Do you keep the Sabbath holy?

[Violet Crown]

I can't believe what people do to participate in team sports when they have tournaments every other weekend. It seems like if your team does well, you are litterally at the field all day Saturday and Sunday. I couldn't do that.

:iagree:

I think you're touching on a deeper issue, and I thank you for bringing it up. One reason religions have traditionally had a day of rest is, obviously, for resting. Being secular shouldn't mean then ignoring the human need for rest. Sometimes I see the expectations sports organizations have for children--ordinary children, not proto-Olympians--and wonder if they remember that kids need downtime (physical and mental) and family time. Whether that time involves religious obligations, or not.

[Jewish Mama of 4]

I don't think things are going to change. My daughters do gymnastics. We have had very diverse teammates: Mormons who won't compete on Sundays, Seventh Day Adventists who don't do anything from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday. Jews who don't compete Saturdays, Christians who can't compete Sundays.

 

This is all fine and good, and the coach accommodated their wishes for local meets. But I can't imagine trying to accommodate every child's religious preference for a state, regional, or national meet. What if there were kids in one age group who could not compete on all days of the competition? When do you schedule the age group? I'm all for taking a day off of school for the meet, but most people would protest.

 

I think it's admirable to be more committed to your family/religious time than you are to a sport, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect the rest of the world to adjust to your time schedule. Every family needs to decide its priorities. You can choose whether or not to participate in an activity, but I don't think you should inflict your priorities on others.

 

(My apologies to 6packofun for "feeling the need to comment at all," as I am an atheist...;))

 

:iagree:

[Nestof3]

From stories my husband tells me, his parents were similar to this. His mother would bad-mouth the neighbors for mowing a lawn on Sunday. I always think, "What if this is the only day he has off from work?" or "What if he enjoys mowing the lawn?" It's funny because my MIL DOES enjoy doing the lawn work, but she wouldn't do it on Sunday.

 

(Oh, and they live in the country, so she wasn't annoyed that the neighbor was making noise -- just that he was mowing on a Sunday).

 

Now, she didn't put preparing meals in the category of work. In fact, Sunday was the big meal of the week. So, they didn't take a literal Jewish-like Sabbath. But, she was great at criticizing someone for doing any work that she wouldn't do on a Sunday.

 

I have to admit that just the title of this thread made me wince.

 

I grew up in a very legalistic home. Sundays were holy, holy, holy and you were in direct violation to God almighty if you played games, worked on the lawn, shopped, or in any way didn't just sit and do almost nothing all Sunday long.

 

I dreaded and hated Sundays in my home.

[kristinannie]

Kristinannie, I'm pretty sure you are Catholic, so I wanted to add that Jeff Cavins does a really nice job on this topic in the Great Adventure Bible Series. I'll try to go back to my notes and post some of his thoughts.

 

 

Thanks for that info! I will definitely look into that!

[8circles]

I agree with Jean in Newcastle & others but I also wanted to add that I believe that keeping the Sabbath is for us, not for God. He rested on the 7th day but he didn't need to - it isn't as if God got tired. But we do & we need the rest that only he can provide.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Totally understand what you're saying. Except I'm not quite sure what you mean by "I don't think should inflict [my] priorities on others."

 

What I was saying was, if sports are crowding out the time that my religious beliefs require for religious observance, then I am going to bring it to the attention of those making the requirement. What they choose to do from there is up to them; my only duty on Sunday is to get myself and my children to Mass.

 

If everybody does the same, then those who organize the sporting events will have a clearer idea of what their scheduling means for ordinary families. That gives them information. I'd never say "You can't hold this on Sundays, because that doesn't work for my family." But I sure will speak up and say "If this takes up all of Sunday, from morning to evening, my family will not participate, because we have a non-negotiable priority of worship."

 

I think many people and organizations are more than happy to make reasonable accommodations. But they can't do that if they don't have the relevant information. And they won't have that information if people don't speak up. (This principle is meant to be inclusive of all faiths, or lack of faiths.)

 

If you join a team that has Sunday meets/tournaments etc., then you are letting down the team to pull your child for those Sunday meets. The time to negotiate would be prior to joining the team. By joining the team you are tacitly agreeing to support the team by being there for all meets. If having Sunday off is so important than you should find activities or sports that don't require Sunday involvement.

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

Thanks for that info! I will definitely look into that!

 

 

 

• • Sabbath God rested; Sabbath was created for man, will we act like beasts & not acknowledge God or will we enter into the Sabbath (put down our own work & pickup the work of the Lord & enter into rest)

   

   

   

 

 

This is what I have in my notes. ETA: He mentions beasts as in the animals created the day before rest. Will we run around like them?

I ask myself how am I picking up the work of the Lord?

 

I don't think I would be totally opposed to athletics on Sunday unless it interfered with our 'rest' as a family. They would never be allowed to override what we do for our spirituality. I might find sitting down and watching my child play soccer or swim relaxing. But, what about the child? Is it interfering with his/her rest? That is a great dialogue to have with my child to bring them into a conscious awareness of how 'he' will enter into rest for himself.

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

BTW, expect this topic to come back up in December when Christmas falls on Sunday

[Violet Crown]

If you join a team that has Sunday meets/tournaments etc., then you are letting down the team to pull your child for those Sunday meets. The time to negotiate would be prior to joining the team. By joining the team you are tacitly agreeing to support the team by being there for all meets. If having Sunday off is so important than you should find activities or sports that don't require Sunday involvement.

I disagree. The athletic club in question participates in various tournaments. A few tournaments have been organized such that the kids are expected to be on site from early morning to evening on the day they compete--which is sometimes Sunday.

 

So because some tournaments may interfere with religious obligations, my child can't be a member of the athletic club? Nonsense. We are not "letting down the team." This strikes me as an odd privileging of sport above much more significant obligations. You're of course free to disagree. You're free to be annoyed that our family has the priorities it does. That's inevitable, I think, in a highly secularized society that sees religious commitment as just one more item on the buffet of life.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I disagree. The athletic club in question participates in various tournaments. A few tournaments have been organized such that the kids are expected to be on site from early morning to evening on the day they compete--which is sometimes Sunday.

 

So because some tournaments may interfere with religious obligations, my child can't be a member of the athletic club? Nonsense. We are not "letting down the team." This strikes me as an odd privileging of sport above much more significant obligations. You're of course free to disagree. You're free to be annoyed that our family has the priorities it does. That's inevitable, I think, in a highly secularized society that sees religious commitment as just one more item on the buffet of life.

 

I have the same priorities - not on keeping the Sabbath holy, because I see that issue as being different in the church age, but on having a priority on church teaching and fellowship. We followed through on those priorities by taking our dd off of her gymnastics team - for a lot of reasons which included their Sunday obligations. We've found other opportunities for her which do not conflict with our priorities.

[Erica in PA]

It's not my understanding that the Sabbath restrictions apply to Christians, so I don't think that God requires us to avoid particular activities on Sundays- however, church is very important to our family, so we would not allow our children to play sports and miss church. There have been sports and activities that our kids haven't been able to participate in because of this, and it does annoy me that people schedule sports for Sunday morning. Of course not everyone attends church, but there is still a large number of people in our country who do, and I think the number is large enough to be worth considering. With all day Saturday available, and most of the day Sunday for most people, I think before noon on Sundays should be avoided when scheduling activities like these.

[Murphy101]

I do almost nothing other than mass.

Sometimes bowling afterwards.

Dh sometimes does grocery shopping.

That's it.

We very rarely permit any commitments on the calendar on Sundays. Certainly no regular ones such as games the kids would have to play.

 

Sadly this didn't start as a Sabbath issue.

 

It started and sometimes still is more a literal need for family time and rest.

 

ONE day a week, just 52 days of 365, dh should not have to go to work and I shouldn't have to run taxi shuttle and our family should not be divided over the city. I don't think that is too much to ask, tho society often seems to act as tho it is. I put my preverbal foot down in this several years ago.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I put my preverbal foot down in this several years ago.

 

Is your foot verbal now?;)

[Guest]

We go to church on Sundays, but the Sabbath is Saturday.

 

http://www.biblehistory.com/The%20Origin%20of%20Sunday%20Worship.html

 

http://www.cogwriter.com/sabbath.htm

Edited July 13, 2011 by Jinnah

[Violet Crown]

I have the same priorities - not on keeping the Sabbath holy, because I see that issue as being different in the church age, but on having a priority on church teaching and fellowship. We followed through on those priorities by taking our dd off of her gymnastics team - for a lot of reasons which included their Sunday obligations. We've found other opportunities for her which do not conflict with our priorities.

I think you did exactly the right thing. These things strike me as very circumstance-dependent. In our case, the tournaments dd has had to miss have been few, could have been arranged so that there would be some break during the weekend days for religious services, and the organizers (and coaches) could hardly have been shocked that, here in Texas, some families won't participate in a tournament that leaves no margin whatsoever for getting to a church service. Nor can one predict these in advance; each tournament is organized a few weeks or months in advance, in the way the hosting club or organization finds convenient. Further, participation in all tournaments isn't expected from club members; the bigger problem is the kids whose parents don't want to participate in competitions at all.

 

It sounds like in your case, there were clear expectations going in of regular Sunday events that were an expected part of team membership. If that were the case at our club, I would expect, as you say, to discuss it up front before handing over a check.

 

It's my general belief that nobody is out to "drive religion from the public square" (as I've heard it put) or target anybody's faith with hostile intent. I think many times organizations and clubs just aren't aware of the difficult choices some (many?) families are put to in order to have their child involved in sports. It wasn't that long ago, either, that churches/synagogues/parishes had their own sports teams. An Orthodox friend of mine was just lamenting the disappearance of these, and the impossibility of getting involved in sports if you couldn't participate on Saturdays. Bowling alone. But that's another thread I suppose.

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

We go to church on Sundays, but the Sabbath is Saturday.

 

 

It is an interesting fact to point out that the Protestants that claim not to follow any traditions and keep the Sabbath on Sunday are following a tradition set by the Catholic Church. The same is true for celebrating the Feast of the Nativity on December 25th.

[Lovedtodeath]

It's rather provocative (if not loaded) to ask, "Do you keep the Sabbath holy?", though, isn't it?

I didn't take it that way at all. We just read a Little House book all about how Sunday at home was devoted to the Lord and I have been talking to my DH about it ever since. I could see myself asking this question as a result. It is a question simply stated and doesn't need anyone to make more of it.

 

I was look forward to reading this thread in its entirety.. Now I am hoping that there isn't too much strife and feeling a little hesitant to read it.

[Murphy101]

Is your foot verbal now?;)

 

Yes. Nowadays I'm talking out my foot instead of my bum.;)

:lol:

 

 

 

Eta: stupid autocorrect. It seems to have a weird eclectic, yet limited vocabulary.

[8circles]

It is an interesting fact to point out that the Protestants that claim not to follow any traditions and keep the Sabbath on Sunday are following a tradition set by the Catholic Church. The same is true for celebrating the Feast of the Nativity on December 25th.

 

I'm typing one-handed again so I can't get into a lengthy discussion but this is not only an oversimplification but a misunderstanding of the view of many Protestants.

[ladydusk]

I'm typing one-handed again so I can't get into a lengthy discussion but this is not only an oversimplification but a misunderstanding of the view of many Protestants.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

We don't see tradition as equal with scripture, but tradition is important. Scripture trumps tradition rather than the other way around. We're doing the Catechism for Young Children, here is the section on the Fourth Commandment:

 

Q. 86. What is the fourth commandment?

A. The fourth commandment is, Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God; in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day; wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.

Q. 87. What does the fourth commandment teach us?

A. To keep the Sabbath holy.

Q. 88. What day of the week is the Christian Sabbath?

A. The first day of the week, called the Lord's day.

Q. 89. Why is it called the Lord's day?

A. Because on that day Christ rose from the dead.

Q. 90. How should the Sabbath be spent?

A. In prayer and praise, in hearing and reading God's Word, and in doing good to our fellow men.

 

 

We see the early church gathering on the first day of the week in Acts, therefore not based on tradition but the Word of God.

[Carol in Cal.]

It is an interesting fact to point out that the Protestants that claim not to follow any traditions and keep the Sabbath on Sunday are following a tradition set by the Catholic Church. The same is true for celebrating the Feast of the Nativity on December 25th.

 

Well, I don't speak for all protestants, but Lutherans don't reject tradition. They follow it pretty much unless it's directly contrary to God's Word. And yes, the church catholic has met on Sundays since Pentecost, but Lutherans follow that as a standard but not a requirement. The switch to Sunday worship occurred because Easter fell on a Sunday. Lutherans follow the major church year, generally, but tend to omit most of the feasts of non-Biblical saints.

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

:iagree::iagree:

 

We don't see tradition as equal with scripture, but tradition is important. Scripture trumps tradition rather than the other way around. We're doing the Catechism for Young Children, here is the section on the Fourth Commandment:

 

 

 

We see the early church gathering on the first day of the week in Acts, therefore not based on tradition but the Word of God.

 

Thank you for pointing that out. I forgot about that verse. And as in the other thread, I was going by my experience of churches that outright insist they do nothing by tradition.

[Lovedtodeath]

:iagree::iagree:

 

We don't see tradition as equal with scripture, but tradition is important. Scripture trumps tradition rather than the other way around. We're doing the Catechism for Young Children, here is the section on the Fourth Commandment:

 

 

 

We see the early church gathering on the first day of the week in Acts, therefore not based on tradition but the Word of God.

Thanks for that. I am highly interested in posts like this.

[mom2scouts]

We tried for many years to keep from having Sunday soccer games. Our Parks and Rec department has all games on Sunday, so we stayed at the YMCA for years before moving to Parks and Rec. They Y was much more expensive for less time and eventually stopped offering soccer at a close location. Club teams were even worse about Sunday games. We are still able to attend church since games are in the afternoon, but I hate that we have activities seven days a week. I know I don't have to let my children do everything they want, but allowing them to find and develop their passions is important to me.

[kristinannie]

We tried for many years to keep from having Sunday soccer games. Our Parks and Rec department has all games on Sunday, so we stayed at the YMCA for years before moving to Parks and Rec. They Y was much more expensive for less time and eventually stopped offering soccer at a close location. Club teams were even worse about Sunday games. We are still able to attend church since games are in the afternoon, but I hate that we have activities seven days a week. I know I don't have to let my children do everything they want, but allowing them to find and develop their passions is important to me.

 

 

This is my problem exactly. When I was a kid, we had soccer games on Saturday and that was it. Sunday was our family day. Now it seems like kids are so busy that even Sunday has to be filled with activities. This soccer situation that I am looking into has games on Sat and Sun every week. That means the entire weekend will be based around soccer. I am not willing to do that, especially since the games on Sunday are at 10am and that is during Sunday School with church starting at 11am. But at the same time, what if DS would love soccer? I hate that he can't play soccer because of his. This is the ONLY choice for soccer in our area. I played as a kid and loved it and I know he would love it too. We live in Southern WV which is very Christian. It just boggles my mind that this hasn't been a problem. I am sure that Orthodox and Jewish families have been dealing with this for years. I just don't see why a 5yo needs two games a week anyway!

[Dustybug]

We do our best, but could definitely do better. My DH has to work every other Sunday, mandatory for his job. We don't like it, but for now, it is what we have to do. Other than that on Sundays, I don't cook or clean. We usually go to church, come home and all nap together or go visit family and either go to the evening service at church as well or continue to just spend time together as a family. We go for "Sunday family drives" up into the mountains quite often and just enjoy each other.

[8circles]

It is an interesting fact to point out that the Protestants that claim not to follow any traditions and keep the Sabbath on Sunday are following a tradition set by the Catholic Church. The same is true for celebrating the Feast of the Nativity on December 25th.

 

Also note the difference between tradition & Tradition.

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

Also note the difference between tradition & Tradition.

 

Thanks again for pointing this out. Can you give me examples of traditions and Traditions? This will help me understand your POV more.