Snickerdoodle Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Students across the state are still scratching their heads over an absurd state test question about a talking pineapple. The puzzler on the eighth-grade reading exam stumped even educators and has critics saying the tests, which are becoming more high stakes, are flawed. “I think it’s weird that they put such a silly question on a state test. What were they thinking?†said Bruce Turley, 14, an eighth-grader at Lower Manhattan Community Middle School. “I thought it was a little strange, but I just answered it as best as I could,†said his classmate Tyree Furman, 14. “You just have to give it your best answer. These are important tests.†Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/talking-pineapple-question-state-exam-stumps-article-1.1064657#ixzz1sg5x6l7w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Ridiculous. The story and its accompanying questions didn't seem to have a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I wondered if this would end up here. My brother (who is a college professor) posted about it on FB yesterday. Here's more information: http://www.pinkwater.com/pzone/ The questions could have been interesting as essay or discussion questions. As multiple choice, they are completely useless and not answerable. The fact that the hare says "Um... hi" to the talking pineapple cracked me up. I figure the question must've been written by a rabid Psych fan on a bad drug trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Or by a parent trying to grasp at straws while waiting with a bored preschooler in the grocery line! Actually, my 7 yr old has a set of felt fruit/vegetables that all have personalities (the rest of the toy kitchen has gone by the wayside, but I guess the food is just too cute to give up), and one of them is an annoying eggplant who thinks he's royal because he's purple-and when he appears and starts ordering the other stuffed animals around, I do hear "Eat the eggplant" coming from her room. However, her animals wouldn't have fallen for the eggplant challenging them to a race, because stuffed vegetables don't run-they roll or bounce, and complain constantly that they're going to get bruised and spoil when they do. Maybe I now know why she consistently scores so high on Language arts tests??? I read the blog link---apparently my DD really DOES think like the writer of the passage-in the original story, the annoying vegetable IS the eggplant!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted April 21, 2012 Author Share Posted April 21, 2012 “You just have to give it your best answer. These are important tests.†Cognitive dissonance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onceuponatime Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I didn't think the questions were so hard to figure out, except for "Why did the animals eat the pineapple?" That was just sick. Sentient beings should not eat other sentient beings. The Owl was the wisest; the animals would have been happier if they had cheered for the rabbit; the animals were suspicious of the pineapple; they thought the pineapple had a plan to fool them. I think the test makers are trying to test the students powers of reasoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GailV Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) I wondered if this would end up here. My brother (who is a college professor) posted about it on FB yesterday. I think I've seen an entire Facebook page devoted to the pineapple, but I forget how I found it. Perhaps from Pinkwater's page? I started out following a rabbit trail from author/homeschooler Melissa Wiley, who posted about it yesterday. Edited April 21, 2012 by GailV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onceuponatime Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I wondered if this would end up here. My brother (who is a college professor) posted about it on FB yesterday. Here's more information: http://www.pinkwater.com/pzone/ The questions could have been interesting as essay or discussion questions. As multiple choice, they are completely useless and not answerable. The fact that the hare says "Um... hi" to the talking pineapple cracked me up. I figure the question must've been written by a rabid Psych fan on a bad drug trip. Love Mr. Pinkwater's rebuttal. They shouldn't have changed his story. Still, I don't agree that all the questions were unanswerable. If they had left the original story it would have been obvious that they ate the challenging party because they were annoyed. In the remake, it could be that they were annoyed or hungry after waiting for 2 hours. The choice would probably be picked based on the child's own experience. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Sentient beings should not eat other sentient beings. Why not, they are tasty? Nothing like a thick steak, just kissed by the flame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim in Appalachia Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I figure the question must've been written by a rabid Psych fan on a bad drug trip. :lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 A while back I was exploring whether I could get a feel for my dd's reading level using an old state standardized reading test found online. At the 2nd grade level, not only was the language overly simplified and stilted, and the story line lacking, but the logic was obscure. It took some thinking on my part to guess what they were even getting at. Since then I am officially afraid of standardized tests of reading comprehension. When I was a kid, we took the Iowa tests and it was totally fun for me. I always wondered where all the test anxiety (experienced by kids nowadays) comes from. Now I begin to understand. For years I've been hearing how education has gone to Hades over "teaching to the test." I submit that if the tests were designed properly, nobody would ever need to "teach to" them. People complain about the shortcomings of students, parents, teachers, and even the President, but how come I never hear about reform at the level of the test writers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onceuponatime Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Why not, they are tasty? Nothing like a thick steak, just kissed by the flame. Hmm. Maybe I should change my phraseology. Or stop eating beef. I wouldn't want to be a hypocrite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usetoschool Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 People complain about the shortcomings of students, parents, teachers, and even the President, but how come I never hear about reform at the level of the test writers? They are talking about that in Florida - a little kerfuffle started by The Happy Scientist http://stateimpact.npr.org/florida/2012/04/20/feedback-loop-fcat-not-blinding-them-with-science/ We did a test prep course once, expecting to learn about what material was covered and what would need to be studied and were annoyed when the entire course was about trick questions and figuring out what the test was looking for and how to narrow down possible answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 :lol: That's downright trippy. I love Daniel Pinkwater. The very idea of using anything by Pinkwater for a multiple choice test is just hilarious. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I wondered if this would end up here. My brother (who is a college professor) posted about it on FB yesterday. Here's more information: http://www.pinkwater.com/pzone/ The questions could have been interesting as essay or discussion questions. As multiple choice, they are completely useless and not answerable. The fact that the hare says "Um... hi" to the talking pineapple cracked me up. I figure the question must've been written by a rabid Psych fan on a bad drug trip. I LOVE THAT SHOW!!!! I thought close to the same thing when I read this. I was thinking where are Shawn and Gus at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 It's a weird story, but I don't think the answers are all that hard. Here's what I'd say the answers are (my comments in blue): Beginning with paragraph 4, in what order are the events in the story told? A switching back and forth between places B In the order in which the events happen C Switching back and forth between the past and the present D In the order in which the hare tells the events to another animal The animals ate the pineapple most likely because they were A Hungry B Excited C Annoyed D Amused The whole point of the story is that a pineapple is a pineapple, and we shouldn't expect it to be something other than what it is, no matter what anyone might suggest to the contrary. This being the case, you eat a tropical fruit because you are hungry, not because you have some kind of emotionally-based ulterior motive. And after sitting around for two hours, fooled into thinking the fruit might do something other than be a fruit, the animals came to their senses, saw the fruit for what it was, and did with it what a sensible person does with fruit--which is to eat it, not to sit around staring at it and wondering if it will run (fruit does not run, as any sensible person knows). Which animal spoke the wisest words? A The hare B The moose C The crow D The owl The owl is wisest because it knows a pineapple is a pineapple, and can't do things pineapples can't do--like run races. When the moose says the pineapple has something up its sleeve, it means metaphorically that the pineapple is planning to do something unexpected. When the owl replies that pineapples don't have sleeves, he isn't being literal, he's metaphorically saying that the pineapple won't do something unexpected because the pineapple is a tropical fruit and can only do what a tropical fruit can be expected to do. It doesn't have the capacity to do something unexpected--metaphorically, it doesn't have "sleeves" from which "something" might emerge. It's just a pineapple. The owl is wisest because it sees things as they actually are and bases his conclusion on facts, a hare can run, a pineapple can't (which is borne out by the conclusion of the story), whereas the other animals are fooled into thinking the pineapple is more than a pineapple--to the point that they spend two hours sitting there staring at it, waiting for it to be something it is not and somehow beat a hare in a race. Not wise. As the moral says, pineapples don't have sleeves--usually, things are exactly what they appear to be. And the owl is the only animal who is wise enough to realize this. Before the race, how did the animals feel toward the pineapple? A Suspicious B Kindly C Sympathetic D Envious Suspicious. They thought it had a plan to trick them. What would have happened if the animals had decided to cheer for the hare? A The pineapple would have won the race. B They would have been mad at the hare for winning. C The hare would have just sat there and not moved. D They would have been happy to have cheered for a winner. A change in the animals' opinion of who might win would not affect the actual outcome of the race. A pineapple is a pineapple because it is a pineapple, not because most of the animals believe it to be a pineapple. A hare is a hare for the same reason. A race between a pineapple and a hare will have the same result no matter who you root for. It's another question about facts, common sense, and an understanding of the nature of reality. When the moose said that the pineapple has some trick up its sleeve, he means that the pineapple A is wearing a disguise B wants to show the animals a trick C has a plan to fool the animals D is going to put something out of its sleeve This is the question I have the most problem with, really. Having some trick up one's sleeve is a culturally dependent figure of speech, and a student from a culture other than the one this figure of speech is drawn from might have a disadvantage on the test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 MamaSheep, your answers and explanations are precisely why the questions would have made good essay or discussion questions rather than multiple choice. With multiple choice one would assume that only one answer is correct, however for some questions more than one answer could be argued. For example, they might have eaten the pineapple because they were hungry, but a case could be made for them eaten the pineapple because they were annoyed. Which animal was the wisest could also be argued and I'd say if a kid could make a good case for the animal they chose, with support from the story, they should be correct, which is why I think essay questions would have been better, at least for those two questions. And, yes, Psych is a totally awesome show :) Just under 6 months to find out if Henry is dead or if he was wearing a bulletproof vest or something because he is, after all, Henry Spencer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GailV Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 We did a test prep course once, expecting to learn about what material was covered and what would need to be studied and were annoyed when the entire course was about trick questions and figuring out what the test was looking for and how to narrow down possible answers. MamaSheep, your answers and explanations are precisely why the questions would have made good essay or discussion questions rather than multiple choice. With multiple choice one would assume that only one answer is correct, however for some questions more than one answer could be argued. For example, they might have eaten the pineapple because they were hungry, but a case could be made for them eaten the pineapple because they were annoyed. Which animal was the wisest could also be argued and I'd say if a kid could make a good case for the animal they chose, with support from the story, they should be correct, which is why I think essay questions would have been better, at least for those two questions. Multiple choice questions with multiple plausible answers are common. They certainly aren't limited to recent pineapple-centric tests. I was always aware of them as a child -- please note that I am old, so we are talking about tests given decades ago. Often I would be laughing to myself over the absurd scenarios I could dream up to make the obviously wrong answers seem correct. However, I considered it an exercise in figuring out what the test-writers wanted to hear. This was a good skill in college, where I was able to expand to figuring out what the professor wanted to ask, thus streamlining what I studied for a test. If you think about it, we all do that sort of thing all the time -- figure out what people are expecting us to say or do, and then positioning ourselves accordingly by meeting their expectations or not. Which isn't to say these are good questions to put on a test. They're just not that unusually bad. And they can serve a purpose, but probably not the purpose the test-write intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 The original story was much more interesting and much better written than the rewrite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 The animals ate the pineapple most likely because they were A Hungry B Excited C Annoyed D Amused The whole point of the story is that a pineapple is a pineapple, and we shouldn't expect it to be something other than what it is, no matter what anyone might suggest to the contrary. This being the case, you eat a tropical fruit because you are hungry, not because you have some kind of emotionally-based ulterior motive. And after sitting around for two hours, fooled into thinking the fruit might do something other than be a fruit, the animals came to their senses, saw the fruit for what it was, and did with it what a sensible person does with fruit--which is to eat it, not to sit around staring at it and wondering if it will run (fruit does not run, as any sensible person knows). In one of the news articles I've read on this issue, they identified the correct answer here as "C Annoyed", explaining that the animals were annoyed with the pineapple for "tricking" them. *shrug* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirch Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 The original story was much more interesting and much better written than the rewrite. That was my thought too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 In one of the news articles I've read on this issue, they identified the correct answer here as "C Annoyed", explaining that the animals were annoyed with the pineapple for "tricking" them. *shrug* Eh, I don't think that conclusion fits with the moral. But perhaps Gail is right and that's why they'd make better essay questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 They are talking about that in Florida - a little kerfuffle started by The Happy Scientist http://stateimpact.npr.org/florida/2012/04/20/feedback-loop-fcat-not-blinding-them-with-science/ We did a test prep course once, expecting to learn about what material was covered and what would need to be studied and were annoyed when the entire course was about trick questions and figuring out what the test was looking for and how to narrow down possible answers. Sounds like Princeton Review. I taught for them, briefly. Lost all respect for the writers of the SAT.:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 Can you imagine the faculty sitting around debating which way to alter all those answer sheets? :lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usetoschool Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/living-in-dialogue/2012/04/the_pineapple_story_questions.html A fairly intelligent discussion (including some confused commentary from the pineapple story author regarding why they would ever use a story of his for a comprehension test) that combines both the Happy Scientist problems and the pineapple problems into one article that questions the testing in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usetoschool Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Sounds like Princeton Review. I taught for them, briefly. Lost all respect for the writers of the SAT.:001_smile: Yep... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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