What subjects does it help to "think backwards" about when planning for high school?

[Halcyon]

My son will be starting pre-algebra in 5th, so that means (probably) Algebra in 6th, algebra 2 in 7th, Geometry in 8th, trig in 9th, pre calc in 10th, Calc in 11th, and ?.. In 12th. While thinking this through, i began to think about what other subjects would benefit from "thinking backwards" about....ie. where do i want to end up, and work backwards from there.....science would be one, i guess, but we do a fairly rigorous science approach around here, one that i think will prepare him well for high school. History sequence would be another...i think it would depend on whether one was taking AP History......

 

What subjects do you wish you had "thought backwards" about for high school, particularly if you have an accelerated child thatwould like to attend a competitive school?

[Diviya]

I'm in the same boat as you re the ages of my kids, but I'm also thinking backwards on Latin, and, possibly, Greek. I want to have plenty of time to actually read, so we need to move at a certain pace to get the morphology, grammar, syntax, etc down.

[Halcyon]

I'm in the same boat as you re the ages of my kids, but I'm also thinking backwards on Latin, and, possibly, Greek. I want to have plenty of time to actually read, so we need to move at a certain pace to get the morphology, grammar, syntax, etc down.

 

Good point. I want both my kids to be prepared to take the NLE as early as possible and then..i dont know....AP Latin?

[Lucy the Valiant]

As a high school English teacher, I never understood the sequence of American lit before British, especially for kids with a solid grasp on world history. (I think most curricula consider American lit "easier" and therefore better for juniors vs. seniors, but - I disagree with that assessment.)

 

I think that "thinking backwards" in literature (i.e., having some specific goals in mind at the 9th grade end) would save considerable wasted time and simultaneously "grease the wheels" of other disciplines (specifically history).

 

*FORMER high school English teacher :D

[Diviya]

Good point. I want both my kids to be prepared to take the NLE as early as possible and then..i dont know....AP Latin?

 

Well sure, AP Latin, but I was thinking more in terms of having time to really dig into the literature. I think if we do it right, we should have all of high school for that. At least that's my plan :D

[Halcyon]

As a high school English teacher, I never understood the sequence of American lit before British, especially for kids with a solid grasp on world history. (I think most curricula consider American lit "easier" and therefore better for juniors vs. seniors, but - I disagree with that assessment.)

 

I think that "thinking backwards" in literature (i.e., having some specific goals in mind at the 9th grade end) would save considerable wasted time and simultaneously "grease the wheels" of other disciplines (specifically history).

 

*FORMER high school English teacher :D

 

So what would your ideal sequence be, not only for high school, but for 7th and 8th? :bigear:

[Musicmom]

Foreign language (modern) might also be a good one to think backwards on. It's a good idea to consider how many years you want to show on the transcript and what your goals for proficiency are. The higher your goals, the earlier you have to plan for the curriculum, tutors, time and focus necessary to reach them.

[Julie of KY]

Seeing that you plan on starting algebra at an early age, you might think about expanding math more broadly into number theory and/or probability. Art of Problem Solving has some great articles on their website about the "trap" of getting to calculus too early just because you can and not broadening the base of math instead.

[Halcyon]

Seeing that you plan on starting algebra at an early age, you might think about expanding math more broadly into number theory and/or probability. Art of Problem Solving has some great articles on their website about the "trap" of getting to calculus too early just because you can and not broadening the base of math instead.

 

Good point. Is number theory from aops recommended after algebra? I need to go look at their site. Definitely in no rush to get to calculus, would prefer to broaden (thats our motto around here, i think!)

[momofkhm]

Foreign language (modern) might also be a good one to think backwards on. It's a good idea to consider how many years you want to show on the transcript and what your goals for proficiency are. The higher your goals, the earlier you have to plan for the curriculum, tutors, time and focus necessary to reach them.

 

:iagree: I wish we had started dd a year earlier on German at OSU so she could take AP German in her senior year.

[serendipitous journey]

So what would your ideal sequence be, not only for high school, but for 7th and 8th? :bigear:

 

Good point. Is number theory from aops recommended after algebra? I need to go look at their site. Definitely in no rush to get to calculus, would prefer to broaden (thats our motto around here, i think!)

 

Also working backwards here ...

Does anyone have advice on the timing and sequence of Latin and of Greek? If the goal is reading the ancient works (for Latin, assuming the AP, as early as a child could be expected to take it without undue stress).

[Sebastian (a lady)]

As a high school English teacher, I never understood the sequence of American lit before British, especially for kids with a solid grasp on world history. (I think most curricula consider American lit "easier" and therefore better for juniors vs. seniors, but - I disagree with that assessment.)

 

I think that "thinking backwards" in literature (i.e., having some specific goals in mind at the 9th grade end) would save considerable wasted time and simultaneously "grease the wheels" of other disciplines (specifically history).

 

*FORMER high school English teacher :D

 

I wonder if this link up is because many juniors are also taking US history.

 

Or if it is a matter of the bulk of American works being written in mostly modern language. There isn't much of an American lit equivalent of Shakespeare, Chaucer or Beowulf.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

My son will be starting pre-algebra in 5th, so that means (probably) Algebra in 6th, algebra 2 in 7th, Geometry in 8th, trig in 9th, pre calc in 10th, Calc in 11th, and ?.. In 12th. While thinking this through, i began to think about what other subjects would benefit from "thinking backwards" about....ie. where do i want to end up, and work backwards from there.....science would be one, i guess, but we do a fairly rigorous science approach around here, one that i think will prepare him well for high school. History sequence would be another...i think it would depend on whether one was taking AP History......

 

What subjects do you wish you had "thought backwards" about for high school, particularly if you have an accelerated child thatwould like to attend a competitive school?

 

 

 

Don't rule out wanting to dwell longer at certain levels or certain ages. I have to keep reminding myself that the goal is excellence, not checking the box. That has meant, for example, giving myself permission to completely redo a whole chapter in Algebra, when it becomes clear that passive understanding did not equal active mastery.

 

If you are thinkinf of using tests like SAT Subject Tests or AP exams to quantify high school work, think about which scores you might want to have in hand when time comes for college applications senior year (ie, you might not want to wait until senior year to take all of the exams).

 

What science do you want done in high school? Do any have particular math requirements (though it sounds like you'll be on track for any sequence). If you anticipate using demanding textbooks, how are you prepping for the skill of using them.

 

Where are you headed with writing? Mastering the skill of writing about history, science and literature is a drawn out practice that requires a lot of time on task (imho).

[Nan in Mass]

I think it makes sense to plan everything backwards, not just some subjects, not just school, even. You just have to be careful to change that plan as your child grows and begins wanting to prune some branches to make room for more of this and less of that and some of this that you hadn't thought of at all. I think it helps to start with your idea of who you would like your child to be as an adult mixed with who your child wants to be as an adult and work backwards from there. It is very helpful if together you pick a few role models and then think about what exactly it is about those people that you admire and how they got that way. If you are doing college prep, think about what allows students to do well in college (not just what allows them to be admitted - sometimes these are different) and incorporate those in your backwards plan. In either case, it makes sense to think about and incorporate what traits will allow your child to become successful in the work place (again, often entirely different from what allows them to succeed in college). At that point, you will have a list of character traits and skills. Then you can think about high school academic requirements and college admissions requirements and how to incorporate those while still keeping your first lists. They are not always compatable. In fact, it is usually about here that parents panic because they can look very incompatable. You have to compromise, jump through just enough hoops to get into college or meet your school districts requirements (if it has them) while at the same time making sure that you are not creating an adult who excels at nothing but being a stellar college applicant. If you work backwards, you have a much better chance of doing this. You will also have a better chance at making the right decisions and compromises when your child comes to you with his or her own plans.

 

This probably doesn't feel very helpful, but truly, what you are trying to do is a very complex and organic scheduling job and a bit of forethought and clear but simple family goals will make the whole thing much easier.

 

Nan

[Kareni]

My son will be starting pre-algebra in 5th, so that means (probably) Algebra in 6th, algebra 2 in 7th, Geometry in 8th, trig in 9th, pre calc in 10th, Calc in 11th, and ?.. In 12th.

 

 

Just a comment on your probable math progression. In many cases, Pre-calculus includes Trigonometry so you may not need (or wish) to dedicate two years to those two subjects.

 

I agree with the need to plan out foreign languages especially if you wish for your child to get to the AP level.

 

I also agree with Sebastian (a lady)'s comment about the desirability of having AP and SAT subject test scores in hand at the end of your child's junior year if he/she wishes them to be considered in the college application process.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Halcyon]

Don't rule out wanting to dwell longer at certain levels or certain ages. I have to keep reminding myself that the goal is excellence, not checking the box. That has meant, for example, giving myself permission to completely redo a whole chapter in Algebra, when it becomes clear that passive understanding did not equal active mastery.

 

If you are thinkinf of using tests like SAT Subject Tests or AP exams to quantify high school work, think about which scores you might want to have in hand when time comes for college applications senior year (ie, you might not want to wait until senior year to take all of the exams).

 

Right, so I need to figure out what time of year these are offered, and what he needs to have under his belt before taking them. Ideally, he would space out taking them from 10th through 11th. I would love to see him take 2 in his Sophomore year and 3 in his Junior year, but not sure that's enough for top colleges. (I graduated in the dark ages, but never took them and somehow ended up at a top school!)

 

What science do you want done in high school? Do any have particular math requirements (though it sounds like you'll be on track for any sequence). If you anticipate using demanding textbooks, how are you prepping for the skill of using them.

Science...I haven't thought that far ahead in science. Most likely Biology in 9, Chem in 10th, Physics in 11th and a specialty science like Marine Biology. We may double up on Science in one or more of the years, if the interest is there. We are shooting for a top college, so I have to research requirements and, of course, see where his interests like :tongue_smilie: We're doing Life Science next year along with BFSU Volume 2, then Earth Science the following year, Physics in 7th, Chemistry in 8th......I haven't thought farther than that.

 

Where are you headed with writing? Mastering the skill of writing about history, science and literature is a drawn out practice that requires a lot of time on task (imho).

 

Writing...well, we're working with WWS right now, and will continue. We will of course be doing a lot of writing in history and science--it's a big focus of our homeschool. Again, don't know what the requirements are in high school for this--I always thought of it as "become a good writer" and not in terms of coursework.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Halcyon

[Halcyon]

I think it makes sense to plan everything backwards, not just some subjects, not just school, even. You just have to be careful to change that plan as your child grows and begins wanting to prune some branches to make room for more of this and less of that and some of this that you hadn't thought of at all. I think it helps to start with your idea of who you would like your child to be as an adult mixed with who your child wants to be as an adult and work backwards from there. It is very helpful if together you pick a few role models and then think about what exactly it is about those people that you admire and how they got that way. If you are doing college prep, think about what allows students to do well in college (not just what allows them to be admitted - sometimes these are different) and incorporate those in your backwards plan. In either case, it makes sense to think about and incorporate what traits will allow your child to become successful in the work place (again, often entirely different from what allows them to succeed in college). At that point, you will have a list of character traits and skills. Then you can think about high school academic requirements and college admissions requirements and how to incorporate those while still keeping your first lists. They are not always compatable. In fact, it is usually about here that parents panic because they can look very incompatable. You have to compromise, jump through just enough hoops to get into college or meet your school districts requirements (if it has them) while at the same time making sure that you are not creating an adult who excels at nothing but being a stellar college applicant. If you work backwards, you have a much better chance of doing this. You will also have a better chance at making the right decisions and compromises when your child comes to you with his or her own plans.

 

This probably doesn't feel very helpful, but truly, what you are trying to do is a very complex and organic scheduling job and a bit of forethought and clear but simple family goals will make the whole thing much easier.

 

Nan

 

 

Thank you Nan. This is helpful. Off the top of my head, what I want is for my child to become an articulate, pro-active, thoughtful, resilient adult who knows how to emphasize his strengths while continually working on his weaknesses. I want him to have passions, things he loves doing, things that he dives into without coming up for air. Academically, I want a great writer, unintimidated by virtually anything life or college can throw at him. I want someone who is willing to ask for help when he encounters problems. I want a student who reads the classics with ease and facility, and is able to discuss history based on solid understanding and knowledge. It is more important to me that he become an adult who is able to adapt and change and grow and self-start than anything else. I can already see he is the sort of student who will do his very best, but above that, I want him to find what pleases HIM, not just do what is required for a given course or teacher.

 

This has made me think!

This is a great thread. When thinking backwards, inter-relations between disciplines should be considered. For example, Physics is more interesting if you've studied Calculus beforehand (or maybe concurrently, if you are lucky). If you've learned a bit about statistics, both laboratory sciences, and understanding of History and Economics can benefit. Certainly a knowledge of the history of a given period is valuable input before reading literature written or set in that period. e.g. reading "Tale of Two Cities" without knowing anything about the French Revolution seems unfortunate.

[regentrude]

When thinking backwards, inter-relations between disciplines should be considered. For example, Physics is more interesting if you've studied Calculus beforehand (or maybe concurrently, if you are lucky)..

 

Agreed- but one also needs to consider that chemistry makes a lot more sense with prior knowledge of physics, and biology ideally needs a prior knowledge of chemistry. So with this in mind, you'd want to start with physics to have it for chem, which you want for bio. (Which means you can't wait for calculus.)

Also, while I love calculus and agree that it is essential for some physics concepts, you can do a whole lot of interesting stuff just based on algebra and a tiny bit of trig. I think the idea of physics being just for the mathy students who cover calculus before 12th grade (as was mentioned in the physics thread) does a disservice to many students who could greatly benefit from physics studies with a lower mathematical level.

 

(off my soap boax)

Agreed- but one also needs to consider that chemistry makes a lot more sense with prior knowledge of physics, and biology ideally needs a prior knowledge of chemistry. So with this in mind, you'd want to start with physics to have it for chem, which you want for bio. (Which means you can't wait for calculus.)

(off my soap boax)

 

I understand where you are coming from in the general case, but I think that if a student is on track to do calc in 11th grade, you can get the benefit of holding off physics until then, and doing calculus-based physics. And I could not more strongly agree with you that physics is for everyone, not just STEM kids. Everyone who drives a car should understand the formula for kinetic energy, and what it means, for example.

 

I think ideally, it would be valuable to do science in kind of a spiral way, but that presents a problem if you want to take AP or SAT II tests. Most middle school science I've seen is pretty informal. I wonder if you could cover the basics of physics, chemistry and biology better in middle school, if you then get the interdisciplinary benefits you cite in high school without doing the sciences in the "backwards" order.

[Halcyon]

This is a great thread. When thinking backwards, inter-relations between disciplines should be considered. For example, Physics is more interesting if you've studied Calculus beforehand (or maybe concurrently, if you are lucky). If you've learned a bit about statistics, both laboratory sciences, and understanding of History and Economics can benefit. Certainly a knowledge of the history of a given period is valuable input before reading literature written or set in that period. e.g. reading "Tale of Two Cities" without knowing anything about the French Revolution seems unfortunate.

 

Yes! And this is the part that scares me! Planning out subjects not just on their own, but in a coordinated fashion so that, as you say, one doesnt read a book without having e historical background. Likewise, one doesnt study physics witout calculus (not saying calc is neccesary for physics, just using it as an example). And then being sure that youve covered all your bases for SAT subject tests, APs, and college requirements....and also maintain a classical approach :lol: its enough to drive one batty. Is there a respected classical school (that also happens to have kids going to good colleges) that perhaps puts their high school subject sequence online? I Can dream, right?

[regentrude]

I think ideally, it would be valuable to do science in kind of a spiral way, but that presents a problem if you want to take AP or SAT II tests. Most middle school science I've seen is pretty informal. I wonder if you could cover the basics of physics, chemistry and biology better in middle school, if you then get the interdisciplinary benefits you cite in high school without doing the sciences in the "backwards" order.

 

The idea of one science per year is a very bizarre concept to me, coming from a European education tradition where all sciences are taught concurrently. Bio starts in 5th, phys in 6th, chem in 7th, each 2-3 hours/week, taken through high school in way that gradually introduces concepts - the easy first, the difficult later. But: math education is better, so the students in 7th for instance can solve linear equations and manipulate algebraic formulas in physics.

Integrated science ed has been discussed on this forum a lot.

As you rightly remark, the testing system is set up for the US traditional approach.

[EKS]

I did that with all of them.

[Halcyon]

I did that with all of them.

 

Can you elaborate? Thanks! :bigear:

[Nan in Mass]

Yes! And this is the part that scares me! Planning out subjects not just on their own, but in a coordinated fashion so that, as you say, one doesnt read a book without having e historical background. Likewise, one doesnt study physics witout calculus (not saying calc is neccesary for physics, just using it as an example). And then being sure that youve covered all your bases for SAT subject tests, APs, and college requirements....and also maintain a classical approach :lol: its enough to drive one batty. Is there a respected classical school (that also happens to have kids going to good colleges) that perhaps puts their high school subject sequence online? I Can dream, right?

 

If you live in the US and you use US materials, you aren't going to be able to make everything stream together nicely. From what little I've seen of the national curriculum of France and the little I know about their educational system, I think it *is* possible to do this if you are willing to put your nation's goals first and have a national curriculum that has everything carefully planned out from pre-K through university. The US educational system is decentralized, so there are many possible paths and many possible goals. Even if you use college admissions guidelines ("college prep"), you still don't have a uniform set of goals that apply to all colleges. There are some similarities and some colleges are more flexible than others or have fewer applicants and so have more time to consider whether applicant A is better than applicant B despite their different transcripts or portfolios. In general, though, colleges like things that make it easy for them to compare their applicants even if they are from unknown schools (like AP tests) and they want proof that their applicant will survive and thrive and contribute positively. I think that the more sure they are that a student will do this, the more likely they are to admit him or her. The burden of proof is on homeschoolers. If you are a well-reputed prep school, then probably you can get away with doing something unusual and supplying a bit less proof, but as a totally unknown homeschooler applying to a college which has possibly had a few bad experiences with unusual applicants, you need to give the college something to compare. I think that is why even two more alternative type colleges to whom I spoke said that they wanted test scores from homeschoolers.

 

But getting back to your problem of a streamlined, efficient, curriculum that builds on itself throughout all four years... YOU CAN'T DO EVERYTHING. Therefore, you are going to have to set goals, so the things that you don't do won't turn out to be the things that were the most important to your family and your particular child. Think of TWTM as a cookbook, as a set of directions for doing everything well, going far with every subject. When you plan your "meal", you will have to take into consideration your budget, you time, your available resources, and the taste and goal of your diner. Time and money and the aptitude of your student will offer some restrictions. If you have to spend lots of extra time on math in order to get through calculus during high school, then that time is going to eat into something else, like history. If you don't have the resources to outsource AP classes, then it is a fair bet that you won't do them quite as efficiently at home (unless you have a brilliant child or one who is blind to all the other interesting aspects of the subject that aren't covered on the test) and you will need to curtail something else. So between your goals and your restrictions, your tangle should be pruned down a bit. Then think about where you can double up (to save time) and choose something to use as a heavy teaching-thinking subject and something to skimp and leave room for your child to choose something.

 

An example: The way I did this for my third was first to choose a general emphasis. My child is headed for engineering school. We knew that was likely when he was 2 and he confirmed it for himself when he was about 12 and discovered that Daddy's work was exactly like his own play but with a bigger budget. So - that means he needs to go to college. Engineering school is not easy, so he needs good general academic skills. He needs good science and math. He also needs to be creative, good at problem solving, and have lots of hands-on experience. That immediately puts history, literature, art, music, and foreign languages secondary to math and science and technology. Or does it? In engineering school, he will get almost only math and science and technology. Our family goals require more than just that, therefore I need to cover any non-engineering subjects in high school. Practically speaking, that meant that we were not going to devote all his time in high school to math, science, and technology. He is a typical engineer - disinclined to write. That means we need to spend extra time working on writing skills. At that point in the planning, I realized I needed to double up some subjects.

 

Nan

 

ETA: At that point in the planning, I realized if I were going to leave plenty of free time for my son to do hands-on projects, I needed to double up on some subjects, skimp fairly heavily on at least one, and try to teach thinking in everything but pick one every year on which to concentrate. I did a very un-TWTM thing to do and decided to skip art and music history all together and put history itself at the bottom of the priority list. The engineers I know read history for fun as adults. It is fairly easy to learn casually as an adult (unlike, say, physics). He had already had two overviews. It was doubled with great books. Then Joan in Geneva suggested doing history using a French textbook. So - we doubled up French and history. The French text is almost all primary sources, so some academic skills were covered (extrapolating the general from specific examples, dealing with textbook questions, bias of sources). Literature was great books (which helped with the history, too). Writing was going to have to be treated separately, at first, and then could be incorporated in the other subjects. Grammar was covered in Latin, which we did (skimpily) for a few years. The end result was three subjects in 9th and 10th: writing, great books, and history, plus another half subject, Latin. Considering great books, I decided that the moderns were not suitable for my boys in high school. Besides, they were more likely to read them as adults than The Odyssey. We had read the early moderns recently. And I wanted him to do some scifi. That left us with ancients, some medieval, some scifi, and Shakespeare for great books. We have a reasonably good community college and this son was going to need help transitioning into a classroom learning situation (because of the way we homeschool), so we chose community college classes and the SAT as a way to show colleges that he had the necessary academic skills. That meant that speech and composition would be taken there. That covers more academic skills and rhetoric. The rhetoric is not at a high level, but rhetoric is one of those WTM subjects that we opted only to pursue a little way down the path. Our family is more interested in skills than content (in general) so we were delighted when he chose to do drawing at the community college. Math was simple - keep doing Singapore then go to community college. Science was more difficult. I agonized over science. Was I putting him at a disadvantage by not doing AP science? Would he be able to do community college sciences before 12th grade so he could cover both chemistry and physics? What about biology? Classroom biology does not cover the sort of biology that my family goals required (natural history). And when was he going to have time for hands-on technology projects? Backing up from the end of high school, I was very worried to discover that my son was going to have to begin taking community college courses in 10th grade. Ug. I knew that they were going to eat up a lion's share of time, leaving little left for home subjects or hands-on projects or the traveling/peace studies that is also a family requirement. We made lots of compromises. The plan evolved as we discovered what we could and couldn't manage. In the end, it looked something like this:

 

Non-STEM subjects:

 

9th - writing, great books ancients, histoire/géographie, a little sight-singing and some piano, a little Latin, peace studies (included a trip to Europe)

10th - writing, great books medieval, cc speech, histoire/géographie, cc drawing, a little sight-singing, a little piano, a little Latin, peace studies (included a trip to Japan)

11th - great books scifi (mostly), a little sight-singing, a little piano, French grammar, French conversation (will hopefully include a few months in Switzerland)

12th (still to come) - comp and a little great books

 

Math:

Integrated math 3

Integrated math 4

CC pre-calc

CC calc

 

Science:

 

9th - Independent projects, natural history

10th - Independent projects, natural history

11th - CC chemistry

12th - CC physics and probably half a year of bio, because the cc advisors say he should take it

 

He will probably take java at the CC.

 

His testing schedule:

 

10th - PSAT

11th - PSAT, SAT, possibly chem SAT2 (just in case he every needs it, since he has done so well in chemistry)

12th - SAT

 

Voila! A not-exactly-super-coordinated but fairly stream-lined and certainly very individualized high school plan.

 

Remember - it didn't start out in 9th grade looking exactly like this. We planned to get farther in Latin and we didn't plan on doing some of the things we did. But in general, it has gone more or less as planned, at least enough that things like drawing and rhetoric were covered, albeit lightly.

 

Nan

Edited April 18, 2012 by Nan in Mass

[Nan in Mass]

So, continuing the above post, the emphasis in 9th grade was writing, great books, peacestudies/travel, hands-on projects (creativity, research skills, and problem solving). The emphasis in 10th grade was science skills, hands-on projects, peacestudies/travel, study/classroom skills (took two cc classes and we did a unit on studying). The emphasis in 11th grade (now) is French, learning to apply those study skills to harder classes, and external proof for college applications. Next year, the emphasis will be on managing a fuller load of cc classes. I would LOVE to have him continue the lighter all-at-home academic load that allowed him to build interesting inventions and spend months in other countries. His skill at that increases every year. But I am afraid to send him straight to university without the transition of community college classes, despite their changing the entire nature of his education.

 

So - all that isn't what you are trying to do, but contains some of the same sorts of choices. Maybe it will give you some ideas of the sorts of things one can do to make everything fit or to individualize.

 

Nan

Edited April 18, 2012 by Nan in Mass

[Nscribe]

With one beginning 9th grade next year, I can offer the perspective of being on the threshold but not thru the door.

 

I am thrilled we emphasized physics in middle school. It was fun, it fit well with logic stage thinking and it encouraged Dd to pick up the pace in math a bit. She saw the utility as she wanted to understand and solve. We still did some chemistry and biology along the way, but phyics was the dominate theme. Formally doing chemistry and biology next year comes with a much higher comfort level.

 

The thing I pat myself on the back for doing is buying really cheap used copies of college/high school subject text when we started middle school. It helped to have them at arms length, as I weighed which choices year by year. As it turned out, we both used them a good bit here and there for reference along the way. Dd often read them just because. I spent $110.00 on 10 subject areas, but I know I saved a great deal along more the way, by being able to weed out what wouldn't build the foundations we wanted. (Regentrude's idea of using the problem sets from them to create tests for our "real" materials makes them continue to have a use). I don't know what value to place on just having a general sense of where it all was leading gave me as we worked thru middle school, but it would be a high value.

 

There is so much that we can't control the timing on along the way. Who can accurately predict when all the "becoming" parts of teenagedom will enter the scene? Oh, wouldn't it be nice to have an accurate pacing guide for life?

 

The other bit I am glad for is that we made lots of time to try new things, even ones that didn't seem immediately interesting. It really helped Dd to choose some areas she would her focus energy and effort beyond academics as she is entering high school. Some were predictable, others not so much. As it turns out, many high school extracurricular type activities need (or benefit from) pre-req's and it helped to have the groundwork in place.

[mo2]

Wow, Nan, what a great post. You've given me (and I'm sure others) a lot to think about.

[Nan in Mass]

I second the physics emphasis in middle school. My son has mentioned several times this year that the Hewitt's Conceptual Physics we did then has given him a leg up in his community college chemistry class. And many of the other inventing/experimenting projects he did during 9th and 10th depended on his having that information. It also lets me send him into calc-based community college physics without having done high school physics first.

 

I also second having textbooks on hand. We have the dragonfly cover bio (from the swop shop at the transfer station) and Hewitt's Physics and Hewitt's Chemistry. They made very good reference books and helped me to see what sort of things he would need to know and be able to do later. Hewitt's Physics made a really good reference book for natural history because it covers things like seasons and tides. It has places where it glosses over or simplifies beyond usefulness, but far fewer of them than, say, the high school bio book, which was practically useless for anything to do with genetics, so much so that I told my youngest not to read it. I tried to use it with my oldest and we wound up resorting to getting my mother to explain it using my sister's college text. Not exactly up-to-date information, but at least it was accurate enough to be able to understand the process, unlike the bio book I had. That is why for the youngest, I used college non-major texts for chem and physics.

 

Nan

[Nscribe]

We chose to use 8th grade to do a very focused study in ancient history and corresponding literature. This allows us to enter 9th grade at the middle of the Middle Ages. I could not imagine trying to do World History/Literature from "pre-history" thru Y2K in one year, and do cover it as we wanted. Frankly, it will be more rushed than I would like to cover what we have remaining, even with the other now done.

 

When I looked at Biology, I had a similar reaction. "There is far more here than I want to tackle in one year." We spent a good bit of time this year (8th grade) on cellular processes, biochemistry topics and will spend the summer on anatomy/physiology. It was having those texts on hand that gave the wake up call and led me to plan in this manner.

 

Dd would not have been ready in 6th/7th to really do this, but by 8th she was. I could not have planned it exactly this way when looking a couple of years ago, but having a general roadmap exposed what might be possible.

 

On the other hand, I found composition to be a whole lot harder to "plan". Maturity has been such a huge factor in her development as a "writer". I am not sure how to really plan backwards for it. It is one thing to know that ultimately they need to be able to contstuct short answers, essays, concrete descriptive writing and communicate research effectively. It is another to methodically do it.

[Nan in Mass]

...On the other hand, I found composition to be a whole lot harder to "plan". Maturity has been such a huge factor in her development as a "writer". I am not sure how to really plan backwards for it. It is one thing to know that ultimately they need to be able to contstuct short answers, essays, concrete descriptive writing and communicate research effectively. It is another to methodically do it.

 

I made and then did not follow many plans for writing. In the end, I wound up looking community college placement test as a deadline by which my son would need to be able to do certain types of writing. I had to learn about the different types and then look at what he could and could not do and try to figure out how to help him on a paper-by-paper basis. Ug. It did not turn out to be something plannable (except the final skills list) because my son was not predictable. And as Nscribe said, there were some developmental things that had to happen before he was able to do certain tasks. I think. Or maybe it was my teaching ability that developed. We did lots of things. They helped. Then I would find a new problem and we would find something to fix that. Having a final skills list and having a deadline was the closest I could get to "planning" writing skills.

 

Nan

[Nscribe]

I made and then did not follow many plans for writing. In the end, I wound up looking community college placement test as a deadline by which my son would need to be able to do certain types of writing. I had to learn about the different types and then look at what he could and could not do and try to figure out how to help him on a paper-by-paper basis. Ug. It did not turn out to be something plannable (except the final skills list) because my son was not predictable. And as Nscribe said, there were some developmental things that had to happen before he was able to do certain tasks. I think. Or maybe it was my teaching ability that developed. We did lots of things. They helped. Then I would find a new problem and we would find something to fix that. Having a final skills list and having a deadline was the closest I could get to "planning" writing skills.

 

Nan

 

Phew, glad to know it isn't just me. Why is it they can make such effective verbal arguments for things like...being able to wear makeup, being allowed to go to a party...and completely fumble the ball at times translating those skills to a logical piece of composition? I have considered having all protests of parental decisions put in writing and counting it in some way as credit :tongue_smilie:.

[Nan in Mass]

LOL Most mysterious, I agree.

[grace4me]

In fact, it is usually about here that parents panic because they can look very incompatable. You have to compromise, jump through just enough hoops to get into college or meet your school districts requirements (if it has them) while at the same time making sure that you are not creating an adult who excels at nothing but being a stellar college applicant. If you work backwards, you have a much better chance of doing this. You will also have a better chance at making the right decisions and compromises when your child comes to you with his or her own plans..

 

Well sa!d Nan! What a process.....

[Capt_Uhura]

Nan in Mass Let me say what a valuable asset you are to this forum! Thank you!!!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Phew, glad to know it isn't just me. Why is it they can make such effective verbal arguments for things like...being able to wear makeup, being allowed to go to a party...and completely fumble the ball at times translating those skills to a logical piece of composition? I have considered having all protests of parental decisions put in writing and counting it in some way as credit :tongue_smilie:.

 

Well, I made them write a presentation to justify getting a gaming system. And I plan another essay if they are going to get on Facebook ever.

 

Maybe you could make them present their arguments in writing, and then collect them as work samples.