curricula complete. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommamia Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Thanks so much to everyone's advice. I got JotItDown, which is on sale at her website until Sunday I believe. I've decided to use Arrow by purchasing one at a time so I can pick the books we want to read. I'm signing up for the yahoo group. I think this may be the one. Bravewriter plus WWE is going to be my plan of action. What hooked me was the "writing lifestyle" instead of a "writing program." I actually like TWJ. Whew. For the time being I'm considering my search for writing curricula complete. :D That's what hooked me, too.....the lifestyle vs a writing program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolamum Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I don't see Jot It Down for sale, am I missing it?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 http://www.bravewriter.com/program/home-study-courses/jot-it-down/ On sale through Sunday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolamum Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Thanks you. :D Has anyone purchased it?? Can they attest to how good {or not good} it is? I'm just curious how it lines up with TWJ & if it would give one the push to set up their own lessons kinda thing. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jar7709 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Thanks you. :D Has anyone purchased it?? Can they attest to how good {or not good} it is? I'm just curious how it lines up with TWJ & if it would give one the push to set up their own lessons kinda thing. ;) I bought it, and I really like it. We had a thread on it a day or so ago: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=377166 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking-Iris Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 I like it. Obviously I haven't "used" it yet, but I like what I'm reading in it. So I think I've come full circle from my OP about being completely confused about it and frustrated with our writing curriculum. There's just a warm fuzzy feeling that comes over me when I read TWJ and articles on her website. Does anyone use Bravewriter and WWE in the same year? I like WWE but wanted more and Bravewriter seems to add the elements I was missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 TWJ is on my to-read list this summer. I've already started it and started using some of the elements of it. I doubt I'll use it exactly as she says, but who does that anyway? ;) We started freewriting. (She says to add things in slowly and I agree.) We set a timer and all of us write (I join in) anything we want till the timer goes off. My kids love it. I don't know what it is about it but the freedom to write about ANYthing without fear of being told that it's wrong has been very appealing to them. My younger daughter can really struggle with getting words down on paper and I thought I would have to coax her into trying freewriting but she asks to do it. I bought it in pdf form from the homeschool co-op thing and printed it out and bound it with my proclick so I could highlight and scribble notes in it. I'm glad I didn't spend $90 or whatever the full price is, but I'm still liking it a lot so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 There's just a warm fuzzy feeling that comes over me when I read TWJ and articles on her website. Does anyone use Bravewriter and WWE in the same year? I like WWE but wanted more and Bravewriter seems to add the elements I was missing. BW has always given me the same warm fuzzy feeling. WWE gives me a secure feeling. :D We do both, every week. And some MCTLA with that too... :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iafrmgrl77 Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 BW has always given me the same warm fuzzy feeling. WWE gives me a secure feeling. :D We do both, every week. And some MCTLA with that too... :lol: WWE gives me that secure feeling, as well. And I am starting to think that BW may give us the "fun" element we are missing. I have pretty much made up my mind to purchase BS next time it is on sale at HSBC and will most likely combine the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking-Iris Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share Posted May 13, 2012 BW has always given me the same warm fuzzy feeling. WWE gives me a secure feeling. :D We do both, every week. And some MCTLA with that too... :lol: That's exactly what I'm feeling. I think after I finish reading everything and planning and getting the materials for both that I want/need---next Fall is going to be so much fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetic license Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 BW has always given me the same warm fuzzy feeling. WWE gives me a secure feeling. :D We do both, every week. And some MCTLA with that too... :lol: When you say you do BW every week, what elements does that include? Do you use the wand/arrow/etc, the teatimes, or more? I'm trying to get a feel for the practical application, myself (we're just starting out on this writing journey over here :001_smile: ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 When you say you do BW every week, what elements does that include? Do you use the wand/arrow/etc, the teatimes, or more? I'm trying to get a feel for the practical application, myself (we're just starting out on this writing journey over here :001_smile: ) I include a few elements from the list on this page every week. WWE covers copywork, narration, and dictation. What we always (or almost always :D) get to each week: read-aloud time, free writing/writing projects, jot it down, movies/TV discussions. Stuff I could be working harder on: language games and teaching literary elements. I've owned Teaching the Classics for about a year and it's time to blow the dust off of it and put it into practice. I am pretty CM as well, so nature journals, art appreciation, and poetry tea time get done in line with that philosophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking-Iris Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) Off topic a bit---I've tried to sign up to the yahoo group several times and I get redirected to a page that says "create yahoo profile" and after I click there it asks for me to sign in using Google, so I sign in and it redirects me to "create yahoo profile" and then after I click there it again asks for my Google sign in---this goes on an unending loop. If I click on "my groups" it says I haven't any so I look at Search for groups and find Bravewriter but when I click on join this group I get redirected to the profile/sign in loop above. Any thoughts? Help? Also I wanted to add to the discussion above that there are Friday Freewrite writing prompts on the blog archived from as far back as 2005. For those of us who like a little nudge in a certain direction. I plan on doing the 8 week Friday freewrite and then revision of one or two of those pieces. Then do it again in the next term. I'm only planning on these 16 days of freewrite with prompts next year so we can use other weeks to focus on the other activities in TWJ and Arrow. I think for anyone starting out with BW (which I am) it might be better to pick one thing and slowly ease into it. Edited May 14, 2012 by Walking-Iris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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