Preschooler's Homemade Lunch Gets Replaced with Cafeteria Nuggets

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm going to have to agree with Heather to a large degree. Is the school responsible for the kids or not? If the school is responsible if Johnny gets detention for bad behavior, then it makes sense to look at what he's eating for lunch and see if there's a contributing factor there.

 

 

See, I don't agree. The school is responsible for educating the child and for maintaining certain behavior standards. If the parent packs food that doesn't allow the child to adhere to those standards, the teacher or principal could say "have you considered giving your child some protein with his meals" as a suggestion but would not be correct in supplementing or replacing the child's meal. If the parent refuses to give the child protein etc. and the child cannot meet the behavior standards because of sugar highs or sugar crashes, then the school is within their rights to expel the student. But the focus is on the child's behavior and performance not on the choices the parent made for the child's lunch.

[Haiku]

Is the school responsible for the kids or not?

 

Schools are responsible for providing an education and keeping children safe from imminent harm while on the premises. Just as the school is not responsible for planning my child's doctor visits, the school is not responsible for planning my child's meals. Just because a child is being supervised by the school does not give the school carte blanche to claim responsibility for all aspects of the child's life. How much authority are we really comfortable with asking parents to give up?

 

Tara

[Dobela]

The school is being marked down on its scores for what students bring in lunches packed at home? I can see why they would have to supplement, according to this program. I would also be willing to bet that this is a federally subsidized head start program. If you take their dollars, then you have to play their game.

 

It is.

When I worked at a federally funded preschool center, we had to provide so many lunches per day to receive food funding. We had some picky eaters (it was a center for children with developmental delays including autism) and their parents would occassionally send a lunch or a partial lunch from home if the school meal was such that it would not be eaten. To make sure we would meet guidelines, the child would be given the meal from home AND a school lunch. It didn't matter if the child ate either one, but we had to serve the school meal as well. We did take time to inform parents of this and most didn't care that the child was given both.

[Ester Maria]

I am either responsible for your child's well-being at school or I am not.

From my perspective, you are not. :)

The reasonable degree of involvement would be to ensure that physical violence between children is stopped if it happens, that the child receives medical help if they need, stuff like that - extreme. In my eyes, you are not responsible *at all* for the social dynamics between children (it is a problem to address on PTA and ask parents to talk to their kids about subtle forms of bullying, etc., but it is NOT your job to babysit kids on recess and micromanage their interactions), you are not responsible *at all* for whether they eat or they do not and what do they eat (and I would never dare to call you on it as a teacher - it is between me and my child), and so forth. The only thing I, a parent, am asking of you to ensure are academics and academic honesty as to the evaluation. That is all. Really.

 

Now, in your concrete example, a private school which is if I understand well also a parochial school, and which as thus has some additional values / lifestyle to teach and parents obviously agree to that, there will probably be a greater degree of involvement. But in public schools? Nope. You do the academics and intervene only in extreme cases outside of that sphere, we the parents should deal with the rest. I do not even think you should ensure my child is physically present there in the upper years - I find the practice of tracing absences ridiculous on a high school level. Kids have to grow up and own their education, rather than be controlled all the time.

I can't let one child eat Oreos and nutella sandwiches and chocolate milk for lunch and not allow it for other kids. Can you imagine a school like that? How the kids would act?

I can - I went to such a school. It was fine. Really. :) Children ate what their parents sent with them, or they did not eat at all, or they bought whatever they wanted before school... And nobody really cared. Allergies and such were to be dealt with between the parent and the child, rather than dumping the responsibility onto the teachers, and *most* issues were handled that way, leaving them up to parents' discretion. It is not that you are "letting" a child something you cannot "let" other child - their parents made that decision, not you. As long as those are not illegal substances, of course.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

See, I don't agree. The school is responsible for educating the child and for maintaining certain behavior standards. If the parent packs food that doesn't allow the child to adhere to those standards, the teacher or principal could say "have you considered giving your child some protein with his meals" as a suggestion but would not be correct in supplementing or replacing the child's meal. If the parent refuses to give the child protein etc. and the child cannot meet the behavior standards because of sugar highs or sugar crashes, then the school is within their rights to expel the student. But the focus is on the child's behavior and performance not on the choices the parent made for the child's lunch.

 

I totally agree with this, especially for a private school.

 

Set a very strict standard of behavior. If students can't learn in a manner that allows others to learn, too, put them on probation. Tell the parent that they are on probation for their behavior. It might be a good time to share what you've learned from experience about lifestyle changes improving behavior, but at the end of the day the school's business is how he acts, not what he eats. If the parents won't do something to help junior meet the behavior requirements then expel him and tell them why.

 

As far as the other kids wanting junk food if one kid brings it, I have to cry baloney (LOL) on that, too. I grew up going to school with people who had chocolate milk and cheetos while I had far less glamorous but more healthful food, and I somehow got through the day without being covetous of their food. My mother taught me to think it's none of my business what someone else eats, but I will eat what my mother sends from home.

 

If kids are greedy for someone else's lunch, tell them to take it up with their mother.

 

We're on a one-way trip with this Nanny State thing. The more the state takes over the more the parents allow it, until each generation of parents seems to be even less equipped than the one before to raise their own kids.

[RanchGirl]

Heather does it stop at just food? Do you feel you have a right to make medical decisions that affect the learning of the child and his classmates as well? Maybe fish oil supplements would help the kids learn better and you could implement something like that? (side note, with this kind of power, you could do some scientific experimenting.) If they're not getting enough sleep at night, would you consider having them sleep at the school so you can control that to your standards as well?

 

Personally, I think the parents should have a right to make that decisions, but I find it interesting that you are a person in authority and you feel it's your choice. I would be worried though... if you're able to make those choices, could you be held liable if you make a bad decision or something slips through the cracks?

 

I can see sending a kid home after lunch and giving the parents your opinion on why his behavior deteriorates to unacceptable levels... that would be well within a school's rights and would certainly get the parents attention. But to make decisions for them just smacks of nanny state to me. I prefer to make nutritional and medical decisions for my child. Nobody, even a school authority, knows or cares more about my kid than I do. If something goes wrong, *I* have to live with my mistakes.

 

Sorry to direct this specifically at you Heather, I know you aren't speaking for all education institutions, you just happen to be the only one in this thread with personal experience making these decisions.

[Haiku]

It is not that you are "letting" a child something you cannot "let" other child - their parents made that decision, not you.

 

Exactly. It is not the school's decision, even if the school wishes it were.

 

Tara

[Mrs Mungo]

See, I don't agree. The school is responsible for educating the child and for maintaining certain behavior standards. If the parent packs food that doesn't allow the child to adhere to those standards, the teacher or principal could say "have you considered giving your child some protein with his meals" as a suggestion but would not be correct in supplementing or replacing the child's meal. If the parent refuses to give the child protein etc. and the child cannot meet the behavior standards because of sugar highs or sugar crashes, then the school is within their rights to expel the student. But the focus is on the child's behavior and performance not on the choices the parent made for the child's lunch.

 

(also sort of addressing what Tara was saying) If this was an option, then I would agree. If the school could say, "since you won't remedy these issues, then schooling is on you," that would be different. But, they can't say that. That is what puts me on the fence.

 

Understand, I'm personally friends with parents who have kids in the school system. I hear them all the time griping about how they don't want to be responsible for overseeing homework, how the school needs to provide free tutoring, etc. They get in the teacher's face when their kid is failing. Those sorts of comments and issues are why I can sympathize with the school.

 

Obviously, I have fundamental problems with the school system, which is why I don't send my kids to school.

 

When I worked at a federally funded preschool center, we had to provide so many lunches per day to receive food funding. We had some picky eaters (it was a center for children with developmental delays including autism) and their parents would occasionally send a lunch or a partial lunch from home if the school meal was such that it would not be eaten. To make sure we would meet guidelines, the child would be given the meal from home AND a school lunch. It didn't matter if the child ate either one, but we had to serve the school meal as well. We did take time to inform parents of this and most didn't care that the child was given both.

 

Right. This is *not* public elementary school. It is a *federally funded* head start preschool with specific guidelines. Those guidelines include nutrition standards to which the program must adhere. The kids don't have to eat any of it. The school just has to make sure everything is *offered* to the kid. If you don't want to meet those guidelines, then don't send your kid.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[Homemama2]

The girl chose not to eat the sandwich.

 

Well, she's four years old. Of course she ate the nuggets. :001_huh: If the school is worried about the kids eating healthy, why on earth are they giving them chicken nuggets (b/c we all know that they aren't making healthy homemade ones.)

Edited February 15, 2012 by Homemama2

[Heather in Neverland]

I totally agree with this, especially for a private school.

 

Set a very strict standard of behavior. If students can't learn in a manner that allows others to learn, too, put them on probation. Tell the parent that they are on probation for their behavior. It might be a good time to share what you've learned from experience about lifestyle changes improving behavior, but at the end of the day the school's business is how he acts, not what he eats. If the parents won't do something to help junior meet the behavior requirements then expel him and tell them why.

.

 

So I should punish the child for his parents' poor decisions? A 6yo child, who has no control over what goes in his lunchbox, should be expelled... Kicked out of his school, lose his friends, have to endure starting a new school, etc.... He should be punished because his parents are too lazy to pack a healthy lunch?

 

Really?

 

With my way of handling it, none of that happens. The child stays in a good school, keeps his friends, gets a healthy lunch provided and hopefully, the parents learn to pack better lunches. But they may have to swallow some of that righteous indignation over their "right" to harm their child.

 

 

.

[Audrey]

So I should punish the child for his parents' poor decisions? A 6yo child, who has no control over what goes in his lunchbox, should be expelled... Kicked out of his school, lose his friends, have to endure starting a new school, etc.... He should be punished because his parents are too lazy to pack a healthy lunch?

 

Really?

 

With my way of handling it, none of that happens. The child stays in a good school, keeps his friends, gets a healthy lunch provided and hopefully, the parents learn to pack better lunches. But they may have to swallow some of that righteous indignation over their "right" to harm their child.

 

 

.

 

 

I agree and disagree with you, Heather. I agree that this is well within your mandates at a private school, where parents have made a conscious choice to send their children to you and are paying you tuition. I am sure that you give considerably more attention to the individuals in your school than the vast majority of public schools. That is one of the reasons why someone would pay you to have their children with you.

 

I disagree that the same can apply to a public school. I simply do not believe that a public school has staff intelligent enough, trained enough or with enough time to devote the attention needed to know and to be able to recommend and implement food choices for children in their care.

[Heather in Neverland]

Heather does it stop at just food? Do you feel you have a right to make medical decisions that affect the learning of the child and his classmates as well? Maybe fish oil supplements would help the kids learn better and you could implement something like that? (side note, with this kind of power, you could do some scientific experimenting.) If they're not getting enough sleep at night, would you consider having them sleep at the school so you can control that to your standards as well?

 

Personally, I think the parents should have a right to make that decisions, but I find it interesting that you are a person in authority and you feel it's your choice. I would be worried though... if you're able to make those choices, could you be held liable if you make a bad decision or something slips through the cracks?

 

I can see sending a kid home after lunch and giving the parents your opinion on why his behavior deteriorates to unacceptable levels... that would be well within a school's rights and would certainly get the parents attention. But to make decisions for them just smacks of nanny state to me. I prefer to make nutritional and medical decisions for my child. Nobody, even a school authority, knows or cares more about my kid than I do. If something goes wrong, *I* have to live with my mistakes.

 

Sorry to direct this specifically at you Heather, I know you aren't speaking for all education institutions, you just happen to be the only one in this thread with personal experience making these decisions.

 

The slippery slope fallacy is my favorite.

 

Do I think it is my right? No, I don't care about my rights. It is my responsibility, though.

 

And am I expected to make medical decisions all the time ... By PARENTS.

 

And here is a news flash... I don't want to parent your child. It is a pain in my butt. Do you think I went to college all those years so I could check the contents of lunches? But bottom line is this... It is a GROUP setting.

 

If each parent wants what they think their individual rights are to be abided by then they need to homeschool because every parent wants something different. Some want to completely abdicate all parenting responsibility during daylight hours. Some want to micromanage every detail. We can't please them all so we aim to do what is best for the child.

[Mrs Mungo]

I disagree that the same can apply to a public school. I simply do not believe that a public school has staff intelligent enough, trained enough or with enough time to devote the attention needed to know and to be able to recommend and implement food choices for children in their care.

 

Except, this was not *really* an issue with a public school. Not that I'm trying to beat a dead horse or anything. But, parents who send their kids to headstart are agreeing to certain mandates that come with that program. You aren't required to send your kids to headstart. Many parents use it because they see it as free daycare. But, free never comes without strings in my experience.

[Spy Car]

Right. This is *not* public elementary school. It is a *federally funded* head start preschool with specific guidelines. Those guidelines include nutrition standards to which the program must adhere. The kids don't have to eat any of it. The school just has to make sure everything is *offered* to the kid. If you don't want to meet those guidelines, then don't send your kid.

 

Exactly!

 

Bill

[Jean in Newcastle]

Except, this was not *really* an issue with a public school. Not that I'm trying to beat a dead horse or anything. But, parents who send their kids to headstart are agreeing to certain mandates that come with that program. You aren't required to send your kids to headstart. Many parents use it because they see it as free daycare. But, free never comes without strings in my experience.

 

:iagree: I agree with this.

[Heather in Neverland]

I agree and disagree with you, Heather. I agree that this is well within your mandates at a private school, where parents have made a conscious choice to send their children to you and are paying you tuition. I am sure that you give considerably more attention to the individuals in your school than the vast majority of public schools. That is one of the reasons why someone would pay you to have their children with you.

 

I disagree that the same can apply to a public school. I simply do not believe that a public school has staff intelligent enough, trained enough or with enough time to devote the attention needed to know and to be able to recommend and implement food choices for children in their care.

 

You are correct that the larger and more impersonal a facility is less care goes into making hard decisions.

 

We don't have lunch ladies. My teachers man the cafeteria every day. They know and love these children. They make decisions accordingly.

 

FWIW we don't sit in our weekly administrator meeting, twisting our evil mustaches, thinking of more ways to usurp parental authority. In fact, we spend a lot of time talking about how to make parents take back some of that responsibility.

 

Do you know what is going through my head when I have to tell a parent to stop sending garbage for their child's lunch? I can tell you it is NOT how excited I am to steal their parental responsibility! It is more like "I can't believe I went to college for this." :glare:

 

 

.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

So I should punish the child for his parents' poor decisions? A 6yo child, who has no control over what goes in his lunchbox, should be expelled... Kicked out of his school, lose his friends, have to endure starting a new school, etc.... He should be punished because his parents are too lazy to pack a healthy lunch?

 

Really?

 

With my way of handling it, none of that happens. The child stays in a good school, keeps his friends, gets a healthy lunch provided and hopefully, the parents learn to pack better lunches. But they may have to swallow some of that righteous indignation over their "right" to harm their child.

 

 

.

 

I'm not saying it isn't tragic for parents to be too lazy to feed their kids properly. I grew up in a trailer park, Heather, and I've seen it all. I know the problem. I've lived it.

 

I just disagree about the remedy. I've seen your way, where the church ladies and the school people, who are motivated entirely by love and generosity, turn the neighborhood even slacker than it was before they helped.

 

The responsibility needs to be on the right shoulders. Parents are responsible for feeding, clothing, and educating their children. If there needs to be an intervention, intervene with the parent so the chain of command remains intact if at all possible.

 

When the parent is not behaving illegally, there's not much you can do. You can't call CPS over a nutella sandwich. What you can do, as the person who holds all the cards in a game they want to play (exclusive private education) is to set the bar and stick to your guns. If you want your child to be educated here, prepare him to learn. If you won't do your part, there's a free school up the road for children whose parents don't care. This place is for children who come to school clean, fed, and ready to learn, and that's the parents' job.

 

If the parents need help with feeding, clothing, bathing, or parenting their children, step in and help. Offer adult education courses for any who want to come, and include these topics. Run a clothes closet and a food pantry out of the church. Have a nutritionist speak at PTA night. But keep the chain of authority intact.

 

Some rural American schools in the Depression era, especially in the Appalachian region, dealt with these problems by including the parents in the solution instead of bypassing them. The parents had too much pride to accept the handouts but the children were in need. (These were not rich folks paying for private school. I'm talking about public school, now.) They offered reduced book fees if the mothers would come and cook for the children, but installed a head cook to set and hold the standard for good food prepared in the school kitchen. I read of one school that actually had a vegetable garden out back. The children worked in it, and the mothers cooked the vegetable soup for them. The same could be done for laundering the schoolchildren's clothes. A standard, working together, getting help when needed, taking pride in taking care of their own children.

 

The child is harmed when he's taught that the school is in authority over him above his parents.

 

The parents are harmed when they are allowed to be neglectful because they know the school will pick up the slack.

 

The next generation will do even worse, until school people will be pretty convinced they'd better just set up bunks and have the kids sleep there rather than go home to their lazy and ignorant parents.

[Haiku]

We can't please them all so we aim to do what is best for the child.

 

Abrogating parental authority is rarely best for a child.

 

Assuming that you know better than his parents "what is best for the child" is rarely best for the child.

 

Tara

[Audrey]

Except, this was not *really* an issue with a public school. Not that I'm trying to beat a dead horse or anything. But, parents who send their kids to headstart are agreeing to certain mandates that come with that program. You aren't required to send your kids to headstart. Many parents use it because they see it as free daycare. But, free never comes without strings in my experience.

 

 

Okay. I'm sorry for misunderstanding it. I actually had no idea that "headstart" wasn't a school program. Mea culpa.

[Heather in Neverland]

I'm not saying it isn't tragic for parents to be too lazy to feed their kids properly. I grew up in a trailer park, Heather, and I've seen it all. I know the problem. I've lived it.

 

I just disagree about the remedy. I've seen your way, where the church ladies and the school people, who are motivated entirely by love and generosity, turn the neighborhood even slacker than it was before they helped.

 

The responsibility needs to be on the right shoulders. Parents are responsible for feeding, clothing, and educating their children. If there needs to be an intervention, intervene with the parent so the chain of command remains intact if at all possible.

 

When the parent is not behaving illegally, there's not much you can do. You can't call CPS over a nutella sandwich. What you can do, as the person who holds all the cards in a game they want to play (exclusive private education) is to set the bar and stick to your guns. If you want your child to be educated here, prepare him to learn. If you won't do your part, there's a free school up the road for children whose parents don't care. This place is for children who come to school clean, fed, and ready to learn, and that's the parents' job.

 

If the parents need help with feeding, clothing, bathing, or parenting their children, step in and help. Offer adult education courses for any who want to come, and include these topics. Run a clothes closet and a food pantry out of the church. Have a nutritionist speak at PTA night. But keep the chain of authority intact.

 

Some rural American schools in the Depression era, especially in the Appalachian region, dealt with these problems by including the parents in the solution instead of bypassing them. The parents had too much pride to accept the handouts but the children were in need. (These were not rich folks paying for private school. I'm talking about public school, now.) They offered reduced book fees if the mothers would come and cook for the children, but installed a head cook to set and hold the standard for good food prepared in the school kitchen. I read of one school that actually had a vegetable garden out back. The children worked in it, and the mothers cooked the vegetable soup for them. The same could be done for laundering the schoolchildren's clothes. A standard, working together, getting help when needed, taking pride in taking care of their own children.

 

The child is harmed when he's taught that the school is in authority over him above his parents.

 

The parents are harmed when they are allowed to be neglectful because they know the school will pick up the slack.

 

The next generation will do even worse, until school people will be pretty convinced they'd better just set up bunks and have the kids sleep there rather than go home to their lazy and ignorant parents.

 

 

I appreciate your perspective and I actually agree with you in principle. The problem is it doesn't always translate well to real-life situations.

 

With the particular child I used as an example: we DID give the parents MULTIPLE chances to do better with the lunches. For at least a week I watched that child eat garbage every day, crash and burn every afternoon.

 

I started out subtly. Sending home generic messages in our newsletter about how important healthy lunches are, etc. They didn't catch it (or more likely didn't read it).

 

Then his teacher spoke to his parent about it. No change.

 

Then I spoke to the parents. No change.

 

After weeks of this, I walked into the cafeteria, saw the ring of chocolate around the kid's mouth AGAIN and I personally took his lunch and handed him a healthy lunch and charged the parents. When they picked him up, I told them what I did and why.

 

I guess at that point they finally got the message that we were serious and started sending better lunches. So I wasn't faced with the decision of whether or not to kick him out.

 

If they had not complied? I would have had a tougher decision to make and I would have made it. But I am glad I didn't have to because it would have broken his little heart to leave our school. He's just a kid.

 

ok, off to do my job for the day...

 

 

.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I appreciate your perspective and I actually agree with you in principle. The problem is it doesn't always translate well to real-life situations.

 

With the particular child I used as an example: we DID give the parents MULTIPLE chances to do better with the lunches. For at least a week I watched that child eat garbage every day, crash and burn every afternoon.

 

I started out subtly. Sending home generic messages in our newsletter about how important healthy lunches are, etc. They didn't catch it (or more likely didn't read it).

 

Then his teacher spoke to his parent about it. No change.

 

Then I spoke to the parents. No change.

 

After weeks of this, I walked into the cafeteria, saw the ring of chocolate around the kid's mouth AGAIN and I personally took his lunch and handed him a healthy lunch and charged the parents. When they picked him up, I told them what I did and why.

 

I guess at that point they finally got the message that we were serious and started sending better lunches. So I wasn't faced with the decision of whether or not to kick him out.

 

If they had not complied? I would have had a tougher decision to make and I would have made it. But I am glad I didn't have to because it would have broken his little heart to leave our school. He's just a kid.

 

ok, off to do my job for the day...

 

 

.

 

:grouphug:

 

I forgot you're on the other side of the world. I'd have saved my preaching for later if I remembered you were heading out to the trenches right after reading this thread!

 

I hope you have a great school day and nobody brings nutella sandwiches for lunch.

[Haiku]

Reading this thread and thinking about it, I guess it shouldn't surprise me that people who are taught in college that they know best how to teach children tend to think that their knowledge and authority pervade other areas of a child's life.

 

I don't mean this to sound like a thinly veiled slam against anyone here. It's just what occurred to me in thinking about this and the recent thread about the editorial by the education graduate student who argued that homeschooling should be done away with because only the experts can properly educate children.

 

Tara

[TXMary2]

I was listening to Limbaugh( it helps me to understand some of my ignorant relatives ) today, and he's spouting off that "FEDERAL agents confiscated a child's lunch..."

 

That's bull. He said no such thing. The bashing of the right gets pretty tiresome. I thought this kind of c**p wasn't allowed on this board.

[ravinlunachick]

For those who'd like to read this story from a website that doesn't *appear* to have an overt agenda:

 

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/10731857/

 

Confusion over a state assessment of a government-funded pre-kindergarten program caused the child to believe she had to go through the cafeteria line and get the chicken nuggets lunch provided by the school, said Bob Barnes, assistant superintendent for curriculum and instruction in Hoke County.

 

 

 

The assessment requires the school to review children's lunches for nutrition, Barnes said. If a homemade lunch is determined to be missing one of the food groups required by United States Department of Agriculture regulations, the school is supposed to offer it to the student for free.

 

"What is supposed to happen is the teacher is supposed to go over and get the missing item, which I'm assuming was milk in this case, and offer it to the child," Barnes said. "The child can take it or not take it."

 

But the girl wound up getting put in the lunch line to get a full lunch, Barnes said.

 

"I don't know whether the child was confused. I don't know whether the teacher gave poor direction. I don't know, but again, that child thought she had to go through the line," he said. "If there's a mistake, that's our mistake."

[Lang Syne Boardie]

That's bull. He said no such thing. The bashing of the right gets pretty tiresome. I thought this kind of c**p wasn't allowed on this board.

 

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/02/14/federal_agents_inspect_your_child_s_lunch

 

The bashing is getting on my nerves, too, but he did say it.

[Haiku]

That's bull. He said no such thing. The bashing of the right gets pretty tiresome. I thought this kind of c**p wasn't allowed on this board.

 

Um ... yes he did.

 

ETA: Interesting article, that. The associate director of the Michigan Elementary and Middle School Principals Association on record saying that parents may not know what's best for their children. From the horse's mouth ...

 

Tara

Edited February 16, 2012 by TaraTheLiberator

[zaichiki]

Reading this thread and thinking about it, I guess it shouldn't surprise me that people who are taught in college that they know best how to teach children tend to think that their knowledge and authority pervade other areas of a child's life.

 

I don't mean this to sound like a thinly veiled slam against anyone here. It's just what occurred to me in thinking about this and the recent thread about the editorial by the education graduate student who argued that homeschooling should be done away with because only the experts can properly educate children.

 

Tara

 

I don't think you slammed anyone. I was a classroom teacher. I didn't notice how that point of view was slowly being infused into my brain... it started in teacher's college and continued once I was in the schools. It was reinforced in department meetings, IEP meetings, and at professional development workshops. After I had my own child I saw it. My eyes were opened and I wholeheartedly renounced it. I had to leave teaching. (Well... I had decided to homeschool anyway.)

 

I can't go back to the classroom now. I know there exist teachers who do not think this way, but the majority do hold this view of superiority... knowing what's best for the child (moreso than the parents)... Schools are absolutely steeped in it. I just can't be in that environment anymore.

[LMA]

Okay. I'm sorry for misunderstanding it. I actually had no idea that "headstart" wasn't a school program. Mea culpa.

 

However, Headstart is part of some public school programs and is still funded by our taxpayer's money, just like the public schools. Just because a program is federally funded doesn't mean the government has total control. Why don't people apply this reasoning to other federally funded programs such as Medicare? Using the argument that something is federally funded, then if someone is under Medicare, then the government should tell the person what foods he can eat and what meds he can take and when he has to exercise.

[Haiku]

IEP meetings

 

When my dd was in 9th grade, I told the school that she was reading on about a 3rd grade level and needed reading intervention. At the IEP meeting, they argued with me about this and said she was reading just fine, that they had observed her reading and she was on grade level.

 

I knew that my dd-then-7 was reading better than dd-then-15. I pressed my opinion, and they continued to argue with me.

 

I insisted that they evaluate her. (She already had an IEP, for criminy's sake ... she is supposed to be evaluated every year!!)

 

They did.

 

Guess what? She was reading on a 3rd/4th grade level. She was in remedial reading for 4 1/2 quarters.

 

:cursing::banghead:

 

But the school knew better than I because they had observed my child.

 

Tara

[Mrs Mungo]

However, Headstart is part of some public school programs and is still funded by our taxpayer's money, just like the public schools. Just because a program is federally funded doesn't mean the government has total control. Why don't people apply this reasoning to other federally funded programs such as Medicare? Using the argument that something is federally funded, then if someone is under Medicare, then the government should tell the person what foods he can eat and what meds he can take and when he has to exercise.

 

They *are not* telling anyone that they must eat anything or insisting the child replace their lunch. They are *offering* missing food group items to the child. The school isn't talking on why the child believed otherwise. But, the whole initial story is one big red herring.

[mirth]

Reading this thread and thinking about it, I guess it shouldn't surprise me that people who are taught in college that they know best how to teach children tend to think that their knowledge and authority pervade other areas of a child's life.

 

I know there exist teachers who do not think this way, but the majority do hold this view of superiority... knowing what's best for the child (moreso than the parents)... Schools are absolutely steeped in it.

 

No it does not surprise me at all. Is this not the sole reason that 504 plans exist (and should be negotiated carefully) for students with disabilities or impairments which may or may not be obvious to school staff? It is one way of defining for a teacher or a whole school administration that what they believe about how to carry on with respect to your child ... i.e. to give allow her an equal shot at education ... is less important that what you and other experts who have evaluated this child more fully believe.

 

There is always the thought, which I do not think is examined or explained nearly enough in teaching certification classes on "Or else what ... whaddya gonna do about it?" Non-compliance is a violation of a federal statue. I would think losing federal funding is definitely in the cards. But who wants to be the one to break federal law?

[LMA]

They *are not* telling anyone that they must eat anything or insisting the child replace their lunch. They are *offering* missing food group items to the child. The school isn't talking on why the child believed otherwise. But, the whole initial story is one big red herring.

 

Oh, okay, I didn't read the whole thread. I just read the news stories. Perhaps it is a huge mountain out of a molehill?

[Dustybug]

I agree that this was a mistake on the school's part.

 

However, I'm mainly posting because some of things I'm reading on this thread are passing some pretty harsh judgements on chicken nuggets, HFCS, and store-bought applesauce in wasteful little plastic cups :w00t:. We eat plenty of healthy food made from scratch but sometimes we also eat Tyson chicken nuggets, applesauce in plastic cups, and juice sweetened with HFCS. I'm just so ignorant and irresponsible.....some government program should be created so someone can come to my house, take away the junk I feed my poor kids, and provide alternatives that are acceptable to a more enlightened group of people ;).

 

I eat that stuff sometimes too. To me, it isn't necessarily that they gave her a chicken nugget, but that they gave it to her as a "healthy" replacement to her lunch.

 

 

If you speak to the parents and they still send the same lunch, you have no right to switch the lunch. You can send the child home for poor behavior and point out that it might be due to the lunch. I could even get behind you giving the kid a sandwich in addition to the lunch his parents sent. To completely switch it is going too far.

 

:iagree:

 

 

 

And that right there is the crux of what I dislike about schools: the idea that schools get to dictate family lifestyle. Schools exist to educate students. They do not exist to parent children. Threatening to kick a child out of your school because you don't like his parents' nutrition choices is blackmail: do it my way or suffer the consequences. I think schools need a big dose of "mind your place."

 

I feed my kids unhealthy food sometimes. I think most people do. That's not the point of this discussion, imo. To me, the point of the discussion about this specific incident is that schools are supposed to provide kids with healthy meals, and they don't. So it doesn't really matter if HFCS-laden applesauce is readily available at the grocery. Schools should provide better if they are going to provide anything. BUT! If the parent chooses to bypass the school lunch, it is none of the school's business.

 

Every time I discuss something like this with anyone even remotely teacherly, I get the same tired line about how schools are the last defense for these legions of downtrodden children whom NO ONE except the martyred school employees are looking out for. I'm tired of hearing that, and the hubris inherent in such statements is tiresome. My kids don't need to be protected from me.

 

Tara

 

Tara

 

:iagree:

 

Ah. But that is not what I said, is it? I said send your child with a healthy lunch or I will provide one and charge your account. If the parent is unhappy they are free to leave but I never said I would kick anyone out.

 

I wouldn't. I would just keep giving them healthy lunches and charging the parents until they finally woke up and did the right thing. ;)

 

But if YOU make the decision, I think it is even further outside your rights to then CHARGE the parents for the choice you made unless it is the paperwork they fill out when they sign their child up to attend there.

 

See, I don't agree. The school is responsible for educating the child and for maintaining certain behavior standards. If the parent packs food that doesn't allow the child to adhere to those standards, the teacher or principal could say "have you considered giving your child some protein with his meals" as a suggestion but would not be correct in supplementing or replacing the child's meal. If the parent refuses to give the child protein etc. and the child cannot meet the behavior standards because of sugar highs or sugar crashes, then the school is within their rights to expel the student. But the focus is on the child's behavior and performance not on the choices the parent made for the child's lunch.

 

:iagree:

 

I totally agree with this, especially for a private school.

 

Set a very strict standard of behavior. If students can't learn in a manner that allows others to learn, too, put them on probation. Tell the parent that they are on probation for their behavior. It might be a good time to share what you've learned from experience about lifestyle changes improving behavior, but at the end of the day the school's business is how he acts, not what he eats. If the parents won't do something to help junior meet the behavior requirements then expel him and tell them why.

 

As far as the other kids wanting junk food if one kid brings it, I have to cry baloney (LOL) on that, too. I grew up going to school with people who had chocolate milk and cheetos while I had far less glamorous but more healthful food, and I somehow got through the day without being covetous of their food. My mother taught me to think it's none of my business what someone else eats, but I will eat what my mother sends from home.

 

If kids are greedy for someone else's lunch, tell them to take it up with their mother.

 

We're on a one-way trip with this Nanny State thing. The more the state takes over the more the parents allow it, until each generation of parents seems to be even less equipped than the one before to raise their own kids.

 

:iagree: especially with the bolded.

 

 

And on a side note, I started my first long thread! lol:tongue_smilie: