Should we let 9yo quit violin? I could really use some advice

[helena]

Okay, here's the facts:

-she plays piano and violin

-lessons are once a week, 1/2 hour per instrument

-she practices an average of 5 days a week for 15 min.

-she rarely gives me a hard time about going to class or practice

-she enjoys piano (and wants to stick with it) but is not as motivated as she used to be in practice

-she's been playing for over 4 years

 

She doesn't want to play because she "can't stand it". She says that she doesn't like a single thing about it, the teacher isn't a "good match" for her, it hurts her neck, she's terrible a it (not true).

 

 

She's been wanting to quit for over a year now. I waited to see if it was just a phase, but it seems it's not, she truly doesn't like it :(.

 

I don't want to let her quit because:

-she's pretty good, has already put so much time into it, and may wind up regretting it down the line.

-I've offered to let her switch instruments. I've had her try recorder and cello lessons. I've offered to set up the drums in our living room to play with, but she turns her nose up to everything.

-While we've had a few problems with the teacher, things have been long dealt with. She's a good teacher, and I think my kid is wrong on this. I've offered to try a different violin teacher and she said no.

-My mom pays for the classes, and I hate to waste an opportunity like this.

-I know her neck hurts from Tourettes and a terrible fall a few years ago. She's undergoing treatments to help with this chronic pain. Violin is the only activity that the neck pain seems to interfere with.

-my parents let me quit everything, and I absolutely don't want to repeat that mistake.

- I want her to develop skills to stick with things, especially when it gets hard (her pieces haven't become hard suddenly).

-we're a very musical family. She has a lot of support. My ILs are a singer and sax player. Hubbys been in plenty of bands and is in the record business. We have diverse taste in what we listen to and what we go listen to. Musicians are always coming and going in our house and lives.

-the above is a partial answer to "Why do we have her in music classes?"

It's a big part of our family culture.

 

Today she started crying as soon as we got into the car after class. She wants to quit so badly. I don't know what to do... my husband is also starting to feel unsure about making her stick with it.

 

Is there an obvious answer here, and I'm just not seeing it? Somebody, please enlighten me. What's a mom to do??

 

WOW! This got long! :tongue_smilie:

Edited July 15, 2011 by helena

[Dmmetler]

I'm a musician and music teacher, and my thought is-let her play piano, but up the piano lesson/practice time since she'll be doing one instrument instead of two. It may simply be that violin isn't the right instrument for her now, and she can learn skills on piano as well as on violin. For most other instruments, she's still very young-most wind instrument instruction doesn't even begin until 5th-6th grade.

 

Violin is a GREAT instrument to start on when DC are young, because it's so adaptable to the child, but it's not the right instrument for every child. My DD would cry every time she heard it when she was younger-something about the instrument just jangled her nerves or something (she's hypersensory). But Piano and recorder are both great instruments for her, and I anticipate in another couple of years she'll trade recorder in on flute and never look back.

[amyco]

:grouphug:

 

Wow, at only 9 years old and feels so strongly about it? The thing is, she probably won't ever start liking it again. We are in the exact same boat with my dd and piano (her only instrument)--played 5 years, is pretty good, but just wants to quit even though she "knows" she might regret it.

 

But I've been thinking about it. What are your goals for your dd and violin? I know music is huge in your family, but are you expecting her to become a serious violin player that plays in good orchestras and such? Or did you just want her to get exposed to it and appreciate it? I guess what I'm asking is, would it be okay if she didn't meet your goals for her? Are you the one who's going to be disappointed? I think sometimes we moms (and dads) have a harder time letting go of these things than they do. She can always pick it up again...I didn't even start playing violin until age 9!!

 

It's been over a year and she still badly wants to quit. It's not wasted time or effort at all, having even a little training in an instrument. You've done a great thing introducing her to the violin. Is there any other creative outlet she'd like to try, like voice or art lessons? Or even harp or banjo? I know you like the teacher, but would she be happier with a different teacher?

 

Just some thoughts. I would probably let her quit--especially because she's still in piano.

[WishboneDawn]

I'd let her quit the violin. It sounds like going on with it might kill any future enjoyment so let her put it away for now and keep it as something she can come back to without bad feelings.

[helena]

I'm a musician and music teacher, and my thought is-let her play piano, but up the piano lesson/practice time since she'll be doing one instrument instead of two. It may simply be that violin isn't the right instrument for her now, and she can learn skills on piano as well as on violin. For most other instruments, she's still very young-most wind instrument instruction doesn't even begin until 5th-6th grade.

 

Violin is a GREAT instrument to start on when DC are young, because it's so adaptable to the child, but it's not the right instrument for every child. My DD would cry every time she heard it when she was younger-something about the instrument just jangled her nerves or something (she's hypersensory). But Piano and recorder are both great instruments for her, and I anticipate in another couple of years she'll trade recorder in on flute and never look back.

 

Thank you

When all this started I told her, IF you give up violin you need to be more dedicated to piano. Somehow over the last year that concept got lost..

 

That's a good compromise.

 

Ah! I should go back and edit, she took a lesson with her recorder. She's retained what she learned and does a lot of prancing around the house playing. :001_smile: But, she's not interested in more lessons.

[helena]

:grouphug:

 

Wow, at only 9 years old and feels so strongly about it? The thing is, she probably won't ever start liking it again. We are in the exact same boat with my dd and piano (her only instrument)--played 5 years, is pretty good, but just wants to quit even though she "knows" she might regret it.

 

But I've been thinking about it. What are your goals for your dd and violin? I know music is huge in your family, but are you expecting her to become a serious violin player that plays in good orchestras and such? Or did you just want her to get exposed to it and appreciate it? I guess what I'm asking is, would it be okay if she didn't meet your goals for her? Are you the one who's going to be disappointed? I think sometimes we moms (and dads) have a harder time letting go of these things than they do. She can always pick it up again...I didn't even start playing violin until age 9!!

 

It's been over a year and she still badly wants to quit. It's not wasted time or effort at all, having even a little training in an instrument. You've done a great thing introducing her to the violin. Is there any other creative outlet she'd like to try, like voice or art lessons? Or even harp or banjo? I know you like the teacher, but would she be happier with a different teacher?

 

Just some thoughts. I would probably let her quit--especially because she's still in piano.

 

Great question

We don't expect her to become a violinist, and we don't ask them to join orchestra (though it is available to her after she reaches a certain level).

 

I honestly don't think I'd be disappointed beyond "darn, I wish that would have gone different". I think my major hang up is that I don't want to raised a giver up'er. I want her to work at hard things. But maybe this isn't the situation to make that stand.

 

She can always pick it up later? :blush: I'm such a knuckle head! You're right. If she want's to, she can always pick it up again.

 

She's taken to archery recently. Piano and archery seems like plenty.

 

She has access to a lot of instruments. She like to dabble and mess around with everything, but she doesn't want formal lessons, not even once to see what she thinks. Hmmm... is that perfectly okay?

[helena]

I'd let her quit the violin. It sounds like going on with it might kill any future enjoyment so let her put it away for now and keep it as something she can come back to without bad feelings.

 

That's my husbands concern. He doesn't want to kill the joy (and neither do I).

[justasque]

I think my major hang up is that I don't want to raised a giver up'er. I want her to work at hard things. But maybe this isn't the situation to make that stand.

 

 

 

It sounds like she has worked hard at violin for four years. That's not a giver-up'er. We do all however only have so much time. If she would like to spend her time differently, either on piano, or on another instrument, or just on messing around with music, or listening to music, or even on something altogether different, that's not a bad thing. It is through putting some interests to the side that we make room in our lives for new ones. Sometimes the new one is there first; sometimes we have to make the space first, not knowing what the new one will be until it comes along.

[NanceXToo]

I would absolutely let her quit. No one should have to invest that much time in something they don't enjoy and that makes them that upset.

[catz]

I'm a musician and music teacher, and my thought is-let her play piano, but up the piano lesson/practice time since she'll be doing one instrument instead of two.

 

 

:iagree: I think this is a great idea. Is she just doing 15 minutes practice each on violin and piano? Her piano progress can probably really pick up if she puts this time into something she enjoys more. I consider music mandatory for my kids, but if it's at the point where she's asked consistently over a long time and starts crying after a lesson, I'd probably let that go.

 

I have a piano kid and violin kid for the record.

[VBCaroline]

My 13 yo dd started playing the violin when she was six. By the time she was 10, she wanted to quit so I told her that she had to choose another instrument and take lessons for a minimum of a year before she could stop violin. She joined a youth orchestra the same year, and, lo and behold, she started to love the violin. Maybe a youth orchestra would make it more enjoyable for your dd, too?

[zaichiki]

So she's still playing b/c you want her to practice not giving up, right? (Sounds like a worthy goal to me.) So... if she really doesn't WANT to play the violin, when would be a good time to stop? When will the lesson have been learned? I mean, you likely don't want her to play *forever* in order to learn not giving up, right? So at what point is the objective accomplished and she is able to choose to stop if she likes?

 

I think it would break my heart if my child was *crying* because she wanted to quit.

 

Sounds like she still loves music, but maybe just not the violin. It could happen. :D

Edited July 16, 2011 by zaichiki

[gardenmom5]

She doesn't want to play because she "can't stand it". She says that she doesn't like a single thing about it, the teacher isn't a "good match" for her, it hurts her neck, she's terrible a it (not true).

She's been wanting to quit for over a year now. I waited to see if it was just a phase, but it seems it's not, she truly doesn't like it :(.

 

I don't want to let her quit because:

-I've offered to let her switch instruments.

-While we've had a few problems with the teacher, things have been long dealt with. She's a good teacher, and I think my kid is wrong on this. I've offered to try a different violin teacher and she said no.

-I know her neck hurts from Tourettes and a terrible fall a few years ago. She's undergoing treatments to help with this chronic pain. Violin is the only activity that the neck pain seems to interfere with.

 

 

a few thoughts . . . . .

-regardless of how you feel about the teacher - your daughter doesn't like her and that will color all of her perceptions.

- switching instruments - you can make that a condition of quiting violin. the ability to read music will transfer. My husband's nephew changed instruments seven times - his mother was very patient. he fell in love with cello. she may like something else after she's tried it.

- you're a musical family - that doesn't mean she feel's like *she* is and she may be rebelling against a perception she "conform to the family".

 

and the biggie - the neck

does her instrument fit her properly? how's the chinrest? the shoulder rest? not some cheap quality one you'd typically give to a child, but does she need a higher quality one that will position her neck properly? think about the position her neck is in playing violin compared to everything else she does. everything else she does doesn't require her to hold something between her chin and shoulder while turning her head at a constant 90 degree angle. especially if she has neck problems.

[gardenmom5]

She has access to a lot of instruments. She like to dabble and mess around with everything, but she doesn't want formal lessons, not even once to see what she thinks. Hmmm... is that perfectly okay?

 

I think that would be a great thing. She has power over what she does, without any pressure of formal lessons. by putting the ball in her court (so to speak) she may surprise you one day by wanting lessons in one of these things because *she* has power over it. she's nine, just let her enjoy what she does especially as she is getting exposure to things.

[catz]

does her instrument fit her properly? how's the chinrest? the shoulder rest?

 

 

GREAT point. We put a whittner chin rest and an everest shoulder rest on my daughter's 1/8th size to make a good fit. She was whining and crying constantly before we made that change. It made a huge difference.

 

The whittner chin rest is especially great - all smooth edges and much larger than a typical chin rest.

[Teachin'Mine]

I would let her quit violin lessons. Maybe after a short break, I'd offer to find her a new teacher if she'd be interested. Teachers can make all the difference.

[bettyandbob]

It sounds like music lessons are nonnegotiable in your family. However, I'm not sure she needs 2 instruments.

 

Keep the piano lessons. Make it clear they are never going away, just like writing and math. Learning the piano is so foundational in music anyway, so it's great thing to stick with rather than another instrument.

[JessReplanted]

I would let her quit!!

[helena]

It sounds like she has worked hard at violin for four years. That's not a giver-up'er. We do all however only have so much time. If she would like to spend her time differently, either on piano, or on another instrument, or just on messing around with music, or listening to music, or even on something altogether different, that's not a bad thing. It is through putting some interests to the side that we make room in our lives for new ones. Sometimes the new one is there first; sometimes we have to make the space first, not knowing what the new one will be until it comes along.

Thank you for this perspective, and you're right she clearly not a giver-up'er.

 

I would absolutely let her quit. No one should have to invest that much time in something they don't enjoy and that makes them that upset.

You're right. I think it's going to become counterproductive at this point.

 

:iagree: I think this is a great idea. Is she just doing 15 minutes practice each on violin and piano? Her piano progress can probably really pick up if she puts this time into something she enjoys more. I consider music mandatory for my kids, but if it's at the point where she's asked consistently over a long time and starts crying after a lesson, I'd probably let that go.

 

I have a piano kid and violin kid for the record.

 

She practices a lot longer on piano. She also likes to stop by the piano through out the day to play a song or two. The violin comes out of the case and gets put back for the day, there's no love there.

 

I've told her that if she quits violin, piano needs to pick up a bit. I'm sure it will without issue.

[helena]

My 13 yo dd started playing the violin when she was six. By the time she was 10, she wanted to quit so I told her that she had to choose another instrument and take lessons for a minimum of a year before she could stop violin. She joined a youth orchestra the same year, and, lo and behold, she started to love the violin. Maybe a youth orchestra would make it more enjoyable for your dd, too?

 

Hmmm.. I'm going to talk to her about orchestra today. Who knows, maybe she'll be interested? At this point though, I'm feeling sure we're done.

 

So she's still playing b/c you want her to practice not giving up, right? (Sounds like a worthy goal to me.) So... if she really doesn't WANT to play the violin, when would be a good time to stop? When will the lesson have been learned? I mean, you likely don't want her to play *forever* in order to learn not giving up, right? So at what point is the objective accomplished and she is able to choose to stop if she likes?

 

I think it would break my heart if my child was *crying* because she wanted to quit.

 

Sounds like she still loves music, but maybe just not the violin. It could happen. :D

Ugh.. my heart hurt yesterday to see her cry. She said "I don't care if you think I'm bad, I'll never go back". I felt ill. We talked for a long time. I told her that she's not bad for not wanting to play violin. Nobody would feel that way if she stops.

I'm going to take her out.

[helena]

a few thoughts . . . . .

-regardless of how you feel about the teacher - your daughter doesn't like her and that will color all of her perceptions.

- switching instruments - you can make that a condition of quiting violin. the ability to read music will transfer. My husband's nephew changed instruments seven times - his mother was very patient. he fell in love with cello. she may like something else after she's tried it.

- you're a musical family - that doesn't mean she feel's like *she* is and she may be rebelling against a perception she "conform to the family".

 

and the biggie - the neck

does her instrument fit her properly? how's the chinrest? the shoulder rest? not some cheap quality one you'd typically give to a child, but does she need a higher quality one that will position her neck properly? think about the position her neck is in playing violin compared to everything else she does. everything else she does doesn't require her to hold something between her chin and shoulder while turning her head at a constant 90 degree angle. especially if she has neck problems.

 

All great thoughts, thank you so much for taking the time to break it down with me. My husband and I feel like it's time to take her out. Now we're working through the should we let her play and explore instruments here at home, or should we have her choose a second instrument.

 

You're right, the neck problem is the biggie. I'm not going to do anything that puts her at further risk of neck pain. We tried many things with the instrument, posture, sitting, chinrest.. the discomfort is still there.

[Beth in OH]

My husband and I feel like it's time to take her out. Now we're working through the should we let her play and explore instruments here at home, or should we have her choose a second instrument.

 

Here are my random thoughts, having raised 3 musical kids, 2 of whom are becoming musicians.

 

1. Chamber music saved the musical lives of dds #2 and #3. It created the motivation that they needed, the social life that they craved, and the competition they missed elsewhere (through things like the Fischoff National Chamber Music Competition). For lots of people, making music is a very social endeavor. Piano is not generally an ensemble instrument, and even for chamber music, the piano skills necessary to participate are very high. It's not so much a student endeavor.

 

 

2. I viewed the ages 8-11 as a time to make as much progress on a single instrument as possible. Here's my thinking: Many musical kids go through a rough patch around age 11-13 where they are no longer just following mom's lead, but needing to choose for themselves whether they want to continue with music. I wanted my kids to be as proficient as possible when they hit that stage. My hope was that they would recognize for themselves that they had already accomplished a lot, and even if they coasted for a few years, they were already pretty good players. I could only get 45 minutes to 1 hour of practice time per day from my kids at those ages, so I chose to spend it all on a single instrument. They are constantly measuring themselves against others, and there are quite a few kids who practice at least that long on their primary instrument.

 

3. Beginning in 9th grade, my dd's picked up their 2nd instrument--entirely of their own choosing. Both dd #2 and #3 added piano at that time. My violinist did it just to be proficient in college and to create a foundation for her music writing skills. My flute player has ended up loving the piano and plays for personal enjoyment all the time.

 

 

Hopefully you can see that i'm not advocating a particular path, rather, I'm throwing some conflicting thoughts into the mix. I am not a parent that just wanted to provide a musical foundation for my kids and would be willing to let them have much self-direction before a certain age. I wanted to give my kids the gift of mastery before they chose for themselves. It's not a path for everyone.

[helena]

Here are my random thoughts, having raised 3 musical kids, 2 of whom are becoming musicians.

 

1. Chamber music saved the musical lives of dds #2 and #3. It created the motivation that they needed, the social life that they craved, and the competition they missed elsewhere (through things like the Fischoff National Chamber Music Competition). For lots of people, making music is a very social endeavor. Piano is not generally an ensemble instrument, and even for chamber music, the piano skills necessary to participate are very high. It's not so much a student endeavor.

 

 

2. I viewed the ages 8-11 as a time to make as much progress on a single instrument as possible. Here's my thinking: Many musical kids go through a rough patch around age 11-13 where they are no longer just following mom's lead, but needing to choose for themselves whether they want to continue with music. I wanted my kids to be as proficient as possible when they hit that stage. My hope was that they would recognize for themselves that they had already accomplished a lot, and even if they coasted for a few years, they were already pretty good players. I could only get 45 minutes to 1 hour of practice time per day from my kids at those ages, so I chose to spend it all on a single instrument. They are constantly measuring themselves against others, and there are quite a few kids who practice at least that long on their primary instrument.

 

3. Beginning in 9th grade, my dd's picked up their 2nd instrument--entirely of their own choosing. Both dd #2 and #3 added piano at that time. My violinist did it just to be proficient in college and to create a foundation for her music writing skills. My flute player has ended up loving the piano and plays for personal enjoyment all the time.

 

 

Hopefully you can see that i'm not advocating a particular path, rather, I'm throwing some conflicting thoughts into the mix. I am not a parent that just wanted to provide a musical foundation for my kids and would be willing to let them have much self-direction before a certain age. I wanted to give my kids the gift of mastery before they chose for themselves. It's not a path for everyone.

 

Thank you Beth

It's helpful to hear from people who are a little further down the road than us.

Yesterday we told her she can stop violin lessons (along with other thoughts and expectations). When she went to get on piano she asked me how long she had to practice. I told her that she's now a very serious piano student and that she needs to dive in deep. She got the most happy look on her face. She put in a long beautiful practice.

I know this is one of many things we'll have to work through with music. For now though, I'm excited to see some positive changes.

 

Tomorrow I'll talk to her teachers.

Thanks everyone for your advice, it's appreciated.

[bbmom]

If she has been asking to quit for a year and cried after class I would let her quit. My two biggest markers of whether a child really doesn't like something or just doesn't want to go is how long they have been asking and how they are after class. If she was just asking not to go but was having a good time in lessons and coming home happy, my answer might be different since every long-term activity is a series of hills and plateaus in enjoyment/progress, but I give that about 6 months. After 6 months I think it is time to re-evaluate, and especially if they are leaving lessons so upset they are crying. She is still sticking with piano and if playing an instrument is an important thing for your family, I would sit down with her and tell her you will let her quit violin but you expect her to be a little more serious about piano to make up for it and she needs to play an instrument so if at some point she winds up in the same place with piano, she must at that point pick another instrument to replace it with.

[KungFuPanda]

I don't think a child should be obligated to do something like this for life because her parents put her in it in Kindergarten. That's asking too much and adding the family pressure to the situation seems completely unfair to a 9-year-old! She's simply not a quitter for wanting to play only one instrument at the age of 9.

 

Of course, you can take what I say with a grain of salt because I also came from a musical family and was forced to take piano lessons for YEARS. It was miserable. Not being a quitter is about finishing a season. It's not about letting someone else make a lifetime commitment for you. What if your mother decided when you were in preschool that you were going to be a ballerina?

 

KFP