Big words are holding my son back in reading.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

We have hit a standstill in reading. These type of sentences are holding my son back and I'm unsure of what to do.

 

Sentence:

The Cloisters holds ..... medieval metropolotin museum of art.

 

Or something like that. The book is downstairs and I don't remembr word for word.

How do I get him decoding words like medieval and metropolotin?

[Tanikit]

When my daughter gets to a big word I cover it up and then uncover it in sections she can manage by herself. So Metropolitan would probably be uncovered as metro-pol-i-tan. Depending on how she gets this I may also show her the following: You know how to read this part of this word: tan (get her to say it), what do you think this part says: poli and this: metro. Ok then we can put it all together metropolitan (which we usually say "metropolitan" and then say it correctly as I think most people pronounce it "tin" at the end but that shouldn't affect your child too much) And then of course you must tell him what it means else it is a bit unfair to expect him to read what he feels is a nonsense word when it takes so much effort from him - it needs to be meaningful. Then: Wow, look at that long word you figured out all by yourself!

 

Later on I would teach her to uncover the word herself. It is easier for little ones to do this by just sliding a paper from left to right across the word so you do need to have practised segmenting words properly before leaving it to them else you will still get some strange pronunciations.

 

On another note though: that book seems to have a few too many sticking words: maybe find a book with some long words but not 3 in a row to start with - that is enough to intimidate anyone who is just starting to learn these skills!

Edited April 12, 2012 by Tanikit

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I would recommend first a thorough review of phonics with Rod and Staff Phonics which I am using as a quick, thorough review for ds, age 10 or OPGTR which is also excellent. These could be used with older or younger students. I have ds do multiple lessons in one setting since it is just a review for him.

 

Then I would go on to Megawords Spellng which is sold by Rainbow Resources. I would start at the first book which is for about 4th grade level student. It not only teaches all of the syllabication rules but also teaches decoding bigger words, hence the name.

 

There is also Webster's Speller 1908 version and the phonics page web site from Elizabeth B which is excellent. She has free phonics and spelling courses on her site.

 

Lastly, check out Don Potter's Education page. He has tons of free phonics programs and spelling programs that were used to teach reading and phonics in days of old and are excellent.

[SorrelZG]

A combo of teaching/reviewing phonograms (ala WRTR) alongside Webster's Speller is responsible for my 6yo being able to tackle such words.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Really? He has all his phonics down. He knows all the sounds. We did OPGTR & ETC 1/2 way through book 8. He also did AAS levels 1 and 2 so he has all the phonograms pretty much mastered. It is just the larger words, where phonics doesn't work that he has hard time with. I was thinking of doing what the first poster said and just helping him break the words up correctly. Do you think just doing that woud work? He is also an excellent speller, and uses his phonics rules to help him spell when needed. If the HIVE thinks I need to redo phonics I will give it a try, but I just don't know that that is the problem.

 

ETA: Most of his reading books are at a 4th to 5th grade level. He has been working his way through sonlights 4/5 readers and understands what he is reading, but when I have him read aloud he guesses at these bigger words.

Edited April 12, 2012 by joyfulhomeschooler

[eloquacious]

The word pyramids in Reading Pathways work well for this - check your local library to see if you could borrow it.

[SorrelZG]

Really? He has all his phonics down. He knows all the sounds. We did OPGTR & ETC 1/2 way through book 8. He also did AAS levels 1 and 2 so he has all the phonograms pretty much mastered. It is just the larger words, where phonics doesn't work that he has hard time with. I was thinking of doing what the first poster said and just helping him break the words up correctly. Do you think just doing that woud work? He is also an excellent speller, and uses his phonics rules to help him spell when needed. If the HIVE thinks I need to redo phonics I will give it a try, but I just don't know that that is the problem.

 

 

Can you explain more what you mean by "where phonics doesn't work"? I'm not an expert but it may help to understand the problem better. It's just that between knowing the various sounds for each phonogram and an understanding of syllabication, all the words in that example sentence can be decoded, so in relation to your example, I'm not sure what you mean exactly.

 

My son tends to mumble over unfamiliar words at times but in those cases, when I'm with him, I stop him and have him go back over it and help him work through it, encouraging him to remember any phonograms he may be misreading and reminding him of relevant syllabication. Could he perhaps just need to be encouraged to slow down and patiently work through it?

[Kalmia]

It is just the larger words, where phonics doesn't work that he has hard time with.

 

Phonics works for all the words you listed:

The Cloisters holds ..... medieval metropolotin museum of art.

 

C-l-oi-s-t-er-s / m-ed-ie-v-a-l / m-e-t-r-o-p-o-l-i-t-a-n /m-u-s-e-u-m (e is saying its long sound here, probably because it is at the end of the syllable "se".)

 

He can sound any of them out phonogram by phonogram. Or you can teach him syllabication rules to make it quicker. He is perhaps just intimidated by the length of the word. You could go over the reading beforehand and pick out the specialized words you don't think he's going to be familiar with and introduce them before he does the reading. (Kind of like Jim Trelease does for the parent in his Read-Aloud Handbooks!)

Edited April 12, 2012 by Kalmia

[blondeviolin]

:bigear: My 5yo is at the same spot. Part of her problem, though, is that she is capable of decoding the word, but still has no clue what it means. Lol

[mytwomonkeys]

i really recommend HOP master reader. it specifically focuses on larger words and syllable breakdown. the website has great samples and an explanation of the program. it's computer based, which makes it fun imo. we use it with my son & love it (my daughter used it too with great success). i found ours used for $45. if you have questions, feel free to ask me. hth.

[Tabrett]

I don't think this is a phonics issue. I think it's a vocabulary problem. If you don't know what a word means in the first place, sounding it out correctly is useless.

 

I would look over his reading, pick out the words that you know will give him problems and then go over those word on a whiteboard/paper, write them out as syllables and write a definition. This way, when he reads the passage and the word is encountered, he can use the whiteboard/paper as a reference.

 

I don't expect a child that young to know what those words mean. If they don't know what they mean they become a nosence word and what does it matter if they have pronounced it correctly or not.

[jennynd]

i really recommend HOP master reader. it specifically focuses on larger words and syllable breakdown. the website has great samples and an explanation of the program. it's computer based, which makes it fun imo. we use it with my son & love it (my daughter used it too with great success). i found ours used for $45. if you have questions, feel free to ask me. hth.

 

I am at the end of HOP and going to get HOP master reader next. you can find it on ebay for $29

[mytwomonkeys]

I am at the end of HOP and going to get HOP master reader next. you can find it on ebay for $29

 

that's a great deal!!!! is it the deluxe edition?

Edited April 12, 2012 by mytwomonkeys

[FO4UR]

Dancing Bears. This is especially good for kids who have had enough phonics, but still need a nudge over into applying that phonics fluently.

[Tanikit]

I think it probably is a length and vocabulary issue. The vocabulary issue you may need to attend to either during the reading instruction or before he reads something - if you are still reading aloud to him a lot and explaining where necessary then vocabulary will naturally expand. You could also always get a vocabulary workbook but I think that is a bit pointless if he is reading advanced books.

 

The length issue is always corrected by segmenting words - you can teach prefixes and suffixes to solve some of it and knowing how to chop a word up into syllables usually fixes the rest of it as that also helps with the phonics - if you know where a syllable ends it is easier to know how to pronounce certain vowels. For now though to avoid having to struggle with an enormous concept and practice endless words before actually getting to read those words in books I would just do it for him simply to show him that he can try by himself already.

 

Are you still making him read aloud to you each day?- this is much easier to fix than letting him skip the words if he is reading silently to himself.

 

With my 4 year old who still oftens needs a finger under the word when she reads I slide my own finger under the word and stop in the middle (him-self or in-te-rest-ing) and she has learnt to sound out to a certain point herself and then break a bit to say the next part and when she has sorted out the parts she goes back to say the whole word as a single word.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Really? He has all his phonics down. He knows all the sounds. We did OPGTR & ETC 1/2 way through book 8. He also did AAS levels 1 and 2 so he has all the phonograms pretty much mastered. It is just the larger words, where phonics doesn't work that he has hard time with. I was thinking of doing what the first poster said and just helping him break the words up correctly. Do you think just doing that woud work? He is also an excellent speller, and uses his phonics rules to help him spell when needed. If the HIVE thinks I need to redo phonics I will give it a try, but I just don't know that that is the problem.

 

ETA: Most of his reading books are at a 4th to 5th grade level. He has been working his way through sonlights 4/5 readers and understands what he is reading, but when I have him read aloud he guesses at these bigger words.

 

I would look at Webster's Speller and Megawords. They teach both syllabication and multisyllabic words quite well.

 

As for phonics, I think most students, even excellent readers, should review it every year up to grade 4 or 5. They should know the syllabary and the rules of syllabication IMO.

 

Webster's starts out with the syllabary and then goes on to one syllable words and then up to many multisyllabic words. It is meant to be used over many years and is a gem. Webster's was used to teach reading and spelling.

 

I recommend reading these web sites as they have many excellent articles and resources for free.

 

http://thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/onreadinglinks.html

 

http://www.donpotter.net/education_pages/spelling_books.html

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Thanks for all your replies. Though I understand that metropolitan can be decoded with phonics I do think you have to know how to split the syllables first. He decoded it with phonics while reading it but it came out metro-pole-it-an instead of met-ro-pol-it-an. I think the vocab and syllables is the biggest issue. You have all given some great advice and I think this has been an eye opener for me that I sent him on his way to read silently too soon. I do read aloud at least three times a day though so hopefully that will hellp with the vocab issue. I just am unsure of how to teach him how to break down the syllables on his own. As I know I can't possibly go over EVERY word in the english language with him. I want him to have some sort of fall back to help him decode the syllables.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

I don't think this is a phonics issue. I think it's a vocabulary problem. If you don't know what a word means in the first place, sounding it out correctly is useless.

 

I would look over his reading, pick out the words that you know will give him problems and then go over those word on a whiteboard/paper, write them out as syllables and write a definition. This way, when he reads the passage and the word is encountered, he can use the whiteboard/paper as a reference.

 

I don't expect a child that young to know what those words mean. If they don't know what they mean they become a nosence word and what does it matter if they have pronounced it correctly or not.

 

I think this is exactly the case! I guess I was just thinking there should be some way of decoding words that you don't know the meaning to.

[Tanikit]

http://www.candy4wayphonics.com/Learning%20Syllabication.pdf

[Crimson Wife]

I don't think this is a phonics issue. I think it's a vocabulary problem. If you don't know what a word means in the first place, sounding it out correctly is useless.

 

This is the issue my kids face after they become fluent readers. I started my DD in a formal vocabulary program in 2nd grade because of it. She could sound out any word but the comprehension just wasn't there because she had no idea what many of them meant.

 

I haven't yet started my DS on vocabulary, but I'm considering adding it in after he finishes learning cursive.

[mytwomonkeys]

Thanks for all your replies. Though I understand that metropolitan can be decoded with phonics I do think you have to know how to split the syllables first. He decoded it with phonics while reading it but it came out metro-pole-it-an instead of met-ro-pol-it-an. I think the vocab and syllables is the biggest issue. You have all given some great advice and I think this has been an eye opener for me that I sent him on his way to read silently too soon. I do read aloud at least three times a day though so hopefully that will hellp with the vocab issue. I just am unsure of how to teach him how to break down the syllables on his own. As I know I can't possibly go over EVERY word in the english language with him. I want him to have some sort of fall back to help him decode the syllables.

 

i definitely recommend master reader or megawords. both will focus on syllabication breakdown.:)

[mytwomonkeys]

here's a link to megawords:

 

student book

 

teacher manual (you have to have this)

 

i already linked to master reader, although i would definitely find that used if you go that route.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Megawords looks like what we need, but from looking at the tabe of contents and samples it seems 1 & 2 would be too easy. He already knows the prefixes and suffixes and compound words. Like I said he did ETC all the way up to book 8. In fact mabe I should pull that out and have him finish book 8. Anyways, would it be bad to start him on book 3 in megawords? Another problem I have is that we really like our spelling program (spelling power) and he is excelling with it. So would adding megawords in be overkill?

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Megawords looks like what we need, but from looking at the tabe of contents and samples it seems 1 & 2 would be too easy. He already knows the prefixes and suffixes and compound words. Like I said he did ETC all the way up to book 8. In fact mabe I should pull that out and have him finish book 8. Anyways, would it be bad to start him on book 3 in megawords? Another problem I have is that we really like our spelling program (spelling power) and he is excelling with it. So would adding megawords in be overkill?

 

Megawords 1 is for grade 4 and you will miss all of the syllabicsation rules if you skip book 1.We are doing book one and it is not too simple at all IMO and my ds was tested at a spelling level of about 9th grade prior to using the book.

 

I would do all of the megawords books in my opinion.

[susankenny]

Megawords 1 is for grade 4 and you will miss all of the syllabicsation rules if you skip book 1.We are doing book one and it is not too simple at all IMO and my ds was tested at a spelling level of about 9th grade prior to using the book.

 

I would do all of the megawords books in my opinion.

 

:iagree: Megawords 1 is for fourth graders. Your son will be fine and not underwhelmed by it at all.

 

Susan

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Megawords 1 is for grade 4 and you will miss all of the syllabicsation rules if you skip book 1.We are doing book one and it is not too simple at all IMO and my ds was tested at a spelling level of about 9th grade prior to using the book.

 

I would do all of the megawords books in my opinion.

O.K. It looked like on the samples it taught compound words. From what I saw it looked like it covered much of the same stuff as ETC. Today a word that stumped him was promontory and also impetuous. However he gets words like internationally correct. Do you still think level 1?

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

O.K. It looked like on the samples it taught compound words. From what I saw it looked like it covered much of the same stuff as ETC. Today a word that stumped him was promontory and also impetuous. However he gets words like internationally correct. Do you still think level 1?

 

I do because book 1 teaches the syllabication rules and lays the foundation for the rest of the books.

 

Now if you want something that is free and look at Don Potter's and Elizabeth B's page which also have many resources on syllables and multi-syllabic words.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Here is a great page on syllables that talks about the syllabary, Webster's Speller, and phonics. It also has links to resources on syllables and readers with words divided into syllables.

 

http://thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/webstersway.html

[joyfulhomeschooler]

http://www.candy4wayphonics.com/Learning%20Syllabication.pdf

 

This is good. Thanks!

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Here is a great page on syllables that talks about the syllabary, Webster's Speller, and phonics. It also has links to resources on syllables and readers with words divided into syllables.

 

http://thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/webstersway.html

This is good too. Wish I could get the videos to work.

[Mom0012]

Another program you could consider is Rewards Intermediate by Sopris West. It is designed to help children read multisyllable words. It is often used for remediation but I could also see using it with a young student who needed a nudge to move onto the next level with their reading. I don't think it will help with the vocab issue, though.

 

Lisa

[thegirlwhopaintedtrees]

Really? He has all his phonics down. He knows all the sounds. We did OPGTR & ETC 1/2 way through book 8. He also did AAS levels 1 and 2 so he has all the phonograms pretty much mastered. It is just the larger words, where phonics doesn't work that he has hard time with. I was thinking of doing what the first poster said and just helping him break the words up correctly. Do you think just doing that woud work? He is also an excellent speller, and uses his phonics rules to help him spell when needed. If the HIVE thinks I need to redo phonics I will give it a try, but I just don't know that that is the problem.

 

ETA: Most of his reading books are at a 4th to 5th grade level. He has been working his way through sonlights 4/5 readers and understands what he is reading, but when I have him read aloud he guesses at these bigger words.

 

My DD was having a hard time decoding big words even though she knows her phonics very well. It's a bit of laziness on her part I think. I took all the long multisyllable words in the last few sections of OPGTR and wrote them on index cards and did a few of them with her every day practicing how to decode. After a week, she is doing much better when coming upon such words in her own reading. The skill is to look for little parts that one can say, like one of the previous posters mentioned. I don't think you need to start phonics from scratch!

[joyfulhomeschooler]

My DD was having a hard time decoding big words even though she knows her phonics very well. It's a bit of laziness on her part I think. I took all the long multisyllable words in the last few sections of OPGTR and wrote them on index cards and did a few of them with her every day practicing how to decode. After a week, she is doing much better when coming upon such words in her own reading. The skill is to look for little parts that one can say, like one of the previous posters mentioned. I don't think you need to start phonics from scratch!

How funny you mention this. We just got done doing the first few sentences on those lessons about an hour ago. I like the idea of putting them on flashcards. They aren't on the premade cards are they, I can't remember and I have those.

[ElizabethB]

This is good too. Wish I could get the videos to work.

 

You either need to download the free QuickTime player or use the iPod versions.

 

Also, my syllable division rules and exercises show you how to divide up words, they account for most patterns, links # 6 and 7 at the end of my how to tutor page.

 

Finally, if you work through Webster's 1908 Speller, those 6,000 words contain almost every single pattern for how words divide, if you work through it, you should be able to sound out just about anything, although I recommend also doing my syllable division exercises.

 

After doing the speller and learning the syllable division rules, you should be able to sound out almost any word, even if it is not in your vocabulary.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

You either need to download the free QuickTime player or use the iPod versions

I am on an eeepad and it won't let me download the QuickTime to it and the ipod ones didn't work. I may have to take another look at your links. I remember looking once before but was unsure of how to teach them.

ETA: just looked at your links again and for some reason it makes total sense to me now lol I must have been too sleep deprived with a newborn the last time I looked at it. Thanks! Printing tomorrow and going to give it a go. That combined with lots of natural practice before reading the material will hopefully do the trick. Plus he thought the activities in the last few lessons of OPGTR were really fun and having a good attitude about it almost always leads two success :)

Edited April 13, 2012 by joyfulhomeschooler