Have you ever stood up on principle only to be punished?

[battlemaiden]

If you found out that you had been treated unjustly (dishonestly) by a person but that person was in a position of authority over you and you knew that confrontation would harm your reputation, would you still do it?

 

I had the "opportunity" to confront a person's dishonorable actions last week. This person has no accountability, what they say goes and no one questions it. No one really can question it because the information flows through him.

 

It wasn't a pleasant conversation. I didn't yell, but I directly challenged him. And he was flabbergasted that this...this...this...*woman* would talk back to him.

 

Now this event has painted me and indirectly my dh because it was a military person that I confronted, and he tattled on me to my dh's superiors. :glare: Coward.

 

I have been playing the event over and over. And if I had to do it over again I think I would. My justice bone is mighty strong.

 

I could. not. let. it. go.

 

What is wrong with me? It is it really a control issue? Lack of self control?

 

Jo

 

[and "Sebastian, a lady" if you are reading...shooshy, kay? You know the situation, and I don't need any more trouble. (Big grin) Thanks]

[battlemaiden]

Btw, this isn't just a military thing. I was thinking people in academia, civil services, and the like would struggle with the same dilemma.

 

I don't want this to become a military bash fest, kwim? Thanks.

[PrairieAir]

Yes, I have and I would again. It sucks, but some of us have to have a little integrity.

---------

Dang it! I must have repped you too recently. Well, you deserve it again for standing up for what you think is right.

[elegantlion]

I used to have this quote in my bathroom, "Stand up for what is right, even when you stand alone." Doing the right thing never goes out of style.

 

I've had a few situations where I've had to stand up against people in authority. I'm more idealistic than confrontational, but it felt refreshing after my heart stopped pounding so hard.

[battlemaiden]

Okay, follow up thought.

 

What if you knew that confrontation wouldn't really change anything?

 

I knew that if I kept quiet it would all just be swept under the rug and no one would ever know.

 

IOW- It really was only for my benefit and to let him know that I know what he did and *it wasn't right*. I just NEEDED to tell him that what he did was wrong.

 

It's a lack of self-control at that point, right?

 

Jo

[Mekanamom]

Okay, follow up thought.

 

What if you knew that confrontation wouldn't really change anything?

 

I knew that if I kept quiet it would all just be swept under the rug and no one would ever know.

 

IOW- It really was only for my benefit and to let him know that I know what he did and *it wasn't right*. I just NEEDED to tell him that what he did was wrong.

 

It's a lack of self-control at that point, right?

 

Jo

 

Nah... someday, it may benefit the person you stood up to. It's good for that person to know that actions don't always go unnoticed or unchallenged, right?

[PrairieAir]

Okay, follow up thought.

 

What if you knew that confrontation wouldn't really change anything?

 

I knew that if I kept quiet it would all just be swept under the rug and no one would ever know.

 

IOW- It really was only for my benefit and to let him know that I know what he did and *it wasn't right*. I just NEEDED to tell him that what he did was wrong.

 

It's a lack of self-control at that point, right?

 

Jo

 

Maybe it is a lack of self-control. I'm more idealistic than confrontational like elegantlion said, but sometimes it reaches a point when I just have to say something, whether it will change the situation or not. Maybe I lack self control, but I like to think that maybe, just maybe that person will think about that confrontation and act more wisely in the future. I think people need to know that others know they've done something wrong and that it does matter and that we're not all gonna let it slide by. Someone has got to stand. Good for you for being that someone.

[genie]

Uh, yeah. I can't decide if it's a strength or a weakness. The one time I backed down on standing up for what I believed was right was when I was told by a priest that if I went to the bishop about what a nun was (very inappropriately) doing, I had better "make sure at every moment I was right with God" because of what she might do for revenge. I decided that wasn't worth it.

 

Otherwise, yeah. I do. And good for you for standing up for what you believe in. Too many people don't.

[WTMCassandra]

Yes. And it has had long-term consequences. But we had to do it, and I would do the same again if given the chance. If you want to know more, you may PM me. However, it was not a military situation. Those can get really ugly. You should make sure that you and your DH are on the same page on how to handle things. (((battlemaiden)))

[Elaine]

Okay, follow up thought.

 

What if you knew that confrontation wouldn't really change anything?

 

I knew that if I kept quiet it would all just be swept under the rug and no one would ever know.

 

IOW- It really was only for my benefit and to let him know that I know what he did and *it wasn't right*. I just NEEDED to tell him that what he did was wrong.

 

It's a lack of self-control at that point, right?

 

Jo

 

No, I don't think so. I think at that point it's sending the message that you know what they did and it's not OK. I think there is a big difference between lack of self-control and just plain old standing up for what is right.

 

I would have done what you did.

[magistramom]

I hope you find comfort soon! It's double hard to stand up to many men - I imagine it may have been a whole different spectrum of feelings if you had stood up to a woman. I wouldn't let up on the "justice bone" especially if in your heart you know it was the right thing to do (how else do some people learn?).

 

If it helps, try to think of it as one of those bumps in the road... you just need to ride over it (no stopping to think about it) and go on with life. If you need to learn from this - just avoid the next bump in the road. Live in the present - that bump is in the past.

[Unicorn.]

Okay, follow up thought.

 

What if you knew that confrontation wouldn't really change anything?

 

I knew that if I kept quiet it would all just be swept under the rug and no one would ever know.

 

IOW- It really was only for my benefit and to let him know that I know what he did and *it wasn't right*. I just NEEDED to tell him that what he did was wrong.

 

It's a lack of self-control at that point, right?

 

Jo

 

I don't think it is a lack of self control. As I get older I have come to realize that by not opening up and saying anything at those times, I have let people think it is ok to keep doing these things. By keeping my mouth shut, I have let people walk all over me, and by not speaking up, allowing them to do the same to others.

 

Whatever the incident was, I'm sure you did the right thing!

[Mrs Mungo]

Yes, I have. I frequently feel the same way-that I should be able to just shut up and walk away but what's wrong is wrong!

 

I'm sorry you're dealing with this. :grouphug:

[battlemaiden]

My dh just told me that his boss', boss', boss (really up there in the rank chain) told him that *we* need to go apologize to the guy that wronged us. He thinks it will "clear the air" and make things better for our particular military community in the future.

 

:001_huh::001_huh::001_huh::001_huh:

 

Ooooooooooor....

 

It will make him a bigger bully than he started out to be.

 

I can't do it. I won't do it. The guy lied, no one questions this guy. :banghead:

 

But my poor dh. He's in a no win situation because of what I did.

 

When will the punishment end?

 

Jo

[Plucky]

Is it an order or a strong suggestion? Could you "postpone" the apology since your dh is deploying and just never get around to doing it?

[Sahamamama]

for our freedom, but I don't think I could stand it, living with all those rules and orders hanging over my head. It's so illogical. Hope it works out.

[Unicorn.]

Is it an order or a strong suggestion? Could you "postpone" the apology...QUOTE]

 

I have the same questions. What does your dh say? Will he back you up on not apologizing? I don't know if I could either. That really stinks! :grouphug:

[battlemaiden]

Is it an order or a strong suggestion? Could you "postpone" the apology...QUOTE]

 

I have the same questions. What does your dh say? Will he back you up on not apologizing? I don't know if I could either. That really stinks! :grouphug:

 

He understands me not going, but I have expressed a certain pain I feel in needing to be apologized for----kwim? I don't think I need to be apologized for. It was my decision to confront him. He misrepresented our situation and I had a right to challenge him.

 

But the bigger issue is why are we worried about future interactions being compromised because he's ticked at me. Doesn't that say something about HIS character?

 

My gut tells me I need to go speak with the gentleman who suggested the apology. I really don't think he has any idea what transpired and as usual this unaccountable guy has been the only one to provide the story.

 

For those of you who know military culture, you understand that a subordinate can only say so much. My husband is ticked, but he can't exactly say, "you don't know what you're talking about sir"to this level of rank. It has to be addressed in a certain way.

 

[sigh]

 

I was just starting to heal.

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm sorry, battlemaiden. I COMPLETELY understand where you're coming from, honestly. It totally sucks.

[klmama]

I have absolutely no knowledge of military protocol or expectations, so take my advice with an entire bucket of salt. My take is that if you can talk with the man who suggested the apology with your dh's blessing, then you should go ahead. It may change his opinion of the situation. However, it may not. I would let your dh call this one.

[Mrs Mungo]

One thing I can possibly suggest-talk to the Chaplain. They are well versed in dealing with conflict resolution and hold quite a lot of power and sway. Just something to think about.

[umarider]

We are a military family, but bear in mind, I've rarely followed the "rules" in the Military Etiquette book MIL bought for me when we got engaged some 20 yrs ago:D. That being said...

 

I know I'd want to apologize in writing; something along the lines of "This was my take on the situation..., If I misinterpreted the situation in any way I apologize for my actions..., but I'm sure you'll understand that my desire to honor a moral code was what prompted my actions." Then cc DH's CO, etc. That way you'd get your side of the story out there, there'd be a record of your "apology", and if you were "incorrect" in your assessment you have technically apologized (albeit in a backward manner;))

 

My DH is asleep at the moment or I'd ask his opinion. I'm sure it'd be different from mine, but I have never liked the idiotic constraints placed on dependent spouses by a military career. I am a person and should be able to act independently of my DH unless I am doing something that jeapordizes OPSEC, kwim?

 

FWIW, we've been there. I always advise DH to go with what will let him hold his head high. The Corps won't be there with him once he retires, but the choices he makes on moral issues will stay with him for his lifetime.

[Lizzie in Ma]

I've nothing to offer but my sympathy. I would have done it too.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

One thing I can possibly suggest-talk to the Chaplain. They are well versed in dealing with conflict resolution and hold quite a lot of power and sway. Just something to think about.

 

:iagree:

[Marie in Oh]

One thing I can possibly suggest-talk to the Chaplain. They are well versed in dealing with conflict resolution and hold quite a lot of power and sway. Just something to think about.

 

I think this is good advice.

 

It has been alot of years since we have been directly involved with the military community-- ie. living on base and me being in OWC and participating squadron functions. I don't miss the years dh was flying and we had those kinds of responsibilties. The "Old boys club" is hard to penetrate, especially if this guy is high ranking-- he is probably old school. When dh was at TPS the commadant was always from a generation when the wives wore aprons and held teas. It was hard for some of them to used to the "new military wife" as they called it.

 

The worst part of this, Jo, is the position your dh is in. I know you know it. He knows it. He wants to defend you in a defenseless position. I would do what it takes so as to lessen the damage to dh's career. Not many other people here will understand that, but I know you will. If your dh will go with you to talk to the man demanding the apology and back you up-- then I would do what another poster mentioned. Explain how you read the situation, apologize if you somehow read it wrong, and let the whole thing blow over. It isn't really apogizing for doing the right thing, it is apologizing for perhaps not reading the situation with full understanding. Kind of like the Anne of Greene Gables approach ;). He is not going to change -- but it would help dh's situation for the long haul. Especially if this person has anything to do with dh's PRF fo they call it that in the Navy?).

 

Like I said, I don't miss this stuff. Dh is in a position now-- faculty at a miltary post-graduate school-- and there is no squadron, no wives hierarchy, no functions. I tried not to begrudge it when I was knee deep in it either. The miltary has been very good to us-- 16 years this year. It has given dh 3 degrees and given him some amazing experiences. But there are some things about the culture that I don't like. You are living through one of them.

 

I do think this is going to blow over-- but you might need to help it along. :grouphug:

[Mamasteff]

I want to share my sympathy with you... we had a very very similar situation, on the mission field.

 

It ended up costing us our position and so much more. Sometimes I regret having said anything, but I also know if I hadn't said something, nothing would have changed. I may not be there anymore, but the problems are slowly being addressed.

 

Thank you for standing up for what is right. There is always a cost involved.

[Harriet Vane]

Yes I suffered.

 

I have never regretted it. I can leave dysfunctional people behind, but I have to live with my own conscience and integrity every day.

 

:grouphug:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Okay, follow up thought.

 

What if you knew that confrontation wouldn't really change anything?

 

I knew that if I kept quiet it would all just be swept under the rug and no one would ever know.

 

IOW- It really was only for my benefit and to let him know that I know what he did and *it wasn't right*. I just NEEDED to tell him that what he did was wrong.

 

It's a lack of self-control at that point, right?

 

Jo

 

I don't know that it is a lack of self-control to tell someone that you know what the truth is and so does he. However, knowing some of the other situations relating to what I think this is about, there has been more than just a few instances of sweeping stuff under the rug. There is some incredible leverage in these cases, professionally and otherwise. Unfortunately, the PTB that should be exercising some oversight over the PTB that are being less than consistent and honest seem to have little interest in what is going on. I thought for a while that they didn't know but I'm not sure how much longer I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.