S/O any witches here

[sassyscrapperinid]

Hi-

I have a question for the pagans here- I had been a christian all my life and my husband and I were raising our children LDS. I have had a change come about inside me about a year ago and right now, no longer identify myself as LDS or christian. The question I have is that my younger children will talk about Jesus and other religious things of a christian nature. For example, today specifically, I was taking them to see the new Winnie the Pooh and they started talking about Christmas and Easter. They began asking me questions. I really had a hard time answering them. I ended up saying well LDS people believe this.... and some christians believe this.... Instead of making a statement of fact the way I would have before, I put it out there as information that they could take and believe what they want. I want them to believe what they want, but I feel that they are not learning about anything other than some christian and mostly LDS beliefs. DH and I havent talked about exposing them to any pagan beliefs and ofcourse I wouldnt do it without discussing it with him. I hardly feel qualified to teach them a thing as I am barely learning myself. Any advice? My husband still considers himself LDS- although has only attended church maybe 3-5 times in the last year and a half- and he knows what I am going through. Surprisingly, it hasnt affected our relationship yet. My two older daughters have an interest in wicca/witchcraft that I did not provoke, but I have encouraged them to study and learn for themselves what they believe. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

[GTJo1996]

I can imagine a lot of people will stay away from this discussion, but I will dive in! Let me say I am a Christian and I believe in God and Jesus and heaven. BUT I am in that phase of life where I am asking WHY do I believe what I believe. Is it just b/c it's what my parents taught me to believe, or is it really what I believe as a religious conviction? And I too struggle with what to teach my kids when they ask about other religious practices. I mean do we say, "That's just what those whacky (insert religion here) believe! Isn't that crazy?"

 

It seems to me that some Christian churches teach "It's our way or the highway". I believe there is too much similarity between many religions to honestly think that only ONE of them is correct and ONLY their believers are headed to heaven. I mean seriously, imagine for example that the only correct believers are the Methodists. Do they stand inside the pearly gates thinking, "Look at those poor Episcopal and Baptist folks. Too bad they didn't come to OUR church."

 

I think it is healthy to explore other religions and research how they started and how the religion overlaps with other religions. I also believe that as we get older, we quit "trying on" different religions and just believe what we find to be the most truthful. My mom prays everyday for my cousin who moved to California and became a Wiccan. And I keep telling her to stop worrying about my cousin's salvation and let her figure it out! Sometime around age 40 she will settle down and find HER right fit.

 

So I say, let the kids explore and encourage them to find their own way. And admit that even adults don't have all the answers about religion. After all, the definition of faith is believing in that which we cannot see or feel or understand.

[sassyscrapperinid]

Thanks GTJo1996 for your reply! I appreciate it! :001_smile:

[Chris in VA]

Not sure how to word this--

I have heard of some research re: parents who do not teach one way in the religion dept. This is common when there's two or more sets of religious beliefs in the family, and the parents say, we will teach both and let the kid decide--when one isn't chosen as the "base" religion, the research says that those kids tend to not choose ANY faith as adults.

 

I can't tell you where I heard this, it's just in my mental file--so take it with a grain of salt, as the file is gettin' a little old...:D

 

It does not mean that exposing kids to information about lots of faiths will lead to them not choosing to believe.

[Rosie_0801]

This is a good volume to begin with. There are study questions that might give direction to conversations. They would be good to work through with your hubby, if he is agreeable, to help you both work out what you are and aren't comfortable with sharing with your kids.

 

As for your daughters' interest in Wicca, speaking on my own behalf, definitely not on behalf of any other pagan around, I wouldn't go to any effort to feed it. I think sometimes parents can overthink spiritual issues in these sorts of circumstances. Instead, I would ask them to share their reading with you. Depending on the age, I might request they run it by me before they read. Most pagans believe we each have our own path to follow, so if your girls were really drawn to Wicca, they'd make the effort to research. If their Mamma is drawn to learning about it in case her kids ask, that's her own business. ;)

 

It's not unheard of for couples of different religions to have absolutely no marital problems over it. :) The meta-beliefs are more telling, I think. Mine and dh's strongest beliefs are that everyone has their own path to follow, and everyone should be polite about it.

 

Rosie

Edited July 18, 2011 by Rosie_0801

[msk]

I'm no expert (I'm not a pagan and my kids are still little), but I have been thinking about the "family of different faiths" issue. Although my husband and I are not religious, family members (and friends) are of various religions, and I don't want my kids to be worried about being "different" from their cousins.

 

I sometimes read "religions of the world" type books with my 5yo. Most modern ones tend to be written in the "some Christians believe X" tone you're talking about and not in a way that implies any of the statements are facts, so they'd give you a model for how to discuss things in language that doesn't favor one set of beliefs. I've been trying to casually say "Jewish like so-and-so" or "Catholic like so-and-so" as we read so she realizes she knows people who believe many of these different things, and her dad and I don't think any of them are strange or wrong. Maybe talking about your own changing beliefs in the context of learning about world religions in general would feel less awkward to you (and less threatening to other family members, if you have family that will get uptight about it).

 

I know several families in which the two parents' religions are different. As Rosie said, they make the things the two faiths have in common the important points for their families, and try to de-emphasize the differences. Obviously this means making some compromises over specifics, but it works as long as everyone is willing.

[kubiac]

I'm an atheist but just want to weigh in with the thought that I'm not sure "pagan" or "wiccan" is the opposite or antithesis of "Christian." There are a lot of boring ol' nonbelievers out there.

 

And I'll second those who suggest either (a) a comparative religions approach to studying faith, or (b) a broad study of critical thinking, the scientific method and the intellectual history of the Enlightenment as way of exploring how people of the past have grappled with their own questions about religion.

 

Good luck to you on your journey!

[Peela]

It is quite possible to bring up emotionally balanced kids whose parents have not directly taught them any set of spiritual beliefs at all. Of course, the kids will pick up whatever values the parents the values live by anyway, but a religion is not actually necessary. Truth is truth, and healthy values of love and kindness stand alone free of religion.

Dh and I are very spiritual but do not subscribe to any particular religion and have different beliefs ourselves.

Living in such a "religious" culture as most Americans seem to...it must seem very way out not to teach Christianity or at least SOME religion to your kids, but its not so weird, really.

 

In the end, I just try to be really honest with my kids and its never been a problem. I will say what i think and what I believe, and why, when it comes up, but thats very different from telling them a set of beliefs and mythologies as if they are fact and putting fear into them as a motivation for believing them.(i.e. the fear of going to hell if one does not take on those beliefs.) I do not teach my kids we belong to the special people who are saved because of what we believe.

 

I let them ask, I answer as honestly as I can, and I leave it to them. My kids are deep thinkers and are finding their own way. I am personally grateful to my parents for not pushing religion onto me strongly (one athiest scientist parent and one very mild Christian who never went to church and later gave up Christianity too). It left me space to find my own way without having to undo a whole lot of beliefs (beliefs most people are usually fed during childhood and never question their whole lives).

[Cassy]

During the past couple of years I have been moving more in the direction of a nature-based spirituality, but this is not something I share with my DC to any great extent, although I wouldn't hide it from them either. In truth, my tendency has always been towards a 'pagan' type religion, although I went to Methodist and Church of England churches as a child.

 

My children also go to church every Sunday with their father, which is considered quite devout in the UK, where only a third of the population ever go to Church. I feel that spirituality is very important, and also that culturally Christianity is important. However, I would not be at all unhappy if at some point any of my children rejected Christianity. We also explore the other religions common in our culture - we have Jewish, Muslim and Buddhist friends, so we have lots of lively discussion with regards to different beliefs and traditions. Given that, for me, my spirituality is such a fundamental part of who I am, I believe it is crucial to ensure that our children are fully informed about what it is they are committing to or rejecting.

 

Cassy

[asta]

It is quite possible to bring up emotionally balanced kids whose parents have not directly taught them any set of spiritual beliefs at all. Of course, the kids will pick up whatever values the parents the values live by anyway, but a religion is not actually necessary. Truth is truth, and healthy values of love and kindness stand alone free of religion.

Dh and I are very spiritual but do not subscribe to any particular religion and have different beliefs ourselves.

Living in such a "religious" culture as most Americans seem to...it must seem very way out not to teach Christianity or at least SOME religion to your kids, but its not so weird, really.

 

In the end, I just try to be really honest with my kids and its never been a problem. I will say what i think and what I believe, and why, when it comes up, but thats very different from telling them a set of beliefs and mythologies as if they are fact and putting fear into them as a motivation for believing them.(i.e. the fear of going to hell if one does not take on those beliefs.) I do not teach my kids we belong to the special people who are saved because of what we believe.

 

I let them ask, I answer as honestly as I can, and I leave it to them. My kids are deep thinkers and are finding their own way. I am personally grateful to my parents for not pushing religion onto me strongly (one athiest scientist parent and one very mild Christian who never went to church and later gave up Christianity too). It left me space to find my own way without having to undo a whole lot of beliefs (beliefs most people are usually fed during childhood and never question their whole lives).

 

I swear, Peela, sometimes I feel like we're parallel souls living in different hemispheres! LOL

 

****

 

(ok - this is going to be a bit long, but there is a point, I swear)

 

******

 

Echoing what she has said, although I was raised Roman Catholic (strongly), I didn't have anything (really) to do with the Church from the ages of 17-40.

 

Oh, sure, we got married there, we (eventually) had kid baptized (3 years late), we even had a fleeting relationship with a parish for a couple of years & kid had his first communion (which completely perplexed him).

 

But overall? Nah.

 

Kid spent more time teaching himself about Bhuddism than anything else. I honestly thought that was going to be his path (pardon the pun).

 

But, like Peela says, we've always lived a life of values. Kid was the one in the neighborhood who never got into trouble, was always quick to help anyone (and still is). The lack of organized religion wasn't "screwing him up".

 

We're in a different situation than most people (aspie kid, aspie, non-controlled epileptic mom, ex-military family), and we have had to make decisions at each step in our journey as to what "fits" our situation. When, at one posting, a neighbor who knew I had a penchant for Tarot took it upon themselves to poison my garden, put brimstone under my bedroom window, light "purifying candles" IN MY BUSHES, and plant foxglove at one foot intervals around my entire yard... sigh.

 

I did rain dances just to p!ss them off. :lol:

 

My point is, have your kid do lots of reading. And be aware that very simple things may freak people out to a level that is purely psychotic (though they, themselves, would not view it that way).

 

Kid still wears a beautiful bronze Buddha in a gold cage given to him by a Laotian woman who lived next door to us. Right next to his Mary of Perpetual Help. He calls it his MaryBuddha. He has gotten unmitigated sh!t for it from other Catholic teens, but not from priests, who know the Church has no issue with Buddhism (it's a philosophy, not a religion).

 

So... why are we back with the Catholics? Part of it may be that settling down thing that GTjo mentioned. For me and kid, though (not speaking for hubby), it is a two-fold thing: aspies crave structure. Crave it. Change is bad, bad, bad. If you know anything about the RCC, it changes about as fast as, well, not at all. And it has the same basic underpinnings all over the world (which is where we live). Second, I'm not going to live forever. Kid is an only. He has moved so often that he has ties nowhere. He has acquaintances, not friends.

 

Yet he feels at peace. He knows that, no matter where he goes, there is one place he understands. Completely. That won't change in his eyes.

 

I think that that is what children need - and it doesn't matter where it comes from. If they have a place to rest their soul (so to speak), a place to feel 'complete' - then we have done our jobs as parents.

 

 

asta

[sassyscrapperinid]

Wow! Thanks you guys! You have certainly given me a lot to ponder. I appreciate your comments and list of things to study. :001_smile:

I think it might be because we (at least for sure me) are coming out of the LDS faith so to speak. It is so structured, and defined, and filled with customs, it is weird for me (and sometimes a bit uncomfortable) to be where I am now. The uncertainty. But the uncertainty feels better than the hypocrisy so.... And that has led to a whole bunch of unanswered questions and answers that no longer "cut it". However, thinking back, one of the reasons why I joined the church was because I didnt want my children to have SO many questions about religion/God. I dont want to confuse them, but I want them to find their own path too. Anyways- thanks!!

[mommymilkies]

Well, not all Pagans are Wiccan or consider themselves "witches". It is a huge category. I know Wiccans, Buddhists, Astaru, etc. believers who all feel very strongly in different ways. I subscribe more to Pagan beliefs (UU with Buddhist and Celtic leanings) and I was raised Jewish (and with Catholic and Baptist family). I do talk to my kids about my beliefs if they ask, and I have found the Celebrating the Great Mother to be a good Nature Based spirituality for kids book. Nothing pushy-I wasn't as big a fan of Circle Round, especially the relationship advice in there. But my kids are atheist like my dh because I never told them about my beliefs. Which is fine-that's their choice, but I do wish now that I had talked more about my beliefs with them.

[zenjenn]

I am a pseudo-observant God-believing Jew with an intense respect for religion, but who was raised in a secular Jewish home and felt I was "missing" religion growing up.

 

Just to offer you some perspective - I think religion serves a very specific purpose for human beings. A need to explain the unknowable, to find comfort in a higher power, to experience ritual and tradition, to create identity, to separate sacred from profane, and so on.

 

That said, I think it is valuable to claim ownership a particular religious practice in a household with children. This is our faith. It has meaning and function for many people. Those who reject religion often create their own or latch on to something else to which they can apply passion and faith. For example, the fitness zealot or the worshiper of wealth.

 

Doing this does not mean you are necessarily dictating lifelong beliefs or disparaging other faiths, but it is giving your children something spiritual to hold on to, if they need it. (And not ALL children will, but many will.)

 

I am raising my kids Jewish but I still take the approach of explaining what others believe. In fact I think understanding, say, Christianity, is actually integral to being an educated Westerner.

 

I am giving them Judaism to claim as their own. This is "our" tradition, "our" holidays, "our" community that exists no matter where we go on Earth, and a way I can teach them to relate to God. I do not present spiritual things in absolutes, but I offer it to them. Here it is, something to call your own. Even if my kids reject it, at least they have *something* to reject. They also have something to go back to if they don't know where else to go and at some point in their lives they are hurting, suffering, and alone.

 

FWIW my husband is an ex-Catholic ethical monotheist who is on board with this approach. We did pre-martial counseling with both a priest and a rabbi, in separate sessions, and BOTH offered this perspective. They actually wanted us to give our children something, some way to relate to God, even if it wasn't their specific religion. In their experience, children raised in a multi-faith home or a faith which espoused multiple religions indistinguishable, the kids had an intellectual understanding of world religions but no spiritual connection to anything. The priest, for example touted the virtues of Catholicism but would prefer Judaism what ultimately ended up being nothing at all.

 

This had a huge impact on me, coming from a veteran rabbi and a veteran priest.

 

Just sharing my thoughts. Good luck. :)

Edited July 18, 2011 by zenjenn

[Melinda in VT]

If you haven't found it already, you may want to check out the New Order Mormon forum.

 

I haven't posted there in years, but when I was leaving Mormonism a decade ago, it was a helpful community. Many posters will be dealing with similar issues of dealing with kids' spiritual and religious questions when you no longer have all the answers.

 

Good luck.

[CariS]

Hi,

 

After reading this, I was hesitant to answer. However I know how lonely the life of someone not in a major religion can be, especially when it comes to the kids questions. I hesitated because religion can be such a touchy subject.

 

I'm a Pagan as well, altho not Wiccan. What you are doing by saying some people believe this and others believe that is exactly how we handle things. Dh and I being of different beliefs and having close family with even more this was the only diplomatic solution. Plus we also felt it was very important for our kids to grow up judging people based on that persons actions, not what religion they follow. I've always told my kids the world would be a boring place if we were all the same. So just as my kids have learned about why ancient Egyptians built pyramids, they also have learned about why Grandpa and Grandma celebrate Christmas. We do spend a lot more time on Christianity because we live in America (it's a big part of American culture), and most of our relatives are one type of Christian or another. I'm very open with what I believe when talking with them, and generalize things when it comes to extended family. Also their grandparents talk to them about what they believe, and take them to church on occasion. We also do some things together as family that are religious in nature. There are also the times that kids just want an answer to things. When you find the dead goldfish it's not the time to have a long talk, they just want to be comforted, kwim. I read my kids needs at the moment and when they just want an answer I tell them what I believe. I look at things this way: Everyone has their own path they walk, when kids are young they walk with their parents because they aren't old enough to walk alone.

 

~Cari

[Amy in NH]

(a) a comparative religions approach to studying faith, and (b) a broad study of critical thinking, the scientific method and the intellectual history of the Enlightenment as way of exploring how people of the past have grappled with their own questions about religion.

 

Good luck to you on your journey!

 

:iagree:

 

Usborne Internet Linked Encyclopedia of World Religions is a good place to start with (a). Plain ole history a la TWTM works well for (b).

[Joyofsixreboot]

 

.... I mean seriously, imagine for example that the only correct believers are the Methodists. Do they stand inside the pearly gates thinking, "Look at those poor Episcopal and Baptist folks. Too bad they didn't come to OUR church."

.

 

We would form a committee to discuss it:lol: Seriously, a good discussion here. I have tried to represent all religions to my kids as having worth. And also explained how some humans can mess up anything. I want them to think about what they believe.

[catz]

Living in such a "religious" culture as most Americans seem to...it must seem very way out not to teach Christianity or at least SOME religion to your kids, but its not so weird, really.

 

Hmmm ... I live in the US in a very secular area (major city), so this definitely would vary by community. I think the religious conservatives are a particularly vocal group.

 

Anyway, I'm a Unitarian influenced by many major faiths and traditions (including earth based traditions, Buddhism, etc) but maybe still agnostic overall. My husband and I left the Catholic Church when we married. We introduce our kids to ALL faiths and traditions and consider this a journey to ponder over the course of a lifetime. A Unitarian church can be a great fit for a spiritual wanderer. Encourage questioning and researching and learning! I think your own moral compass and conscience is much more important that prescribing to a particular dogma.

 

And I'll second those who suggest either (a) a comparative religions approach to studying faith, or (b) a broad study of critical thinking, the scientific method and the intellectual history of the Enlightenment as way of exploring how people of the past have grappled with their own questions about religion.

 

:iagree: I like this!

 

 

Good luck on your journey!

Edited July 19, 2011 by kck

[Ipsey]

Hi!

 

My husband and I left conservative Evangelical Christianity several years ago. We feel very fortunate that we lost faith together and still have that in common :) We're atheists.

 

We've just explained it to the children much like you have. When they ask about beliefs, I explain them about each religion as best as I can, or we look them up.

 

I have a nature-based "spirituality" so to speak. I take time to really recognize nature, and have started creating my own simple rituals and moments in nature as part of that. So, I suppose I'm becoming more and more pagan. I don't believe in gods, but I do recognize that I'm part of a great nature, and recognizing that and respecting the other lives around me are important to me.

 

My husband is an outdoors enthusiast, but has no inclination to have "rituals", being outdoors is just part of life and work for him, and I'm sure he'd want no part of spiritual "rituals" of mine, but that's ok. :)

 

My children show no interest in religion anymore. They were glad when we stopped going to church. Honestly, I hope they never develop interest in organized religion, but I try to let them suss it out for themselves.

[sassyscrapperinid]

Hi-

I just wanted to say thanks for all the great input here. I really do appreciate it as well as all the good wishes. I look forward to reading more thoughts about this. :001_smile:

[Truscifi]

We are not Christian, or particularly religious at all. We have talked about different religions as we have come across them in our history cycle. We will be studying modern times this year, so we have covered quite a few now. We also have friends who are (various denominations of) Christian, Jewish, Hindu, and Baha'i. Ds just recently asked if he could go to different services to learn more about the different religions - he has a list that includes church, synagogue, mosque, and ashram. I am working on finding places that would be okay with some nonbelievers sitting in to learn, and are kid friendly (ds is only 7).

 

I don't know if your kids are interested in learning about other faiths, but if so going to services might be good for them as well.

[twoforjoy]

When my son asks me theological questions, I usually answer with a "Some people think this...other people think this...other people think this...What do you think?" I generally don't push my own opinion or what my church teaches when it's a contested issue. I figure DS can ask me specifically what I think if he's curious, and I can tell him, but otherwise I just want to provide him with information and allow him to make up his own mind.