Interesting perspective on math woes in USA

[kristinannie]

I think that

is truly excellent. As long as we, as a society, keep focusing on sports or popularity instead of academic excellence, I really don't think that things will change in our country.

[eloquacious]

I'm curious about his statement that only those students tracked to math and science take the math and science tests. Does he have data to back this up? I was educated in Germany 1st and 2nd grade, America 3rd - 9th, and then Germany again 10th-13th. Germany does have a very decided tracking system, and whatever you say about its merits or problems, I loved it, for the most part, but I do not think that just because my "majors" were Music and English that I didn't have to partake in other testing. For instance, we all had to take math every year, and to graduate one of our Abitur exams had to be in Mathematics.

[kristinannie]

I really don't know about that statement. I am not a fan of tracking per se, but I really do think that our national attitude needs to change when it comes to academics. It is ridiculous that it is uncool to be smart and do well in school.

 

When you were in school, what was the tracking like? If you didn't get on a college prep track, did you not take the more difficult maths?

[MIch elle]

Have you read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell? Chapter 8 leads up to why Asians do so well in math, and the US doesn't do as well in math (Asian language that makes math easier at an early age & culture of working hard).

[eloquacious]

I have read Outliers, and I was struck by that innate advantage they have...but that is just one factor. I've seen curricula like Rightstart that insist on calling 12 ten-two, but I don't really see why there's a need to decide.

 

My son had no problem with "The A Says Ah," etc. Names and sounds. No deciding between the two, no huge theoretical discussion. I'm going to try to do the same with "the twelve is ten-two."

[regentrude]

He has some things fundamentally wrong.

The tracking in Germany is NOT done sorting math/science people and humanities people. The tracking is done based on overall academic aptitude, and every student who ends up on the college preparation track must take math through calculus and three sciences and two foreign languages, along with history, German etc. The final exam, the Abitur, which is the ticket to attend college, contains a mandatory written mathematics exam that is open response (none of this multiple choice nonsense - they actually have to solve problems) which has to be taken by everybody who wishes to attend college.

the Abitur also mandates written testing in at least one science, Germ,an, one foreign language, as well as several oral exams.

 

So, while there definitely is tracking, it has nothing to do with being mathematically minded or not - if you want to major in English, you have to take, and pass exams, in calculus in high school as well.

 

The main difference in math education is that the high school math teachers have actually studied math and are proficient.

[nmoira]

One requirement for a country to participate in TIMSS is that each student has an (approximately) equal chance of taking the test; the only exceptions are those students in extremely remote communities.

 

http://nces.ed.gov/timss/faq.asp#7

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I don't get the objection to tracking.

 

I think tracking should be available as long as they take care to place a student correctly. I was tracked into the lower levels 3 times in 5th, 6th, and 7th grades and told one month after the start of classes each time that they made a mistake but that it was too late to place me in the higher track:glare::( Parents were not as involved in the 70s in that they deferred to the schools. I think if they make a mistake as in my case, then it should be corrected that same year.

[Spy Car]

I'm curious about his statement that only those students tracked to math and science take the math and science tests. Does he have data to back this up? I was educated in Germany 1st and 2nd grade, America 3rd - 9th, and then Germany again 10th-13th. Germany does have a very decided tracking system, and whatever you say about its merits or problems, I loved it, for the most part, but I do not think that just because my "majors" were Music and English that I didn't have to partake in other testing. For instance, we all had to take math every year, and to graduate one of our Abitur exams had to be in Mathematics.

 

I struck on this too. I know of nothing to back up this claim.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

Have you read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell? Chapter 8 leads up to why Asians do so well in math, and the US doesn't do as well in math (Asian language that makes math easier at an early age & culture of working hard).

 

I have read Outliers, and I was struck by that innate advantage they have...but that is just one factor. I've seen curricula like Rightstart that insist on calling 12 ten-two, but I don't really see why there's a need to decide.

 

My son had no problem with "The A Says Ah," etc. Names and sounds. No deciding between the two, no huge theoretical discussion. I'm going to try to do the same with "the twelve is ten-two."

 

We used "math names" when starting out and I think it had a very good effect. Our were a little different than the scheme used in RightStart in calling a number like 412: 4-Hundreds 1-Ten 2-Units, but the same basic idea. And we tales about the crazy English names.

 

The "math names" not only avoid semantic confusion between numbers like fourteen and forty, but they also reenforced place value understanding.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

One requirement for a country to participate in TIMSS is that each student has an (approximately) equal chance of taking the test; the only exceptions are those students in extremely remote communities.

 

http://nces.ed.gov/timss/faq.asp#7

 

Thanks for this. This was my understanding too, but I didn't know where to find the supporting documents.

 

It is kind of galling to suggest that we are failing because the tests are unfair (when they are not).

 

Bill

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

Math and Science are not pressed in our schools enough. I have talked to retired teacher's and students about this. Rote memory work is obsolete. Calculators are allowed from grade school on. Dumbing Down America: John Gatto is a helpful resource. I have recently hear they are taking essay writing off of the College entrance exams.

:glare:

[Crimson Wife]

I don't get the objection to tracking.

 

I understand the historical problems with tracking where it was done as a way to get around court-ordered racial desegregation. There was a very real problem in certain places where administrators based track placement more on skin color than on actual intellectual potential. My dad witnessed this growing up in the Boston area during the '60's. He said that there were classmates of his whom he absolutely believes got placed into a lower track than they deserved simply because they were black.

 

Racism like this made it easy for the opponents of tracking to gain credibility and, when my dad's generation came into positions of power in the '80's and '90's, to do away with tracking for the most part.

 

It's really unfortunate that our country threw the baby out with the bathwater in this situation.

[kristinannie]

Math and Science are not pressed in our schools enough. I have talked to retired teacher's and students about this. Rote memory work is obsolete. Calculators are allowed from grade school on. Dumbing Down America: John Gatto is a helpful resource. I have recently hear they are taking essay writing off of the College entrance exams.

:glare:

 

In our PS, kindergarteners are given calculators (actually...the parents are required to purchase them). I think it is ridiculous for kids to use calculators. Calculators do definitely have a place and are very useful, but everyone should be able to do the math WITHOUT a calculator before they are allowed to use one. I know that the SAT changed between my taking it and my sister taking it. I know they changed the scoring and allowed the use of calculators. She scored higher than I did and won't let me forget it, but it wasn't the same test!!!

 

Spycar, I do think you are right concerning the tests being fair. Americans need to focus on why we don't do well on the tests and not on saying that the tests are unfair. We don't prioritize math and science as a nation. Parents don't get all excited when kids work on a science fair project or compete in a math comptetition. But if your kid is the star of the football team..... All I know is that the star athletes from my high school are working at Foot Locker and the "nerds" are heading up companies and working as professors...

[Matryoshka]

I think there's tracking and then there's tracking. I know I've heard of schools where if one was strong in math but weak in English but vice versa, one was required to be in either the top or lower track in both. That doesn't seem right at all.

 

But to just generally pretend everyone's the same and offer no differentiation doesn't seem right either. Trying to balance individual classes with the spectrum from high to low and differentiating each class seems inefficient. When I was in 8th, I was one of 5 kids who took Algebra. hey didn't even put us all in the same class - 2 in one, and 3 in the other. And then there were two different levels being taught in all of those - 8th Grade Math and Pre-Algebra. The teacher split his time between those two groups, and we Algebra kids were just given the book and had to teach ourselves. :001_huh: Wouldn't it have made more sense to have split the kids up between 8th Grade Math and Pre-Algebra, and/or mixed the Algebra kids into a class that otherwise just had Pre-Algebra kids so the teacher could at least have time to teach each group?

[ChandlerMom]

I agree with the shame associated with excelling in our schools, but the tracking bit is faulty as others mentioned (and as I understand it to be done in other countries).

 

I think there is a problem with math educators barely knowing arithmetic, let alone any math that has been developed in the last 300 years. And more basically, I don't think most people really know what math IS. People confuse it with arithmetic, with maybe a little geometry and symbolic oddness thrown in to make it seem even LESS comprehensible and more foreign.

 

Sooooo, go look it up on wikipedia or the Oxford dictionary. That was our math lesson Friday. :D Actually, I think Monday we'll talk about what the other subjects *really* are as well. You know, what IS science? WHat IS social studies.

 

ETA: as to tracking...challenge is always to keep sufficient exposure and opportunity to change tracks. Kids that naturally think abstractly and intuitively excel early in math, but this doesn't mean they will be mathematicians. Most kids think more concretely, but some may really take off in math when their brains develop more abstract thinking (roughly 3rd grade, I recall). If they've been labeled as non-mathy, they may not ever TRY abstraction enough to find their inner mathematician. I would LOVE to see at least an experimentation with grouping kids based on learning styles and MBTI predispositions where they could be taught in their "native" manner while continuing to expose them to other methods (since ultimately we need to be able to learn thru different styles). But then, I guess that's exactly what I'm doing in my homechool. :lol:

Edited August 28, 2011 by ChandlerMom

[wapiti]

All I know is that the star athletes from my high school are working at Foot Locker and the "nerds" are heading up companies and working as professors...

 

LOL, I said something very similar to my kids the other day when they were asking about "nerds."

 

However, at 8 y.o., they're already concerned about appearing "nerdy." That's the excuse one of them gives for not wanting to wear his glasses.

[Maus]

One requirement for a country to participate in TIMSS is that each student has an (approximately) equal chance of taking the test; the only exceptions are those students in extremely remote communities.

 

http://nces.ed.gov/timss/faq.asp#7

There is a very interesting statement in the information at the link you provided: "8. Are schools and students required to participate in these assessments?

To our knowledge, few, if any, countries require all schools and students to participate in TIMSS. However, some countries give more prominence to these assessments than do others. In the United States, TIMSS is a voluntary assessment."

 

DH and I are curious. Is there a financial incentive to participate?

 

If not, why would any school that didn't believe its students were doing great in math and science ever volunteer?

 

And if only schools that think they are doing great participate, that might mean that the results may paint a better picture than what is really happening in our nation, and that would be very sad indeed, given our generally low scores. (Unless all nations are equally voluntary, in which case, it's sad, but accurate.)

Edited August 28, 2011 by Maus
Interrupted originally, so edited to complete my thought.

[kristinannie]

I think there's tracking and then there's tracking. I know I've heard of schools where if one was strong in math but weak in English but vice versa, one was required to be in either the top or lower track in both. That doesn't seem right at all.

 

But to just generally pretend everyone's the same and offer no differentiation doesn't seem right either. Trying to balance individual classes with the spectrum from high to low and differentiating each class seems inefficient. When I was in 8th, I was one of 5 kids who took Algebra. hey didn't even put us all in the same class - 2 in one, and 3 in the other. And then there were two different levels being taught in all of those - 8th Grade Math and Pre-Algebra. The teacher split his time between those two groups, and we Algebra kids were just given the book and had to teach ourselves. :001_huh: Wouldn't it have made more sense to have split the kids up between 8th Grade Math and Pre-Algebra, and/or mixed the Algebra kids into a class that otherwise just had Pre-Algebra kids so the teacher could at least have time to teach each group?

 

 

I was in Algebra in 7th grade (in a class of 8th graders). There were two of us that did that. They didn't know what to do with us for 8th grade so they just put us in a room and let us play computer games and called the class "gifted enrichment." :lol:

[nmoira]

 

If not, why would any school that didn't believe its students were doing great in math and science ever volunteer?

But as I understand it, refusals must taken into account in the sampling plan that must be submitted for approval to TIMSS before a country can participate (and the criteria for choosing a back-up school are strict). This is why TIMSS has fewer participating countries than some of the other internationally administered tests.

[jennynd]

that is SOOOO NOT TRUE.

 

I came from Taiwan and taiwan ranked 1st in last TIMSS in 8th grade and 3rd in 4th grade

There is NO tracking at 4th or 8th grade. We did the tracking at 2nd year in senior high (11th, 12th) for national entrance exam. which does seperate 4 different track and that was true that liberal art oriented kids don't do calculus. which make perfect sense.

 

But no, I was educated all the way through college in Taiwan, and there were NO tracking before 10th grade

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

There was no tracking when I went until one was in 7th. At that point I was aware of how it worked and spoke up if there were any issues. You are right though, parents were not as involved. It does stink they would make such a mistake. Then again, I don't feel like it determined the rest of my life. KWIM?

 

I agree that I still went on to go to college and have a successful career but I also came from a family that valued education and schooling. I can imagine that many, not all, kids placed into the wrong track would not fare so well especially when they do not have families who support education:(

[Spy Car]

Spycar, I do think you are right concerning the tests being fair. Americans need to focus on why we don't do well on the tests and not on saying that the tests are unfair. We don't prioritize math and science as a nation. Parents don't get all excited when kids work on a science fair project or compete in a math comptetition. But if your kid is the star of the football team..... All I know is that the star athletes from my high school are working at Foot Locker and the "nerds" are heading up companies and working as professors...

 

My ideal would be for a kid to be a star on the football team (or other) AND a scholar. Strong minds and strong bodies.

 

I'm with you in thinking the lack of respect given to academic excellence is a big problem in our society. I don't believe we should neglect physical education, as both are vital parts of the human experience.

 

Bill (former captain of the football team :D)

[regentrude]

I don't believe we should neglect physical education, as both are vital parts of the human experience.

 

Agreed - but there will be very few people who will make sports into their career vs many more who could make a career using math and science had they been properly taught. There is a larger job market for engineers than for football players.

[Spy Car]

Agreed - but there will be very few people who will make sports into their career vs many more who could make a career using math and science had they been properly taught. There is a larger job market for engineers than for football players.

 

True, but life is about more than getting a job.

 

No one needs to sell me on the value of a good academic education, including math and science, but developing athleticism in a child is a high goal for me as well.

 

Bill

[regentrude]

True, but life is about more than getting a job.

 

No one needs to sell me on the value of a good academic education, including math and science, but developing athleticism in a child is a high goal for me as well.

 

Bill

 

Yes, we value fitness too (we are rock climbers and mountaineers). Still, coming from a different culture, I shake my head when I see that the football coach has the highest salary in the university system ...

[Spy Car]

Yes, we value fitness too (we are rock climbers and mountaineers). Still, coming from a different culture, I shake my head when I see that the football coach has the highest salary in the university system ...

 

I think it is out-of-whack too.

 

Bill

[kristinannie]

I agree that we also should value athletic pursuits as well. I am just as proud of my son when he earns a new belt in karate (which he has to work very hard for) as I am when I see a lightbulb moment in a reading lesson. They are all important aspects in life. I also agree that getting a job isn't the end all be all in life. Obviously, my job is staying home and teaching my kids, but that doesn't make me any less valuable to society than a CEO of a major corporation. I think our society has gone wrong because we have latched onto the wrong kinds of heros. Sports figures, movie stars, rich white people with no skills other than being rich...kids don't know who to look up to. Kids are popular when they bully other kids or goof off in class. We see people who live moral Christian lives as boring or not interesting. This is one the main reasons that I am so happy that I can teach my kids at home and that they don't have to be socialized in school. I do hope all of my kids go to college and have fruitful lives, but I mostly want them to follow God's will in their lives and to end up in Heaven. Things of this world are fleeting.

[SnegurochkaL]

He has some things fundamentally wrong.

The tracking in Germany is NOT done sorting math/science people and humanities people. The tracking is done based on overall academic aptitude, and every student who ends up on the college preparation track must take math through calculus and three sciences and two foreign languages, along with history, German etc. The final exam, the Abitur, which is the ticket to attend college, contains a mandatory written mathematics exam that is open response (none of this multiple choice nonsense - they actually have to solve problems) which has to be taken by everybody who wishes to attend college.

the Abitur also mandates written testing in at least one science, Germ,an, one foreign language, as well as several oral exams.

 

So, while there definitely is tracking, it has nothing to do with being mathematically minded or not - if you want to major in English, you have to take, and pass exams, in calculus in high school as well.

 

 

 

We had a similar tracking system in Russia. Only students with grades A and B were allowed to attend high school, where A was 100% of comprehension and B was a little less. Grammar mistakes on a written math exam could bring your grade down. Once I forgot to put a period after writing my answer and received a lower grade. I was mad, but it taught me a lesson to pay attention to details.

Colleges are very specific, you could not change your major after 2 years of studies like you can do here.

 

The main difference in math education is that the high school math teachers have actually studied math and are proficient.

 

:iagree: My math teacher(middle school/high school) was fair, very demanding, but brilliant.

[Mabelen]

that is SOOOO NOT TRUE.

 

I came from Taiwan and taiwan ranked 1st in last TIMSS in 8th grade and 3rd in 4th grade

There is NO tracking at 4th or 8th grade. We did the tracking at 2nd year in senior high (11th, 12th) for national entrance exam. which does seperate 4 different track and that was true that liberal art oriented kids don't do calculus. which make perfect sense.

 

But no, I was educated all the way through college in Taiwan, and there were NO tracking before 10th grade

 

I studied in Spain and during my time kids were not tracked either until 11th grade. That was the point when you could decide to go towards humanities or math and science. Until then, everybody had to take the same subjects.

[Way2blessed]

The problem with math education is professors such as this. I have watched several other videos by this man years ago when I was fighting our school system's choice of the Connected Math curriculum. This professor was a supporter of constructivist math programs, such as Everyday Math and the lattice method of multiplication type things.

[rlugbill]

First of all, I think the guy on the video is on a little shaky ground because he doesn't back up his opinions with any facts.

 

Secondly, my concern is that if a teacher blames problems on the system, then he isn't taking responsibility for what he has control over- how he teaches the kids. If the problem is athletic scholarships and the dumb kids he has in his class, then there is nothing he can do to fix it, other than make a you tube video and hope that millions of people view it and decide to change the sytem.

 

That said, I agree very much with his "nerd" analysis. Doing well in school is not cool. We have an anti-intellectual culture in our schools, where athletics and cheerleading and proms and pep rallies are emphasized. It undermines the actual mission of the school, which should be academic.

 

I am not against physical education. But our sports programs are often not about physical education for the mass of students. They are about a few students being glorified for their physical prowess, while the others are mere spectators.

 

I am a former Olympic coach. I am in favor of sports. However, I am also familiar with the sports programs of many other countries. Most other countries do not have interscholastic sports. There are physical education classes in school, but school sports teams do not play against other schools. Competitive sports are mostly done through clubs, outside of school.

 

It completely changes the school atmosphere. School in most other countries isn't about football games and cheerleaders and cliques and proms and who is dating who, etc. School is for academics.

 

I spent a year teaching in Taiwan. I asked the students there if they made fun of "geeks" or "nerds". They didn't use such derogatory words for intelligent people. They said they respected intelligent people.

[kristinannie]

First of all, I think the guy on the video is on a little shaky ground because he doesn't back up his opinions with any facts.

 

Secondly, my concern is that if a teacher blames problems on the system, then he isn't taking responsibility for what he has control over- how he teaches the kids. If the problem is athletic scholarships and the dumb kids he has in his class, then there is nothing he can do to fix it, other than make a you tube video and hope that millions of people view it and decide to change the sytem.

 

That said, I agree very much with his "nerd" analysis. Doing well in school is not cool. We have an anti-intellectual culture in our schools, where athletics and cheerleading and proms and pep rallies are emphasized. It undermines the actual mission of the school, which should be academic.

 

I am not against physical education. But our sports programs are often not about physical education for the mass of students. They are about a few students being glorified for their physical prowess, while the others are mere spectators.

 

I am a former Olympic coach. I am in favor of sports. However, I am also familiar with the sports programs of many other countries. Most other countries do not have interscholastic sports. There are physical education classes in school, but school sports teams do not play against other schools. Competitive sports are mostly done through clubs, outside of school.

 

It completely changes the school atmosphere. School in most other countries isn't about football games and cheerleaders and cliques and proms and who is dating who, etc. School is for academics.

 

I spent a year teaching in Taiwan. I asked the students there if they made fun of "geeks" or "nerds". They didn't use such derogatory words for intelligent people. They said they respected intelligent people.

 

 

:iagree: wholeheartedly. Well said!!!! At this point, the only reason we would send our kids to PS for high school is to be able to play sports. I hate that they are tied into the schools like that!

[SoCal Sandra]

Have you read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell? Chapter 8 leads up to why Asians do so well in math, and the US doesn't do as well in math (Asian language that makes math easier at an early age & culture of working hard).

 

Gladwell emphasized the culture of working hard. The language issue was secondary. I remember his explanation that generations of people getting up at the crack of dawn to face a long day working in the rice fields produces the kind of discipline and work ethic that leads to success.

 

This is a curriculum forum, so I can see why posters are commenting on the language (and I agree--we started math with Right Start and still use it to supplement SM) but the connection of images that Gladwell created, in his masterful way, sticks in my mind. Hard work yields success.

[MIch elle]

The language issue was secondary.

 

 

I don't agree that language is secondary. Language is important. Re-read the section on math & Asian language: http://www.gladwell.com/outliers/outliers_excerpt3.html

Edited August 29, 2011 by MIch elle

[Spy Car]

Destroying High School sports is a very short-sighted and counter-productive way to "advance" education.

 

Sports are not the enemy of scholarship.

 

Bill

[Crimson Wife]

Sports are not the enemy of scholarship.

 

Bill

 

No, but a high school ought to be more than just an excuse to have a football team. I used to get so frustrated with people in our old town who were opposed to a proposed small STEM-focused charter high school solely because it wouldn't offer varsity sports. :banghead:

 

My dad ran Division 1 varsity track in college. My DH was QB on his prep school team until a knee injury ended his career his sophomore year. Sports are great- but they're not everything.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Destroying High School sports is a very short-sighted and counter-productive way to "advance" education.

 

Sports are not the enemy of scholarship.

 

Bill

 

I love sports and physical education. My problem is that some local schools spend several million dollars for a stadium and employees just for that stadium and then raise school taxes the maximum allowed every single year:glare: Don't get me wrong, I am in favor of reasonable taxes and am generally a liberal;) but in my area the schools waste a ton of money and play shenanigans with it as well:(.

 

ETA: I also think when school taxes are already high in some areas that perhaps football and whatnot should be converted to a little league type system that is separate from the schools and have low cost gym classes instead.

 

My 2 cents:)

[Spy Car]

No, but a high school ought to be more than just an excuse to have a football team. I used to get so frustrated with people in our old town who were opposed to a proposed small STEM-focused charter high school solely because it wouldn't offer varsity sports. :banghead:

 

My dad ran Division 1 varsity track in college. My DH was QB on his prep school team until a knee injury ended his career his sophomore year. Sports are great- but they're not everything.

 

Who said they were everything?

 

But they are not nothing. Destroying something valuable does not ipso facto lead to advancement of other goals.

 

Bill

[MBM]

Sports are good, but I think they get way too much recognition in schools. Why not have a pep rally for the other extracurriculars? One of our junior highs has a fabulous Science Olympiad program, and all participants are required to wear their medals the entire day shortly after state and national meets. I think that's cool.

 

I was extremely disappointed when I found out MIT's mascot is the beaver. Wouldn't the fighting amoebas be better? The name should be something more science-y.

[kristinannie]

I don't think we should kill high school sports, but as a homeschooler who is planning on homeschooling high school, I wish my kids could have an opportunity to play those sports. The high school is the only way around here (other than soccer and swimteam) to play those sports in that age group. Keeping my kids out of school (which academically and spiritually is for the best) means they can't play football or basketball or run track. I don't think that is fair.

[eloquacious]

I absolutely agree that sports are important, BUT I challenge the idea that they must be part of school culture. I ran track, cross country, and played basketball in 9th grade in the U.S. Then, when we returned to Germany the following year, I was shocked and a little saddened to discover that our school had no sports teams. I was forced to turn to local sports clubs, only to discover that precisely because there is no school sports culture, the local sports culture was that much more robust. More importantly, it doesn't end at graduation - it's a way for multiple generations to stay active and in shape, and to interact with each other.

 

Anywho.

 

Just a thought. I don't think it's really possible to change the system in the U.S., nor would most people want to - I'm merely pointing out that there are alternative ways of doing it, without schools having to provide for or fund sports teams.

[Spy Car]

I don't think we should kill high school sports, but as a homeschooler who is planning on homeschooling high school, I wish my kids could have an opportunity to play those sports. The high school is the only way around here (other than soccer and swimteam) to play those sports in that age group. Keeping my kids out of school (which academically and spiritually is for the best) means they can't play football or basketball or run track. I don't think that is fair.

 

It would be "fair" to dismantle High School sports programs because you have chosen to homeschool?

 

Bill

[Serenade]

 

I was extremely disappointed when I found out MIT's mascot is the beaver. Wouldn't the fighting amoebas be better? The name should be something more science-y.

 

This made me LOL. I would absolutely love to see the Fighting Amoebas. Amoebas are pretty scary, ya know. Just this afternoon my boys were having the amoebas run off with the frozen small pox germs. (Petri dish giant amoebas. I think the chicken pox was standing in for the small pox.)

 

Hah! I think I've decided what to use for my avatar. OK, carry on.

[Spy Car]

I was extremely disappointed when I found out MIT's mascot is the beaver. Wouldn't the fighting amoebas be better? The name should be something more science-y.

 

Caltech's mascot is also the Beavers. Both schools have a historic emphasis on Engineering and beavers are natural examples of wildlife "engineers."

 

Bill

[kristinannie]

It would be "fair" to dismantle High School sports programs because you have chosen to homeschool?

 

Bill

 

 

That isn't what I said. I just think that kids should have options. Homeschooled kids with good grades should be able to participate. I don't understand why sports are so linked to schools. If you are a really good player, but are in a school that has a terrible basketball team, it just doesn't seem right. I think they should be outside of the school system for a lot of different reasons. I don't think that will ever change, but that is how I think it should be. It is just my opinion.

[Crimson Wife]

Is anybody really calling for an end to high school athletics? I must've missed the post that said that.

 

I do, however, think that not all high schools need to have an athletics program. Opposing a STEM charter school on the grounds that it won't offer varsity sports seems completely asinine. Traditional "comprehensive" schools typically do a fine job at providing opportunities for athletic glory. Where they quite often fall short is providing high quality STEM classes. That's a niche that a small charter like the one proposed for our old town can fill.

[MBM]

Caltech's mascot is also the Beavers. Both schools have a historic emphasis on Engineering and beavers are natural examples of wildlife "engineers."

 

Bill

 

I didn't know what Caltech's mascot is, but I did know why MIT chose the Beavers. Still, they should have had more fun with it.

[Spy Car]

That isn't what I said. I just think that kids should have options. Homeschooled kids with good grades should be able to participate. I don't understand why sports are so linked to schools. If you are a really good player, but are in a school that has a terrible basketball team, it just doesn't seem right. I think they should be outside of the school system for a lot of different reasons. I don't think that will ever change, but that is how I think it should be. It is just my opinion.

 

There are an extensive number of basketball "club" leagues. From AAU, to the ARC league, to park leagues and many others (depending on ones locale).

 

My nephew is a basketball phenomenon and he is on teams in 3 different club leagues outside his High School team.

 

The same situation exists with soccer.

 

Were up up to me home-schooled kids would be able to play on teams at their local school.

 

There are practical problems to overcome involving academic eligibility (so "homeschooling" doesn't become a way for students who are not making grades to evade academic requirements) but the problem is not insurmountable.

 

Ending school teams would remove opportunities for many children to play team sports. I think that would be a crying shame.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

I didn't know what Caltech's mascot is, but I did know why MIT chose the Beavers. Still, they should have had more fun with it.

 

UC Santa Cruz has the "Banana Slugs" :D

 

Bill