Proper reaction to dog bite?

[LaxMom]

I believe the OP said that the child was "loving on" the dog. The child is the one who was bitten. In my book that is an attack.

 

I once kicked someone in the throat trying to get away while he was holding me down and tickling me. He outsized me, out powered me and I couldn't calmly extricate myself. I like to think I have higher mental powers than a dog, but there you go.

 

My 10 year old sat on our dog (quite by accident, she wouldn't intentionally sit on her) and provoked a bite. And then the 10 year old was distraught because she hurt and frightened the dog. (our dog is not aggressive, she was sleeping in a chair when a 80 lb person landed on her, and reacted in the same way I would if someone twice my size landed on me without warning)

[ktgrok]

I have a dog, too. If she *ever* bit one of the kids, self-defense, achiness, or whatever, she'd be gone that day. We just do not have the type of life situation where I would be able to be in the same room with the dog all the time. I *have* to be able to trust that my dog and my kid can be together without the child getting bitten. I cannot keep an animal that bites (whether it's a dog or some other animal -- we have livestock and have had to get rid of roosters that have attacked the children).

 

There is no such thing as a dog that will never bite. every dog has its limit.

[LauraGB]

Hi all, OP here.

 

Thank you for all of your input and advice. I can see why I have been second guessing this all day, opinions are pretty diverse.

 

Don't want to be the thought police, but maybe we should just let this thread die. I don't want to be starting anything.

 

Again, thank you all. I love having such a passionate group to bounce ideas off of.

 

Okay.

:grouphug:

[ktgrok]

OP, you did the right thing. You need to keep the kid and the dog separate when you are not there, but that goes for ANY dog and any kid. Too many chances for something to happen to one or the other. For all you know your child shoved his arm in the dog's mouth! (I've seen kids do this).

 

As for "letting him get away with it", punishing the dog wouldn't fix a darned thing. A REALLY good read on why dog's bite, keeping safe, etc is The Culture Clash, by Jean Donaldson.

[jujsky]

We had the same thing happen with my DD when she was 2 or 3. She was whipping a rope right near the dog and got in his face (dog had been abused in a previous home). When she'd get too rambunctious he would snap the air sometime, but either he was totally freaked out and nipped, or meant to snap the air and got her nose. I yelled at the dog, scooped up DD, and got her cleaned up and bandaged. We didn't get rid of the dog because under the circumstances we understood why it happened. If he had done serious damage or show real aggression (had he pinned her, given her a deeper bite, or nipped her more than that one time) we wouldn't have had a choice. You could tell by the look on his face right after it happened and before I had a chance to yell that he felt horrible. He never bit or nipped either of the kids again.

[ktgrok]

I agree with the pp who said that your dog has to know where he is in the pack. It has to be very clear that it is NEVER acceptable for him to bite an alpha (and he must see your child as an alpha).

 

 

 

This is a totally disproven theory, but even if it wasn't, yes, subordinate dogs do bite the alpha, IF the alpha attacks them. They don't just lay there and let themselves be attacked. And it sounds like the kid did the attacking here.

[sassenach]

I would have reacted exactly the same as you did. I have told my kids that if our chihuahua bites them, it's their fault for not heeding his warnings. We got the chihuahua when ds9 was 3 and he did get bit, and it taught him to respect the dog's warnings.

[ktgrok]

A dog can run. A dog can "take it." A dog should never try to bite its master or a more senior member of its pack. I believe, in dog social hierarchy, this is a *huge* no-no... and lower-level dogs would be killed (by the alpha), severly mauled, or chased from the pack for this transgression. Someone who knows more about dog social hierarchy, please correct me if I am wrong.

 

You are wrong :)

 

Total myth perpetuated by bad trainers and modern television shows. The idea that there is one "alpha" in a dog pack that bosses the other dogs around has been totally disproved.

[Mommyof4ks]

I think you did the right thing. Make sure your son knows that when the dog growls, she has had enough and the child must leave the dog alone. My dog did that as she got older, and the kids knew that when she growled she wanted to be left alone. Each child was snapped at once before they really got it, and marks were left, but she had no intention of tearing my kids apart, just letting them know to respect her wishes. The fact that your son is more careful today shows the dog got her point across and your son learned the lesson. ;)

[ktgrok]

 

Yes, maybe your son was bothering him. But even if your son was really hurting him, he should never be allowed to bite him. He can get up and move, or yelp loudly and you'll come running to rescue him.

The dog DID vocalize first, and no one came to help him.If the kid was ON him, as it sounds, he couldn't get away either.

 

I corrected my dogs if they ever even growled at the kids. Because that is a threat, just a precursor to a bite.

Unfortunately that is a REALLY good way to teach a dog to bite without warning. All those stories of dogs that bite without even growlign to warn you? Often they are dogs that were punished for growling. They don't learn to like what is happening, they learn to be silent.

 

Again, if they don't like what's going on they can move (usually). I wanted them to know long before they thought about biting that they were not allowed to even THINK about it (with that growl).

 

That could work....or it could backfire and they are still thinking about it, just silently.

 

I would have grabbed the dog's muzzle firmly and given it a shake, gotten close and stared him in the eye, while saying "NO bite. NO".

 

Again, might work. Or might escalate things and could result in the person you are giving this advice to to be bitten on the face or hand badly. Please don't ever tell someone to do this. If the dog they are dealing with really does have an agression issue this could lead to a horrible outcome. And then maybe put him outside for a bit. This is assuming you were there within a minute or so of the bite.

 

Sorry this happened. Very scary.

 

I wanted to add that it sounds like the dog has good bite inhibition, in that he didn't break the skin. He could easily break a bone, so the fact that he didn't break the skin means he wasn't trying to really hurt the boy. That is a good sign.

 

Get the dog some pain meds for the arthritis, and keep the kid and dog separate, like we ALL should do.

[zaichiki]

You are wrong :)

 

Total myth perpetuated by bad trainers and modern television shows. The idea that there is one "alpha" in a dog pack that bosses the other dogs around has been totally disproved.

 

 

Okay.

 

Let me give everyone some background about our experience with our dog, who was adopted from the streets of Puerto Rico, and who bit *at* a baby in her previous residence.

 

Our neighbors adopted her from a humane society (she was flown there from PR, where she had been rescued from a life on the streets).

 

They fed her while they were cooking, let her sit near them at the table to catch falling crumbs, let her push past them to go in/out, didn't train her reliably to sit/stay/come, AND let her lay on the sofa. One day their toddler was running up to the sofa and throwing himself against it. Repeatedly. She was sitting up there and was clearly annoyed by his behavior. She bit out at him, just grazing his cheek (leaving no marks). She *could* have bitten him, no doubt. The mother told the father the dog was OUT that very day. The father came to tell us that the dog was "too much" for his wife and was told that it was "him or the dog." We never knew about ANY of the above until later.

 

She came to live with us. Immediately went to weekly obedience classes with our whole family where the trainer told us that she needed to see that we (especially the children) were her masters. She needed to feel that in order to obey us.

 

In our house the children feed the dog. She gets no food or water except from them and she must wait for them to say "okay." She NEVER eats first. They also give her treats, for which she must work (obedience work). She NEVER eats dropped people scraps unless invited. (She was trained, in the obedience lessons, to keep a piece of food on her nose and not eat it until she was given permission.) She is NEVER allowed to sit near us while we are eating. She NEVER sits on any furniture. She ALWAYS goes in and out AFTER any person who might also be entering/exiting. She is allowed her "place" on a cushion in a basket under a table. The kids are not allowed in there. They must call her to them in order to love on her. I try to supervise all interaction with her and our toddler, but I cannot always be there. She has never even tried to nip at or growl at any child in my house. If she did (please notice that I KNOW any dog is CAPABLE of biting) I wouldn't be able to keep her. I absolutely place my kids' safety above hers.

[In2why]

Hi all,

 

We had a dog bite incident yesterday. I thought I handled it properly at the time, but now that I've had time to think on it, I wonder if I did.

 

We have a 10 year old, 30 lb. beagle who is getting old. Not grouchy or crotchety. But achy, sleepy, set in his ways. I also have a very rough and tumble 3 year old boy who is completely in love with the dog. And usually the dog is very tolerant of the boy's affections and the love can get rough. We always remind the boy to use gentle hands and intervene when the dog seems to be getting annoyed.

 

But yesterday, during school, ds was loving on the dog while he was in his bed and I wasn't there to tell him to back him off. I heard the dog give a warning grumble, which usually makes the boy stop. But I guess he didn't, because I heard a bark and the boy crying hysterically. He'd been bitten once on the forearm. By the time I got in the room the dog had his tail between his legs and was slinking off, he obviously knew he'd crossed a line. I checked the boy and there were no wounds, he was just really upset.

 

I cuddled him till he calmed down and basically (but kindly) told him that he got what he deserved and that he knows to be gentle to the dog. He agreed, apologized to the dog :D and I settled the dog down to let him know he wasn't in trouble.

 

But now I wonder if I shouldn't have "taken the boy's side." Should I have scolded the dog? He never bites, I think it was just a protective reaction. But if I let him get away with it once, maybe he'll do it again. At the same time, I also want to teach ds that when dogs say no, they mean it and to leave them alone.

 

WWYD? Am I overthinking this?

 

 

I think you handled it fine. The dog was using its normal protection, and the child also learned a lesson. This is an older dog, and also a smaller dog. If it was younger or larger with a potential to do serious damage I would get rid of the dog, or likely beat it half to death. I know there are gasps at that response, but dogs are pack animals and must know where they stand in the pack. In the animal world the pack leader would have corrected the animal with pain as well. Also if you do get rid of a dog you must know that they dog is likely to be put down because no one is going to want a go that bites. I would rather err on the side of letting the dog know that I am Alpha, and that the child come higher in the pecking order.

 

 

So anyways, I would let this incident go with a reminder to the child that the dog is old and needs gentleness and will growl when the child needs to back off.

[In2why]

A dog can run. A dog can "take it." A dog should never try to bite its master or a more senior member of its pack. I believe, in dog social hierarchy, this is a *huge* no-no... and lower-level dogs would be killed (by the alpha), severly mauled, or chased from the pack for this transgression. Someone who knows more about dog social hierarchy, please correct me if I am wrong.

 

 

I wouldn't say I know more.....but I agree. Dogs are pack animals.

 

I wouldn't get rid of this dog, yet, but as I said the size and age have a lot to do with my opinion. If my dog bit a child, any child, I would put her down.

[ktgrok]

Okay.

 

Let me give everyone some background about our experience with our dog, who was adopted from the streets of Puerto Rico, and who bit *at* a baby in her previous residence.

 

AND let her lay on the sofa. One day their toddler was running up to the sofa and throwing himself against it. Repeatedly. She was sitting up there and was clearly annoyed by his behavior. She bit out at him, just grazing his cheek (leaving no marks). She *could* have bitten him, no doubt.

 

This has little or nothing to do with the dog being "alpha" and much to do with the dog having no ability to deal with frustration. It IS important to teach a dog impulse control, which a lot of the "alpha" programs teach, although perhaps not on purpose. However, that has little to do with pack hierarchy and everything to do with not going around acting like a sociopath.

 

I hope that makes sense. Dogs that are allowed on the furniture can be very nice dogs with no "dominance" issues, but dogs that are totally untrained with poor manners are obnoxious and can be a danger, no matter where they like to sleep. I just wanted to clarify that, so that my diatribe against the disproven, outdated dominance theory makes it sound like I allow my dogs to run wild. I

[Samiam]

Okay.

 

Let me give everyone some background about our experience with our dog, who was adopted from the streets of Puerto Rico, and who bit *at* a baby in her previous residence.

 

Our neighbors adopted her from a humane society (she was flown there from PR, where she had been rescued from a life on the streets).

 

They fed her while they were cooking, let her sit near them at the table to catch falling crumbs, let her push past them to go in/out, didn't train her reliably to sit/stay/come, AND let her lay on the sofa. One day their toddler was running up to the sofa and throwing himself against it. Repeatedly. She was sitting up there and was clearly annoyed by his behavior. She bit out at him, just grazing his cheek (leaving no marks). She *could* have bitten him, no doubt. The mother told the father the dog was OUT that very day. The father came to tell us that the dog was "too much" for his wife and was told that it was "him or the dog." We never knew about ANY of the above until later.

 

She came to live with us. Immediately went to weekly obedience classes with our whole family where the trainer told us that she needed to see that we (especially the children) were her masters. She needed to feel that in order to obey us.

 

In our house the children feed the dog. She gets no food or water except from them and she must wait for them to say "okay." She NEVER eats first. They also give her treats, for which she must work (obedience work). She NEVER eats dropped people scraps unless invited. (She was trained, in the obedience lessons, to keep a piece of food on her nose and not eat it until she was given permission.) She is NEVER allowed to sit near us while we are eating. She NEVER sits on any furniture. She ALWAYS goes in and out AFTER any person who might also be entering/exiting. She is allowed her "place" on a cushion in a basket under a table. The kids are not allowed in there. They must call her to them in order to love on her. I try to supervise all interaction with her and our toddler, but I cannot always be there. She has never even tried to nip at or growl at any child in my house. If she did (please notice that I KNOW any dog is CAPABLE of biting) I wouldn't be able to keep her. I absolutely place my kids' safety above hers.

 

Sounds like a great dog. Not sure what your point in relation to the quote saying that the Alpha dog is a myth. Your dog is smart, and was trained despite it's earlier lifestyle. And old dog CAN learn new tricks. What's "Alpha dog/non Alpha" about this?

 

Add another 5-10 years to your dog, let a three year bounce, hug, and otherwise give rambuctious three year old human love to it, and then let's see how it reacts. Doubt your children would suddenly become "unsafe" around your dog, especially with the outstanding training you've apparently given it. But I've no doubt that the dog will voice his/her feelings to the human who is being too rough with it at that stage in it's life.

[In2why]

Um, but we're not dogs here. We're humans...and if we want to be nitty-gritty, we took the dog from his natural pack environment, so it's not as if we can hold him to the "pack standard". We're expecting a family pet to act a bit more civilized, as should we act a bit more civilized than a pack of dogs.

 

Don't really get the point of that at all.

 

BTW, I am on the dog's side, as I feel he should have a right to let it be known to "stop hurting me".

 

 

Of course we aren't dogs, but if you have ever needed to control an animal that is bigger, stronger, and faster than you are, then you better know how to meet the animal in terms it understands. Of course we can and should hold the dog to pack standards, especially some dogs. I think it is different depending on whether you look at pets as animals or subscribe to giving them human emotions and behaviors. Neither is more loving, but both are totally different.

[MHowell]

I think you handled it correctly. The dogs body language told you he knew he was wrong, and as the parent of a rough love 4 year old I get it.

 

Both K and D have been bitten by our 9 year old chihuahua. K was around 5 and tried to put him in a box. We could see the wetness from where he bit but no mark. D was around 3 and tried to drop him into a gift bag, once again, we didn't see any marks.

 

Needless to say, neither kid will put him in a bag/box ever again.

 

We do have "safe places" of our dogs and cats. Both kids (and kids who are here enough to get the lecture) know that if the animal is walking toward or laying on their beds they are not to be touched. Ever. We try to supervise all interaction but trust our animals enough to know they are not aggressive in anyway.

 

I'm with the other poster who said if the dog wanted to break the skin he very well could have, and so I would not take what happened as an aggressive act.

[laundrycrisis]

I think you handled it perfectly, but since this has happened, in the future you cannot ever let this child have unsupervised access to this dog.

 

And IMO your dog gave your son a gentle correction. A sincere bite would have been a more aggressive and dangerous act. He sounds like a great dog.

Edited December 15, 2011 by laundrycrisis

[Renee in NC]

I wouldn't say I know more.....but I agree. Dogs are pack animals.

 

I wouldn't get rid of this dog, yet, but as I said the size and age have a lot to do with my opinion. If my dog bit a child, any child, I would put her down.

 

I said I would put mine down, but I'll amend my knee jerk reaction. Really and truly I would give the dog to my mother. She's a lab person (we have two labs) and no children to worry about.

 

My reaction is because of a situation I was close to. Old, crotchety dog bit child. Not a major bite, but a bite. Second time, old crotchety dog bit BADLY on the face. Not only was there a face bite, but it became infected and the child spent a week in the hospital with the infection.

 

I love my dogs, but they are dogs. My dc are WAY more important than the dog. If I couldn't keep the child and dog away from each other 100%, then I choose the child over the dog.

[zaichiki]

Sounds like a great dog. Not sure what your point in relation to the quote saying that the Alpha dog is a myth. Your dog is smart, and was trained despite it's earlier lifestyle. And old dog CAN learn new tricks. What's "Alpha dog/non Alpha" about this?

 

Add another 5-10 years to your dog, let a three year bounce, hug, and otherwise give rambuctious three year old human love to it, and then let's see how it reacts. Doubt your children would suddenly become "unsafe" around your dog, especially with the outstanding training you've apparently given it. But I've no doubt that the dog will voice his/her feelings to the human who is being too rough with it at that stage in it's life.

 

The trainer was very clear in telling us that the dog was being treated as an alpha in her previous home. She got to eat what she wanted when she wanted it. She was able to be the first in/out and have the prime seating. She didn't *have* to obey commands.

 

Once we changed all of that, and made sure she saw the children as her superiors, she didn't feel the need to "correct" their behavior.

 

Dogs, we were told, see children as puppies. They will correct "insolent puppies" the way dogs do: warn/threaten and nip/bite.

 

Just for info, our dog is now elderly (in dog years). We've had her for a long time. The kids can and have gotten a bit vigorous with their love. She slinks away when she's had enough and I do encourage them to let her.

 

There are breeds out there that are much more patient with a child's rough love... maybe they'd be a better choice for a family with young kids... and I understand the OP loving her dog... I can imagine it's hard when the dogs get old/sick. The PP who mentioned crating is spot on. That's a good way to protect both the dog AND the kid from any potential misunderstandings. We've had ours for many years and she is a part of the family... however, if she bites anyone in this house, no matter her reason, she'll never get another one in.

[ktgrok]

Of course we aren't dogs, but if you have ever needed to control an animal that is bigger, stronger, and faster than you are, then you better know how to meet the animal in terms it understands. Of course we can and should hold the dog to pack standards, especially some dogs. I think it is different depending on whether you look at pets as animals or subscribe to giving them human emotions and behaviors. Neither is more loving, but both are totally different.

 

The thing is...the dog KNOWS it is faster and stronger than you. Pretending to be "alpha" doesn't change that. The dog is choosing not to kill you, which it could do at any time, if it really wanted. (well, depending on the dog's size.) In the wild "alpha" wolves don't force or intimidate the subordinate pack members to do what they want, the subordinant dogs offer it up. It has actually been more accurately called a subordinant hierarchy, because behavior is dictated by dogs opting to be deferential. But the heirarchy is very very fluid in dog society, so the dog being "dominant" in one situation may be "subordinat" in the next situation.

[In2why]

The thing is...the dog KNOWS it is faster and stronger than you. Pretending to be "alpha" doesn't change that. The dog is choosing not to kill you, which it could do at any time, if it really wanted. (well, depending on the dog's size.) In the wild "alpha" wolves don't force or intimidate the subordinate pack members to do what they want, the subordinant dogs offer it up. It has actually been more accurately called a subordinant hierarchy, because behavior is dictated by dogs opting to be deferential. But the heirarchy is very very fluid in dog society, so the dog being "dominant" in one situation may be "subordinat" in the next situation.

 

 

But choosing to be subordinate has to be the only option. That doesn't come from force or intimidation, but more from patience, praise, and love, and the very rare correction. In my society of this family it can't be fluid. Because of their ability I can't have aggression in my animals, and if they aren't submissive through choice, they have to be put down. Writing that seems mean, but it is the reality. No one is going to want a large, powerful, aggressive dog.

 

PS. I also wanted to add that I am not pretending to be the Alpha. I control the food, and I give much pleasure. I choose when we go to the beach, when we play hundred of rounds of fetch, and when we Bathe and need to settle down to bed. I take care of the physical ailments, and decide when it comes in the house and goes out. When the animal can do all that without me then we can discuss who is in charge lol

Edited December 15, 2011 by In2why

[celticmom]

Anyone that would blame the dog in that situation shouldn't have dogs in the first place. I'm stunned to see that though I guess I know there are people that do.

 

I would briefly verbally scold the dog but just to maintain order-your dog knew it was wrong and was sorry. I would have dealt with the child the same way you did.

 

Absolutely not is a kid allowed to treat a dog like a piece of playground equipment and the dog can't defend himself. I always have told our kids that the dog is allowed to bite if s/he needs to defend her/himself. Go figure, my kids are excellent and sensible with animals, all animals.

 

If you raise your kids any other way you're doing them a disservice.

 

Of course with a kid that age an adult needs to run interference but no way is it the dog's fault in this situation. Nope nope nope.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[weaver_67579]

I think you reacted well after the fact. It should never of happened.

 

I used to teach dog bite prevention as an AKC Canine Ambassador, counseled people with dog problems, was an obedience instructor and have had 4 dogs-all registered therapy dogs. Hence-not many situations surprise me and I have dealt with this issue-both on the part of the dog and on the part of the kiddo.

 

Smaller children should never be left alone with dogs-ever. This also applies to older children with poor impulse control or who do not appropriately interact with animals. My oldest was not left with my dogs (all well trained therapy dogs) until 6-7yo or so and she was well-versed in how to interact with dogs. My 6yo boy isn't left alone with my only remaining dog (who has never shown any signs of agression-ever)for more than a minute while I run to the bathroom or something. He should be ok to leave now since both he and dog interact well-but he is usually with 2yo. 2yo is never left alone with Buddy the dog-even though the dog adores her. If I have to leave the room, I put up a baby gate to keep them separated. I did see someone mentioned crating the dog. That is not a bad idea if you cannot directly supervise. I like baby gates a bit better-the dog can be out of the crate but they still can't get together.

 

Do a better job of teaching your child/children how to interact with the dog or any dog/animal. Calling doing something hurtful to another living thing loving it is not accurate. It has been 6 years, 2 moves and 2 children since I did the bite prevention stuff. Back then AKC had bite prevention stuff-coloring books, videos (that you can have your library request from the AKC site-individuals could not get them). It is a subject worth teaching to anyone.

 

Are you doing anything to help the dog with the arthritis/soreness? 10 yo is not very old for a beagle. There are a bunch of arthritis meds that really do help. I have had a lot of luck with Glucosamine and Chondroitin supplements for my old timers. An orthopedic bed does help in a nice warm spot. they do make heaters for in beds that you put in the microwave.

 

Personally, I wouldn't get rid of the dog. The dog showed good bite inhibition. With some management, you can prevent this from happening again.

 

Good luck

[gardenmom5]

But now I wonder if I shouldn't have "taken the boy's side." Should I have scolded the dog? He never bites, I think it was just a protective reaction. But if I let him get away with it once, maybe he'll do it again. At the same time, I also want to teach ds that when dogs say no, they mean it and to leave them alone.

 

?

absolutely! dogs are pack animals - you have brought a dog into your pack (family). packs have pecking orders and a dog secure in its pecking place will act on that place. You have taught the dog it is above your son in pecking order, therefore it was okay to the dog to discipline your son. (your lucky he didn't need stitches.)

 

I agree with pps, a dog that bites, especially if it was "just" being crotchety, is gone. that's a liablity waiting to happen. next time, it might be some childs playmate and the parents won't be as understanding about their child being bitten by your dog as you are.

[ktgrok]

But choosing to be subordinate has to be the only option. That doesn't come from force or intimidation, but more from patience, praise, and love, and the very rare correction. In my society of this family it can't be fluid. Because of their ability I can't have aggression in my animals, and if they aren't submissive through choice, they have to be put down. Writing that seems mean, but it is the reality. No one is going to want a large, powerful, aggressive dog.

 

PS. I also wanted to add that I am not pretending to be the Alpha. I control the food, and I give much pleasure. I choose when we go to the beach, when we play hundred of rounds of fetch, and when we Bathe and need to settle down to bed. I take care of the physical ailments, and decide when it comes in the house and goes out. When the animal can do all that without me then we can discuss who is in charge lol

 

I understand that, and that is why we have selectively bred dogs to be very very very understanding of us humans, and to be very very slow to respond to provocation. However, we are misled if we believe it is based on "pack" behavior in wild animals. It isn't.

[ktgrok]

absolutely! dogs are pack animals - you have brought a dog into your pack (family). packs have pecking orders and a dog secure in its pecking place will act on that place. You have taught the dog it is above your son in pecking order, therefore it was okay to the dog to discipline your son. (your lucky he didn't need stitches.)

 

I agree with pps, a dog that bites, especially if it was "just" being crotchety, is gone. that's a liablity waiting to happen. next time, it might be some childs playmate and the parents won't be as understanding about their child being bitten by your dog as you are.

 

None of the above is based on evidence or science. It is based on a misrepresentation of studies done on non related wolves thrown together in captivity,which have since been refuted.

 

The dog didn't discipline a kid because it was lower on the pecking order. It defended itself. Totally different. Now, some dogs will have a much higher threshold of what constitutes a need for self defense, but it has nothing to do with hierarchy.

[Joker]

I really don't get what people mean about the whole "alpha dog" thing. Our dog (a beagle mix) sleeps on the sofa and our bed. He begs for food, eats scraps that fall, and is just about untrainable.

 

Yet, he is the biggest softie. The neighbor dog has come at ours a few times and our dog rolls onto his back and goes toes up. (Neighbor dog is about 1/3 of the size of our dog :tongue_smilie:) If we raise our voice, our dog runs to a corner and puts his tail between his legs. We've had him since he was a puppy so he wasn't abused somewhere.

 

He has never bit anyone and he doesn't seem to have these crazy mixed messages just because he's allowed to be on furniture or misbehave at times. I just don't buy the whole idea I guess.

 

To the OP, I think you did the right thing. You now need to make sure you don't let the two of them alone and you teach your dc how to properly interact with a family pet.

[ktgrok]

I really don't get what people mean about the whole "alpha dog" thing. Our dog (a beagle mix) sleeps on the sofa and our bed. He begs for food, eats scraps that fall, and is just about untrainable.

 

Yet, he is the biggest softie. The neighbor dog has come at ours a few times and our dog rolls onto his back and goes toes up. (Neighbor dog is about 1/3 of the size of our dog :tongue_smilie:) If we raise our voice, our dog runs to a corner and puts his tail between his legs. We've had him since he was a puppy so he wasn't abused somewhere.

 

He has never bit anyone and he doesn't seem to have these crazy mixed messages just because he's allowed to be on furniture or misbehave at times. I just don't buy the whole idea I guess.

 

To the OP, I think you did the right thing. You now need to make sure you don't let the two of them alone and you teach your dc how to properly interact with a family pet.

 

 

Lol, you are right. Dogs like to lay on sofas because they are comfy and close to their people, not because they want world domination. Sometimes it really is just that simple. (says the dog trainer who has a dog currently laying on her bed. Said dog is not allowed on the couch though...but just because her hair sticks in the cushions.)

[Joker]

Lol, you are right. Dogs like to lay on sofas because they are comfy and close to their people, not because they want world domination. Sometimes it really is just that simple. (says the dog trainer who has a dog currently laying on her bed. Said dog is not allowed on the couch though...but just because her hair sticks in the cushions.)

 

:D The whole idea has been new to me since frequenting this board. I grew up with dogs in the house and they were part of the family (on the furniture, fed scraps). They never bit anyone but in their old age they would snap if one of us kids became too "playful". Honestly, the crating and keeping them seperate idea is bothersome to me. That's not why I brought a dog into our home and family.

[ktgrok]

:D The whole idea has been new to me since frequenting this board. I grew up with dogs in the house and they were part of the family (on the furniture, fed scraps). They never bit anyone but in their old age they would snap if one of us kids became too "playful". Honestly, the crating and keeping them seperate idea is bothersome to me. That's not why I brought a dog into our home and family.

 

well, it is as much to protect the dog as the kid, and only until the kids are of an age to be trustworthy with the dog. I think it is asking too much to allow a baby to poke a dog in the eye and have the dog "take it" as some said. The baby shouldn't be unsupervised with the animal.

 

But people also used to be more tolerant, and realized dogs were dogs, not Lassie, and that you shouldn't poke them in the eye and not expect to get bitten.

[weaver_67579]

well, it is as much to protect the dog as the kid, and only until the kids are of an age to be trustworthy with the dog. I think it is asking too much to allow a baby to poke a dog in the eye and have the dog "take it" as some said. The baby shouldn't be unsupervised with the animal.

 

But people also used to be more tolerant, and realized dogs were dogs, not Lassie, and that you shouldn't poke them in the eye and not expect to get bitten.

 

by not allowing them to get into a situation where the dog has to defend himself. As I said in a pp, I prefer baby gates so the dog can be around, but not with the littles. Mine were baby gated in the laundry room, just off my kitchen-where we homeschool.

[laundrycrisis]

well, it is as much to protect the dog as the kid, and only until the kids are of an age to be trustworthy with the dog. I think it is asking too much to allow a baby to poke a dog in the eye and have the dog "take it" as some said. The baby shouldn't be unsupervised with the animal.

 

But people also used to be more tolerant, and realized dogs were dogs, not Lassie, and that you shouldn't poke them in the eye and not expect to get bitten.

 

Yes. IMO it is ridiculous to expect that an old dog should be able to put up with all sorts of roughness from a kid, even when cornered and there is no adult around to intervene. It is the adult's responsibility to prevent this situation from happening. If a dog in this unfortunate situation gives a kid a warning nip on the arm or hand in self-defense, kudos to the dog for showing this much restraint. This is a dog I want to keep, not get rid of.

 

When I was a kid, we knew that when animals are harassed, dogs may bite, and cats may scratch your face off. Adults and kids both had some responsibility for animals not being pushed to the point of acting out. Dogs were not considered disposable just for reacting in a situation in which they had no other means of defense. This is what our own kids are taught. They have both been nipped, and it was a well-deserved lesson from a wonderful, gentle dog.

 

I use a baby gate to keep our dogs separated into their own space from the kids. In one case it's because the dog is very old and fragile, and in another it's because the dog eats K'Nex, Legos, action figures etc. The third dog goes into the dog space voluntarily whenever she gets tired of the kids. I would not be happy with crating anyone all the time, but the baby gate works really well.

Edited December 15, 2011 by laundrycrisis