Government and State encroaching on our rights again!

[elegantlion]

It seems that you are trying to imply one has to come from the extreme left to find HSDLA to be an organization that uses scare-tactics and misrepresents the truth. I can assure you that is not the case. People from across the political spectrum, conservatives included, find their methods and tactics reprehensible.

 

Bill

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

One of the many issues I have with them is how they set themselves up to be the authority on homeschool laws. When you're trying to figure out a move you can go right to their website and see the laws for the state right?

 

Not all the information is complete. For instance in my state HSLDA does not list that our school year is runs from July to June. We are required to keep track of hours for our state. Officially our school year started yesterday. The state website clearly states this as a homeschool requirement. That could an issue for some people, depending upon how they structure their schooling. We don't have to report to anyone, but if records were checked it would clearly show them not in compliance with the STATE regulation.

 

Yes, I realize that is nitpicky, but if you're selling a legal protection product don't you think the consumer should be advised of ALL the laws of the state?

 

I always encourage people to check the state laws directly from the state's educational site, not HSLDA.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I do have a problem with requiring students to stay in school until 18.

As a spouse of a public school teacher, there are students in schools that you don't want to be there until then, even if your own children do not go to public school.

 

Just this past year he had two students arrested for murder. He knows he has drug dealers in his classes. There are many teen boys that have stayed in school because of the girls they can get while there. One student was 17 and had 2.5 credits. What on earth was he still doing there?

 

If states are going to require staying in school until 18, they should radically change the direction education is going. Everyone in our state is required to do a usual college prep track (4 Eng, 4 Math, 4 Science, 3-4 SS, 2 FL). You can't tell me that all kids can pass some of those classes.

 

They need to reinstate vocational training. It does exist, but it's nothing like it used to be. I've read articles recently about how we have too few skilled laborers in this country. I blame the high schools for moving to "everyone has to go to college". I think it's just a scam of the colleges to make more money and saddle young adults with debt.

 

Sorry for the rant. All this talk about education gets me going because I see what my dh has to endure. There's no common sense left in the system, and the kids care less and less.

I'm a big ol' liberal politically, but I do agree with the majority of what Amy wrote above (the driver's license law is already bad enough). I also live in Georgia, and I'm a former public school teacher.

 

I don't like the idea of the governement infringing upon my rights, but the HSLDA has an agenda - and anyone with an agenda can never be trusted. In the same way that I refuse to give my money to any church institution, I'm also not handing it over to HSLDA. Don't believe everything you read.

I agree with this as well.

[twoforjoy]

I was surprised when I read all the negative posts on this thread regarding the HSLDA. I'm not familiar with them...so I went over to their website to find out who they are. Now, I having finished reading through HSLDA's..."Who We Are" and "Frequently Asked Questions".. I see what all the negativity is really about. It seems that HSLDA is a fundamental conservative group that actually believes the Bible is the Word of God and is authoritative over all of life. I soppose that puts them under attack among some on this forum along with groups like "Answers in Genesis." I would definitely not take all the criticisim as correct information. I suspect the critics have their agenda as well.

 

Homeschoolers are a diverse group. The problem with the HSLDA is that they come in and presume to speak for all homeschoolers, even though they have a very clear, rigid, and narrow agenda, much of which has nothing to do with homeschooling.

 

My understanding is that they've also exerted a lot of pressure on state homeschooling organizations to switch from being inclusive to exclusive groups.

[WishboneDawn]

I was surprised when I read all the negative posts on this thread regarding the HSLDA. I'm not familiar with them...so I went over to their website to find out who they are. Now, I having finished reading through HSLDA's..."Who We Are" and "Frequently Asked Questions".. I see what all the negativity is really about. It seems that HSLDA is a fundamental conservative group that actually believes the Bible is the Word of God and is authoritative over all of life. I soppose that puts them under attack among some on this forum along with groups like "Answers in Genesis." I would definitely not take all the criticisim as correct information. I suspect the critics have their agenda as well.

 

The problem for me isn't really that they have that agenda. It's that they have that agenda and worldview but claim to speak for all homeschoolers. Add to that the alarmist emails and you have parents signing up in fear who's interests are actively undermined by the HSLDA and some of it's non-homeschooling interests.

 

When you hear people warn others abotu the HSLDA agenda it's not fueled by outrage that they have an agenda, it's a caution that their agenda might not square with yours and might even actively conflict with it. It's a caution that there's a disconnect between the image the HSLDA cultivates and it's actual actions.

 

If you've no issue with their agenda, that's fine. But anyone considerig membership should do a lot of homework.

[WishboneDawn]

I do not have an issue with an organization having an agenda. My concern with HSDLA is that its agenda is not entirely clear. I would love to have the peace of mind knowing that an experienced lawyer is just a phone call away, and I would be willing to pay for those services. But I am LDS, and I have heard that HSDLA may take my money but later choose not to defend me because of my religion. Honestly, I don't know if that is true or not. But there is enough of those sorts of accusations out there, that if it were not true, I would expect HSLDA to object. There are similar accusations of HSLDA refusing to defend unschoolers. On both points, HSLDA has not clarified their position.

 

Honestly, I don't have a problem with an organization only defending fundamentalist conservative Christians, or only classical or traditional homeschoolers--if they say that this is their mission. But they don't say it, one way or another, and that makes me wary.

 

I am not passionately against HSLDA like others in this thread--just cynical enough to stand back and watch HSLDA for a good long while before I give them my money.

 

There is wording on using a "thoughtful and intentional" program of instruction so I'd also be cautious if I was an unschooler. People forget that they don't have to represent you, even if you're a paid up member.

 

There is also wording excluding gay couples and those in civil unions.

 

The online form has you entering your payment information before any of the exclusive wording shows up. I find that troubling myself.

[radiobrain]

I said this before, but I could care less about their agenda as long as the people who are paying for their membership really understand what they are all about and their limitations.

 

I know of certain instances where they have worked against a state's HS freedoms to more closely align their idea of what HSing should be.

 

 

In our state, HSLDA usually wants members to give more information than required on notification forms, so that when those of us who believe in "minimal compliance" (and the fact that this keeps the rules and regs more "pure" and therefore flexible for everyone) run into problems with their school district. It has created a general state of confusion, where the SD starts asking for isbn numbers of books used and other nonsense that is not required. They say things like 'well, HSLDA supports this, so therefore it's ok'. Sorry, it's not ok.

 

There are other options (I don't remember them off-hand) that are trying to give the same protection without the political agenda. I would suggest looking into those as well, before signing up for HSLDA. They might be a better fit.

 

 

Well, I am a critic, not because they are a political/religious/agenda driven group. I am a critic because they usually tend to see things in a very narrow way that can potentially hurt my homeschool freedoms, not protect them. If they were all for HS freedom for all HSers, I would not care one bit.

Edited July 3, 2011 by radiobrain

[nmoira]

HSLDA does not speak for me -- They don't represent my views politically, academically, or socially. I bristle every time I see them purport to represent homeschoolers; even if they limited their lobbying to homeschool issues (they don't), they certainly don't represent unschoolers and have actively worked to undermine their rights on more than one occasion. They all too often make mountains out of molehills and typically do not credit state organizations in their declarations of victory (and have on occasion undermined those very organizations).

[melmichigan]

HSLDA does not speak for me -- They don't represent my views politically, academically, or socially. I bristle every time I see them purport to represent homeschoolers; even if they limited their lobbying to homeschool issues (they don't), they certainly don't represent unschoolers and have actively worked to undermine their rights on more than one occasion. They all too often make mountains out of molehills and typically do not credit state organizations in their declarations of victory (and have on occasion undermined those very organizations).

 

:iagree:

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

HSLDA does not speak for me -- They don't represent my views politically, academically, or socially. I bristle every time I see them purport to represent homeschoolers; even if they limited their lobbying to homeschool issues (they don't), they certainly don't represent unschoolers and have actively worked to undermine their rights on more than one occasion. They all too often make mountains out of molehills and typically do not credit state organizations in their declarations of victory (and have on occasion undermined those very organizations).

 

:iagree:

[campmom]

I lost respect for a lot of people with thier hslda bashing on this thread. HSLDA personally helped me 3 years after I was no longer a member(but had been when my child graduated) and was no longer paying them any money. Unless you have personally had dealings with them don't publicly bash them.

[radiobrain]

I lost respect for a lot of people with thier hslda bashing on this thread. HSLDA personally helped me 3 years after I was no longer a member(but had been when my child graduated) and was no longer paying them any money. Unless you have personally had dealings with them don't publicly bash them.

 

:confused: I wouldn't call any of these posts "bashing".

 

I am glad that they helped you. I know people who they did not.

 

I don't see why you have to personally have dealings with an organization to form an opinion and make a judgement about them. I am able to read their website, read emails that they send around, look at the actual laws they are referring to, and make a critical decision. I do not need to have any dealings with them to form my opinion. However, when an organization represents themselves as THE homeschooling rights group, and I have watched them attempt to undermine HS laws in different states, and I am a homeschooler and these actions can effect me, I guess I do have dealings with them.

 

The point that people who were "bashing" HSLDA were making is that not everyone agrees with them, their stances or their tactics. To take their ALERTS with a grain of salt, and do some research before flipping out. To realize that membership is not a garauntee of service if you need them.

 

These are opinions on a web forum. They are only whatever small bits people want to say about a subject. They are not a whole picture. How do you know that any of these posters didn't have dealings with them, and that has colored their opinion....much like your own experience has? I have every right to state my opinion on a subject, just like you do. You don't have to read them, and you certainly don't have to agree with them.

[Mimm]

I don't see why you have to personally have dealings with an organization to form an opinion and make a judgement about them. I am able to read their website, read emails that they send around, look at the actual laws they are referring to, and make a critical decision. I do not need to have any dealings with them to form my opinion.

 

:iagree: There are lots of people and organizations that I don't have personal dealings with but disagree with. If we followed the rule that you couldn't speak against someone unless they personally affected you, people wouldn't be able to speak out against many of the injustices in the world.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

:confused: I wouldn't call any of these posts "bashing".

 

I am glad that they helped you. I know people who they did not.

 

I don't see why you have to personally have dealings with an organization to form an opinion and make a judgement about them. I am able to read their website, read emails that they send around, look at the actual laws they are referring to, and make a critical decision. I do not need to have any dealings with them to form my opinion. However, when an organization represents themselves as THE homeschooling rights group, and I have watched them attempt to undermine HS laws in different states, and I am a homeschooler and these actions can effect me, I guess I do have dealings with them.

 

The point that people who were "bashing" HSLDA were making is that not everyone agrees with them, their stances or their tactics. To take their ALERTS with a grain of salt, and do some research before flipping out. To realize that membership is not a garauntee of service if you need them.

 

These are opinions on a web forum. They are only whatever small bits people want to say about a subject. They are not a whole picture. How do you know that any of these posters didn't have dealings with them, and that has colored their opinion....much like your own experience has? I have every right to state my opinion on a subject, just like you do. You don't have to read them, and you certainly don't have to agree with them.

 

:iagree:

[NittanyJen]

I can be very frustrated that this group takes stances and voices opinions with which I do not agree 'on behalf of homeschoolers.'. Nobody gave them that authority-- certainly not a majority of homeschoolers. Their claims should clearly state that they represent (their views) only their membership base, and not the HS population in general.

 

I am glad that you received help when you needed it. That is a good thing, and nobody can take it from you. I can still dislike a group claiming to represent my interests when it often does not. I would find it very disheartening that someone could find a lack of respect in a person for forming their own opinions instead of trusting in a group with which they disagree!

 

 

Jen

[WishboneDawn]

I lost respect for a lot of people with thier hslda bashing on this thread. HSLDA personally helped me 3 years after I was no longer a member(but had been when my child graduated) and was no longer paying them any money. Unless you have personally had dealings with them don't publicly bash them.

 

No one's saying they don't help some people. People are simply pointing out they don't represent all homeschoolers and any homeschooler considering membership should take a very close look at them before spending $100 a year.

 

Of course they help some parents. That was never even questioned. :confused:

[Spy Car]

No one's saying they don't help some people. People are simply pointing out they don't represent all homeschoolers and any homeschooler considering membership should take a very close look at them before spending $100 a year.

 

Of course they help some parents. That was never even questioned. :confused:

 

They also engage in fear-mongering tactics and put out misleading alerts that deliberately misrepresent the truth in order to fuel anger and stoke the paranoia that gets money coming in.

 

Bill

[imhim]

I think many people have a lot of trust in the government -HSLDA and my family don't. I do not see any reason to trust the government, especially when it walks all over parents rights.

 

Yes, HSLDA is "narrow" and rigid, if you want to call it this way - so is the Bible teaching, so is the path to Heaven. There is no way around it, it is narrow and straight. Truth is not flexible or bendable. Of course they are this way, they do not hide their beliefs or stands.

 

Whenever we get alerts, they are true, at least in our state. HSLDA works with the local legal arm in many ways. They are a blessing here, and the great majority of homeschoolers I know personally are thankful for them.

 

You do not have to use them or pay the fee or anything. They talk for homeschoolers - a lot of them. If they don't talk for you, call or email and tell them that you do not agree with their stand. What good does it do to bash them here when you could go directly to them and ask them about whatever complaint you are having with them?

[kiana]

1) There is a difference between bashing them and saying 'Before you pay your membership, you should make sure you're okay with the rest of their agenda.' I am not okay with their non-homeschooling agenda, and I will never pay them money.

 

2) Being a public organization means exposing oneself to criticism and comments, both positive and negative. Why should criticism be hidden? Why is it not okay to say 'I disagree with their stance on x, and I think they are excessively alarmist' on a message board? What good would it do to tell them this? They have their reasons for their beliefs, and I have mine. They are not going to change because of what I say, and I'm not going to adhere to their viewpoint either.

 

3) This is not a black-and-white issue. It's not 'either you trust HSLDA, or you trust the government'. I assure you that it's completely possible to distrust more than one group at the same time. :)

[nmoira]

Yes, HSLDA is "narrow" and rigid, if you want to call it this way - so is the Bible teaching, so is the path to Heaven. There is no way around it, it is narrow and straight. Truth is not flexible or bendable. Of course they are this way, they do not hide their beliefs or stannd the great majority of homeschoolers I know personally are thankful for them.

Your truth. Your god.

 

Could you please direct me to the page on HSLDA's site which breaks down exactly how much money is spent lobbying on issues unrelated to homeschooling?

 

You do not have to use them or pay the fee or anything. They talk for homeschoolers - a lot of them. If they don't talk for you, call or email and tell them that you do not agree with their stand. What good does it do to bash them here when you could go directly to them and ask them about whatever complaint you are having with them?

I sincerely doubt HSLDA cares what I think, given that we don't see eye-to-eye on the "truth" issue.

 

I have a right to state my opinion. If my doing so in an honest and forthright manner is "bashing," then I'm at a loss as to how any meaningful discussion can take place without "bashing."

[Classically Minded]

I was just reading over the responses to this thread and amazed at all the speculation. Where is the proof because all I'm hearing is defamation against HSLDA. Why would you seek to tear down the image of a business with your nonfactual statements? That is so distasteful and childish.

 

If you had actual proof or evidence that is factual then I could understand such, but pure speculation and tearing down a business publicly on this forum with supposed truths is just plain wrong.

[Lily_Grace]

I was just reading over the responses to this thread and amazed at all the speculation. Where is the proof because all I'm hearing is defamation against HSLDA. Why would you seek to tear down the image of a business with your nonfactual statements? That is so distasteful and childish.

 

If you had actual proof or evidence that is factual then I could understand such, but pure speculation and tearing down a business publicly on this forum with supposed truths is just plain wrong.

 

 

What are you referencing? Could you quote the posts you claim are speculating and libelous?

[nmoira]

What are you referencing? Could you quote the posts you claim are speculating and libelous?

 

:bigear:

[AvasMom]

What are you referencing? Could you quote the posts you claim are speculating and libelous?

 

:iagree::bigear::glare: I would also like to ask the PP to please type out the definition for "defamation" 10 times and use it correctly in a sentence. Then she can go sit in the timeout chair with the posters who consistently use "freedom of speech" incorrectly.

[ozarkmom]

They are fear-mongers and truth-benders. And many (most?) of their activities go towards causes that have nothing to do with home education and everything to do with promoting their extreme political views. This is their standard MO (modus operandi for you Latin fans :D)

 

I wouldn't give them a nickel.

 

Bill

 

Much of the main stream media fits into this category, but that doesn't stop me from watching the news and I pay for cable to watch the darn stuff. :lol:

Besides, your children are in public school aren't they? If so, why would you advise a HS'er to not give a nickel to them? That makes no sense to me, b/c it's a non-viable option for you.:glare:

 

I've been an HSLDA member for 14 years and I'll keep my membership with them. I may not follow every report or "fall" for every report, but they are there to bail me out of a bind with a stinkin' social worker and they have given me sound advice on HSing matters over the years. That's peace of mind for me.

 

As with anything including HSLDA and the Internet-- eat the fish, spit out the bones.

 

Just my $.02 for what it's worth.

[ozarkmom]

Arghh! Clauses or not... how about NO more extraneous laws!!!! Do we really need anymore for every single area of our lives? There are so many these days that it's possible to be breaking laws without even knowing it. It's like sticking your hand it hot water, if it's done slowly, you won't feel the burn. Agree or disagree with HSLDA, I am glad to know someone is looking over my shoulder to see what's comming up behind me!!!!!

 

:iagree: