How do you teach self control & self worth?

[k2bdeutmeyer]

As I stated HERE, we're having troubles with DD. I still don't feel comfortable going into details publicly, but have narrowed it down to one issue.

 

DD wants everyone to like her. And at 11yr old, that includes boys. For a variety of reasons, she has had a lot of her innocence taken away. I cannot give that back, so consider the fact that I feel like (in that aspect) I'm dealing with a 16 or 17yr old. She has ZERO self control and will do just about anything to get people (boys in particular) to like her. Things that make me sick to my stomach.

 

This is not who she is. She is smart, funny, caring, inquisitive, and generally just a good kid. UNTIL.....you get her away from me/DH (not her dad). Then, it's like she has a completely different personality. We've talked frankly with her........many times. I know that person isn't who she wants to be.

 

I'm scared for her. She's going to get taken advantage of and/or used. She will do so many things she is morally against if I'm not around and she thinks it will get somebody to like her/think she's cool. I can hover for now, and control her environment (which is what we're doing), but I can't do that forever. We've been trying to teach her these lessons for several years now.

 

We've talked about the fact that if your friends don't like you for who you are, then they aren't really your friends. We've talked a lot about being true to yourself and how you'll be happier and feel better about yourself. We've talked about morals and being okay with who you are. Clearly, we're failing. She seems to get the message, understand, and feel relief that she doesn't have to be this person she doesn't like being, but then she goes back and does it again, and again, and again!!

 

I don't know where I'm going wrong, or how to help her before it's "too late". Maybe some BTDT advice will help. Sigh.

 

Thanks for "listening".

[Kathleen in VA]

:grouphug: I think this is related to the fact that, as you mentioned, your dh is not her real dad. I have read that girls who lack closeness with their real fathers are prone to act out in this way. I know that I did when my parents got divorced when I was 14 and we moved 5000 miles from my dad. Is her father in the picture at all? Just wondering because that may be at the heart of it.

 

I made a lot of bad choices in those days and it was only by God's grace that I came out of it as unscathed as I did. I have no sage advice - just keep on doing what you are doing. Perhaps seek a counselor - someone who can look at the situation more objectively - to help her. Her behavior is also the type that some girls exhibit when they've been sexually abused. Is that a possibility at all? If so, I would absolutely seek out a counselor.

 

Also, if she were my daughter, I would do all I could to keep her from being in any situation she might be tempted to act badly in to begin with - no outside activities unless I'm there. That may seem unrealistic and harsh, but I sure wish my mom had done that for me. I would stick to family activities and not allow her much freedom.

 

:grouphug: I will be praying for you all.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

Her dad is in the picture......to some extent. He is not a good example, and comes from the perspective of, "Well, that's what kids do. They have to learn somehow. And if she screws up her life, well, that's her choice." Oy.

[Jamauk]

I was very similiar to your DD when I was her age, and to be honest to this day I can't point to a particular reason why. I just wanted people to like me and I was willing to do almost anything to get a boy's attention, things I'm not proud of now.

 

One thing that helped as I got older was SPORTS. I found a sport that I excelled in and I started getting a lot of attention for that. It helped to build my confidence and while I still would make some poor decisions, they weren't as bad or as often as they could have been (or had been in the past).

 

When my sports career ended in college (long story), I reverted back to doing whatever it took to get attention from boys.

 

I had a normal, middle class, happy childhood. My parents were married (divorced when I was in my 20s) and there is no history of abuse. Again, I can't pinpoint why I was this way.

 

My only advice would be to keep the lines of communication open with your daughter, look into a counselor (preferably a younger one that seems "cool" to her) or a youth pastor if you have a church home, and find her an activity that she can excel at. Martial arts comes to mind.

 

:grouphug:

[k2bdeutmeyer]

She is heavily involved in softball, and was actually doing really well UNTIL we let her go back to PS for 2 classes this year. She has participated in 2 social nights (at the local roller skating rink) and just being around the other kids her age has been enough to spawn all of these behaviors again. Sigh. I knew I didn't feel good about sending her to PS, even just for 2 classes. I really thought she could handle it though.

[Kathleen in VA]

Her dad is in the picture......to some extent. He is not a good example, and comes from the perspective of, "Well, that's what kids do. They have to learn somehow. And if she screws up her life, well, that's her choice." Oy.

 

Well, that certainly does not help.:tongue_smilie:

 

Here are a few book suggestions:

 

Lies Young Women Believe

 

Before You Meet Prince Charming

 

The Princess and the Kiss

 

A Young Woman After God's Own Heart

[Jamauk]

Is there an older softball player (on the highschool team, maybe?) or some other older person that could mentor her?

 

Clearly, she's dealing with some things and not comfortable talking to your or DH or her dad about them. Maybe someone closer to her own age (that you completley trust to guide her in the right direction) could help her open up? I'm just thinking out loud here, but I truly hope you find the answers you need. :grouphug:

[k2bdeutmeyer]

Thank you!! Checking into them right now!

[Jamauk]

When I was in highschool we had a Young Life chapter (is that still around?) and it was run by some local Christian college students. They used to invite us to their apartments, let us hang out with them and their friends and we all felt so "cool" but it was a safe place and they were excellent role models. We usually prayed together, read some Bible verses together, but we also hung out and played Nintendo and rollerbladed.

 

I know your daughter isn't in highschool yet, but is there some type of group such as this (Big Sisters, even?) that you could get her involved in? Something that is still "cool" but encourages appropriate behavior and will still let your daughter feel like she's "fitting in"?

 

Again, just thinking out loud and hoping something will jump out at you.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

Funny! The author of Before You Meet Prince Charming is actually local to us!!

[justamouse]

Sounds like I'm sending you on a rabbit trail, but I think a book that might help you is WHY GENDER MATTERS. My library had it. It will help you answer WHY.

 

Also, Parenting with Grace.

Edited September 20, 2011 by justamouse

[Kathleen in VA]

She is heavily involved in softball, and was actually doing really well UNTIL we let her go back to PS for 2 classes this year. She has participated in 2 social nights (at the local roller skating rink) and just being around the other kids her age has been enough to spawn all of these behaviors again. Sigh. I knew I didn't feel good about sending her to PS, even just for 2 classes. I really thought she could handle it though.

 

I'm not sure how practical a suggestion this is, but if it were me, I'd pull her out of ps asap. She needs more than academics right now. She needs you and a lot of protection from herself and others. I can imagine how this would be very inconvenient and difficult, but I cannot emphasize enough how much her future depends on you focusing on her spiritual life - her emotional life - right now. Whatever she needs to learn academically, as you know, can be covered at home. Right now she needs you, not a school experience. I have BTDT and I wish very much that someone had cared enough about me at that age to take drastic measures for the sake of my future in spite of all protests I may have made at the time.

[Kathleen in VA]

Funny! The author of Before You Meet Prince Charming is actually local to us!!

 

Nifty! That was one of Dd18's favorite books. She often stopped and read parts out loud to me.

[elegantlion]

:grouphug: No sure I have anything helpful, but I'm sorry.

 

Does she respond to any stories or biographies of independent women?

Amelia Earhart

 

What about the Fellowship of Christian Athletes? http://www.fca.org/AboutFCA/

 

How does she feel about photography? I know sometimes it helps self-esteem to be involved in something where your work is the center of attention and YOU don't have to worry as much about how you, as the person, are perceived.

[LibraryLover]

I've just spent several days visiting with friends whose small dds watch hours and hours of Disney channel. I am pretty darn liberal. I have a 12 yr old daughter. We do have a tv, although we do not have cable. Even in my liberalness, I have to say that I am shocked and appalled at this programing. Everyone is pretty & hip and the ones who are not are considered nerds and worse.

 

Every character has special powers or gifts or sings and flips their hair. You must be popular. It's worse than I could have imagined. Its so couched in innocence and cuteness, i can see why many parents don't see it as dangerous. I may have seen a show or two on vacation with the children, but never. ever did they watch show after show. I did not realize That even at 11 pm at night they are repeating all this insipid garbage. The fashions shows, the contests, the interviews, the dancing... Nothing intellectual about it and it is all based on looks and becoming famous.

 

Kids are being bombarded with this and I had no idea how out of the mainstream my children were. I am so glad I didn't

bring my 12 yr old

On this trip. No child can fight that. It's 24/7 of all the wrong messages.

 

It sounds as if your dd has experienced trauma greater than this junk, but if she is watching, I would pull the plug, keep her near me, surround her with piano lessons and read alouds, fun trips to fun plays that are educational and end with ice cream. I would meep her busy discovering another world.

 

I would not present it as punishment, but as a delightful adverse. I would keep my child with me as much as possible.

Edited September 22, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Kathleen in VA]

I've just spent several days visiting with friends whose small dds watch hours and hours of Disney channel. I am pretty darn liberal, and I do have a 12 yr old daughter. We do have a tv although we do nor have cable. Even in my liberaness, but I have to say that I am shocked and appalled at this programing. Everyone is pretty and hip and the ones who are not are considered nerds and worse.

 

Everyone has special powers or gifts or sings and flips their hair. You must be popular. It's worse than I could have imagined. Its so couched in innocence and cuteness, i can see why many parents don't see it as dangerous. I may have seen a show or two on vacation with the children, but never. ever did they watch show after show. I did not realize even at 11 pm at night they are repeating all this insipid garbage. The fashions shows, the contests, the interviews, the dancing... Nothing intellectual about it and it is all based on looks and becoming famous.

 

Kids are being bombarded with this and I had no idea how out of the mainstream my children were. I am so glad I didn't bring my 12 yr old

On this trip. No child can fight that. It's 24/7 of all the wrong messages.

 

It sounds as if your dd has experienced trauma greater than this junk, but if she is watching, I would pull the plug, keep her near me, surround her with piano lessons and read alouds, fun trips to fun plays that are educational and end with ice cream. I would meep her busy discovering another world.

 

I would not present it as punishment, but as a delightful adverse. I would keep my child with me as much as possible.

 

:iagree:Exactly. Keep her near you in fun, loving, cozy, memory-making ways.

[LibraryLover]

I'm typing from my phone so editing is difficult for me. I meant delightful adventure. Not adverse. ;)

 

Change it up. Break as many old patterns as you can. I'm sorry you're having to worry. It's not easy trying to fight reality and a difficult world.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

I mentioned to DH about pulling her from PS. He's not convinced. We will be taking away the cell phone for good - we just need to find a good alternative for the times when she needed it (legitimately) - we don't have a landline. She will not be allowed to attend social events without our supervision (school dances, skate night, etc) and will be dropped off and picked up right at class time when going to PS. She has already been without internet and email for a year or so now.

 

I'm going to make a very serious effort to get her back into the church youth group she was a part of prior to our busy softball season setting in or one similar (we often make excuses not to go because it's a hefty drive over there) that is closer to our house. I'm going to buy the prince charming book & have her read it.

 

DH and I haven't confronted her yet. We wanted to have our ducks in a row and have a plan of action before we approached her. I feel like I'm getting to where I can do that now. I did conveniently make her phone "disappear", so she has not had access to it since I found it last night.

[Kathleen in VA]

I'm typing from my phone so editing is difficult for me. I meant delightful adventure. Not adverse. ;)

 

Change it up. Break as many old patterns as you can. I'm sorry you're having to worry. It's not easy trying to fight reality and a difficult world.

 

Ha! I didn't even see that - I guess I just knew what you meant. Is that the spell-check feature I've heard so many wonderful things about?:D

[Starr]

I would bring her home and change her environment all together. Just shoring up the hours of the same group doesn't really change things much.

[Kathleen in VA]

I mentioned to DH about pulling her from PS. He's not convinced. We will be taking away the cell phone for good - we just need to find a good alternative for the times when she needed it (legitimately) - we don't have a landline. She will not be allowed to attend social events without our supervision (school dances, skate night, etc) and will be dropped off and picked up right at class time when going to PS. She has already been without internet and email for a year or so now.

 

I'm going to make a very serious effort to get her back into the church youth group she was a part of prior to our busy softball season setting in or one similar (we often make excuses not to go because it's a hefty drive over there) that is closer to our house. I'm going to buy the prince charming book & have her read it.

 

DH and I haven't confronted her yet. We wanted to have our ducks in a row and have a plan of action before we approached her. I feel like I'm getting to where I can do that now. I did conveniently make her phone "disappear", so she has not had access to it since I found it last night.

 

Sounds like a plan. Definitely follow Dh's lead and pray earnestly for him as he makes these decisions. And, I probably don't need to actually say this, but the mom in me (I think I'm old enough to be your mom) needs to emphasize that during the times she is not at those outside activities you should make every effort to provide some pleasant alternative so she isn't feeling deprived, just loved.

[Liz CA]

I think Kathleen hit on it. Can your dh - even though he is not her bio Dad spend more time with her? Give her the male attention she craves? I think this is about feeling abandoned by her Dad and looking for replacement(s).

[twoforjoy]

If it were my DD, I'd sit her down, maybe gather some of her friends and my friends, and have a good, old fashioned, feminist consciousness raising session, and talk about all of the things that are being brought up here about societal expectations.

 

Does she have close relationships with older girls/women outside of the family? That might be another good thing for her. I know that having some older cousins, some teenage girls who were neighbors, and some younger (younger than my other aunts) aunts was a really important thing for me around that age.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

I think Kathleen hit on it. Can your dh - even though he is not her bio Dad spend more time with her? Give her the male attention she craves? I think this is about feeling abandoned by her Dad and looking for replacement(s).

 

I've been encouraging this for years. DH, admittedly, isn't the best at it, and DD resists to some extent, because he has been a bit hard on her in the past. He recognizes the need to improve and has made a conscious effort to do so, but really, it's baby steps right now.

[FaithManor]

DD is mentoring a 14 year old girl with a similar issue to yours. Her self-esteem was really floundering and causing some rather adverse behaviors. Her parents, under advisment from a counselor, decided to see if she would respond to a mentor/big sister role model and approached our dd who has taken said girl under her wing.

 

The change is remarkable. In the past 6 months you'd think she was a new child. Dd hasn't done anything magical. But, she has spent time with her every week, socially, taken her places together, encouraged her, talked openly about what it means to be a strong, self-confident person and where that inner strength comes from, how important it is to not be taken in by your peer group, etc.

 

Maybe you could find a college girl or late high schooler you can trust who could do the same thing for your dd. Sometimes, seeing what we mean as parents, lived out in the lives of someone that our kids think is "cool", helps them internalize the message.

 

Faith

[k2bdeutmeyer]

DD is mentoring a 14 year old girl with a similar issue to yours. Her self-esteem was really floundering and causing some rather adverse behaviors. Her parents, under advisment from a counselor, decided to see if she would respond to a mentor/big sister role model and approached our dd who has taken said girl under her wing.

 

The change is remarkable. In the past 6 months you'd think she was a new child. Dd hasn't done anything magical. But, she has spent time with her every week, socially, taken her places together, encouraged her, talked openly about what it means to be a strong, self-confident person and where that inner strength comes from, how important it is to not be taken in by your peer group, etc.

 

Maybe you could find a college girl or late high schooler you can trust who could do the same thing for your dd. Sometimes, seeing what we mean as parents, lived out in the lives of someone that our kids think is "cool", helps them internalize the message.

 

Faith

 

I think this is a fantastic idea & I think DD would respond very well to it. But how would I go about finding someone??

[Jan in SC]

I'm reading (way) between the lines here, so forgive me if I don't quite grasp the situation. If your dd is willing to do anything for attention, I would seriously worry about past abuse. If it were my child, even if abuse didn't occur, but inappropriate activities, or even discussions of activities occurred, I would find a counselor immediately. (I am not a -look for abuse anywhere- person, either.) I think you might be seeing giant red flags for the teenage years, if this isn't dealt with in the right way. Other activities are great and removing her from old friends might help, but some problems cannot be solved that way.

[JVA]

Well, that certainly does not help.:tongue_smilie:

 

Here are a few book suggestions:

 

Lies Young Women Believe

 

Before You Meet Prince Charming

 

The Princess and the Kiss

 

A Young Woman After God's Own Heart

 

:iagree::iagree: I heartily recommend Lies Young Women Believe. I've given it to my nieces and went thru the Lies Women Believe with our daughter years ago. All of these are good, however. Maybe make it a date- do something fun that she likes and discuss a chapter or two while you're out.

[JVA]

I think this is a fantastic idea & I think DD would respond very well to it. But how would I go about finding someone??

 

 

 

This IS a great idea. Are you associated with a church? Any kind of community groups? Start by asking around. Calling a church you feel good about and ask to speak to the youth pastor. He might be able to recommend some young women who could fit this description.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

This IS a great idea. Are you associated with a church? Any kind of community groups? Start by asking around. Calling a church you feel good about and ask to speak to the youth pastor. He might be able to recommend some young women who could fit this description.

 

We had been testing out a new church prior to softball season and had attended several times & liked it. Then, busy softball season set in (think over 90 games last season) and it was on the other side of town. We all but stopped going.

 

Today, I looked up a church closer to us. One that I know DH won't go to (he is a 110% catholic & this church is VERY evangelical), but that DD would LOVE. I asked her if she would be interested in going to their middle school youth group on Wednesday nights. She was VERY excited :)

[LibraryLover]

I would bring her home and change her environment all together. Just shoring up the hours of the same group doesn't really change things much.

 

:iagree:

[elegantlion]

Do you have a Big Brother/Big Sister program? I think they are geared more for children without a parent, but they might be able to direct you to an organization with mentors.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

Do you have a Big Brother/Big Sister program? I think they are geared more for children without a parent, but they might be able to direct you to an organization with mentors.

 

We do.....but I agree in that I'm not sure it's the right program for her. I'll check into it though.

[Rosie_0801]

I mentioned to DH about pulling her from PS. He's not convinced. We will be taking away the cell phone for good - we just need to find a good alternative for the times when she needed it (legitimately) - we don't have a landline. She will not be allowed to attend social events without our supervision (school dances, skate night, etc) and will be dropped off and picked up right at class time when going to PS. She has already been without internet and email for a year or so now.

 

I'm going to make a very serious effort to get her back into the church youth group she was a part of prior to our busy softball season setting in or one similar (we often make excuses not to go because it's a hefty drive over there) that is closer to our house. I'm going to buy the prince charming book & have her read it.

 

DH and I haven't confronted her yet. We wanted to have our ducks in a row and have a plan of action before we approached her. I feel like I'm getting to where I can do that now. I did conveniently make her phone "disappear", so she has not had access to it since I found it last night.

 

:grouphug:

 

That must all seem like punishment to her. I think you've done as much talking as you can about character, and what you need is action. I rekon she's interpreting your actions as punishing her for being who she is, because ditz-girl is who she is, even if it isn't all or the best of who she is. Punishing her for being who she is will not increase her self esteem. I have experience there. And I was being punished for being too sensible! :glare:

 

If she were mine, I'd pull her out of school, increase her access to grown women in a "junior member of the club" way, not a "go play with the kids so we can chat" way, and look for reasons to get her dressed up and take her out. There are much healthier ways to have her gaining confidence by participating in the wider world. It's hard with your two younger ones, but perhaps there are events you could go to on weekends. A Saturday morning cake decorating class? (And if they don't want to accept her because of her age, tell them why you are enquiring and they might well change their mind.) The occasional theatre performance? Confidence will come from knowing the routine of attending a performance, ordering from cafes, taking public transport, etc.

 

Your dh might not be convinced that pulling her from school will help, but is he convinced it won't?

 

Actually, there is one conversation you may not have had. I'd be talking about the masks we wear and encouraging her to develop ditz-girl into a mask to be worn when necessary, (and I'd try to avoid situations where it was!) not a whole persona.

 

:grouphug:

Rosie

[k2bdeutmeyer]

:grouphug:

 

That must all seem like punishment to her. I think you've done as much talking as you can about character, and what you need is action. I rekon she's interpreting your actions as punishing her for being who she is, because ditz-girl is who she is, even if it isn't all or the best of who she is. Punishing her for being who she is will not increase her self esteem. I have experience there. And I was being punished for being too sensible! :glare:

 

If she were mine, I'd pull her out of school, increase her access to grown women in a "junior member of the club" way, not a "go play with the kids so we can chat" way, and look for reasons to get her dressed up and take her out. There are much healthier ways to have her gaining confidence by participating in the wider world. It's hard with your two younger ones, but perhaps there are events you could go to on weekends. A Saturday morning cake decorating class? (And if they don't want to accept her because of her age, tell them why you are enquiring and they might well change their mind.) The occasional theatre performance? Confidence will come from knowing the routine of attending a performance, ordering from cafes, taking public transport, etc.

 

Your dh might not be convinced that pulling her from school will help, but is he convinced it won't?

 

Actually, there is one conversation you may not have had. I'd be talking about the masks we wear and encouraging her to develop ditz-girl into a mask to be worn when necessary, (and I'd try to avoid situations where it was!) not a whole persona.

 

:grouphug:

Rosie

 

Interesting perspective. I did just talk to her. She's a bit relieved. She "didn't want to be that person, but felt like she had to". The only thing she's upset about, or that feels like punishment to her is not being able to go to the skating rink.

 

I don't think the behaviors she's exhibiting are really who she is. She admits to this as well. In this case they involved inappropriate (VERY inappropriate!!!) texts from a boy. She allowed them and participated on a very minor level (mostly by not telling him to stop). The DD that isn't afraid of not being liked wouldn't do that.

 

I'm now aware of 4 additional texts that are equally inappropriate, but that were deleted by her. She has asked to join me in notifying the school & wants to be part of it. I think that's a good sign.

 

Thank you for all your help.....I so appreciate the advice. More than you all know!

[texasmama]

I don't want to assume anything about your dd's history, and please feel free to read only and not respond with any personal information to this.

 

If she has been s#xually abused and not had the opportunity to attend therapy with someone experienced in working with kids with an abuse history, now would be the time to do this.

 

Also, I only read the first page of posts, so pardon if this is irrelevant in some way or has been addressed in subsequent posts.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

I don't want to assume anything about your dd's history, and please feel free to read only and not respond with any personal information to this.

 

If she has been s#xually abused and not had the opportunity to attend therapy with someone experienced in working with kids with an abuse history, now would be the time to do this.

 

Also, I only read the first page of posts, so pardon if this is irrelevant in some way or has been addressed in subsequent posts.

 

I can see where this could/would come up as a concern. I don't believe this is an issue for her. The only thing even close was the fact that her (then) 14yr old half brother (at her dad's house) showed her p*rn at only 9yr old!! She clicked on an ad by accident and when she told her brother who was "supervising" he said "oh, that's nothing" and showed her more!! :blink:

 

I think she is just THAT desperate for people to like her. I'm not sure where that desperation comes from though.

[texasmama]

I can see where this could/would come up as a concern. I don't believe this is an issue for her. The only thing even close was the fact that her (then) 14yr old half brother (at her dad's house) showed her p*rn at only 9yr old!! She clicked on an ad by accident and when she told her brother who was "supervising" he said "oh, that's nothing" and showed her more!! :blink:

 

I think she is just THAT desperate for people to like her. I'm not sure where that desperation comes from though.

 

I recall this history now. In your shoes, I would still take her to therapy. It is possible that she has had an experience which goes beyond what you are aware of (not necessarily with the half brother but with someone else). Early sexualization is one of the signs of abuse. Many, many kids don't tell parents, even when asked. Some kids won't even tell a therapist. But I would at least strongly consider a trial in therapy to see if there are concerns about which you may be unaware.

[WishboneDawn]

A few thoughts.

 

I know your DH isn't her bio dad but do they have a good relationship? Could he start taking her out for time alone like a movie or dinner at a restaurant to model proper male attention? Are there other older males you could trust as well to maybe teach her a skill or something so she can see how she should be treated by men?

 

And in my experience (not great I admit), talking is of limited help in matters like this. Girls need things to do, skills to be proud of and see the value in. So sports but maybe some really challenging and unusual stuff too like orienteering or changing the tires on your car. Independent stuff too, unlike team sports, that she can gain accomplishment from on her own. Martial arts would be great.

 

And, if possible, model some relationships you have with folks that you don't especially like or don't like you and talk about them. Someone you don't care for but still respect or someone you know is cold to you but you deal with anyway and aren't hurt by?

[Rosie_0801]

Are there other older males you could trust as well to maybe teach her a skill or something so she can see how she should be treated by men?

 

Yeah, it was a bit of a shock to me to learn that a polite man might buy me a drink. I thought that was only a dating thing, not something someone else's boyfriend might do just to be mannerly.

 

Rosie

[2squared]

DD is mentoring a 14 year old girl with a similar issue to yours. Her self-esteem was really floundering and causing some rather adverse behaviors. Her parents, under advisment from a counselor, decided to see if she would respond to a mentor/big sister role model and approached our dd who has taken said girl under her wing.

 

The change is remarkable. In the past 6 months you'd think she was a new child. Dd hasn't done anything magical. But, she has spent time with her every week, socially, taken her places together, encouraged her, talked openly about what it means to be a strong, self-confident person and where that inner strength comes from, how important it is to not be taken in by your peer group, etc.

 

Maybe you could find a college girl or late high schooler you can trust who could do the same thing for your dd. Sometimes, seeing what we mean as parents, lived out in the lives of someone that our kids think is "cool", helps them internalize the message.

 

Faith

 

This is a great idea. I purposefully pick our babysitters to be role models for my oldest dd. Our babysitters have come from our homeschooling circles, 4-H, and church. My current babysitters are 16yo twins who are very talented in homemaking skills, and dd loves learning from them.

[Free]

:grouphug:

 

That must all seem like punishment to her. I think you've done as much talking as you can about character, and what you need is action. I rekon she's interpreting your actions as punishing her for being who she is, because ditz-girl is who she is, even if it isn't all or the best of who she is. Punishing her for being who she is will not increase her self esteem. I have experience there. And I was being punished for being too sensible! :glare:

 

If she were mine, I'd pull her out of school, increase her access to grown women in a "junior member of the club" way, not a "go play with the kids so we can chat" way, and look for reasons to get her dressed up and take her out. There are much healthier ways to have her gaining confidence by participating in the wider world. It's hard with your two younger ones, but perhaps there are events you could go to on weekends. A Saturday morning cake decorating class? (And if they don't want to accept her because of her age, tell them why you are enquiring and they might well change their mind.) The occasional theatre performance? Confidence will come from knowing the routine of attending a performance, ordering from cafes, taking public transport, etc.

 

Your dh might not be convinced that pulling her from school will help, but is he convinced it won't?

 

Actually, there is one conversation you may not have had. I'd be talking about the masks we wear and encouraging her to develop ditz-girl into a mask to be worn when necessary, (and I'd try to avoid situations where it was!) not a whole persona.

 

:grouphug:

Rosie

 

I love this post so much! I can relate to your daughter's situation because I did go through a similar phase as a girl, and my parents, even though their intentions were good, ended up making me feel bad about who I was as a person. It took me years of self introspection to stop this negative self talk that I was indulging in.

 

A girl can often seek attention because it makes her feel good about herself. It is not always sexual - it can often be about seeking acceptance. In my experience, when a parent judges the child's behavior as wrong or bad, it does not necessarily inspire change. It does however feed a vicious cycle where the child feels less about herself and ends up seeking more and more validation from outside.

 

That is why I feel Rosie hit the nail on the head. Yes she needs to meet and interact with more confident mature women who find their self worth from within. It would be wonderful if she finds a mentor who she looks up to. But above all, IMO, she needs you to trust her and accept her (even when she is being terribly flirtatious). Your implicit trust in her may actually trigger the change which you are hoping to bring about.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

I completely understand that perspective, and will definitely be watching myself closely to ensure that I am not doing this to my DD. It's not "flirtiness" that is the problem. It's often saying mean things to other people (though this seems to have lessened by a lot since bringing her home 1.5 yr ago), treating people poorly, etc.

 

As it turned out, this instance she actually didn't do anything wrong - aside from not trying to stop the boy, or telling someone. In this case, she was a victim, because she thought she "had to be" in order for this kid to like her. She was relieved when I found out and could put a stop to it.

 

Now that I know she was not involved.....I'm going to start a "what to do" thread, because I truly am at a loss!

[LibraryLover]

Yes! Especially the punishment part. I bolded some other things as well. It seems to me she is screaming for a different life-- but not for a life where she feels punished and deprived. She needs a newer life of enrichment; she needs to see it can be so much better. She needs to know there are far, far more interesting worlds for her to discover.

 

What she is experiencing is junk junk junk and more junk.

 

She is a child who needs who needs less time (not different time) with peers. She needs parent time. Not parent punishment time where she will seethe and think of ways to sneak around. She needs enrichment time. Time where she can see the possibilities of a life which is not about being popular or wearing the the right clothing or getting boys to like her by acting a certain way or flipping her hair around etc.

 

Books, museums, theater, well supervised enrichment classes, drawing lessons or paino lessons etc. Whatever you can afford- whatever will help her to discover the strong and capable girl inside.

 

Rosie's last sentence is about something I call 'code-shifting', and it's not a bad skill to have. She just needs to know when to call if off-- when it's not safe. I've known brilliant young women who have used this to spare themselves certain trauma at certain events. It seems sad, but sometimes nice kids have to not stand out during the "OMGs and the No Ways and I know, right?". It might seem sad, kids can't always keep themselves away from this, especially in a middle school or youth group setting.

 

 

:grouphug:

 

That must all seem like punishment to her. I think you've done as much talking as you can about character, and what you need is action. I rekon she's interpreting your actions as punishing her for being who she is, because ditz-girl is who she is, even if it isn't all or the best of who she is. Punishing her for being who she is will not increase her self esteem. I have experience there. And I was being punished for being too sensible! :glare:

 

If she were mine, I'd pull her out of school, increase her access to grown women in a "junior member of the club" way, not a "go play with the kids so we can chat" way, and look for reasons to get her dressed up and take her out. There are much healthier ways to have her gaining confidence by participating in the wider world. It's hard with your two younger ones, but perhaps there are events you could go to on weekends. A Saturday morning cake decorating class? (And if they don't want to accept her because of her age, tell them why you are enquiring and they might well change their mind.) The occasional theatre performance? Confidence will come from knowing the routine of attending a performance, ordering from cafes, taking public transport, etc.

 

Your dh might not be convinced that pulling her from school will help, but is he convinced it won't?

 

Actually, there is one conversation you may not have had. I'd be talking about the masks we wear and encouraging her to develop ditz-girl into a mask to be worn when necessary, (and I'd try to avoid situations where it was!) not a whole persona.

 

:grouphug:

Rosie

Edited September 21, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Free]

As it turned out, this instance she actually didn't do anything wrong - aside from not trying to stop the boy, or telling someone. In this case, she was a victim, because she thought she "had to be" in order for this kid to like her. She was relieved when I found out and could put a stop to it.

 

If she is a people pleaser, then she may not know how to say NO and set boundaries for herself. It may help if you rehearse (gently) a few possible scenarios in which she will need to assert herself.

 

Even with this though, she may still have a difficult time actually standing up for herself - it takes practice and it takes experience to know that losing a few friends will not mean the end of the world.

 

Even if she does fail a few times in setting appropriate boundaries, if she can trust you and confide in you, that would go a long way in keeping her safe.

[fairfarmhand]

I've just spent several days visiting with friends whose small dds watch hours and hours of Disney channel. I am pretty darn liberal, and I do have a 12 yr old daughter. We do have a tv although we do not have cable. Even in my liberalness, I have to say that I am shocked and appalled at this programing. Everyone is pretty and hip and the ones who are not are considered nerds and worse.

 

Everyone has special powers or gifts or sings and flips their hair. You must be popular. It's worse than I could have imagined. Its so couched in innocence and cuteness, i can see why many parents don't see it as dangerous. I may have seen a show or two on vacation with the children, but never. ever did they watch show after show. I did not realize That even at 11 pm at night they are repeating all this insipid garbage. The fashions shows, the contests, the interviews, the dancing... Nothing intellectual about it and it is all based on looks and becoming famous.

 

Kids are being bombarded with this and I had no idea how out of the mainstream my children were. I am so glad I didn't

bring my 12 yr old

On this trip. No child can fight that. It's 24/7 of all the wrong messages.

 

It sounds as if your dd has experienced trauma greater than this junk, but if she is watching, I would pull the plug, keep her near me, surround her with piano lessons and read alouds, fun trips to fun plays that are educational and end with ice cream. I would meep her busy discovering another world.

 

I would not present it as punishment, but as a delightful adverse. I would keep my child with me as much as possible.

:hurray::hurray::hurray:

 

YES YES YES!!!!!

 

We pulled the plug on TV years ago. MY dd at age 13 realizes that tween TV is absolutely idiotic. Pull your dd close to your side, and make it fun.

[fairfarmhand]

One place I have found FABULOUS friends for my dd is in 4H activities...(repeat after me: 4H is not just farm stuff) THe kids are great, but the adults...wow...the adults have been so good for my dd. She REALLY loves one of the leaders who is well over 60, but my dd volunteers to work activities just to be around this lady.

[Rosie_0801]

If she is a people pleaser, then she may not know how to say NO and set boundaries for herself. It may help if you rehearse (gently) a few possible scenarios in which she will need to assert herself.

 

And if she needs a ditz-girl way to say no, she can squeal "OMG! That is disgusting! I can't believe you just did that!" as well as any of the rest do.

 

Rosie

[AngelBee]

Praying.

[texasmama]

The Big Brother/Big Sister program is for kids from two parent families. That might be a good step to take, as a previous poster mentioned. There is often a longish waiting list, so you should start now if you think you might be even a bit interested.