SKL Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 So yesterday and this morning, there must have been something in the air, because my kids were really off. Ignoring my directions, bugging each other, being rude, and an overdose of drama. We left the museum soon after we got there; skipped evening reading and writing in favor of an early bedtime; didn't drill this morning because the atmosphere was too negative. I feel that this is the way to ensure that future evenings will be more productive overall. But as I open my spreadsheet to log our learning time, I'm not feeling great about this. So I wonder - do you guys ever just set aside the lessons and focus on behaviors / attitudes, with a view to better long-term results? If not, what do you do instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink and Green Mom Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I'm hardly an expert but yes, if the attitude is bad enough I skip the lesson (or the rest of the day). The lesson is then done the next day, and we do a makeup day on Saturday. With Dad. Who doesn't make it nearly as fun and interesting as Mom:D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 yes, because the behaviours interfere with learning. IOW, without discipline there can be no learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_the_Rabbit_Hole Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Bad behavior is taken care of right then. Even if it something we need to work on for a a few days to get it right. The school time missed is to be added in during their free time. Let them know that goofing off or bad attitude will kill their play time. If they have ballet class or soccer or some other extra curricular activity, I would cut that out as well, maybe do the school they missed during these times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Yes, correct attitude/behavior comes before school. School comes before fun and games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kchara Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Yep, we absolutely do. We can always make up for missed lessons. Discipline and character training is infinitely more important, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 yes, because the behaviours interfere with learning. IOW, without discipline there can be no learning. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Instruction and correction in how to behave properly is part of a good education, don't you think? It isn't a question of putting discipline ahead of school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassy Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 This has never been an issue for me, no matter how bad their attitude I'm usually of the mindset "Keep calm and carry on". I'd be worried that putting off schoolwork would be rewarding bad behaviour. Of course I'd never use schoolwork as a punishment for bad behaviour, not often anyway :D. Cassy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 When my kids were younger, this was certianly an issue - and thankfully, because our days were shorter then we had time to deal with it and still get everything done. Now - DS knows the consequences of having an attitude will be pretty darn severe, and he'll STILL have to finish his work even if it takes him all evening. So - it hasn't been a problem since about 5th grade. If it was an issue (and I'm sure as he gets to be an older teen it will be :) ) I'd probably not stop school simply because we have too much to do, but he would be told the consequences, A) for what he did, and B)what they would be if he continued with the 'tude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 This has never been an issue for me, no matter how bad their attitude I'm usually of the mindset "Keep calm and carry on". I'd be worried that putting off schoolwork would be rewarding bad behaviour. Of course I'd never use schoolwork as a punishment for bad behaviour, not often anyway :D. Cassy Me too. I'm not understanding how getting out of doing what is asked addresses the discipline issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Me too. I'm not understanding how getting out of doing what is asked addresses the discipline issue. I think it's situational. There are certain instances that require Keep Calm and Carry On, and others that you just KNOW nothing will get accomplished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 I'd be worried that putting off schoolwork would be rewarding bad behaviour. I should note that my dd was devastated when she found out her behavior was going to result in no homework. And both girls love the time we spend reading together in the evenings. So in this particular case, skipping lessons was not a reward. I could see how it could be in some cases, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caitilin Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I think it's situational. There are certain instances that require Keep Calm and Carry On, and others that you just KNOW nothing will get accomplished. I agree, but I would stipulate that my kids know that once their own internal calm and any damaged relationship has been restored, schooling-as-normal resumes. We never ever lose a whole day of school. Occasionally, I might drop, say, a math lesson with one child, and have dad finish the lesson with dc later that day, as he comes into it without all the emotional baggage that I'd developed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5knights3maidens Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Going through this right at this moment. Dd (8) has decided not to do anything and even said a curse word at me. So, she will be doing school with Dad during the evening and on the weekend if need be. I also took her favorite play things. I'm tired of this. By the way, Dad came home for a minute and got her in her seat and when he went back to work she started back up. It's going to be an interesting day. She usually does things like this when it rains. I talked to the doctor about this and he said the weather does affect kids especally with asd. very interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Yes, but I'd expect results from the discipline *pronto* and adjust as needed to get back on track quickly because kids have a way of seeing what works to put off doing things they don't wanna do...like schoolwork. LOL I know that my kids seem to take note of the times when I just throw up my hands and say "forget it" to school. They might think it's worth it to misbehave for a WHILE just to get out of doing school, the stinkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 So I wonder - do you guys ever just set aside the lessons and focus on behaviors / attitudes, with a view to better long-term results? If not, what do you do instead? You betcha! I'm a parent first, and a teacher second. (Though I think if I were an actual employed teacher and I could get away with it as far as admin goes ... I'd be a disciplinarian first, teacher second.) In either case, I think it's important to first guide the child through life and then to worry about the academics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I'd be worried that putting off schoolwork would be rewarding bad behaviour. Cassy what if the consequences of the bad behavior are much worse than doing schoolwork? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma aimee Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 So yesterday and this morning, there must have been something in the air, because my kids were really off. Ignoring my directions, bugging each other, being rude, and an overdose of drama. We left the museum soon after we got there; skipped evening reading and writing in favor of an early bedtime; didn't drill this morning because the atmosphere was too negative. I feel that this is the way to ensure that future evenings will be more productive overall. But as I open my spreadsheet to log our learning time, I'm not feeling great about this. So I wonder - do you guys ever just set aside the lessons and focus on behaviors / attitudes, with a view to better long-term results? If not, what do you do instead? I put 'tude and behavior first because my kids are young and i klnow I need to buiild foundations. But i can see the issues; if they learn they can be a pill and not have to go school = more pill behavior? for me -- if my boys were old enough -- pill behavior would equal "school alone, seat work, in your room" not interactive / fun / school at the family table. work missed today due to early bedtime would have to be made up tomorrow by missing their time (screen time, play time). JM. for me, once the boys are a bit older, the school work for the day has to be done (I already tell kindy that); the rest is the extra. so if i have to address you being a pill 20 times and phonices takes 3 hours = no movie in the afternoon. I'd not let behavior END school, I'd have behavior modify school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 This has never been an issue for me, no matter how bad their attitude I'm usually of the mindset "Keep calm and carry on". I'd be worried that putting off schoolwork would be rewarding bad behaviour. Of course I'd never use schoolwork as a punishment for bad behaviour, not often anyway :D. Cassy But if the bad behavior is resulting in serious consequences, how is that rewarding the bad behavior?:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink and Green Mom Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 what if the consequences of the bad behavior are much worse than doing schoolwork? This is what I try to do. Mine (and it is really only my oldest) has to sit up on his bed and do nothing. Nothing. He can sit there until he is ready to work. If he becomes "ready" and it is convenient for me to resume work, we do. If not, he does it with Dad either that evening (and Dad is in no mood after work, so this is really a bad consequence) or on Saturday. But he sits with nothing to do until his attitude is better. And I also change the "tone" of the work if we've had to go through this. For example, we usually do as much of our math orally as we can. If we've had to stop for bad behavior, we write all of our math problems out. No skipped problems, nothing out loud so it is really extra work. This is only what I do if the behavior is really bad. If it is just low-level moaning or groaning and a warning changes it, we carry on as usual. BUt there are times when you just know it is going to escalate (mine is a button pusher) and that is when I resort to the going to the room thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassy Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 But if the bad behavior is resulting in serious consequences, how is that rewarding the bad behavior?:confused: If behaviour was so bad that it required serious consequences then they would suffer those consequences, but they'd also do school. I understood the OP to be saying that when her children behaved badly she cancelled school to concentrate on their behaviour, which didn't suggest 'serious consequences' to me. As it turns out no homework is a serious consequence for her DD (I never knew such children existed, she sounds wonderful to me). For my boys no schoolwork would probably make most consequences worth suffering. Hope that's clearer. Cassy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 There will be more learning long term if discipline is handled up front. For example, in some great teachers' classrooms, time is spent practicing lining up, passing papers, doing the morning routine, walking down the hall, etc at the beginning of the year. If you can get kids to pass papers up and the student in charge of papers to have them in the basket in five seconds flat rather than the normal 3 minutes it takes, you've gained an amazing amount of instruction time over the year. I watched a teacher yesterday take an incredible amount of time to get kids lined up. However, had they had a system in place (even if it meant that the kids took an hour or two over the first week of school to learn it), the children could line up in mere seconds instead. That would mean the teacher could continue instruction until literally one minute before it was time to leave the classroom. Again, that could really make a difference time wise over an entire school year. Now, in a home situation, if it is just an off day, I think nothing of taking the day off. If there are situations in life causing a temporary issues, even more than a day may be reasonable. Those times can be made up easily enough if you are conscientious. People who are dysregulated are not going to learn much, if anything; so I wouldn't push through a more emotional day. Better to recuperate and learn well another day. Minor upset or attitude, can simply be worked through. In real life, we all have to do that! So you just have to balance it and discern what situation you have then act accordingly :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 If behaviour was so bad that it required serious consequences then they would suffer those consequences, but they'd also do school. I understood the OP to be saying that when her children behaved badly she cancelled school to concentrate on their behaviour, which didn't suggest 'serious consequences' to me. As it turns out no homework is a serious consequence for her DD (I never knew such children existed, she sounds wonderful to me). I was really just tapping into the wisdom here for an overall sense of what is the right approach, as I'm new to homeschooling and this is our first "episode" since school started. But just to clarify our situation. My kids are in K, and we don't follow a formal curriculum, but I do hit all the basics most days. Every Wednesday we go to the museum because it's open late that day. I don't think my kids view this as "school," though I do. I wanted to accomplish some specific learning about earth/planets and then have the girls play at the construction exhibit (they look forward to this). Leaving was a punishment, as they did not get to play. Also, they missed having a sweet (out of their stash - they are usually allowed one in the evening), got a stern talking-to all the way home instead of their favorite music, and the main offender got an early bedtime instead of her beloved homework and reading time. The woeful crying indicated that the consequences were significant. I felt the punishments fit the crimes. (The kid who didn't have an early bedtime did homework.) However, I appreciate the point that as the kids get older and school feels more like a chore, kids might try to manipulate out of it via behaviors. It is definitely something to watch out for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I think it's situational. There are certain instances that require Keep Calm and Carry On, and others that you just KNOW nothing will get accomplished. At the very least, I know we would accomplish learning that we are not slaves to our emotions. At most, I'd inform them we are going to get through this, take 5 to hand them a tissue, give a hug, take 3 deep breaths, say we are going to manage better now and proceed as planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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