I thought the Colfax Family US'd

[Soror]

I really got the impression that the Colfax family unschooled. I was just reading their book, Homeschooling for Excellence, and I wouldn't classify what they did as unschooling in the least, certainly not be the standards that are used today. They used regular school textbooks it seems for a lot of things, reading, math, and science. They seem to encourage the learning of certain skills and a progression, following their kids abilities but nonetheless they had actual official schoolwork. The talk about specifically having learning time and not just learning while working. So, do others consider this us'ing?

[Ria]

I, too, read the book, and I think I'd still classify them as more unschoolers than traditional homeschoolers. If that makes any sense.

[mommaduck]

I know several unschoolers that use textbooks and other such. They just don't confine themselves to such.

[AuntieM]

Unschooling doesn't mean you forgo the books. It means your studies follow as the student's interests lead. It's been a while since I read HfE, but IIRC those guys were allowed and encouraged to follow their passions, which resulted in success for them.

[justasque]

...I wouldn't classify what they did as unschooling in the least, certainly not be the standards that are used today. They used regular school textbooks it seems for a lot of things, reading, math, and science. They seem to encourage the learning of certain skills and a progression, following their kids abilities but nonetheless they had actual official schoolwork.

 

Back in the day, that *was* unschooling. What the unschooling scene looks like has changed radically in the 20 years since it's been on my radar.

[Soror]

Back in the day, that *was* unschooling. What the unschooling scene looks like has changed radically in the 20 years since it's been on my radar.

 

I guess that seems to be the case or from what I've seen us'ers define themselves.

[AuntieM]

Back in the day, that *was* unschooling. What the unschooling scene looks like has changed radically in the 20 years since it's been on my radar.

:iagree:

 

Fifteen years ago I remember being impressed with the USing families I knew (just two of them); I'm sure they had to work harder at providing opportunities and meeting their kids' expectations for learning than I did following the classical model! I've not met an USer like that lately. In many cases the definition seems to be drastically different. But now I'm treading into crock pot and shopping cart territory...

[mamajudy]

I never considered them unschoolers. I read that book many, many years ago, after reading John Holt's books, and there wasn't much similarity. Homeschooling, as we all know, doesn't necessarily mean school-at-home.

[Ellie]

Yes, they unschooled.

 

There are no "standards" for unschooling, other than children learning things in ways that don't look like "school." Possibly y'all newbies :D don't understand what unschooling really is.

[Soror]

Yes, they unschooled.

 

There are no "standards" for unschooling, other than children learning things in ways that don't look like "school." Possibly y'all newbies :D don't understand what unschooling really is.

I'm just going by the definition put out by us'ers. It does seem a growing divide of 'old school' us'ers vs. the newer generations. I know from what I've seen that is not only my interpretation those I know irl trying to follow this philosophy believe textbooks are completely out of the picture.

[Ellie]

I'm just going by the definition put out by us'ers. It does seem a growing divide of 'old school' us'ers vs. the newer generations. I know from what I've seen that is not only my interpretation those I know irl trying to follow this philosophy believe textbooks are completely out of the picture.

I don't know what you mean by "us'ers." Is that "users"? :confused:

 

People should read John Holt if they want to know what unschooling is. Unschooling can absolutely include textbook. Unschooling only means that children are learning without following a classroom model--school--based on grade levels and what "should" be taught/learned at different ages.

[mamajudy]

I've always considered unschooling to be more child-led. I don't consider a parent guiding or directing the child's education to follow his/her interests to be unschooling. That's one of the advantages of teaching one's own. There are many ways to learn besides sitting at a desk for 6 hours every day. I am not a newbie:D. I've homeschooled over 20 years, and did many years of research before that -- when the only books in the public library system on homeschooling were written by John Holt. His books describe what I would consider unschooling.

[....]

I don't know what you mean by "us'ers." Is that "users"? :confused:

 

People should read John Holt if they want to know what unschooling is. Unschooling can absolutely include textbook. Unschooling only means that children are learning without following a classroom model--school--based on grade levels and what "should" be taught/learned at different ages.

 

:iagree: When I say that I am unschooling my 1st grader this year, this is exactly what I mean. Not the unschooling where they play Halo all day and you can't tell them "no". ;)

[Soror]

us'ers= unschoolers

 

I mean I am going by the definition and proclamations of those who self-identify as unschoolers. As I said those those who are in the newer camp seem to give a radically definition of what that is compared to the older ones. I have read some Holt and I have seen discussion about how his model of us'ing is not comparable to what is now considered us'ing.

 

Perhaps the biggest difference I'm seeing is this idea of setting goals and high standards which seem really out of favor w/ 'new' unschoolers. The idea seems to be that you cannot impose any of your own ideals of success on them.

Edited September 22, 2011 by soror

[Penelope]

The older definition of unschooling seems very unclear.

 

I think most on this board probably make adjustments in our plans based on our individual children. I imagine most homeschooling families have some element of interest-led learning. Yet I don't think most homeschoolers using TWTM as a guide would call themselves unschoolers. But are we?

[KathyBC]

When we first started homeschooling I read and *loved* Homeschooling for Excellence. At the time it seemed to me that unschooling was just another word for homeschooling, which seemed to line up with what I read there. A few years ago, I read the Colfaxes' other title (I think it must be Hard Times in Paradise) and it made the unschooling portion of the kids' younger years very clear.

 

As for terminology, I would love to see unschooling reclaimed. Some of the IRL homeschoolers I know have chosen the term relaxed, which seems to be a similar idea - a required set of skills and prescribed learning time and resources, just not necessarily the traditional school at home model.

Edited September 22, 2011 by KathyBC

[mamajudy]

I guess all those years I thought I was homeschooling, I was really unschooling!:D I remember when we first started, we almost ordered a very popular (at the time one of the few) curriculum for kindergarten. My husband called Cathy Duffy (who had stated in her book that she did not recommend it) and she recommended Ann Ward's Learning at Home. We saved a ton of money, and learned what homeschooling could really be! My heart goes out to the little 4 and 5 year olds who are sitting in front of a computer screen watching a DVD school at my old church. Especially in the younger years, there can be so much more freedom in learning!

[Penelope]

One thing about the Colfaxes is that they were homesteading. I remember the book talked a lot about the projects the boys did. They were building things and raising animals, from what I remember. These things require the learning of certain skills. I'm not sure this type of unschooling can be matched in a suburban home. Cooking or checking prices at the grocery store is not quite the same as designing a shed or an animal pen.

[mamajudy]

One thing about the Colfaxes is that they were homesteading. I remember the book talked a lot about the projects the boys did. They were building things and raising animals, from what I remember. These things require the learning of certain skills. I'm not sure this type of unschooling can be matched in a suburban home. Cooking or checking prices at the grocery store is not quite the same as designing a shed or an animal pen.

 

We managed to build a pigeon loft and raise a flock of racing pigeons in Ft. Lauderdale!:)

[Ellie]

One thing about the Colfaxes is that they were homesteading. I remember the book talked a lot about the projects the boys did. They were building things and raising animals, from what I remember. These things require the learning of certain skills. I'm not sure this type of unschooling can be matched in a suburban home. Cooking or checking prices at the grocery store is not quite the same as designing a shed or an animal pen.

They homesteaded a goat ranch. :)

 

There isn't a "type" of unschooling. It's just children learning in ways that don't look like school, so it doesn't matter whether you live on a goat ranch or in the burbs.

 

Our unschooling included Camp Fire and 4-H, Scottish Highland dance, lots of library visits, the county fair, living history days, and more, all in San Diego. :-)

[angela in ohio]

Unschooling used to mean you were homeschooling, but not using all A Beka or using a church co-op. :D The Colfaxes fit that definition. It was un-public-schooling. Now the term has come to mean un-coercion, a definition rabidly defended by "big time" unschoolers. This group is still claiming the Colfaxes, and it works out because most never read the book (similar to those who say CM is easy-peasy and get away with it because no one reads her original works anymore.)

 

All of the IRL homeschoolers I know who are unschoolers define it by a lack of parent-suggested/structured learning. They bristle (and I agree) at "unschooling math" or "unschooling part time" or "unschooling my preschooler"or "unschooling when our school work is done." So their dc might choose to use textbooks or take onlione classes to learn what they want to do. [As an aside, I've never seen an unschooled high schoolers, because every single child of the dozens I knew ended up in public or charter school between 6th and 8th grade.]

 

Online, you see more of the anti-textbook, pro-video games crowd. Even if the child chooses a textbook, the parent must have done something wrong. :lol: Pretty much anyone I've seen on this board claim they unschool would be shouted down by this group.

[KathyBC]

Unschooling used to mean you were homeschooling, but not using all A Beka or using a church co-op. :D The Colfaxes fit that definition. It was un-public-schooling. Now the term has come to mean un-coercion, a definition rabidly defended by "big time" unschoolers. This group is still claiming the Colfaxes, and it works out because most never read the book (similar to those who say CM is easy-peasy and get away with it because no one reads her original works anymore.)

 

 

:iagree: (emphasis mine)

[Penelope]

Unschooling used to mean you were homeschooling, but not using all A Beka or using a church co-op. :D The Colfaxes fit that definition. It was un-public-schooling. Now the term has come to mean un-coercion, a definition rabidly defended by "big time" unschoolers. This group is still claiming the Colfaxes, and it works out because most never read the book (similar to those who say CM is easy-peasy and get away with it because no one reads her original works anymore.)

 

 

:iagree: :lol:

[Soror]

Unschooling used to mean you were homeschooling, but not using all A Beka or using a church co-op. :D The Colfaxes fit that definition. It was un-public-schooling. Now the term has come to mean un-coercion, a definition rabidly defended by "big time" unschoolers. This group is still claiming the Colfaxes, and it works out because most never read the book (similar to those who say CM is easy-peasy and get away with it because no one reads her original works anymore.)

 

All of the IRL homeschoolers I know who are unschoolers define it by a lack of parent-suggested/structured learning. They bristle (and I agree) at "unschooling math" or "unschooling part time" or "unschooling my preschooler"or "unschooling when our school work is done." So their dc might choose to use textbooks or take onlione classes to learn what they want to do. [As an aside, I've never seen an unschooled high schoolers, because every single child of the dozens I knew ended up in public or charter school between 6th and 8th grade.]

 

Online, you see more of the anti-textbook, pro-video games crowd. Even if the child chooses a textbook, the parent must have done something wrong. :lol: Pretty much anyone I've seen on this board claim they unschool would be shouted down by this group.

That is what I have seen. It seems odd to apply those definitions to the present though as what they did was a reaction to the resources they had which are significantly different now. There isn't just a choice of boxed and textbooks, there is everything in between. From reading about what they liked it seems they would have loved some of the lit based history courses available now and used a method like Sonlight, TOG etc for teaching- heavy doses of real books ala CM seemed to be what they did. Many of us do that now we just don't have to do as much planning on our own, or reinvent the wheel. According to the 'new' terms it seems they were more on the side of delayed and self-education.

 

It seems extremely disingenuous to me that the ones I've seen touting the benefits of us'ing citing the Colfax family don't use anything akin to their methods.

[seraphina]

The co-op we belong to is full of unschoolers, it's a relaxed co-op with enrichment classes. I guess my experience with unschoolers is different than some. And just for the record we have several teens who are unschooled in our co-op. I am obviously not in their homes all day so I can't be 100% certain about what goes on but I know many of them use textbooks, they use all sorts of books, it's just more individually focused. They aren't bound by what a child should be learning at a certain age. And even though we are in the city one family spends a lot of time raising chickens, that to me is an important skill. I have only ran into a couple families that just let their kids run wild all day and call it unschooling, they are not the norm.

[Lady Florida.]

Back in the day, that *was* unschooling. What the unschooling scene looks like has changed radically in the 20 years since it's been on my radar.

 

 

Yes. Unschooling, when John Holt originally coined the term, meant not attending traditional schools and not relying on textbooks alone. By that definition they were unschoolers. It's been years since I read the book, but IIRC, the kids did bookwork, then often worked outside on the property.

[ElizaG]

All of the IRL homeschoolers I know who are unschoolers define it by a lack of parent-suggested/structured learning. (...) Pretty much anyone I've seen on this board claim they unschool would be shouted down by this group.

Having read a bunch of unschooling boards and web sites in the past several years, there's no way I'd use that term to describe our family. But I've seen a couple of recent books by people who refer to themselves as "Catholic unschoolers," and many of them seem to do more or less what we do -- i.e., structured, parent-led learning at certain times or for certain subjects, with assorted other stuff going on the rest of the time. I already knew a bit about some of these families' approaches via their posts on blogs and a Catholic homeschool board, and was really surprised to see them describe themselves as unschoolers. It seems to me to be more in line with what used to be described as relaxed and eclectic homeschooling. I'm not sure why they feel it's preferable to use the term "unschooling."

 

My own impression of unschooling, at least as the term is currently used among its most vocal proponents (John Holt notwithstanding), is that it's based on the belief that children will learn all the academics they need through their own inner motivation, or through the natural circumstances of everyday life. For instance, they might choose to use textbooks for a certain subject, but this is still considered "unschooling" as long as it was their own choice.

 

I haven't read the Colfax family's books (though they look interesting), so I'm not sure where they fit in to all this.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Eleanor

[Ellie]

Unschooling used to mean you were homeschooling, but not using all A Beka or using a church co-op. :D The Colfaxes fit that definition. It was un-public-schooling. Now the term has come to mean un-coercion, a definition rabidly defended by "big time" unschoolers. This group is still claiming the Colfaxes, and it works out because most never read the book (similar to those who say CM is easy-peasy and get away with it because no one reads her original works anymore.)

I'd have to disagree that unschooling meant "un-public schooling." It meant--and still means--learning that doesn't look anything like school.

 

All of the IRL homeschoolers I know who are unschoolers define it by a lack of parent-suggested/structured learning. They bristle (and I agree) at "unschooling math" or "unschooling part time" or "unschooling my preschooler"or "unschooling when our school work is done." So their dc might choose to use textbooks or take onlione classes to learn what they want to do. [As an aside, I've never seen an unschooled high schoolers, because every single child of the dozens I knew ended up in public or charter school between 6th and 8th grade.]

I could agree with this :) although I can see unschooling math. I have known unschooled high school-age kids, though.

[Ginevra]

I'm just going by the definition put out by us'ers. It does seem a growing divide of 'old school' us'ers vs. the newer generations. I know from what I've seen that is not only my interpretation those I know irl trying to follow this philosophy believe textbooks are completely out of the picture.

 

:iagree: The Colfaxes were the unschoolers of their day; at least, that was my take on it when I read their book. I also read a lot of John Holt. Unschooling now seems to have gone mostly in the Sandra Dodd "Radical Unschooling" direction, which is far different from what the Colfaxes appeared to do. I've seen evidence of "I'm More Radical Than Thou" on the web. It seems to turn into a competition for Most Radical. :glare:

[SeekingHim77]

I think that one major reason why the Colfaxe's method was so successful for them is because they lived in the boonies on a working ranch, with no television. :001_smile:

 

Unschooling would work much differently without all the distractions so many of us have in our home today.

[Happy]

I think that one major reason why the Colfaxe's method was so successful for them is because they lived in the boonies on a working ranch, with no television. :001_smile:

 

Unschooling would work much differently without all the distractions so many of us have in our home today.

 

:iagree:

[KathyBC]

I'd have to disagree that unschooling meant "un-public schooling." It meant--and still means--learning that doesn't look anything like school.

 

 

Geez Ellie, you're making my brain hurt. Wouldn't un-public-schooling mean learning that doesn't look anything like school? Most of us don't have any other definition of school to compare it to, kwim?

[Soror]

I think that one major reason why the Colfaxe's method was so successful for them is because they lived in the boonies on a working ranch, with no television. :001_smile:

 

Unschooling would work much differently without all the distractions so many of us have in our home today.

 

I think it would look different but I don't think it would have been less effective. As they say in the back of the book, their children would have likely pursued their interests by different avenues. I think there is a popular view within our culture that you have to find *exactly* the right place to live and *exactly* the right job to be happy and fulfilled. I think it applies in a good way to this- it is more about the process of find out what your passion is and following it the best you can that learning occurs, there is no *one* way. There is no perfect hs situation/pardigm or perfect curriculum or theory- kids can succeed under various methods/places but it is an attitude that we foster, it is the resources we offer, support we give, dedication to the job, value we place, etc .

[snickelfritz]

I think it would look different but I don't think it would have been less effective. As they say in the back of the book, their children would have likely pursued their interests by different avenues. I think there is a popular view within our culture that you have to find *exactly* the right place to live and *exactly* the right job to be happy and fulfilled. I think it applies in a good way to this- it is more about the process of find out what your passion is and following it the best you can that learning occurs, there is no *one* way. There is no perfect hs situation/pardigm or perfect curriculum or theory- kids can succeed under various methods/places but it is an attitude that we foster, it is the resources we offer, support we give, dedication to the job, value we place, etc .

 

Yes, but I believe the no television part is important (and we do allow TV.)

 

I've had days where school, chores, and music practice was done and they asked to watch tv and I let them spend their afternoon doing that. We usually have evening activities, so afternoon is when they are free. Their day looks completely different than if I don't let them and they end up finding a project and working on it. Then writing a story. Then playing a lengthy imaginative game. Then finding a recipe to try for breakfast the next day and planning out our shopping list. All before heading out to whatever planned enrichment activity (soccer, music lesson) is going on that evening.

 

Those types of things can get lost in the details of describing what you are doing for school and why one day is rich and varied and the other day is sufficient in covering academics and extras, but missing the zing. Take that daily difference and expand it over years, and you could have 2 families doing similar school programs and similar activities with vary different results.

Edited September 23, 2011 by snickelfritz

[Soror]

Yes, but I believe the no television part is important (and we do allow TV.)

 

I've had days where school, chores, and music practice was done and they asked to watch tv and I let them spend their afternoon doing that. We usually have evening activities, so afternoon is when they are free. Their day looks completely different than if I don't let them and they end up finding a project and working on it. Then writing a story. Then playing a lengthy imaginative game. Then finding a recipe to try for breakfast the next day and planning out our shopping list. All before heading out to whatever planned enrichment activity (soccer, music lesson) is going on that evening.

 

Those types of things can get lost in the details of describing what you are doing for school and why one day is rich and varied and the other day is sufficient in covering academics and extras, but missing the zing. Take that daily difference and expand it over years, and you could have 2 families doing similar school programs and similar activities with vary different results.

Yes, I think the tv/media plays a bigger role than the location. But I also think that it can be enriching as well if used wisely- like watching all the many documentaries on science or history etc can be a part of education. That is something any of us can choose- whether or not to turn on the tv though(not that it is always easy).

[snickelfritz]

Yes, I think the tv/media plays a bigger role than the location. But I also think that it can be enriching as well if used wisely- like watching all the many documentaries on science or history etc can be a part of education. That is something any of us can choose- whether or not to turn on the tv though(not that it is always easy).

 

 

I agree, which is why we do allow tv.

 

I just think it's misleading when people cite someone who used unschooling, or Sonlight, or (insert any method here) and say that's the way to go because so-and-so did it with great results. Do you truly have a picture of what day-in and day-out life was like for them? Are you able to do something similar or find something to replace those project hours? (if not farming, than with a garden or sewing projects or rocketry or computer programming or etc......) I don't think it needs to be farming. But, I do think the importance of a large scale project like that shouldn't be minimized. I grew up on a part-time farm and the wide range of DOING REAL THINGS is hard to replace with just field trips. Yes, with Eagle Scout projects, or helping with parent's business, or maintaining a large gardening, or doing much of your own sewing, but not with just field trips.

 

Ditto for a math program or reading or English or..... Some people will see that so-and-so had great success and high SAT scores by going through XYZ math. They don't know (or ignore) the part where they supplemented with board games, problem solving books, logic puzzles, math literature, etc.... and made sure to do math EVERY weekday, including summer. And they wonder why their results aren't as good. Must be the program.:tongue_smilie:

Edited September 23, 2011 by snickelfritz

[SeekingHim77]

I think it would be next to impossible to get the same results as a family who doesn't have internet or T.V., lives on a working farm with tons of chores and room for projects, and lives far from civilization while having all of those things to distract your children. The Colfax children wanted to learn because it was interesting and enjoyable and helped them accomplish their goals. T.V., the internet, friends constantly dropping by, and no inspiration for those goals or a space to carry them out would have greatly hindered them.

 

Sure, we can get great results without replicating their homeschooling experience in it's entirety but their success was directly linked to their particular environment which many of us are unable to reproduce for our children.

[Lady Florida.]

I think it would be next to impossible to get the same results as a family who doesn't have internet or T.V., lives on a working farm with tons of chores and room for projects, and lives far from civilization while having all of those things to distract your children. The Colfax children wanted to learn because it was interesting and enjoyable and helped them accomplish their goals. T.V., the internet, friends constantly dropping by, and no inspiration for those goals or a space to carry them out would have greatly hindered them.

 

 

I agree that their lifestyle had a lot to do with their success, but it's also important to realize that the Colfax kids were homeschooled in a different time. Our world has changed so much in the 20 or so years since those kids graduated from Harvard. Can you imagine applying to Harvard or any major university today without being computer/internet savvy? So while having the internet can certainly be distracting, it's also necessary for today's college students. Not knowing how to use it would put one at a disadvantage because they would have to spend time catching up.

[Soror]

I agree that their lifestyle had a lot to do with their success, but it's also important to realize that the Colfax kids were homeschooled in a different time. Our world has changed so much in the 20 or so years since those kids graduated from Harvard. Can you imagine applying to Harvard or any major university today without being computer/internet savvy? So while having the internet can certainly be distracting, it's also necessary for today's college students. Not knowing how to use it would put one at a disadvantage because they would have to spend time catching up.

 

I agree- just as the talked about using a typewriter being a necessity, today using a computer is a necessity. I think others can have that level of success if that was their choice- but I wouldn't define it solely mean acceptance to Harvard. I think there have been other hs success stories that prove that. I think it is more about making the most of the opportunities one does have.

[Blueridge]

Homeschooling for Excellence was the first book I read before we even started teaching our dd. I remember feeling so excited about the possibilities. I had never thought of 'life experiences' as qualifying as education before;), but their lifestyle was such an inspiration. I wanted my dd to want to read, to be deeply interested in the things she was learning, and I also wanted to live in a remote area surrounded by huge trees in a house we would build together lol. So I wanted to become an unschooler with a plan. :D I remember sitting down with their book, trying to locate each and every resource they had listed in the back so that our dd could go to Harvard, too...I never found those Raintree Science books, dog gone it. :)

[Mommyfaithe]

Back in the day, that *was* unschooling. What the unschooling scene looks like has changed radically in the 20 years since it's been on my radar.

 

Yup...back in the day we were considered unschoolers because we didn't use a A Beka!:D. We also used....gasp.....real books instead of school texts for everything except math and grammar.....oy yoy yoy.

 

Now, in our unschooling area...which just looks like " ignore them and they will blossom into trust-fund brats"...... We are looked at as school-at-homers.....because we have our kids do table time every.stinikin'.day.

 

Funny how things go'round.

 

Faithe