Survivalists or Preppers- I have a question?

[Soror]

I try to do some preparing myself(buying things in bulk) slowly moving towards self-sustainability etc(buying meat rabbits, gardenning etc). However, I know someone much more into it than me. This person is evidently spending all their savings(or most of it) on MRE kind of things and such(and LOTS of guns and ammos- and various other off-grid items). I don't get it? What about just an economic collapse what is the plan to pay for the house? These people have a very large mortgage with many years on it. Is this common thought process in the survivalist world, admittedly I don't listen to the talkers in this arena. So, can someone clue me in, what are they prepping for- and is there not any thought about the very serious idea of paying for your property-

 

I was talking to dh about it and it seems more prudent to us to spend money on things to get a longer term investment and balancing that with what I know are actual needs. I know my van will not last forever(it is 10 y.o.) so we are saving for a replacement- that is an absolute whereas the other is imo speculation.

 

If you are into prepping and such how do you balance that? Keeping a head to what is actually happening now versus what might happen(of which there are different scenarios).

 

One more- for those of this persausion- what things do you see as crucial? We have a water filtration system bought and some food supplies, probably about 6 months if I stretched it. We have a generator- for short term converted to propane and a large tank to last a good while- gas heater for back-up. Although, with finishing our basement we could stand most temperatures down there as it is only open on one small side and the rest is entirely enclosed.

[Trish]

One more- for those of this persausion- what things do you see as crucial? We have a water filtration system bought and some food supplies, probably about 6 months if I stretched it. We have a generator- for short term converted to propane and a large tank to last a good while- gas heater for back-up. Although, with finishing our basement we could stand most temperatures down there as it is only open on one small side and the rest is entirely enclosed.

 

Well, regarding the earlier stuff you mentioned about "guns and ammo" -- eh, it depends on how big the collapse is. Are we looking at a Double Dip Recession? A Lengthy Depression? A Complete Meltdown? I would think the Ammo-buying people are concerned about the complete meltdown scenario, which is possible, I suppose, but VERY difficult to picture or anticipate. But, if the police aren't getting paid, I guess you can extrapolate the problem from there.

 

Personally I think we are looking at *at least* a Depression, if not something worse. But, I also have difficulty envisioning exactly what "worse" will end up looking like. I am just anti-gun in general. If it gets that bad, I will rely on God. (I mean, I do anyway, so why should that change?)

 

In a practical sense, a country with huge financial issues can certainly experience "rolling blackouts" and interruptions of key services. So the most important things to have would be a way to heat your house (wood-burning stove or fireplace with 'fireplace insert' & seasoned wood stockpiles where people can't steal it), source of water (local pond or spring with filtration ability? Rain barrel? off-grid Atmosheric water generator?) Water is very necessary, AND very tough to replace if you don't have an alternate system!

 

Seeds, gardening tools. Some backup food. (we do backup food anyway because we live in hurricane country) It's mostly just canned goods, though, not anything freeze-dried or MRE in nature.

 

Of the two, I would pray first and prep later. But yeah, if things get bad enough, a wood-burning stove will probably be more useful than a paid-off mortgage.

[Soror]

Personally I think we are looking at *at least* a Depression, if not something worse. But, I also have difficulty envisioning exactly what "worse" will end up looking like. I am just anti-gun in general. If it gets that bad, I will rely on God. (I mean, I do anyway, so why should that change?)

 

In a practical sense, a country with huge financial issues can certainly experience "rolling blackouts" and interruptions of key services. So the most important things to have would be a way to heat your house (wood-burning stove or fireplace with 'fireplace insert' & seasoned wood stockpiles where people can't steal it), source of water (local pond or spring with filtration ability? Rain barrel? off-grid Atmosheric water generator?) Water is very necessary, AND very tough to replace if you don't have an alternate system!

 

Seeds, gardening tools. Some backup food. (we do backup food anyway because we live in hurricane country) It's mostly just canned goods, though, not anything freeze-dried or MRE in nature.

 

Of the two, I would pray first and prep later. But yeah, if things get bad enough, a wood-burning stove will probably be more useful than a paid-off mortgage.

 

I'm not anti-gun, dh hunts, we are not however stockpiling semis- with 100s of rounds.

 

I don't understand why it is an either or- mortgage or gun. PUttinng all your money into supplies and none into savings seems to only prepare for the worse and not worry about the more likely to happen bad economy - that would likely precede any of the worst of it anyway. It doesn't seem logical to me.

 

We only have a small mortgage here and less than 5 yrs on it that I believe we could pay even just on minimum wage. I would love a spot where we could have more acreage and such but I cannot justify going into huge debt over it as that seems like the exact wrong thing to do to me.

[Rebecca VA]

The reason your friend has a large mortgage is because he expects inflation to go up. When that happens, his house payments will seem very small.

[amy g.]

I am prepping against inflation. It just makes sense for me to buy 50 lbs of sugar and coffee when the price is going up every week. We have no debt except our mortgage, but dh is not interested in paying it off early. Why pay it with dollars that are worth more now than they will be?

 

I have savings, but I plan on using it to buy building supplies and livestock feed and things I can imagine doubling in price.

 

My friend is prepping for the complete disintegration of society. She wants me to buy a manual pump for my well. I just can't imagine it getting to the point where I can't get electricity, but I can imagine my electric bill costing$1,500 each month.

 

I won't stock ammo because it goes bad eventually. I'll have to borrow some from my friend, if I ever need it.

[LittleIzumi]

We stock up on several months of the non-perishables we actually use, and we have supplies to purify water. We don't have money to really do more than that, besides how we already paid off as many things as possible, and identifying skills we could use in trade for things we don't have if crazy things happen.

[Skadi]

Rebecca hit the nail on the head about the mortgage. About guns and ammo, there are four things to consider:

 

1. Long before a Worse Case Scenario, it may become illegal to buy guns, so it's important to own them now so that they're grandfathered in.

 

2. Long before there are bans on certain kinds of guns (or all guns in general) ammunition will skyrocket in price and even if you have the money, there will probably be shortages. This has already begun to happen.

 

3. Guns almost never go down in value. I bought a SKS rifle for $100 around five years ago. Now the same rifle is $300. Historically, guns in America usually either maintain their value or they increase in value.

 

4. It doesn't matter how much food you store or survival skills you learn. If crime and/or rioting become a problem and your family is NOT armed, you will suffer exactly the same fate as your neighbor who never bothered to look into survivalism at all. Whether it be natural disaster (Katrina) or rioting (Greece or London), if you do not arm yourself, everything you have will be taken away from you. It's just a matter of time, and one can only hope that they only want your food and not your daughters.

[momofkhm]

I wouldn't really call us either survivalists, maybe just preppers.

 

The ones stockpiling guns and ammo are prepping for the sh*t to hit the fan as dh puts it. One of dh's friends is a survivalist (I would say) and he has everything at his house - guns, ammo, chickens, garden, access to water. The guns and ammo are for when there is nothing to be had the "zombies" come looking for food.

 

DH had sent me a forum post that someone wrote after Katrina and the lawlessness of what was going on down there - lack of police, how to protect your stuff, how to stay safe, etc. It's a lot more than just have food, water, shelter. I can't find it though. But I will say it was quite eye opening. And painted a scary picture.

 

Crucial - food, water and a way to protect yourself from others who will hear that you have stuff and come take it.

[OrganicAnn]

In the Great Depression, banks foreclosed on lots of mortgages. I guess even if you thought it would get that bad, would it get that bad that quickly? Would they be left without a house and needing a place to store all their MRE and guns?

[Soror]

So, what if inflation happens, how will that help you keep your house if you have no job? Especially if the mortgage is large enough you cannot pay it with any other job you could expect to get?

 

btw- as I said we are stocking some food and moving that way- We do have some guns and ammo, dh even has materials to make his own bullets.

[Laura Corin]

Whether it be natural disaster (Katrina) or rioting (Greece or London), if you do not arm yourself, everything you have will be taken away from you. It's just a matter of time, and one can only hope that they only want your food and not your daughters.

 

I think five people died in connection with the riots in the whole of the UK: one shot by police before they started, three run over with a car, and one other shot. Anyone who had property destroyed is entitled to compensation.

 

I have to feel that had a lot of the rioters had guns there would have been many more deaths. As much as some people like to feel that guns will be used for self-defence, when crazy moments happen and people are armed, then they will get crazy with their weapons. This obtains in cases of domestic rows as much as during civil disturbance.

 

I am not referring in this case to a situation of complete disorder - I don't personally see this as a likely scenario - just picking you up on the particular examples you used.

 

Laura

Edited August 23, 2011 by Laura Corin

[Onceuponatime]

In a practical sense, a country with huge financial issues can certainly experience "rolling blackouts" and interruptions of key services. So the most important things to have would be a way to heat your house (wood-burning stove or fireplace with 'fireplace insert' & seasoned wood stockpiles where people can't steal it), source of water (local pond or spring with filtration ability? Rain barrel? off-grid Atmosheric water generator?) Water is very necessary, AND very tough to replace if you don't have an alternate system!

 

Seeds, gardening tools. Some backup food. (we do backup food anyway because we live in hurricane country) It's mostly just canned goods, though, not anything freeze-dried or MRE in nature.

 

Of the two, I would pray first and prep later. But yeah, if things get bad enough, a wood-burning stove will probably be more useful than a paid-off mortgage.

 

We are putting in a wood burning stove at this very moment. It just makes sense to us. I really want rain barrels and and safe water storage, other than that I'm not terribly concerned. Our mortgage is pretty low because we bought just before the boom. We have a garden and plant a new fruit tree every year. These things will be useful whether or not there are any "events."

[Mama Geek]

So, what if inflation happens, how will that help you keep your house if you have no job? Especially if the mortgage is large enough you cannot pay it with any other job you could expect to get?

 

 

I think they assume there will be jobs and pay will go up. Stagflation is where the inflation rate is high and income from jobs is low.

[Mama Geek]

 

I have to feel that had a lot of the rioters had guns there would have been many more deaths. As much as some people like to feel that guns will be used for self-defence, when crazy moments happen and people are armed, then they will get crazy with their weapons. This obtains in cases of domestic rows as much as during civil disturbance.

 

Laura

 

I tend to see things a little differently. People with values will still have values when times are bad. That is not to say that someone wouldn't steal a loaf of bread to feed their family, but to go out and destroy things or harm others unless in self defense isn't real likely. It is the people without values to be concerned about.

 

In discussing New Orleans during and after Katrina, there was a huge amount of corruption in that area. The crime rates were high and New Orleans was known as sin city. In reading about some of the refugees in Texas after it happened it took police awhile to get rid of the people causing problems so their crime rates went up for awhile.

 

I am not stockpiling lots of guns and ammo and I have no problems with guns being legal. I think it is a good thing.

[tristangrace]

So, the folks with hundreds of rounds of ammo are seriously preparing themselves to kill hundreds of people? Aside from the moral ramifications, that's just . . . ew. Are these people also digging mass graves now, so they have some place to sling all their corpses?

[Rebecca VA]

Sigh...can we ignore the trollish post and keep the thread interesting and informative?

[Soror]

Why would we assume that salaries go up such high unemployment? How would a wood stove help if you lose your house? For those with smaller obligations even if salaries went up they would be better able to buy whatever else they need. Having a big mortgage seems to be a huge gamble, as does entirely draining your savings.

 

We're trying to prep for both scenarios, keeping our obligations low and also being more sustainable.

 

Also, on the ammo, as I said we do have some. There will always come a point where someone might have more than you.

[Soror]

eta- I just noticed that one of my posts had an angry face- that was entirely accidental and I didn't intend anger with anything said...

[tristangrace]

Not a troll--I am seriously interested in the mindset and plans of folks who are stockpiling guns and ammo. Are these people thinking things out realistically, or it a sort of fantasy game they are playing in their minds to increase feelings of control in an uncertain world?

 

It may be a bit off-topic, but I would surely appreciate the information.

[Soror]

Short answer is to my understanding is that they plan to do whatever necessary to guard families and stockpiles, if that means they have to go through that ammo to kill off would be attackers or raiders then so be it.

[livingnlearning]

:confused: Our ammo supplies are for hunting! LOL And our self-defense ammo/gun is against grizzly bears, primarily, but it would certainly work on a person if necessary.

 

I am only one generation away from people that bought most of their supplies twice a year. We strive to be that self-sufficient b/c we don't like to be dependent on a system that is obviously flawed and unreliable. Food prices are already going sky high but we make/supply much of our own food. We have a well and a little gadget that makes it so we can access it without power, we have a wood stove, we have horses and can use them for transportation or hauling if necessary. If the power goes out or we get snowed in or TSHTF we have the resources in place to dig deep and get by... anything much more than that seems excessive to me.

 

We learned from the folks that were poor without electricity or much of anything 100 years ago or so... it's really not difficult to have the base supplies and methods of food/water/heat/shelter and build from there.

[livingnlearning]

So, the folks with hundreds of rounds of ammo are seriously preparing themselves to kill hundreds of people? Aside from the moral ramifications, that's just . . . ew. Are these people also digging mass graves now, so they have some place to sling all their corpses?

 

I'll give you another real answer despite your tone here:

 

Ammo could also be used as a form of currency if things get really wonky.

[Laura Corin]

I tend to see things a little differently. People with values will still have values when times are bad. That is not to say that someone wouldn't steal a loaf of bread to feed their family, but to go out and destroy things or harm others unless in self defense isn't real likely. It is the people without values to be concerned about.

 

 

... that only the people with decent values will buy guns, or that their guns will never be stolen or turned against them. I think that those who see guns as a protection imagine ideal circumstances: knowing that an assailant is coming, having time to prepare, not being asleep or ill or distracted when an assault happened. If the situation is not idea, then you have a gun (maybe your gun) in someone else's hands.

 

To widen the issue a little - my mention of domestic rows covers everyone: people with values have moments of extreme rage just like the rest of us.

 

Laura

[Mama Geek]

... that only the people with decent values will buy guns, or that their guns will never be stolen or turned against them. I think that those who see guns as a protection imagine ideal circumstances: knowing that an assailant is coming, having time to prepare, not being asleep or ill or distracted when an assault happened. If the situation is not idea, then you have a gun (maybe your gun) in someone else's hands.

 

I think if you look into it you will find a lot of people are successful in self defense. Ideal circumstances would be not to be assaulted.q`

 

[/quote=Laura Corin;3071316]...To widen the issue a little - my mention of domestic rows covers everyone: people with values have moments of extreme rage just like the rest of us.

 

Laura

 

The people involved in domestic violence and guns are still a small percentage of the population overall. Not everybody has this extreme rage. Maybe if I saw some guy attack my dd I would consider it extreme rage.

 

There have been a lot of crimes stopped by people who legally own guns. In high crime cities, the criminals know which neighborhoods to stay out of. I've lived and worked in areas like that.

Edited August 23, 2011 by Mama Geek

[Trish]

4. It doesn't matter how much food you store or survival skills you learn. If crime and/or rioting become a problem and your family is NOT armed, you will suffer exactly the same fate as your neighbor who never bothered to look into survivalism at all. Whether it be natural disaster (Katrina) or rioting (Greece or London), if you do not arm yourself, everything you have will be taken away from you. It's just a matter of time, and one can only hope that they only want your food and not your daughters.

 

A couple things I would say about that. We don't *look* any more prepared than anyone else. So I wouldn't say we'd be any more obvious a target than anyone else in the neighborhood. I would imagine most urbanites/suburbanites have maybe a couple weeks of food, max? Why would a gun-toting person figure there'd be any point to raiding suburbia? Better off raiding a farm, or at least someone who looks like a prepper.

 

Secondly, even if your family IS armed with a gun or two, that in fact may signal to the well-armed roving gang that you DO have something worth protecting. Like stores of food or whatever. And can a couple of armed people hold off a determined gang? Doubtful. Basically they can burn down your house if they want.

 

But, guns are useful for those who hunt, so it makes sense to have them for that purpose.

 

I will still choose God over guns, when it comes to self-protection. That may be naive but I'm sticking with it.

 

Another thing for your average person to consider: what are the things from the store that you feel you can't do without? Medicines, drugstore items, etc. Get those.

[Mama Geek]

Why would we assume that salaries go up such high unemployment? How would a wood stove help if you lose your house? For those with smaller obligations even if salaries went up they would be better able to buy whatever else they need. Having a big mortgage seems to be a huge gamble, as does entirely draining your savings.

 

We're trying to prep for both scenarios, keeping our obligations low and also being more sustainable.

 

Also, on the ammo, as I said we do have some. There will always come a point where someone might have more than you.

 

I am not someone betting on solely inflation, but in the 70's my IL's took that gamble on property and it paid off.

 

We are trying to be balanced and have some things invested for inflation, some for deflation and some for if the SHTF. We also have no debt. We have a variety of stocks in different sectors that will do well in different outcomes of the economy. We have no debt (that and the cash we have will really hurt us if we do see nothing other than inflation.)

 

The funny thing is shortly after we paid off our mortgage, I made a comment to my FIL about never going into debt for another house again and he thought I was nuts and he is fairly financially conservative.

[Mama Geek]

A couple things I would say about that. We don't *look* any more prepared than anyone else. So I wouldn't say we'd be any more obvious a target than anyone else in the neighborhood. I would imagine most urbanites/suburbanites have maybe a couple weeks of food, max? Why would a gun-toting person figure there'd be any point to raiding suburbia? Better off raiding a farm, or at least someone who looks like a prepper.

 

Secondly, even if your family IS armed with a gun or two, that in fact may signal to the well-armed roving gang that you DO have something worth protecting. Like stores of food or whatever. And can a couple of armed people hold off a determined gang? Doubtful. Basically they can burn down your house if they want.

 

But, guns are useful for those who hunt, so it makes sense to have them for that purpose.

 

I will still choose God over guns, when it comes to self-protection. That may be naive but I'm sticking with it.

 

Another thing for your average person to consider: what are the things from the store that you feel you can't do without? Medicines, drugstore items, etc. Get those.

 

I don't think this is an either or situation. I also think those living in the country will have a much better chance of survival than those living in the city if things really get bad.

[Rivka]

Honestly, I think that a lot of survivalism is just fantasy.

 

People fantasize about the awful things Those Other People would do to them if they had a chance. They fantasize about how capable and self-reliant they could be if given the opportunity. They fantasize about what they think humans would be like if stripped of the trappings of civilization. They fantasize about events in the world falling out in such a way that it validates their personal political and economic beliefs. They fantasize about how they could provide for all their own needs in isolation from others. They fantasize about how powerful their guns make them.

 

Sometimes the rhetoric sounds really compelling, until you start poking too closely at the ideas and assumptions. I just don't expect it to make all that much logical sense. It's fantasy.

[Heidi]

I think paying off a mortgage is pretty important as well. It is one step closer to being self-reliant should anything *bad* happen. In what order you do things is up to the individual and how you prioritize.

[Heidi]

Honestly, I think that a lot of survivalism is just fantasy.

 

People fantasize about the awful things Those Other People would do to them if they had a chance. They fantasize about how capable and self-reliant they could be if given the opportunity. They fantasize about what they think humans would be like if stripped of the trappings of civilization. They fantasize about events in the world falling out in such a way that it validates their personal political and economic beliefs. They fantasize about how they could provide for all their own needs in isolation from others. They fantasize about how powerful their guns make them.

 

Sometimes the rhetoric sounds really compelling, until you start poking too closely at the ideas and assumptions. I just don't expect it to make all that much logical sense. It's fantasy.

 

You don't think we'll ever need to be in survival mode? Like another depression? That's interesting.

 

I think that it is healthy to fantasize about the "what ifs" and be prepared for them. Everything in prudence though ;) I believe hard times are coming.

[Trish]

I don't think this is an either or situation. I also think those living in the country will have a much better chance of survival than those living in the city if things really get bad.

 

Yes, I agree with that too. I have a pepper spray (woo-hoo!). But I think guns make more sense for people who have a background/familiarity with them. My family most assuredly does not.

 

If the electricity, or system of distribution were to go down (something very possible in case of a financial meltdown), it wouldn't take long for things to get dicey in the cities. What is the saying, we are about 9 missed meals away from a societal breakdown?

 

I can't even honestly say whether it would be better to be around people or not. If you're out in the country, you're fine if no one finds you or bothers you. But you're also very, very alone if they DO.

 

And the situation will probably evolve in completely unexpected ways. It's disheartening to think just HOW self-sufficient we are NOT, as a nation. We should've worked much harder at off-grid/green solutions before now.

 

And even people who think they can always hunt, well, it won't take long for the woods to get over-hunted! And streams over-fished. Etc.

[Rivka]

You don't think we'll ever need to be in survival mode? Like another depression? That's interesting.

 

I think that it is healthy to fantasize about the "what ifs" and be prepared for them. Everything in prudence though ;) I believe hard times are coming.

 

I think that preparing for economic hard times and natural disasters makes sense. But I don't think that civil society will fall apart, and I think that survivalists vastly overestimate their ability to get by if it does.

[RahRah]

I'm not sure I'd label us "preppers" or "survivalists" - but I lived less than a mile from the pentagon on 9/11, and DH lived maybe 3-miles from the pentagon....since then, we both like to have food, water and other things on hand, just in case.

[Heidi]

I think that preparing for economic hard times and natural disasters makes sense. But I don't think that civil society will fall apart, and I think that survivalists vastly overestimate their ability to get by if it does.

 

Yes, most likely that is true.

[jubilation]

Has anyone here read Depletion and Abundance by Sharon Astyk? I read it a couple years ago and found it interesting. I don't know if I'd call her a survivalist, but she advocates having 6 months of food/water/supplies, just in case of natural or financial disasters. She keeps careful tabs on what she has, and rotates through everything so that nothing gets wasted.

 

Personally, I'm not organized enough for THAT much food storage, but I do like to keep at least 1 month or so of non-perishable food in the house. We've been stuck in the house for a week or more in the past, as we live in a hilly rural area, and our road is always the last one to get plowed in the winter.

 

I agree that harder times are coming, and I definitely expect a pay cut at my job in the next couple years (I work in healthcare- healthcare reform- enough said ;)).

Edited August 23, 2011 by jubilation
spelling

[jubilation]

I think that preparing for economic hard times and natural disasters makes sense. But I don't think that civil society will fall apart, and I think that survivalists vastly overestimate their ability to get by if it does.

 

:iagree: Being (reasonably) prepared is a good thing, but it's certainly not a guarantee. My husband owns several hunting rifles (passed down from relatives), and we live in an area with plentiful deer, but in a worst-case scenario, I would expect all those deer to disappear pretty fast.

[livingnlearning]

Where I live I wouldn't worry at all about the game being depleted any time soon. Unless there was some sort of natural disaster that killed it off. Like Yellowstone finally blowing.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong at all about thinking about what you need and how you can provide it for yourself. As long as you aren't doing it to the detriment of your current situation, what harm? I'd rather be someone that thought about it than someone who did not. And in an emergency, the better prepared you and your neighbor is the better off everyone would be. And the guy that knows how to build a water filter out of an old sock and some sand might be pretty popular! :D If "civilized" or modern-day society gets knocked on its tail I can see things getting worse before they get better, though I would see them getting better.

[tristangrace]

Thanks much to those who answered my questions. I did not intend to take a "tone"--though in retrospect I realize the phrase "those people" could be off-putting.

 

I live in a densely-populated part of Chicago where there are several shootings every year, and when I hear about citizens collecting semi-automatic weapons and hundreds of rounds of ammo, I do NOT think in terms of hunting animals for food or of using ammo as currency, so I consider myself better informed now. :)

 

The idea that folks are doing this to hunt animals for food (rather than killing off neighbors) is reassuring, but I still have major qualms about the morality of using ammo as currency in a situation where things have gone all lord of the flies . . . .

[twoforjoy]

Honestly, I think that a lot of survivalism is just fantasy.

 

People fantasize about the awful things Those Other People would do to them if they had a chance. They fantasize about how capable and self-reliant they could be if given the opportunity. They fantasize about what they think humans would be like if stripped of the trappings of civilization. They fantasize about events in the world falling out in such a way that it validates their personal political and economic beliefs. They fantasize about how they could provide for all their own needs in isolation from others. They fantasize about how powerful their guns make them.

 

Sometimes the rhetoric sounds really compelling, until you start poking too closely at the ideas and assumptions. I just don't expect it to make all that much logical sense. It's fantasy.

 

:iagree:

 

I'm personally not aware of any natural or man-made disasters that have occurred where people who have stockpiled tons of weaponry and canned food have ended up just fine while those who didn't had their daughters dragged off and ended up dead.

 

I tend to think that, in the case of a really serious disaster, if it turned into an every-person-for-him-or-herself scenario, we're all screwed. Your ammo and canned foods might keep you alive an extra few weeks or months--maybe--but in the end it's over for everybody. The only way we'd survive is if people came together to help each other and were willing to trust each other, pool resources, and rebuild community.

 

I keep seeing the Depression used as an example, but I don't know anybody who talks about how they got through the Depression by shooting neighbors who came by looking for food. Everybody I know who lived through the Depression talks about how people came together and helped each other. If you needed something, and somebody else had enough to spare, they shared. When you had enough to spare, you shared. That's how we survive disasters, not by taking a "looking out for me and mine" mentality.

 

Which is to say, I think stockpiling canned goods is fine, but not with the mindset that you'd be shooting anybody who came by looking for food.

Edited August 23, 2011 by twoforjoy

[Denise in Florida]

Not a troll--I am seriously interested in the mindset and plans of folks who are stockpiling guns and ammo. Are these people thinking things out realistically, or it a sort of fantasy game they are playing in their minds to increase feelings of control in an uncertain world?

 

It may be a bit off-topic, but I would surely appreciate the information.

 

Answer as I understand it. If you are prepared for a disaster, i.e., food, water, fuel etc and an actual disaster occurs (natural or economic) you might assume that there are unprepared people willing to take your food from you. I don't think they are planning for a full scale assault/war, just have a gun and ammunition so that looters will look elsewhere for easier targets. I don't think anyone wants to kill masses of their neighbors.

 

Many many preppers are just regular people who believe that they need to be able to look after themselves and their families. SOME particularly vocal preppers have allowed fear to take over there lives. These are not the majority. Many, many real neat people are trying to get off the grid, live locally and become self suffiecent.

 

Does this help?

[Susan in TN]

I am more fascinated about this topic than I am really concerned. I have some portable "emergency" bags and water in the pantry - essentially 2-3 days worth of food and water with some basic first aid and personal supplies. Enough to get us out of the area, or to supply us if we need to seal ourselves in.

 

Personally, I'd like to have a couple guns in store and have everyone trained to use them. Don't have them yet.

 

Worst case scenario, we take our camping gear and go live out in the country with my brother and SIL who have a bit of property and an organic garden out in the middle of nowhere.

[1Togo]

What is the gadget to access the well with no power?

[twoforjoy]

Maybe this is an incredibly stupid question, but why does living in a remote area in case of a disaster seem like the best option?

 

I live in a city, and I feel like we'd be in good shape here should there be some sort of large-scale disaster. There's a lot of people here, so there'd be a lot of hands to get on with rebuilding. There'd be access to things we might need, and people around with knowledge we might need. I don't know, in case of a serious, worst-case-scenario disaster, I'd probably want to be where the people are, to help and be helped, than to go away from there.

[livingnlearning]

What is the gadget to access the well with no power?

 

It's a little goofy thing that my husband made, modeled after a gadget that my MIL got in the 70's. All I remember about it is that it's small and round and in the cellar... I'll get more details. :)

[livingnlearning]

Maybe this is an incredibly stupid question, but why does living in a remote area in case of a disaster seem like the best option?

 

I live in a city, and I feel like we'd be in good shape here should there be some sort of large-scale disaster. There's a lot of people here, so there'd be a lot of hands to get on with rebuilding. There'd be access to things we might need, and people around with knowledge we might need. I don't know, in case of a serious, worst-case-scenario disaster, I'd probably want to be where the people are, to help and be helped, than to go away from there.

 

Oh gads I'd so much rather be here surrounded by farmers and ranchers and people with their own gardens and chickens and experience in living in the country. Most of my inlaws and neighbors have machinery and equipment that are now antiques decorating their yards/kitchens but could easily be put back to work. And they know how to use them; know how to work together. They have large stores of food and fuel b/c we live so far from town, we don't just go to the store for things. If our power went out now for a month we would be fine except for the computer withdrawals.

 

Remember Katrina? Not everyone got what they needed then...

[KatA]

As far as stockpiling ammos and guns, I see it as: if something catastrophic happens, we may not need the guns and ammo to "shoot people" and fill up the mass grave in our backyard, but it might be useful for bartership. How valuable would something like that be if crap hit the fan, factories closed and the economy collapsed. Just a worse case scenario, we don't have stockpiles of ammo, but it's something we've talked about.

[Soror]

I think there does seem a bit of fantasy or hope for the worst from some, which is why I don't listen to the big talkers about such things. I do also think that there can be denial and such on the other side as well.

 

Growing up fundemental Baptist it reminds me a lot of the rapture talk. At least every few years someone was coming out to say that it God was coming, that day would come and go and that would be that. It's not much different in the 'fundy' survivalist camp- there is always someone else saying- the end of the world is coming--- y2k for example, last year or the year before there was big talk about 'peak oil' when gas was high, then just this month I heard talk that it was going to be on the debt ceiling day and then before then a few other days that our economy was supposed to entirely collapse right then.

 

I do feel it prudent though to be prepared for the what-ifs in some way. We had an ice storm a few years back and were out of power for 5 days some people not even an hr south were without power for weeks. But we also have definite things to prepare for, like replacing an aging vehicle at some point. Dh and I had thought about buying some larger property so we could build a more self-sufficient place(which be easier in ways than retrofitting various things around here) but we also feel it very unwise to take on debt. We also struggle with the idea that we've put in a lot of work here, do we continue to work here and take full advantage of the property we have? Do we try to aggressively act on another property where we'd pretty much have to start over on some things? How much to save in case of short term problems such as layoffs and such? How much to put towards reliability self-sustaining measures?

 

As Rivka also said I know we're woefully far from being entirely self-sufficient and sometimes it feels like what's the point.

[Stratford]

Maybe this is an incredibly stupid question, but why does living in a remote area in case of a disaster seem like the best option?

 

I live in a city, and I feel like we'd be in good shape here should there be some sort of large-scale disaster. There's a lot of people here, so there'd be a lot of hands to get on with rebuilding. There'd be access to things we might need, and people around with knowledge we might need. I don't know, in case of a serious, worst-case-scenario disaster, I'd probably want to be where the people are, to help and be helped, than to go away from there.

 

There would probably be a scarcity of food in a city if the supply chain was disrupted, and most food isn't grown/produced in a city. I think people who go head off into a remote area are more likely to have the basics for growing/producing their own food. When I think of a city in that kind of situation, I would picture a lot of problems with sanitation/disease/crime. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud with my fingers. :tongue_smilie:

 

We do keep food/water on hand in case of an emergency, between 3-6 months worth of food, and about 2 weeks of water, and a few other necessary items. We also have backpacks with 3 days of stuff in them in case we would have to evacuate. Our arsenal is pretty empty - no guns or anything. I try not to let fear guide my decisions. However, the thought of something happening (bad weather, society breakdown, who knows what) and not being able to feed my kids worries me. That's why we keep stuff on hand. Worst case scenario, I would rather have the food on hand to share with my neighbors and hope for the best.

[Denise in Florida]

Food as an investment. I have a very self-suffiecent friend (not completely off the grid), she plans ahead and lives a very frugal lifestyle. Recently she has shifted her 'investments' to food, as she explained the inflaction rate on some commodities is nearly 40%, she can't get that kind of rate of return anywhere else. It makes more sense to stockup on staples that will be 40% more expensive next year than it does to pay down a 6% mortgage.

 

I am not in that kind of position. We are trying to keep our house and cars in good repair (can't replace) and work on outstanding credit card debt (two layoffs, part time employment, underemployment). In the meantime I am working on frugal skills, cooking, gardening, raising chickens. I want to add canning, food drying and basic plumbing to my skill set. :auto:

[Jryanbass]

Maybe this is an incredibly stupid question, but why does living in a remote area in case of a disaster seem like the best option?

 

I live in a city, and I feel like we'd be in good shape here should there be some sort of large-scale disaster. There's a lot of people here, so there'd be a lot of hands to get on with rebuilding. There'd be access to things we might need, and people around with knowledge we might need. I don't know, in case of a serious, worst-case-scenario disaster, I'd probably want to be where the people are, to help and be helped, than to go away from there.

 

Because in the city, the food chain is more likely to be disrupted. In rural areas, people work with their hands more. There are lakes for fishing, land to hunt for food. You can't do that in the city. Plus, in the city you have to worry about riots and roving gangs more than in the rural areas, where "most of the time" its the good guys with the guns. And that is just a TOTAL generalization.