m0mmaBuck Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I haven't really thought about it because I've known how to do this for as long as I can remember, but long division requires division, multiplication, subtraction, and greater/less than determination... I was at the end of my rope before I opened the book on this today. Now I'm dangling from it. Somebody pass the wine. Momma needs a time out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 :grouphug: Not looking forward to that when it's my turn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudGrandma Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 we are just brushing up against this...with my non-mathy girl....NOT fun...already....oh let the good times roll!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athena1277 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 When I was in 3rd grade (ps), the first day my teacher introduced long division half the class ended up in tears, including me. She was a good teacher, but we just didn't get it. We all survived and I ended up getting a degree in math ed. I'm sure she would not have believed that would happen that day. Long division can be overcome!:thumbup1: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Have you tried the Khan vids with color-coded place values? Very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in Austin Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_division Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudGrandma Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Have you tried the Khan vids with color-coded place values? Very nice. what is this and will it work with MUS?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Dracula Must Suck Blood Divide, Multiply, Subtract, Bring down. Or make your own phrase if that one is too icky. Start slow and easy. It will take time and practice to master. The payoff is that it will really help cement fact families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 what is this and will it work with MUS?? http://www.khanacademy.org/ Scroll down to arithmetic and start looking around. Why wouldn't it work with MUS? Do they do some idiosyncratic division method? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I was scared to death when we started long division because I have a kid that really, and I mean *really*, struggled with multiplication. I took a crazy chance and moved on to division, despite his not mastering multiplication, just to start something new. Lo and behold, he took to division like a pro and the multiplication came together. It had to, obviously :D. Long division is a tough one, to be sure. Hang in there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 It was tough when we started it. For a couple days I made my son do the problems with base ten blocks to SEE what was happening. Then I let him use the algorithm but any errors and we'd be back to the blocks. They really helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I haven't really thought about it because I've known how to do this for as long as I can remember, but long division requires division, multiplication, subtraction, and greater/less than determination... I was at the end of my rope before I opened the book on this today. Now I'm dangling from it. Somebody pass the wine. Momma needs a time out. BTDT and flunked the test! This by far was the most computational challenged concept that we have faced in a long time. LOL :lol: I literally tossed the book outside! (I will print that MM chapter again later. It felt good to throw it away.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0mmaBuck Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 He's getting it.... sort of.... Say he is dividing 205 by 9.... He says... Well, I can't divide 20 by 9 and the closest I can get is 18... So he writes 18 under 20 and then divides 18 by 9. Writes the 2 on top. Subtracts 18 from 20. Writes down the 2, brings down the 5 for 25... Then he says... Well, 18 is still as close as I can get. Writes 18 under 25. Divides 18 by 9 and puts 2 on top. Subtracts 18 from 25 for a remainder of 7 which he puts on top.... No multiplication involved whatsoever. However, it results in the correct answer and the written work looks the same as if he had multiplied so does it matter that his process is a little different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 He's getting it.... sort of.... Say he is dividing 205 by 9.... He says... Well, I can't divide 20 by 9 and the closest I can get is 18... So he writes 18 under 20 and then divides 18 by 9. Writes the 2 on top. No multiplication involved whatsoever. However, it results in the correct answer and the written work looks the same as if he had multiplied so does it matter that his process is a little different? Somehow seeing 2 9s in 18 feels multiplicationy enough for me. :) I'd go for it, and point out now and then how the 2 and 9 go to the 18. Do you have the triangular flash cards? I would cover one number or the other, and kiddo would, therefore, flip back and forth between division and multi. If he hung up (usually on division), I could prompt, e.g., "Well, what would you multiply 7 by to get 28?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendedforecast Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 He's getting it.... sort of.... Say he is dividing 205 by 9.... He says... Well, I can't divide 20 by 9 and the closest I can get is 18... So he writes 18 under 20 and then divides 18 by 9. Writes the 2 on top. Subtracts 18 from 20. Writes down the 2, brings down the 5 for 25... Then he says... Well, 18 is still as close as I can get. Writes 18 under 25. Divides 18 by 9 and puts 2 on top. Subtracts 18 from 25 for a remainder of 7 which he puts on top.... No multiplication involved whatsoever. However, it results in the correct answer and the written work looks the same as if he had multiplied so does it matter that his process is a little different? This is exactly how my dd did this. One of the errors she would make is forget to write a number in the quotient, so she would end up with say, 203 instead of 2031 because everything at the bottom would be finished out, but she would forget to write that last number. Eventually she started to do it the way I taught her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill A Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 There is a song that works: Grab your wine and dance along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_division Did you know not everyone learned short division in school? I posted on a different board once, stating a casual comment about short division, and numerous people replied, "What's that?" or "I've never heard of that" or "Wow, we didn't do that in school, that's neat!" I was surprised! I can do division in my head (okay, within reason) because of short division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0mmaBuck Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Did you know not everyone learned short division in school? I posted on a different board once, stating a casual comment about short division, and numerous people replied, "What's that?" or "I've never heard of that" or "Wow, we didn't do that in school, that's neat!" I was surprised! I can do division in my head (okay, within reason) because of short division. I never learned that but it makes total sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 We used base ten blocks too. In fact, we just did a problem or two of long division on the white board for about a month. It was very low key and easy. I'd write a problem on the board like 1398 divided by 3. She'd get out the base ten blocks and do it step by step. Her dialogue would go something like this: "One thousand block... hmmm... I can't divide that by three. Okay, I'll change that into 10 hundred blocks. Now, with the 3 hundred blocks, I have 13 hundred blocks. Alright, I can put the 13 into three groups... four each. But I have one left over. That's okay, I'll turn that hundred into 10 tens. With the 9 tens, that'll be 19 tens... etc..." As she talked it through, I'd have her do the algorithm on the white board (or graph paper, so it all lined up). It wasn't hard at all. She figured it out without stress or tears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margo out of lurking Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Dracula Must Suck Blood Divide, Multiply, Subtract, Bring down. Or make your own phrase if that one is too icky. Start slow and easy. It will take time and practice to master. The payoff is that it will really help cement fact families. I'd have my kids write D M S B at the top of their page. For us, it stood for Dad Mom Sister Brother, which is the order of our family. I used the 1" blocks that came with elementary Saxon to teach long division; we eased into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 He's getting it.... sort of.... Say he is dividing 205 by 9.... He says... Well, I can't divide 20 by 9 and the closest I can get is 18... So he writes 18 under 20 and then divides 18 by 9. Writes the 2 on top. Subtracts 18 from 20. Writes down the 2, brings down the 5 for 25... Then he says... Well, 18 is still as close as I can get. Writes 18 under 25. Divides 18 by 9 and puts 2 on top. Subtracts 18 from 25 for a remainder of 7 which he puts on top.... No multiplication involved whatsoever. However, it results in the correct answer and the written work looks the same as if he had multiplied so does it matter that his process is a little different? Your son's method always is the way that made more sense to me anyway, and is logically equivalent imo. As a matter of fact, if I'm doing division purely for myself, I write it out in fractions. So I get 205/9 = 180/9 + 25/9 = 20 + 18/9 + 7/9 = 22 + 7/9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelanieM Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 He's getting it.... sort of.... Say he is dividing 205 by 9.... He says... Well, I can't divide 20 by 9 and the closest I can get is 18... So he writes 18 under 20 and then divides 18 by 9. Writes the 2 on top. Subtracts 18 from 20. Writes down the 2, brings down the 5 for 25... Then he says... Well, 18 is still as close as I can get. Writes 18 under 25. Divides 18 by 9 and puts 2 on top. Subtracts 18 from 25 for a remainder of 7 which he puts on top.... No multiplication involved whatsoever. However, it results in the correct answer and the written work looks the same as if he had multiplied so does it matter that his process is a little different? Er... this is the only way I've ever done division. What other way is there? (Off to look...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 The only thing that has helped here is showing the inverse using triangle flashcards. Dd has the problem of using too small of a multiplier and misunderstanding the zero. Word problems are an utterly total failure the last time we tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Have you tried the Khan vids with color-coded place values? Very nice. I'll look into this. My ds is wearing thin my patience with messing up place value when multiplying and dividing. I can only explain it so many times before I snap! "I keep forgetting," is not acceptable dear ds. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Can someone explain to me short division? I never did, none of my children ever did it, and I don't even know what it is. Is it estimation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelanieM Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) Can someone explain to me short division? I never did, none of my children ever did it, and I don't even know what it is. Is it estimation? Did you look at the Wiki link posted earlier? To me, it looks like long division, but instead of writing out all the steps and bringing down, you write the number after each subtraction step in small beside the next digit in the dividend. I don't see much difference personally, but this is from a person that apparently takes a shortcut (or something) with long division as it is, so perhaps I'm not the best one to reply here! Melanie (slightly confused because it seems simple enough that I think I might be missing something! ha!) Edited November 30, 2011 by MelanieM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookfiend Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I'll look into this. My ds is wearing thin my patience with messing up place value when multiplying and dividing. I can only explain it so many times before I snap! "I keep forgetting," is not acceptable dear ds. :glare: Thank you, Thank you for sharing this - I'm very, very weary of trying to explain... at least I'm not the only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennynd Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 He's getting it.... sort of.... Say he is dividing 205 by 9.... He says... Well, I can't divide 20 by 9 and the closest I can get is 18... So he writes 18 under 20 and then divides 18 by 9. Writes the 2 on top. Subtracts 18 from 20. Writes down the 2, brings down the 5 for 25... Then he says... Well, 18 is still as close as I can get. Writes 18 under 25. Divides 18 by 9 and puts 2 on top. Subtracts 18 from 25 for a remainder of 7 which he puts on top.... No multiplication involved whatsoever. However, it results in the correct answer and the written work looks the same as if he had multiplied so does it matter that his process is a little different? That's how I will do it and so dos DS. What's wrong with this???:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Thank you, Thank you for sharing this - I'm very, very weary of trying to explain... at least I'm not the only one. You're welcome. :) It's nice knowing that other homeschool moms are not perfect. ;) I always laugh when people say to me that they don't have the patience to homeschool. Yeah, patience is not always my strong point. :tongue_smilie: I have learned to take deep breaths. :D Oh, and outsourcing like Khan's Academy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 That's how I will do it and so dos DS. What's wrong with this???:confused: I know! This is how long division is done. What is missing here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatmansWife Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I just recently was told about short division. I think it's great (but then again.....I love lattice multiplication too). Can someone explain to me short division? I never did, none of my children ever did it, and I don't even know what it is. Is it estimation? This had made it clear to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Can someone explain to me short division? I never did, none of my children ever did it, and I don't even know what it is. Is it estimation? Not estimation at all, it gives the exact answer. You just work to the solution in the same "footprint" as the written problem (under the division "tent"), you don't go down the page with the multiplication, subtracting and bringing down. Look at this wikipedia article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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