Friendships: Holding on vs. Letting go

[QuirkyKapers]

When is a friendship just not worth the effort anymore?

What if you see others around you breaking off their friendships because of the negative and you have been told you should cut it off?

What is the benefit/value of cutting off a friendship versus just trying to set better boundaries or even just limit the activities you do together?

Aren’t there other solutions to just cutting someone off?

Does it make a difference if you have had the friendship for a long time vs. a short time?

Does it make a difference if it is family or not?

 

What if the person:

*Embellishes stories they tell or twisting things around that have happened?

*If you ask about something said that you know isn’t true, slippery as an eel, they cover their tracks.

*Taking parts of your personal story or life experiences and making them

their own? *Changes from going out socially in the evening to talk but is now drinking every time.

* Puts you in awkward situations by things being said or situations that happen?

*Tries to put responsibilities into your lap because they have over scheduled their life?

*Their children and your children are friends,and occasionally say thing that are exaggerated about a subject or twist something that happened so the blame will not fall on themselves but to your child.

 

 

Of course, the above things won’t happen all the time but you can never predict when the awkward or hurtful or manipulative things will be done and there are good things you enjoy like:

 

*Talking about things you have in common religious stuff, raising kids, books read

*Shopping together

*Going to museums or activities with your kids together

Edited April 11, 2012 by Gratefulgal

[WTMCassandra]

I see two different subjects being discussed. I think "letting a friendship go" and "detaching from a toxic person" are two totally different subjects. Your initial questions seem to me to be dealing with a first, but the behaviors described are definitely the second.

 

One can let a friendship go for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it is you making the decision, and sometimes it is the other person. You honor each other's boundaries.

 

However, you detach from a toxic person to prevent their toxicity from spilling over into your and your family's life in destructive ways. This might involve going no contact. However, it is for your own well-being and that of your family. Typically, a toxic person will ramp up behavior to keep you stuck in the relationship and will not honor your attempt at boundaries, detaching, or no contact. The toxic person will pursue you relentlessly and you must be firm about your and your family's need for mental health. He/she will make it as painful as possible. Detaching from a toxic person is not a selfish act, and it is not easy or simple.

[Princess Peach]

I see two different subjects being discussed. I think "letting a friendship go" and "detaching from a toxic person" are two totally different subjects. Your initial questions seem to me to be dealing with a first, but the behaviors described are definitely the second.

 

One can let a friendship go for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it is you making the decision, and sometimes it is the other person. You honor each other's boundaries.

 

However, you detach from a toxic person to prevent their toxicity from spilling over into your and your family's life in destructive ways. This might involve going no contact. However, it is for your own well-being and that of your family. Typically, a toxic person will ramp up behavior to keep you stuck in the relationship and will not honor your attempt at boundaries, detaching, or no contact. The toxic person will pursue you relentlessly and you must be firm about your and your family's need for mental health. He/she will make it as painful as possible. Detaching from a toxic person is not a selfish act, and it is not easy or simple.

 

This. We are currently going through this. You worded it perfectly.

[FiveOaksAcademy]

I see two different subjects being discussed. I think "letting a friendship go" and "detaching from a toxic person" are two totally different subjects. Your initial questions seem to me to be dealing with a first, but the behaviors described are definitely the second.

 

One can let a friendship go for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it is you making the decision, and sometimes it is the other person. You honor each other's boundaries.

 

However, you detach from a toxic person to prevent their toxicity from spilling over into your and your family's life in destructive ways. This might involve going no contact. However, it is for your own well-being and that of your family. Typically, a toxic person will ramp up behavior to keep you stuck in the relationship and will not honor your attempt at boundaries, detaching, or no contact. The toxic person will pursue you relentlessly and you must be firm about your and your family's need for mental health. He/she will make it as painful as possible. Detaching from a toxic person is not a selfish act, and it is not easy or simple.

 

 

:iagree: with all of the above. I just wanted to add that, in all likelihood, once you detach and get some time and distance between yourself and this toxic person, only THEN will you be able to objectively evaluate exactly what damage this person was bringing into your life. I'm not sure this is the case for you, but for myself, I made a lot of excuses for staying in the friendship. It took time and distance to see that my own excuses were a result of chewing up and swallowing lies that this person would feed me. It's almost like a fog was over my thinking, and when I got away it was all crystal clear!!!

[QuirkyKapers]

I see two different subjects being discussed. I think "letting a friendship go" and "detaching from a toxic person" are two totally different subjects.

 

However, you detach from a toxic person to prevent their toxicity from spilling over into your and your family's life in destructive ways. This might involve going no contact. However, it is for your own well-being and that of your family. Typically, a toxic person will ramp up behavior to keep you stuck in the relationship and will not honor your attempt at boundaries, detaching, or no contact. The toxic person will pursue you relentlessly and you must be firm about your and your family's need for mental health. He/she will make it as painful as possible. Detaching from a toxic person is not a selfish act, and it is not easy or simple.

 

 

Yes- you are right. There is a difference between the two. Have you had someone "pursue you relentlessly"? What did that look like? What are ways they could make it painful as possible? I am not trying to be a smart alek here either.

[Princess Peach]

Yes- you are right. There is a difference between the two. Have you had someone "pursue you relentlessly"? What did that look like? What are ways they could make it painful as possible? I am not trying to be a smart alek here either.

 

Constantly calling and texting, FB messages. Trying to get at you through mutual acquaintances and even your children.

[Dolphin]

Yes- you are right. There is a difference between the two. Have you had someone "pursue you relentlessly"? What did that look like? What are ways they could make it painful as possible? I am not trying to be a smart alek here either.

 

They can show up unannounced, befriend your friends so that to separate from them you have to separate from your support system, go to places you go (like your church) and just generally make life unpleasant.

 

I am finally realizing one of my friendships was a toxic friendship. It has taken me two years to finally get free, and only just. I am still waiting for the one big hurrah from her and I have no clue, when, if, or what it will be.

 

To your original questions. It isn't black and white. It is the murky world of grey. Friends who have been friends for a long time (10+ years) and family I would work with boundaries and communication first. Sometimes just stepping back for a little while and reducing contact in small ways helps. New friends, I move on from quicker if they are showing that quickly to be a negative source in my life.

 

Best of luck.

[Leanna Tomlinson]

:iagree: with all of the above. I just wanted to add that, in all likelihood, once you detach and get some time and distance between yourself and this toxic person, only THEN will you be able to objectively evaluate exactly what damage this person was bringing into your life. I'm not sure this is the case for you, but for myself, I made a lot of excuses for staying in the friendship. It took time and distance to see that my own excuses were a result of chewing up and swallowing lies that this person would feed me. It's almost like a fog was over my thinking, and when I got away it was all crystal clear!!!

 

:iagree:

This was exactly my experience and the experience of many I know in the same situation.

[2squared]

What is the benefit/value of cutting off a friendship versus just trying to set better boundaries or even just limit the activities you do together?

 

We all have limited time, energy, and financial resources. Why would you use up your resources on anything but the best? When you leave behind things which pull you down, you make room for things which can lift you up.

[WTMCassandra]

Yes- you are right. There is a difference between the two. Have you had someone "pursue you relentlessly"? What did that look like? What are ways they could make it painful as possible? I am not trying to be a smart alek here either.

 

--Phonebombing.

--Email bombing.

--Finding out your work phone by calling your public affairs office and calling it repeatedly. This was preceded by telling the public affairs office to tell the employee to call xxxxx. (Said employee was 45 years old and could make own decisions about whether to call xxxxx. Let's just say that xxxx was not a work contact.)

--Telling all mutual friends/relatives that they are soooo worried about you and wonder why you don't want to talk to them anymore, and that they have nooooo idea what they could have possibly done. Convincing mutual friends/relatives that you are on the road to destruction because you are not in contact.

--Threatening to call CPS on your family, because if you are cutting contact you are obviously in a "cult." They can't feature you might be thinking for yourself, so if you are not listening to them, you are clearly in a cult. (We homeschool and go to a mainline church.)

--Soliciting mutual friends/relatives to phone and give you guilt- and shame-inducing messages about not contacting them. Otherwise telling mutual friends/relatives lies about you that make them think you are crazy.

--Sending unsolicited gifts and cards with guilt and shame messages. Sending same directly to your children (we did not deliver them but threw them away).

--When there is a health crisis, initiating a series of guilt-inducing phone calls to make the situation sound dire, and then falling away into silence when the situation resolves.

--Hiring a private investigator to find out contact information you have chosen not to share.

 

I could go on and on. Some of the behaviors are still occurring five years after going no contact.

Edited April 10, 2012 by WTMCassandra

[QuirkyKapers]

Yikes! Thanks all for sharing.

[QuirkyKapers]

 

However, you detach from a toxic person to prevent their toxicity from spilling over into your and your family's life in destructive ways. This might involve going no contact. However, it is for your own well-being and that of your family.

 

 

Thanks for this! I have been mulling it over. Yesterday, I read something that said the following, "Many children, even grown-up children, can experience deep anger toward their parents for having protected them too much or too little. When we are willing to confess that we often hand those we love over to suffering, even against our best intentions, we will be more ready to forgive those who, mostly against their will, are the causes of our pain" (Henri Nouwen)

 

This is a huge concern. A toxic person in my life, causing me more work, to guard myself and to never know what experience with the person will be positive and or negative, is one thing. When is starts spilling over to my kids, and they are now becoming the recipient of similar behavior, well, there really is no need to subject them to that type of suffering. And in my mind, toxic behaviors, do create suffering. It is so hard when the kids still want to be friends but you know although right now it is just little things, what happens if it becomes a big thing that has long term consequences for their life?

 

My problem is that I always try and find the good in any situation and I believe that people can change too. It makes it feel really difficult to totally cut off. However, I am making efforts to decrease involvement. This person has a pattern of always creating new friendships. So, once I give space, more time is devoted to that. It some ways what makes this hard too is that this isn't a short term relationship. It feels really like family because it has been so long.

 

[WTMCassandra]

Thanks for this! I have been mulling it over. Yesterday, I read something that said the following, "Many children, even grown-up children, can experience deep anger toward their parents for having protected them too much or too little. When we are willing to confess that we often hand those we love over to suffering, even against our best intentions, we will be more ready to forgive those who, mostly against their will, are the causes of our pain" (Henri Nouwen)

 

This is a huge concern. A toxic person in my life, causing me more work, to guard myself and to never know what experience with the person will be positive and or negative, is one thing. When is starts spilling over to my kids, and they are now becoming the recipient of similar behavior, well, there really is no need to subject them to that type of suffering. And in my mind, toxic behaviors, do create suffering. It is so hard when the kids still want to be friends but you know although right now it is just little things, what happens if it becomes a big thing that has long term consequences for their life?

 

My problem is that I always try and find the good in any situation and I believe that people can change too. It makes it feel really difficult to totally cut off. However, I am making efforts to decrease involvement. This person has a pattern of always creating new friendships. So, once I give space, more time is devoted to that. It some ways what makes this hard too is that this isn't a short term relationship. It feels really like family because it has been so long.

 

 

I figured I had a choice: 1) My grown children would need therapy because xxxx was not in their lives or 2) My grown children would need therapy because xxxx had caused severe damage in their lives.

 

I opted for #1.

 

Other people I know who think we made a "bad" decision, I hear now through the grapevine, are dealing with big, bad trainwreck issues that I suspect are closely related to still being around xxxx. I can't prove it, of course, but . . .

[Sweetpeach]

A toxic person in my life, causing me more work, to guard myself and to never know what experience with the person will be positive and or negative, is one thing.

 

My problem is that I always try and find the good in any situation and I believe that people can change too.

 

Hi,

So hard to walk these sort of situations out . . . I would pick up a gem of a book by Cloud and Townsend called Boundaries. Some folks feel entitled to your friendship, even if it really costs you so much because of how hard you have to work at protecting yourself. I've just come out of a season like this where I wasn't true to my needs because I was too nervous to face the consequences of saying no-thank-you when I felt like I was being pursued way too hard. It took some work to come to terms with the truth that not everyone is welcome in my inner-circle. You get to decide what is best for you, even when that decision makes the other person angry, upset, volatile. She has to work through her own stuff. It's not your job to protect someone from their own demons.

I hope this situation works out with as little collateral damage as possible.

 

Warmly, Tricia

Edited April 10, 2012 by Sweetpeach

[PrairieSong]

I have known some toxic people in my life, but fortunately, have not been pursued by them. Others I know have. One friend was in a toxic marriage and, as described by a PP, was in a fog until she got out of the marriage and things gradually became clearer. Then she could not believe what she had put up with all those years. When you're inside a situation and so close to it, it does cloud your vision.

 

The behaviors you describe are not healthy and I would not want any of that around myself or my family. It wouldn't matter to me that I had known the person a long time and was "almost like family". I would want to be very far away from all of it.

 

I hope everything works out well for you. Friends have told me the Boundaries books are very good. You also might consider couseling, or just talking to a trusted friend who is very grounded, or perhaps your priest/pastor if you have one. It helps to get an outside view of the situation, someone who is more impartial. Isn't that why you came here?

 

I wish you all the best.

[PrairieSong]

My problem is that I always try and find the good in any situation and I believe that people can change too. It makes it feel really difficult to totally cut off. However, I am making efforts to decrease involvement. This person has a pattern of always creating new friendships. So, once I give space, more time is devoted to that. It some ways what makes this hard too is that this isn't a short term relationship. It feels really like family because it has been so long.

 

 

I am like that, too. I want to see the good in people. People CAN change, but for now, the toxic behavior is continuing. I would distance myself from it, and if in the future the person claimed to have changed, I would have to see very clear evidence of that to believe it. Don't let the toxic stuff ruin your life or your family's.

[JVA]

--Phonebombing.

--Email bombing.

--Finding out your work phone by calling your public affairs office and calling it repeatedly. This was preceded by telling the public affairs office to tell the employee to call xxxxx. (Said employee was 45 years old and could make own decisions about whether to call xxxxx. Let's just say that xxxx was not a work contact.)

--Telling all mutual friends/relatives that they are soooo worried about you and wonder why you don't want to talk to them anymore, and that they have nooooo idea what they could have possibly done. Convincing mutual friends/relatives that you are on the road to destruction because you are not in contact.

--Threatening to call CPS on your family, because if you are cutting contact you are obviously in a "cult." They can't feature you might be thinking for yourself, so if you are not listening to them, you are clearly in a cult. (We homeschool and go to a mainline church.)

--Soliciting mutual friends/relatives to phone and give you guilt- and shame-inducing messages about not contacting them. Otherwise telling mutual friends/relatives lies about you that make them think you are crazy.

--Sending unsolicited gifts and cards with guilt and shame messages. Sending same directly to your children (we did not deliver them but threw them away).

--When there is a health crisis, initiating a series of guilt-inducing phone calls to make the situation sound dire, and then falling away into silence when the situation resolves.

--Hiring a private investigator to find out contact information you have chosen not to share.

 

I could go on and on. Some of the behaviors are still occurring five years after going no contact.

 

Oh goodness! This is awful-I'm so sorry you've endured this.

We have also had to make difficult decisions about whether to continue relationships with people or not. Distance and time DO help you to evaluate things more clearly. The above behaviors sound like someone with a NPD diagnosis- Narcissistic Personality Disorder- and very rarely do they seek therapy (in their mind, they're not the problem- it's everyone else) and change. We had one in our family and had to cut contact. Didn't help that most of the rest of the family enabled the individual. Very difficult situations.

 

Oh! And I whole-heartedly recommend the Boundaries books- the main one really helped us.

Edited April 10, 2012 by JVA

[QuirkyKapers]

Thanks- I will check out the boundaries book again. I had read it a long time ago. Also, in talking with my friends outside of the situation, they encourage me to cut it off.

[kalanamak]

We all have limited time, energy, and financial resources. Why would you use up your resources on anything but the best? When you leave behind things which pull you down, you make room for things which can lift you up.

 

For me, there would a looming fear that those who play with the truth might do it in a very destructive way in the future. Life if too short to deal with people you don't trust unless you are forced to.

 

Remember the story of the woman who claimed she was being stalked and harassed by a co-worker, when she was staging it all herself? It went on and on and the co-worker suffered a great deal. Those kind of stories give me the shivers.

[kalanamak]

 

I could go on and on. Some of the behaviors are still occurring five years after going no contact.

 

 

:grouphug: You looked so calm and normal when I met you!

[WTMCassandra]

LOL! Thanks.

[WTMCassandra]

Oh goodness! The above behaviors sound like someone with a NPD diagnosis- Narcissistic Personality Disorder- and very rarely do they seek therapy (in their mind, they're not the problem- it's everyone else) and change. We had one in our family and had to cut contact. Didn't help that most of the rest of the family enabled the individual. Very difficult situations.

 

 

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. Although this person is undiagnosed (as are many since they will never, ever see a mental health professional), the diagnosis seems pretty cut-and-dried to us.

 

That you were able to tell from such a small amount of information shows me that you really, really "get" it. And there's only one way--to experience it. :grouphug: to you.

[Zebra]

I'll 3rd the Boundaries book. It's good to figure out the difference between a friend who isn't a good fit, and a toxic person. It's also good to figure out if someone is going through a rough time or if it's a pattern of bad behavior.

 

People rarely change. It may be that you're just allowing yourself to notice it for the first time. I've been there myself.

 

Life is too short to wast time on leeches! Even if they pursue you relentlessly once they realize you are withdrawing ;)!

[Zebra]

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. Although this person is undiagnosed (as are many since they will never, ever see a mental health professional), the diagnosis seems pretty cut-and-dried to us.

 

That you were able to tell from such a small amount of information shows me that you really, really "get" it. And there's only one way--to experience it. :grouphug: to you.

 

(I didn't want to say it, but I was thinking this too....and I only know from personal experience unfortunately!)

[Scuff]

It sounds like you've outgrown the relationship. Things like embelishing stories and stretching the truth wouldn't bother me. It would just meant hat you can't tell this person anything of substance and your friendship would be very casual. But if they're getting drunk every time we go out, than our definition of fun isn't the same anymore and there really isn't much of a basis to stay friends.

[Sweetpeach]

I'll 3rd the Boundaries book. It's good to figure out the difference between a friend who isn't a good fit, and a toxic person. It's also good to figure out if someone is going through a rough time or if it's a pattern of bad behavior.

 

People rarely change. It may be that you're just allowing yourself to notice it for the first time. I've been there myself.

 

Life is too short to wast time on leeches! Even if they pursue you relentlessly once they realize you are withdrawing ;)!

 

I suspect your last sentence was a bit "tongue-in-cheek" but this has been my experience. Once upon a time, I gave every person I met the time of day, tried my best to get to know them, see their positive slice but what I came to find out is that don't have room in my life for every person that is looking for room. Withdrawing makes people mad so I've come to the crossroads . . . fake it or be authentic about what I can offer a friendship. The latter option creates some stormy seas, that's for sure. I'm much more cautious these days and I guess that's a good thing.

OP, you can "fake it til you make it" but the cost might be heavy, for you and your family. Only you can decide how much of your personal capital you're willing to invest to keep someone else happy.

Warmly, Tricia

[In the Rain]

I see two different subjects being discussed. I think "letting a friendship go" and "detaching from a toxic person" are two totally different subjects. Your initial questions seem to me to be dealing with a first, but the behaviors described are definitely the second.

 

:iagree:

 

Beautifully put!

[QuirkyKapers]

OP, you can "fake it til you make it" but the cost might be heavy, for you and your family. Only you can decide how much of your personal capital you're willing to invest to keep someone else happy.

Warmly, Tricia

 

True! What I have figured out within the last year is, this situation is exactly the type of situations that would happen with my mom. I do believe my mom was narcisstic. I know I was always afraid to say things to her as an adult, even if the things were the truth. The fear of course being in not knowing the reaction, total withdrawl for days on end, anger or other reprecussions. So, the relationship doesn't feel not normal since this is how I grew up. I have often felt that I need to learn how to stand up to this type of person for my own health and not be so afraid of the reprecussions of their reactions. In the past, I would avoid these types of individuals, however they just seemed to pop up again and again. That is why I wondered if I needed to turn around and face my fears head on rather than turning and running the other way. I think if I live authentically to myself, not an excuse for rudeness, but with honesty reagarding my boundaries, not afraid of the reactions, I will have reached a significant milestone in my my life. I have been doing this more, expressing more honesty. Surprisingly, in both situations, they have not pulled totally away. Yes- they have taken a break for awhile from me, no calling or talking, but I am ok with that. In fact it is a relief that it creates space. While the space is being created, they are furiously working at creating other relationships. It may come to a point though, like others have said, it just needs to be totally cut off. Just because I think I should learn how to stand up to this type of person, doesn't mean this is the best course of action in the long run.

[Sweetpeach]

Just because I think I should learn how to stand up to this type of person, doesn't mean this is the best course of action in the long run.

 

ITA with your last thought -- it's a very tricky balance between knowing how much I have to offer, am I willing to take a risk and most importantly, do I know for sure where I start and stop in regards to the relationship? Should I stretch myself a bit to manage a tricky personality so that we have peace over the long-haul.

 

My only word of caution is this: when your outsides don't match your insides, this is always a recipe for bitterness and resentment. Unless you know that you know it's your calling to stretch for a tricky friend, I would press on very carefully. Listen to yourself. We always know what we should do; it's just that we often sacrifice ourselves because it seems easier than having the hard conversation or withdrawing.

 

All the very best,

T

[WTMCassandra]

In the past, I would avoid these types of individuals, however they just seemed to pop up again and again. That is why I wondered if I needed to turn around and face my fears head on rather than turning and running the other way. I think if I live authentically to myself, not an excuse for rudeness, but with honesty reagarding my boundaries, not afraid of the reactions, I will have reached a significant milestone in my my life. I have been doing this more, expressing more honesty. Surprisingly, in both situations, they have not pulled totally away. Yes- they have taken a break for awhile from me, no calling or talking, but I am ok with that. In fact it is a relief that it creates space. While the space is being created, they are furiously working at creating other relationships. It may come to a point though, like others have said, it just needs to be totally cut off. Just because I think I should learn how to stand up to this type of person, doesn't mean this is the best course of action in the long run.

 

If you have been "conditioned" by a narcissistic parent, you probably grew up with some toxic people "built in" to your support system like barnacles, and you tend to "attract" other toxic people. First you have to work on detaching the original narcissist, then the barnacles, and then work on not attracting more. I have found personally that I have had to work a lot on presenting myself differently so I don't attract toxic types. It is VERY difficult.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Forgive me, it's early and I've not had my coffee yet.

 

Did I read clearly that alcohol (isolation + drinking at night) is involved in the other friend? (In the original post)

[TranquilMind]

When is a friendship just not worth the effort anymore?

What if you see others around you breaking off their friendships because of the negative and you have been told you should cut it off?

What is the benefit/value of cutting off a friendship versus just trying to set better boundaries or even just limit the activities you do together?

Aren’t there other solutions to just cutting someone off?

Does it make a difference if you have had the friendship for a long time vs. a short time?

Does it make a difference if it is family or not?

 

What if the person:

*Embellishes stories they tell or twisting things around that have happened?

*If you ask about something said that you know isn’t true, slippery as an eel, they cover their tracks.

*Taking parts of your personal story or life experiences and making them

their own? *Changes from going out socially in the evening to talk but is now drinking every time.

* Puts you in awkward situations by things being said or situations that happen?

*Tries to put responsibilities into your lap because they have over scheduled their life?

*Their children and your children are friends,and occasionally say thing that are exaggerated about a subject or twist something that happened so the blame will not fall on themselves but to your child.

 

 

Of course, the above things won’t happen all the time but you can never predict when the awkward or hurtful or manipulative things will be done and there are good things you enjoy like:

 

*Talking about things you have in common religious stuff, raising kids, books read

*Shopping together

*Going to museums or activities with your kids together

Friends are so hard to come by that I will do everything reasonable to preserve a friendship. I let things go that hurt me, after trying to address them and being dismissed. True, the friendships can be a little cooler. We just reconnected a family relationship after a year. I just told my kids that they should take it for what it is worth, connecting with old friends who may no longer be their best friends. Times change, people change, and some people will never take responsibility for hurting others.

 

I only walk away if there is just no more good stuff that is worth the drama.

 

Some friendships will survive the years, only if both parties are flexible and ultimately forgiving, but most will not, I think. Time does help.

[Zebra]

If you have been "conditioned" by a narcissistic parent, you probably grew up with some toxic people "built in" to your support system like barnacles, and you tend to "attract" other toxic people. First you have to work on detaching the original narcissist, then the barnacles, and then work on not attracting more. I have found personally that I have had to work a lot on presenting myself differently so I don't attract toxic types. It is VERY difficult.

 

 

This is great, and SO true. I think the fact that the OP is trying to ask these questions and trying to figure this stuff out is a very healthy sign, congrats!

[QuirkyKapers]

Forgive me, it's early and I've not had my coffee yet.

 

Did I read clearly that alcohol (isolation + drinking at night) is involved in the other friend? (In the original post)

 

Yes, alcohol is involved when doing activities at night. This wasn't always the case. It changed within the last couple years.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Yes, alcohol is involved when doing activities at night. This wasn't always the case. It changed within the last couple years.

 

Well, now you are talking straight out disease and a whole 'nother world of problems.

 

The only thing I know that works with trying to even sustain a friendship or family tie with people like this is to get involved with Al-Anon and self-educate on how to interact with someone who is alcoholic.

 

And that takes time, sometimes a lifetime of of it too. And there's only so much time in our lives to spread around.

 

I guess you'd just have to step back and look at the overall impact and vote yes or no.

 

With growing children, I'd vote my time goes to them exclusively at the cost of all other things.

 

If that felt right as a decision, realize you are investing IN your kids, and not de-investing in the other person.

 

The line is drawn, (and no, you didn't draw that line, but it's there) now choose.

 

And then move on.

[QuirkyKapers]

If you have been "conditioned" by a narcissistic parent, you probably grew up with some toxic people "built in" to your support system like barnacles, and you tend to "attract" other toxic people. First you have to work on detaching the original narcissist, then the barnacles, and then work on not attracting more. I have found personally that I have had to work a lot on presenting myself differently so I don't attract toxic types. It is VERY difficult.

 

 

I love the word picture of barnacles. That is exactly what it feels like isn't it? The original narcissist is detached since they are no longer living. It is sad to say that although I miss parts of the relationship, I have a sense of relief that I can really be who I am. No pretenses. If people don't like it, well, tough. Take it or leave it. If someone can't handle what I say when it is the truth, than so be it. If they disagree, I am more than willing to dialogue. I don't have too and won't play the games anymore. This really helped me see even more clearly some of what I have been talking about. Is it family systems theory that talks about changing a part changes the whole? It is true that in the past couple years, the people I have become friends with aren't toxic but are healthy. You know it is healthy when you don't have to worry about every word you say coming out of your mouth or wonder when the next verbal or emotional blackmail will occur. With my mom, the verbal zingers out of the blue and the fact that her health issues always trumped mine. If I had said I had breast cancer, she would say she had a brain tumor or someone else she knows had something worse. :glare:

[QuirkyKapers]

 

With growing children, I'd vote my time goes to them exclusively at the cost of all other things. If that felt right as a decision, realize you are investing IN your kids, and not de-investing in the other person.

 

:iagree: This is a great way to put it, investing in my family not de-investing in the other person.

[QuirkyKapers]

Thanks for all the responses! I appreciate it.

[BoZeeCo's Mom]

Wow! Once again, the WTM forum is amazing! I had to cut a close relative off 2 years ago because the narsacistic personality disorder was affecting my family, not to mention me. It is a horrible decision to cut somebody out of your life because they are toxic. It took my 30 years to make up my mind to do it! But, I can honestly say, that even though my children are starting to have questions about where this person is, and I do have run-ins with this persons friends, and even my fancily members, I can honestly say that it was the hardest and best decision I ever made. For 3 reasons: 1. My family is protected and the horror is nit spilling over to my marriage and children. 2. I am happy. For the first time in my life. 3. I can honestly say that I am having the bad parts of that person fade from my mind, and when I think about them, I focus on the good times. It will never be enough to allow him in my life, but it has given me peace I never thought I would have. I am amazed that there are so many people on here that have had to make this heartbreaking choice. I know it takes a tremendous amount of courage. Be courages for your children, OP! And for yourself. Do it for you.

[QuirkyKapers]

Thanks Mary!