I am reeling, after PSU, now this for me

[TravelingChris]

I just found out yesterday evening that someone I knew previously has pleaded guilty to sexual crimes with his adopted daughter in abuse that was going on for ten years. That means I knew him and the daughter along with the rest of the family. The way I read the info I got, it makes me think they adopted a child who had been previously abused and probably started sexual behavior in the house. Somehow, in a totally sick and horrible perversion, the man apparently thought that was something he should act on. But it seems like more than simply child molestation and incest and that is part of what is bothering me so much- he wrote what amounts to love letters to the child. Apparently, only one child was affected and she was his 'special friend' for slightly more than a decade.

 

After searching my mind whether I ever saw anything strange, I know I didn't. Nothing like the PSU stuff where lots of people saw things. He didn't even seem to particularly like the girl who along with a separate sibling group, also adopted, were a large family and acted like other large families I knew. Kids running around, nothing in the least suspicious.

 

I haven't seen them for a number of years and this guy wasn't even in the same service as my dh so at least it isn't like my dh supervised him or anything. But I can't even blame any supervisors or anyone really except the culprit who has pled guilty and will be in prison for life or at least 25 years and since he is over 50, that may very well be life.

 

But I think back to Woody Allen and just wonder, is incest more common with adopted kids? I guess it would fall in the same category that sexual molestation is much more likely in households where the male figure is not biologically related to the victim.

 

Anyway, I just needed to vent since it all makes me very sad.

[MSNative]

:grouphug: Yuck. That is horrible.

[5kidsforME]

I'm sorry. :grouphug:

 

This whole PSU things has me reeling too. Coupled with what you just said, it really does make you wonder.

 

I was talking to dh about the whole thing, and I am just starting to feel like there are pervs everywhere. Makes me think so much more goes on then we ever even realize. I am starting to feel like I cannot trust ANYONE (other than dh), with my kids.

 

I mean how much do we really know anyone? Behind closed doors, who knows what goes on?

 

Maybe I just have been naive. I grew up in a family that none of this kind of stuff went on. I only know of one woman that was ever molested (as a child) and didn't get to know her until I was an adult.

 

Now as an adult...I guess I just am realizing it happens way more than I ever knew.

[Whereneverever]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[WeeBeaks]

As a survivor of abuse, yeah, I tend to think honestly it is pretty prevalent (all forms of abuse, but sexual especially). But then again that might be my own bias there against humanity.

 

I'm sorry you got dealt a shocker though. :grouphug:

[TravelingChris]

Yes, that is how these guys are. They act, most of them, just like normal people. That is how they get victims. In the case I know, probably because this poor girl was a victim at a much younger age and grew up thinking this was normal.

 

And so often the victims are really the least among us,- the children with other problems or issues be it those poor boys who had fatherless backgrounds and probably mothers with some problems too to children who are prone to get into some mischief and the pedophile can hold over them a little misdeed to commit himself a much bigger crime to kids who were previously abused and therefore less likely to complain.

[dragons in the flower bed]

One in four girls and one in six boys will be sexually abused in the United States before the age of eighteen. Yes, it is everywhere.

[twoforjoy]

But I think back to Woody Allen and just wonder, is incest more common with adopted kids? I guess it would fall in the same category that sexual molestation is much more likely in households where the male figure is not biologically related to the victim.

 

I would be very, very reluctant to say that Woody Allen, or a man who acted similarly, was a child molester. Not only was Soon-Yi not his biological child (so there was no actual incest taboo to break), he had never adopted her. She was an adult when the relationship began. They've now been married for almost 15 years.

 

Raping a child in the shower is a horrific act of abuse and violation. Entering into a consensual sexual relationship with the adult daughter of your spouse (who is not related to you) is definitely outside-the-norm and problematic in terms of your commitment to your marriage, but it is just not the same thing.

 

I think we need to make distinctions between sexual acts with prepubescent children, blood relatives, and/or a non-consenting partner and consensual acts between unrelated post-pubescent partners. The former are almost going to be morally wrong. The latter may not always be best or ideal, but are not the same thing and do not indicate the same kind of pathology that the former do. Otherwise we're left lumping Woody Allen in with Jerry Sandusky, and I don't see any rationale for doing that.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

If you read Predators by Ann Saulter she talks about how children are more likely to be victimized by a man who is not related to the child biologically. (mom's boyfriend, step-father, etc.) However, she does not extend that correlation to adopted children, per se.

 

:grouphug: OP, it's a horrible thing to try to process, isn't it?

[TravelingChris]

Thanks for the book suggestion, Cyndi. My graduate work was in criminology, though not this particularly area. As an analytical type of person, I guess it sort of helps to look at this professionally.

[Ottakee]

If you read Predators by Ann Saulter she talks about how children are more likely to be victimized by a man who is not related to the child biologically. (mom's boyfriend, step-father, etc.) However, she does not extend that correlation to adopted children, per se.

 

:grouphug: OP, it's a horrible thing to try to process, isn't it?

 

As a foster parent, we have seen over and over again, that the most dangerous man in a child's life tends to be mom's boyfriend or husband that is not related to the child.

 

This does NOT mean that all step dads abuse their step daughters or all boyfriends are harmful, just that is it so much more common than when it is the bio father involved.

[Kirch]

I would be very, very reluctant to say that Woody Allen, or a man who acted similarly, was a child molester. Not only was Soon-Yi not his biological child (so there was no actual incest taboo to break), he had never adopted her. She was an adult when the relationship began. They've now been married for almost 15 years.

 

Raping a child in the shower is a horrific act of abuse and violation. Entering into a consensual sexual relationship with the adult daughter of your spouse (who is not related to you) is definitely outside-the-norm and problematic in terms of your commitment to your marriage, but it is just not the same thing.

 

I think we need to make distinctions between sexual acts with prepubescent children, blood relatives, and/or a non-consenting partner and consensual acts between unrelated post-pubescent partners. The former are almost going to be morally wrong. The latter may not always be best or ideal, but are not the same thing and do not indicate the same kind of pathology that the former do. Otherwise we're left lumping Woody Allen in with Jerry Sandusky, and I don't see any rationale for doing that.

 

You meant "always" here, not "almost," right?

[kalanamak]

Poor kid, poor wife, and poor other kids. Daddy isn't the man they thought he was.

 

As an aside, consider reaching out to the wife. This happened to a co-worker and people were not polite to her. I think some people are stupid enough to think being nice to her somehow condoned the behavior*, and I think some people are ignorant enough to assume that she MUST have known what was going on. Sometimes wives do, but I wouldn't assume it.

 

* an example of this kind of nonsense was a woman whose live-in boyfriend drove drunk and killed two children. People gave HER grief for continuing to care for his kids while he went to prison. Like HIS kids deserved to be tossed out because of what dad did.

[Laurie4b]

 

 

 

But I think back to Woody Allen and just wonder, is incest more common with adopted kids? I guess it would fall in the same category that sexual molestation is much more likely in households where the male figure is not biologically related to the victim.

 

Anyway, I just needed to vent since it all makes me very sad.

 

If it's more common with adopted kids, my guess would be that it is more common with older adopted kids, not kids adopted as infants, in which case, I would expect the same bonding mechanisms to kick in as do with bio kids. With older kids who are adopted, there are often other dynamics at play that can override that sometimes (not always.)

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Thanks for the book suggestion, Cyndi. My graduate work was in criminology, though not this particularly area. As an analytical type of person, I guess it sort of helps to look at this professionally.

 

 

You are welcome, but let me just warn you: this is NOT an easy book to read. In addition to talking about the ways that they groom their victims she gives snippets of interviews and some of them talk about the detailed ways that they would rape kids to make it more painful. (The sadistic pedophile.) It's horrific, but informative. :001_huh:

[Lady Florida.]

:grouphug::grouphug: It's one thing to hear about a situation like that at Penn State, and feel sadness, outrage, empathy, etc. It's much harder though when it's personal. I'm so sorry.

[justamouse]

Yes, that is how these guys are. They act, most of them, just like normal people. That is how they get victims. In the case I know, probably because this poor girl was a victim at a much younger age and grew up thinking this was normal.

 

And so often the victims are really the least among us,- the children with other problems or issues be it those poor boys who had fatherless backgrounds and probably mothers with some problems too to children who are prone to get into some mischief and the pedophile can hold over them a little misdeed to commit himself a much bigger crime to kids who were previously abused and therefore less likely to complain.

 

I *just* got done with my Protecting God's Child class for teaching CCD, and it was an eye opening class.

 

90% of abusers know their victims -family, cousins, coaches. The abusers are NOT strangers for the most part, but people in your everyday life you trust with your kids.

 

They almost metacognize their behavior. They REALLY think about how they will lure the child-and it's not what you think.

[macpuffins]

90% of abusers know their victims -family, cousins, coaches. The abusers are NOT strangers for the most part, but people in your everyday life you trust with your kids.

 

They almost metacognize their behavior. They REALLY think about how they will lure the child-and it's not what you think.

There are just no words for how it has made me feel. Nauseous, angry, sad, frightened, horrified, agitated, etc. None of them encompass what I've felt these past few days. I am not alone.

 

I'm a survivor. I had more than one abuser. My first abuser (and most prolific) was my mother. I was the 5th daughter, and her 3 victim. I was not her last. My sister's son was also on her list. Much of what I endured was pseudo-medical in nature, yet completely unneeded for health reasons. She had her rationalizations. My father was also on her list, but she was physically abusive and emotionally abusive to him. When he intervened, she told him to leave her be or he'd never see his children again. She often punctuated her comments w/ physical abuse. In the 70s, a man was not likely to ever get custody of his children, and my mother could spin a really effective cover story. As a PTSD WWII survivor, he didn't have the emotional reserves to cope. I found out as an adult that almost all his hospitalizations for depression (and ECT) were because he intervened or tried to.

My father later tried to intervene when a boyfriend was abusing me, and got physical backlash from my mother. The one time she didn't know about, he nearly took off to murder the man in question. The only thing that held him back was that I had the car keys, the car, and the key ring also had his ammunition keys.

 

Mother-daughter abuse is much more rare, and it very difficult to talk about. I have been a member of several survivor groups for almost 20yrs, and I only know a couple more women for whom this was the case.

 

As a woman with a daughter, the mere *inkling* of doing anything to my daughter has made me vomit. Even medical procedures that *barely resemble* what my mother did to me have made me vomit. My husband is a very understanding man, and has explained to more than one medical person why I have fled a room. We have been fortunate, and in no case has the medical intervention had to take place, as alternatives/work-arounds were found once my issues were aired.

 

This whole debacle w/ Penn State has raised many issues among my friends (survivors, those who love them, and others). It has raised awareness of some of the power-differential types of abuse. I hope that the dialogues that have started are fruitful, and stop or prevent abuse of others at the hands of those who are in power positions.

 

Mr. Scalzi's 's article, Omelas State University, has an excellent take on this. (Language Alert - f-bombs abound, not completely innappropriately). Thetitle is in reference to a book he later mentions, by Ursula K. Le Guin, and is a very difficult, but valuable, read.

 

For those of you, all faith traditions, who pray: pray for all the victims.

For all of us who are outraged/disgusted/etc., remember how you feel right now, and if at any point in the future you come across knowledge of abuse occurring, PLEASE report to the authorities - legal ones. If you are unsure if you can safely intervene physically to stop the abuse, PLEASE get someone who can.

 

p. - someone who's been on the wrong side of abuse.

[justamouse]

Mr. Scalzi's 's article, Omelas State University, has an excellent take on this. (Language Alert - f-bombs abound, not completely innappropriately). Thetitle is in reference to a book he later mentions, by Ursula K. Le Guin, and is a very difficult, but valuable, read.

 

For those of you, all faith traditions, who pray: pray for all the victims.

For all of us who are outraged/disgusted/etc., remember how you feel right now, and if at any point in the future you come across knowledge of abuse occurring, PLEASE report to the authorities - legal ones. If you are unsure if you can safely intervene physically to stop the abuse, PLEASE get someone who can.

 

p. - someone who's been on the wrong side of abuse.

 

:grouphug:

 

Females sexually abusing children is rare-and they tend to be middle school teachers who like that age bracket. I'm so sorry for everyone.

 

:grouphug:

 

The Scalzi article is point on (f-bombs pretty much sum of the rage a lot of us feel) and Le Guin is a master. I'll have to read that one.