WWYD: Co-op class essentially a waste

[Samiam]

My DS13 is taking Apologia Physical science at co-op, for 1 hour and 1/2 a week.

 

I've had the book, the tests, the Lab sheets for 2 months. I let them sit there, even though we started school in August, and it drove me nuts not to get him started on that. I wanted to wait and see what the co-op teacher was going to do.

 

Week 1: Teacher talking....no assignments came home...just very basic intro stuff.

 

Week 2: Teacher sent home photocopies of the first Module!! What?! My DS13 said she did this so students would not have to purchase the book. Umm, first, I think that is illegal, and second, it was my understanding that students needed the book for the class, and third, umm, well, just REALLY?!?! I asked DS13 what they had done in class. He said teacher read through the chapter with them. Their assignment is to do the Module 1 test for this Friday (which she had also photocopied and handed out).

 

Hmm.

 

What I wanted: Clear cut syllabus with weekly, if not daily, assignments for reading the Modules. Vocab words to be assigned. One Your Own questions to be assigned. LABS!!!! I mean, truly, I think there are 2-3 brief experiments that are in Module 1....all which could have been done in class.

 

I guess my expectations are high. These are all things I would have been assigning if we were just doing this at home. I am going to email the teacher to see exactly what, if any, syllabus/layout/plan is happening. Still trying to figure out how to ask this diplomatically, without stepping on toes...suggestions on this?

 

The thing is this is a 2 semester class, each 12 weeks. So 24 weeks...16 modules...if you do 1 module for 2 weeks....not going to fit into 24 weeks, and the first 2 weeks have already been wasted, IMHO. Which then means some modules would only have 1 week....kind of a tight squeeze, if you ask me.

 

But here's what I am thinking my options are:

1. Just let it go. Let him do the mininum that it appears is being required, and just let it be "enough".:glare:

2. Pull him completely from the class. He would probably just use that hour for "study hall" then, not sure if there are other classes he could join that hour that would be suitable for him

3. Let him go, but use it as "supplement" and I follow the path that I want here at home. Hoping they will do some sort of labs there (which is really the main reason I wanted him to do this class in a group setting). The only problem is that the class may be ahead or behind in what Module they study versus the schedule I want to keep. Which means double work for him, potentially, to finish whatever assignment from there, meanwhile I am having him do Vocab, Questions, Practice tests, etc from a different module if we are on a different schedule.

 

What to do?

Edited September 18, 2011 by Samiam

[Jean in Newcastle]

Pull him from the class. Have him do your own work during that time. If all the co-op classes are this caliber, I'd drop the whole co-op.

[Old Dominion Heather]

I'd pull him out. What a waste! AND I'd absolutely call the teacher on the carpet for the illegal copying.

[Harriet Vane]

Pull him from the class. Have him do your own work during that time. If all the co-op classes are this caliber, I'd drop the whole co-op.

 

:iagree:

 

My dd is taking physical science through co-op using Apologia as well. She had to do extensive prep for Module 1 before the first class meeting. They use much of class time for labs and are expected to do daily written homework at home. Parents administer and grade tests at home so that the co-op can be devoted to labs and actual teaching.

 

Trying to pull someone into beefing up a class is torture. Don't do it. Just pull your kid now so you don't waste your valuable time.

 

And YES, photocopying a textbook for distribution is totally illegal and I would not have anything to do with it.

[Mothersweets]

Maybe you could forget about the co-op and just use debbiec's website? Here is her post about it. She built a class website all about Apologia General Science - flashcards, links, etc. GS Class Website

 

She also has one for Apologia Physical Science. Pretty handy!

[mrs.m]

I would discuss it with the teacher. If it doesn't seem like it is heading the direction I want, we would drop the class. It could just be a slow start and will pick up next week? But if not, drop it!

[pfamilygal]

I teach Apologia General Science at my co-op. The kids do all the work at home (OYO, Study Guides, Vocab and reading). We use class time for the labs and reviewing the study guides together.

 

Your class sounds like a waste of time!

[Ria]

Pull him out now and get the book done. I ran a tight ship when I taught the Apologia classes. He deserves an education. Give him one...drop this class.

[Kathleen in VA]

Maybe you could forget about the co-op and just use debbiec's website? Here is her post about it. She built a class website all about Apologia General Science - flashcards, links, etc. GS Class Website

 

She also has one for Apologia Physical Science. Pretty handy!

 

:iagree:This is what I was going to suggest. I might also buy the DIVE cd that coincides with this book. It is called Integrated Chemistry and Physics but the author has produced a syllabus to sync it to Apologia Physical Science. He also does the labs on the cd.

[jelbe5]

Donna Young's website has printable lesson plans, etc. for several Apologia books. Photocopying the book for distribution is completely illegal. I would pull my child from the class. Sorry this is such a dissapointment.

[regentrude]

Pull him out. If you wanted to waste your child's time, you could send him to public school.

Second, talk to the teacher. it is illegal to distribute photocopies of the book. She may mean well, but this is unethical.

[~Jo]

I'd pull him too.

 

Are you paying money for this???? :001_huh:

 

My son is taking chemistry (Apologia). His teacher is kicking his butt. He has a LOT of work to do at home and then class is FULL of working problems, doing labs and reviewing for tests. She has them do an extra handout per Module that she creates herself. I do pay a monthly fee and the teacher is a polymer chemist. This class has been worth EVERY penny!!! This is what I would be looking for in a class that involved my time. I have too little of it to waste.

[HS Mom in NC]

My DS13 is taking Apologia Physical science at co-op, for 1 hour and 1/2 a week.

 

 

I guess my expectations are high. These are all things I would have been assigning if we were just doing this at home. I am going to email the teacher to see exactly what, if any, syllabus/layout/plan is happening. Still trying to figure out how to ask this diplomatically, without stepping on toes...suggestions on this?

 

 

What to do?

 

Yes. It's too late now, but this should help for next time. This is something that should have been done before signing up for the class. Detailed questions about the syllabus and plans should have been asked before signing up and you should have been up front with the person leading the co-op about exactly what you were looking for. You clearly had specific expectations (very good and reasonable expectations) but it seems you just assumed someone else is going to do what you would have done. That's almost never the case. This happens in co-ops all the time. There are a whole lot of veteran HSers who avoid co-ops like the plague for this very reason.

 

This is exactly the reason we have so many refugee HSers from the public school system. Usually people who first had their kids in a ps and pulled them out didn't the the curriculum, teaching methods, schedules, social environment, etc. They wanted something that better suited their own goals and expectations for their own kids. It should make them more careful about choosing co-ops because it's the same sort of issues on a smaller scale. It is unlikely you will get it your way when someone else does it.

 

The veteran HSers who do co-op happily are usually very careful who they invite to join the co-op. They usually pick people they know very well and who have very similar expectations, teaching styles, schedules, beahvioral standards, etc.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Another help to use if you decide to go it alone (and I would): Sonlight sells a very easy-to-use schedule and a supplies kit. The course becomes open-and-go for you to supervise.

 

Sonlight Science 150

[Margo out of lurking]

What to do?

 

What would I do? Pull my child from the class, invest in the DIVE CDs and have him do the lessons at home.

 

IF I felt the labs were better done in a group setting than in my home, and IF it didn't cost me anything different either way, and IF I could count on the teacher to actually do the labs, I would possibly consider keeping him in the class for the lab work.

 

I think you can just email the teacher and ask. "Dear Mrs. Teacher. I have a couple of questions about the science class and hope that you can help. I noticed that there will not be enough class time to spend two weeks per module. Will you be completing some modules in just one week, or will the class be expected to finish out the book at home when school ends? Are the students expected to do the lab work for Module 1 at home, or will it be done in class at a later time? Is there any work that will be expected every day, or will a weekly assignment list be sent home? Thank you so much for answering my questions, as I'm trying to plan out our school year and want to make sure I allow enough time for everything we have scheduled."

 

Is there any avenue for complaints? This sounds completely awful. What a disappointment.

 

I'm so shocked by the copying of the text that I can't even comment on that. :confused::confused:

 

Fwiw, my dd is taking an outside Apologia Chemistry class. She has clear homework assignments, a weekly lecture, and a quiz or test, alternating weekly. She's in the class for three hours and I'm fully expecting her to be working 1/2 an hour a day during the remainder of the week. (And, ugh, it's chemistry, it'd be so nice if it was a class that didn't take quite so much time!)

[Little Nyssa]

Talk to the teacher & give her a chance to explain her plans. There may be more going on in class than yr son reports back?

[ccm]

Talk to the teacher & give her a chance to explain her plans. There may be more going on in class than yr son reports back?

:iagree:

 

The teacher may be a bit slow getting started and get up to speed in the next few weeks.

 

Also, it is wrong to copy out of the textbook, but on the Apologia website, there is a sample module PDF that she may have copied for the students. Not sure if that's okay but could see her doing that. Perhaps some of the students had the first edition and the co-op is using the second edition. By handing the first edition students the PDF copy, they can keep up with the class until they purchase the second edition.

http://www.apologia.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3

Edited September 19, 2011 by ccm

[Samiam]

Thanks for confirming that I was not just being "overbearing". I tend to be like that, sometimes, lol!

 

We wouldn't pull completely from the co-op as there are many other classes that my three DS take that are great there, and it is probably the first thing that all three of them go to, that NONE of them complain about (which is a FIRST for us!). I can't remember if we paid for the Physical Science class, as we registered back in July, but even if we did, it was a VERY small amount (as in I paid a grand total of $52 for all of the classes my three boys (x 4 classes each) are taking. ) So walking away from that particular class would not be a loss of any great $$$ and completely fine.

 

Plus I get that as with any group setting, there are going to be differences in expectations. But man, really, I just thought that anyone who is wiling to step up to the plate and volunteer to teach Apologia Physical science would be ready to be on their game. I guess I forgot that not everyone plays the same game by my rules. Normally I wouldn't get so riled up, but for science at this level, leading to High School, I really wanted it stepped up. I wanted to see my son "pushed" a bit, cause waay to many things come easy to him.

 

So after reading all of your great advice, here's my plan:

 

1. Email the teacher. We are not going to be there this Friday, so this gives me a great way to start the conversation, just asking what he will miss, what he will need to make up, and "oh, by the way, what do you have planned for the rest of the semester"....I'll probably use the wording that Kristine provided....thanks for that, btw...I tend to lack in tact :).

 

2. Depending on the teacher response, unless she really REALLY impresses me on her plans, and especially lab plans, I will pull him. I had already bookmarked that site that someone (forget her name at the moment) had made, it's really amazing. Videos, flashcards, etc!

 

3. Monday, I will start my DS on the plans I would have followed, from the above link and from Donna Young's site.

 

3. Because I am new to the co-op this year, and have already made a fuss about a few other issues (apparently I am fussy, lol!), I am going to wait and see if other copies come home or see if the teacher says we need the book in my email to her (I'm going to specifically ask). I looked at that link that someone gave here to Apologia's site, with the sample Module 1. I don't think that is where she got her copies. The copy my DS has even has the Student Notes, 2nd edition listed on it. Those notes are not even in the actual module in the book, nor online sample, as they are in the first few pages of the book. So I am pretty sure she copied it right from the book itself. Not to mention my son's response to me. I had pulled out the papers because I wanted to see what is assigned, what is going on, etc. So as I am looking through them, I see they are word for word the same as the book (having read the first module myself from the book). I am utterly confused as to why he has this. I mean, of all the things he could have come home with, it's a complete print out of the first chapter?? So I asked him, and he stated "She gave us it to us, she said it is the same as the book". I said "I know it is the same as the book, but I don't understand why she gave it out." He said,"She said she is just going to make copies so that everyone does not have to purchase the book.". Ugh.

So I don't want to raise a big mess about this just yet. I want to confirm if this is actually what is happening before I mention it to the co-op director. I mean, it is a Christian co-op. Surely the board members, and director would not approve of this, right?

[Samiam]

....and of course....the teacher's email is coming back as undeliverable. I have a nice little email composed, and it's being binged right back to me....ugh.

[msjones]

Pull him from the class. Have him do your own work during that time. If all the co-op classes are this caliber, I'd drop the whole co-op.

 

:iagree:

[texasmama]

I would drop the class. My elementary aged boys have done Apologia sciences for two years at a co op which had a clear syllabus and expectations. The teacher reviewed the material, assigned student presentations and did the hands on activities during class.

 

This sounds like a waste of time. This program is too good to be done in this manner.

[justasque]

I wonder (as I am ever the optimist) if she copied the first chapter because not everyone had the book in their hands yet? I know in our co-op there's often a flurry of chaos in the first week if certain books were hard to find. For example, if you look up the ISBN of one of our science books on Amazon, it comes up as a book on the Greek Isles or something. So some folks had trouble finding it. (This one isn't used until later, so it wasn't an issue, but there were one or two others that were hard to find.)

[Laurie4b]

3. Let him go, but use it as "supplement" and I follow the path that I want here at home. Hoping they will do some sort of labs there (which is really the main reason I wanted him to do this class in a group setting). The only problem is that the class may be ahead or behind in what Module they study versus the schedule I want to keep. Which means double work for him, potentially, to finish whatever assignment from there, meanwhile I am having him do Vocab, Questions, Practice tests, etc from a different module if we are on a different schedule.

 

What to do?

 

This is the option that I would choose. You do get someone going over the chapter with him and hopefully doing experiments. (That's why I've always paid for science courses: labs taken care of; someone to explain subjects I don't recall.) If I wanted him to have a syllabus of assignments, I would write it out myself. If I wanted him to do vocab, i would assign that myself. If this class is only once a week, I think it's reasonable for you to be involved in this level.

 

I would communicate with teacher and let him know you have the books, so he doesn't need to give your ds photocopies. (That willl ease your conscience. It is illegal, but I would only make your ds your business here. It probably is legal to photocopy the tests.)

 

I would ask if a syllabus is coming *because you like to plan ahead.* (Not because he's negligent not to have given one.) People generally respond better to inquiries like that.

[Samiam]

I emailed the teacher.

 

1.No syllabus to be handed out. 2.Fully intends to copy chapters for students as "the book is expensive". Let's not forget that the co-op has known since AT LEAST June that this class was being offered, and I say at least because that is when I joined the co-op and saw the class list, but prior members would have known sooner. So there certainly has been time, and 2 major used curriculum sales in our area, to find the book used for those that had a $$ concern. Which is exactly what I did. 3. No Labs will be done in class, they can be done at home "if we want to". :001_huh:

 

So I have sent the email to the Board member who is in charge of class registrations etc, to have my son taken out of the class . And also mentioned the copyright infringement issue. We'll see what happens! We might be kicked out of co-op our first four weeks in! Crossing fingers that there is not alot of drama because that is really not my intentions.

[MtnTeaching]

I emailed the teacher.

 

1.No syllabus to be handed out. 2.Fully intends to copy chapters for students as "the book is expensive". Let's not forget that the co-op has known since AT LEAST June that this class was being offered, and I say at least because that is when I joined the co-op and saw the class list, but prior members would have known sooner. So there certainly has been time, and 2 major used curriculum sales in our area, to find the book used for those that had a $$ concern. Which is exactly what I did. 3. No Labs will be done in class, they can be done at home "if we want to". :001_huh:

 

So I have sent the email to the Board member who is in charge of class registrations etc, to have my son taken out of the class . And also mentioned the copyright infringement issue. We'll see what happens! We might be kicked out of co-op our first four weeks in! Crossing fingers that there is not alot of drama because that is really not my intentions.

 

You go, Girl! It does not sound as if this teacher (I use this term loosely) takes the job of educating your child as seriously as you do.

 

No labs??? Seriously????

[Harriet Vane]

I emailed the teacher.

 

1.No syllabus to be handed out. 2.Fully intends to copy chapters for students as "the book is expensive". Let's not forget that the co-op has known since AT LEAST June that this class was being offered, and I say at least because that is when I joined the co-op and saw the class list, but prior members would have known sooner. So there certainly has been time, and 2 major used curriculum sales in our area, to find the book used for those that had a $$ concern. Which is exactly what I did. 3. No Labs will be done in class, they can be done at home "if we want to". :001_huh:

 

So I have sent the email to the Board member who is in charge of class registrations etc, to have my son taken out of the class . And also mentioned the copyright infringement issue. We'll see what happens! We might be kicked out of co-op our first four weeks in! Crossing fingers that there is not alot of drama because that is really not my intentions.

 

Good for you! That class is a waste of time.

[AK_Mom4]

I emailed the teacher.

 

1.No syllabus to be handed out. 2.Fully intends to copy chapters for students as "the book is expensive". Let's not forget that the co-op has known since AT LEAST June that this class was being offered, and I say at least because that is when I joined the co-op and saw the class list, but prior members would have known sooner. So there certainly has been time, and 2 major used curriculum sales in our area, to find the book used for those that had a $$ concern. Which is exactly what I did. 3. No Labs will be done in class, they can be done at home "if we want to". :001_huh:

 

 

#3 is a super deal-breaker for me. Doing the labs with other kids would have been one of the main reasons for taking the class with the co-op!

 

And #2 is just flat wrong.