What's the point of POINTS (weightwatchers points that is)? Why not count calories?

[BethG]

I'm chunky and need to shed some poundage. I've been to ww online and it looked so inviting, but I'm questioning WHY NOT JUST COUNT CALORIES? Isn't this much more complicated? What's the "pay off" for making it more complicated? What's the advantage of this?

 

You have to look up and plug in 4 factors per item ingested (calories, fat, fiber and protein).......so isn't this 4x the work? If you're going to TRACK something, why not just simplify it and merely count calories? Besides,

the fat/carbs/protein are just different forms of energy (calories).

 

Can someone please explain this?

[snickelfritz]

Because calories don't tell you the whole story about the nutritional value of food. Choice "A" may have more calories, but less fat, and more fiber than choice "B." Is choice "B" necessarily better, because it has fewer calories?

[EthiopianFood]

I don't know how much the new point system varies from the old, but essentially, a food is given fewer points if it has more fiber, and more points if it has more fat. It gives you the choice of what to eat, but subtly encourages you to choose more healthful foods.

 

ETA: I see you have protein listed. I would assume protein has fewer points as well. And WRT calories=calories, fiber doesn't give you energy, and increases fullness, so that wouldn't apply.

[NanceXToo]

Because not all calories are equal when it comes to nutritional value.

[kwickimom]

I counted calories ofor over a year and lost 60 some pounds, but I hit a plateau that lasted like 4 to 6 months and so I switched to WW and starting losing again. With WW I am making way healthier choices because I need to factor in fat, carbs, and protein. WW really tries to focus on healthy alternatives and more fruits and veggies. I used to eat very carby and now I have swapped some of that out with fruits and veggies and I am losing weight and feeling better!

[kamom]

To reaffirm what has been said, it does teach you how to make healthier food choices. DH has lost around 50 lbs with WW and he tried calorie counting for many years. He would lose and then gain it again. This has taught him a lot about good nutrition and helped keep the weight off. He plans on being a life long WWer.

 

To help with the program. It gets easier the longer you use it.You don't have to add all the info unless you can't find the food in their program. If you can't find it, you can add it once and add it favorites so next time it has all the info there for you. You can also make a snack combo that you often eat and save it as a favorite. Next time just add it with one click.

 

HTH

[JudoMom]

The reasons here make sense, but I wanted to let you know that I lost over 85 pounds in 2006 just by counting calories and exercises. I kept it all off until 2010, when I put 15 back on because of a autoimmune liver condition and related meds. I'm now off the medicine that was hindering weight loss, so I'm working on losing it.

[Dmmetler]

You can also tweak it a bit. I count calories, but don't include those from low carb fruits/veggies in my daily count.

[Peela]

I read an article about it and it made sense to me- psychologically, dealing with points is dealing with much smaller numbers and we as humans tend to prefer to be dealing with our 29 points rather than our 1200 calories or whatever it is.

I can relate to that.

Also, with WW you get the sense that you are doing it with a community even if you are just using the online version.

[DianeW88]

You're assuming that Points = calories. They do not. The Point system encompasses so much more. You actually will probably eat MORE calories on the Point system AND lose more weight than if you just counted calories alone. I always have 10-15 pounds of excess weight I manage to accumulate over the winter each year (yes, I overeat from Halloween to Valentine's Day :lol:). I lose it every spring with WW in less than a month. It's a GREAT system!!

[AvasMom]

I read an article about it and it made sense to me- psychologically, dealing with points is dealing with much smaller numbers and we as humans tend to prefer to be dealing with our 29 points rather than our 1200 calories or whatever it is.

I can relate to that.

Also, with WW you get the sense that you are doing it with a community even if you are just using the online version.

 

That makes sense. I know when counting calories I think about how I have HUNDREDS of calories to spend and get a little too free with them. With points I *only* have 29 so tend to be a lot more conservative.

[DB in NJ]

If you are disciplined enough to count calories and make sensible choices in your eating, then there is no reason to join WW or any other weight loss thing.

 

Companies are making millions over the re-packaging of simple science:

 

1. calories out must be more than calories in in order to lose weight.

2. those calories that go in? make them count. don't eat garbage.

3. move your body. we were made to work. you don't have to turn into an olympian; just find something you enjoy and do it most days of the week.

 

Having said all that, if you can't discipline yourself, then by all means join. I just hate paying money to someone for them to tell me what I already know.

 

I've lost 25 pounds in the last year. It's very slow going, but I've found what works for me, and I'd rather stay on this path than change my entire life for "quick" weight loss (which doesn't last anyway).

 

My advice: make a list of your bad health habits. (after all, this really is about health, weight loss is an added benefit). Pick ONE habit to change. Work on only that one for a week or two and then pick another habit to change. You might even want to pick the EASIEST habit to break first -- it gives you a feeling of achievement right off the bat. But don't change more than 1 habit at a time or you'll get overwhelmed.

 

It's worked for me. Let me know if you have any questions.

[angela in ohio]

I read an article about it and it made sense to me- psychologically, dealing with points is dealing with much smaller numbers and we as humans tend to prefer to be dealing with our 29 points rather than our 1200 calories or whatever it is.

I can relate to that.

Also, with WW you get the sense that you are doing it with a community even if you are just using the online version.

 

Yep. Once you know the points, it is easy to keep those relatively small numbers in mind and add them up.

 

I lost a lot of weight after third dc many years ago just by counting calories. WW also restricts calories. Really, ANY diet that restricts calories in some way will cause youto lose wieght. It's just about choosing what works for your brain. :001_smile:

 

The old Points system was more closely tied to calories than the new PointsPlus. I liked that, because if all else failed, I could guesstimate one point per 50 calories. That doesn't work anymore. :glare:

[AvasMom]

Having said all that, if you can't discipline yourself, then by all means join.

 

Wow. Just...wow.

[Alicia64]

I'm chunky and need to shed some poundage. I've been to ww online and it looked so inviting, but I'm questioning WHY NOT JUST COUNT CALORIES? Isn't this much more complicated? What's the "pay off" for making it more complicated? What's the advantage of this?

 

You have to look up and plug in 4 factors per item ingested (calories, fat, fiber and protein).......so isn't this 4x the work? If you're going to TRACK something, why not just simplify it and merely count calories? Besides,

the fat/carbs/protein are just different forms of energy (calories).

 

Can someone please explain this?

 

I've kept 48 lbs. off for five years. It took me five years with a twin pg in between.

 

YES on points -- your goal is to internalize, internalize, internalize the points system into your very being.

 

Sounds extreme, I know, but it's sad how many of us (I include me) will say over and over, I will do ANYTHING to lose weight!!"

 

But, boy, the minute something "complicated" rolls around like counting points and we balk.

 

This is the thinking you need to change. And it will take your years to fully turn your thinking around.

 

Five years later I still find myself doing thing that will disrupt all that I've worked so hard for.

 

Believe me: CHANGING YOUR THINKING ABOUT FOOD is EVERYTHING.

 

And, I'm trying to be helpful -- I'm not trying to be rude.

 

There's nothing un-complicated about having your clothes not fit, feeling like a sausage in tight clothing when you're supposed to be having fun w/ your kids, but your clothes are too tight etc. etc.

 

Count your points!!!

 

And if you ever want more of this -- I have plenty!

 

Alley

[OH_Homeschooler]

I think it simplifies calorie counting. It is hard to be exact when counting calories and there really is no need to be exact.

 

I think so too! It is a little hard at first but so is counting calories. You tend to eat a lot of the same food over time so it's not really that bad once you get used to it.

 

Honestly, if you are counting every single calorie, you have to count calories in fruits and veggies. Most fruits and veggies are 0 points, so what's easier than that? And since those are easy you eat more of them, which should be the point, no? (And a big reason why there was the recent change to PointsPlus...to encourage people to eat BETTER calories, not just FEWER calories).

 

 

If you are disciplined enough to count calories and make sensible choices in your eating, then there is no reason to join WW or any other weight loss thing.

 

I don't know if "disciplined" is the right word. Years ago, before I was married and had kids I was "disciplined" enough to lose weight by counting calories and exercising. I lost more than 50 lbs, kept it off for years too. Until...I got married and had kids.

 

I joined WW after having kids because my attempts to do it on my own were unsuccessful. It wasn't about discipline, it was about needing more of a support system since I spend my life being my family's support system. It was about the fact that I didn't bother to spend any time on myself anymore.

 

And I enjoy WW meetings. The members at my meeting are sarcastic and hilarious. I need a reason to weigh myself each week to prevent a quick weight gain. And you pick up a lot of tips to simplify your plan.

[Alicia64]

If you are disciplined enough to count calories and make sensible choices in your eating, then there is no reason to join WW or any other weight loss thing.

 

Gosh, I have to very kindly and politely totally disagree. I've kept 48 lbs. off for five years. I'm feel I'm an elder in this arena and have a right to speak. :001_smile:

 

Our society is so wealthy in bad food that we're constantly bombarded with eat! eat! eat! Without help it's not likely that anyone can keep the weight off for long. And the stats prove it. Sadly. (And, no, I don't work for WW.)

 

There are ways to do WW without spending a fortune. And, don't ever forget that we spend a fortune getting heavy, but balk at spending any money to lose weight.

 

I needed the help. I really did. And I'm an organized, "together" person who simply went from a chunky teen to a chubby 20-something to a small watermelon in my 30's.

 

I SO internalized WW over the years that I went that I no longer visit, but I was/am still fully prepared to visit each week for the rest of my life. (I do go back about once a year for some refresher.)

 

Wearing size 8 pants. Not feeling the least bit bad on the beach or pool in a suit. Being able to deal well with a buffet full of treats. Weight Watchers and all of it's "complications" was/is SO WORTH IT.

 

Alley

[Guest]

The reasons here make sense, but I wanted to let you know that I lost over 85 pounds in 2006 just by counting calories and exercises. I kept it all off until 2010, when I put 15 back on because of a autoimmune liver condition and related meds. I'm now off the medicine that was hindering weight loss, so I'm working on losing it.

 

I just wanted to encourage you. You have been such an inspiration to me. I know you've been going through a lot and so I just want to give you a :grouphug: and cheer you on. Praying for you!

[DB in NJ]

Sorry, just offering my .02 as a former Weight Watchers leader. YMMV.

 

I stopped working for them and endorsing them when we'd get the new "roll-out" every year (i.e. the latest and greatest changes to the program). It's all about the money, folks. Sorry. Our nutritional needs and the plain and simple science of calories in vs. calories out do not change.

[JudoMom]

I just wanted to encourage you. You have been such an inspiration to me. I know you've been going through a lot and so I just want to give you a :grouphug: and cheer you on. Praying for you!

 

Thanks Monica :grouphug:!

[DB in NJ]

Wow. Just...wow.

 

I believe you're reading me wrong. Whatever works to get people healthy, I'm all for it. Some people need the outward support from leaders and/or groups of people who they are accountable to. Others do not. It IS self-discipline either way; I was simply saying that if she can't do it alone, then by all means, join a group. Sorry if I offended you with the way I worded it.

[AvasMom]

Gosh, I have to very kindly and politely totally disagree. I've kept 48 lbs. off for five years. I'm feel I'm an elder in this arena and have a right to speak. :001_smile:

 

Our society is so wealthy in bad food that we're constantly bombarded with eat! eat! eat! Without help it's not likely that anyone can keep the weight off for long. And the stats prove it. Sadly. (And, no, I don't work for WW.)

 

There are ways to do WW without spending a fortune. And, don't ever forget that we spend a fortune getting heavy, but balk at spending any money to lose weight.

 

I needed the help. I really did. And I'm an organized, "together" person who simply went from a chunky teen to a chubby 20-something to a small watermelon in my 30's.

 

I SO internalized WW over the years that I went that I no longer visit, but I was/am still fully prepared to visit each week for the rest of my life. (I do go back about once a year for some refresher.)

 

Wearing size 8 pants. Not feeling the least bit bad on the beach or pool in a suit. Being able to deal well with a buffet full of treats. Weight Watchers and all of it's "complications" was/is SO WORTH IT.

 

Alley

 

:iagree: I'm an extremely organized, disciplined person but WW is what is working for me. The idea that someone choosing a different tool than someone else is "undisciplined" was jaw-dropping to me. lol!

[DB in NJ]

Gosh, I have to very kindly and politely totally disagree. I've kept 48 lbs. off for five years. I'm feel I'm an elder in this arena and have a right to speak. :001_smile:

 

Our society is so wealthy in bad food that we're constantly bombarded with eat! eat! eat! Without help it's not likely that anyone can keep the weight off for long. And the stats prove it. Sadly. (And, no, I don't work for WW.)

 

There are ways to do WW without spending a fortune. And, don't ever forget that we spend a fortune getting heavy, but balk at spending any money to lose weight.

 

I needed the help. I really did. And I'm an organized, "together" person who simply went from a chunky teen to a chubby 20-something to a small watermelon in my 30's.

 

I SO internalized WW over the years that I went that I no longer visit, but I was/am still fully prepared to visit each week for the rest of my life. (I do go back about once a year for some refresher.)

 

Wearing size 8 pants. Not feeling the least bit bad on the beach or pool in a suit. Being able to deal well with a buffet full of treats. Weight Watchers and all of it's "complications" was/is SO WORTH IT.

 

Alley

 

I agree! I'm not quite sure what you're disagreeing with though....I said if you are someone who NEEDS group support, then by all means, join. There are plenty of people who successfully lose weight without ever joining though. And there are (probably) even more people who lose weight successfully with WW or another company only to put it back on (and more) when they stop going.

 

Like I said before, whatever works. Having been a weight watchers leader, I wouldn't recommend them though. Way too many changes all at once (among other issues I have with them).

[AvasMom]

I believe you're reading me wrong. Whatever works to get people healthy, I'm all for it. Some people need the outward support from leaders and/or groups of people who they are accountable to. Others do not. It IS self-discipline either way; I was simply saying that if she can't do it alone, then by all means, join a group. Sorry if I offended you with the way I worded it.

 

No problem. Thanks for clarifying. The word choice gave the whole post an entirely different meaning. :)

[angela in ohio]

Sorry, just offering my .02 as a former Weight Watchers leader. YMMV.

 

I stopped working for them and endorsing them when we'd get the new "roll-out" every year (i.e. the latest and greatest changes to the program). It's all about the money, folks. Sorry. Our nutritional needs and the plain and simple science of calories in vs. calories out do not change.

 

I would hope so, as they aren't a non-profit organization, but a business. I doubt anyone here is silly enough to think any differently, and we can rationally choose whether to use their services (pay them money) or not, depending on whether having their support helps us achieve our goals. :001_smile:

[OH_Homeschooler]

Sorry, just offering my .02 as a former Weight Watchers leader. YMMV.

 

I stopped working for them and endorsing them when we'd get the new "roll-out" every year (i.e. the latest and greatest changes to the program). It's all about the money, folks. Sorry. Our nutritional needs and the plain and simple science of calories in vs. calories out do not change.

 

I get that, and at times I have wondered why I'm spending money to be told what I already know what to do. But that's not actually what I'm paying for it turns out. It's being accountable to someone, it's the fact that I hate to waste money, it's the companionship. So I'm okay with spending the money.

 

But I disagree that the science doesn't change. It is constantly changing, that is the nature of science. Knowledge builds on itself. There weren't yearly roll-outs since I joined in 2007. There was a change in the name of the program I believe, but the Points values didn't change. You didn't have to spend a dime to keep up with the program.

 

The program did change right before the New Year and WW had a lot of explaining to do, and they did it very well I believe. Before, you could eat a 100 calorie apple or a 100 calorie pack full of no real nutrients, and both would be 2 Points. Based on the new science, the 100 calorie pack is worth 3 and the apple is worth 0. Which do you think is better for you? Which will keep you fuller longer? Technically both are 100 calories but you know that the apple is the better choice. WW is now designed to reward that choice.

[Alicia64]

Having been a weight watchers leader, I wouldn't recommend them though. Way too many changes all at once (among other issues I have with them).

 

Not to complicate the discussion, but I understand and agree with what you're saying here. WW is a business. Yes. They did a roll out in Jan. and I haven't been back. I'm very comfortable with however we were counting points back in '01 -- I still do it. I'm not buying new gadgets and learning new ways.

 

HOWEVER, for someone just getting started I think WW is the way to begin this lifelong process.

 

But, yes, WW is a business. If it weren't, though, they wouldn't be there for us to use.

 

I get caught up with being annoyed at them and appreciating them for the great program they taught me.

 

I say, "take the good and leave the bad." That's what I did.

 

Alley

[BethG]

If you are disciplined enough to count calories and make sensible choices in your eating, then there is no reason to join WW or any other weight loss thing.

 

Companies are making millions over the re-packaging of simple science:

 

1. calories out must be more than calories in in order to lose weight.

2. those calories that go in? make them count. don't eat garbage.

3. move your body. we were made to work. you don't have to turn into an olympian; just find something you enjoy and do it most days of the week.

 

Having said all that, if you can't discipline yourself, then by all means join. I just hate paying money to someone for them to tell me what I already know.

 

I've lost 25 pounds in the last year. It's very slow going, but I've found what works for me, and I'd rather stay on this path than change my entire life for "quick" weight loss (which doesn't last anyway).

 

My advice: make a list of your bad health habits. (after all, this really is about health, weight loss is an added benefit). Pick ONE habit to change. Work on only that one for a week or two and then pick another habit to change. You might even want to pick the EASIEST habit to break first -- it gives you a feeling of achievement right off the bat. But don't change more than 1 habit at a time or you'll get overwhelmed.

 

It's worked for me. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

I don't know what all the mini-rebukes to Db in NJ are about; she made some benign comments about a basic fact. Some people lack the self-discipline to restrict their energy intake on their own. (haven't we established this with our obesity numbers in this country?). For some(many), they lack the self-discipline (INTERNAL locus of control, to borrow the psych term vs. having an EXTERNAL locus of control).

 

Those who need help eating appropriate amounts of food (energy) may need to rely on external helps (meetings for that EXTERNAL support). It's a good thing to admit which camp you're in and to get the support you need if you can't go it alone -- but her comments weren't putting down those who fall into that camp.

 

All I heard DB in NJ say was that some folks can't take the info and apply it("it" being whatever mechanism/plan for getting your energy in/out balanced) alone and have the sole INTERNAL (self) ability to make the sensible choices without that external support.

 

I understand that we don't like being told that excessive eating is about a lack of self control, do we? I for one don't like being out of SELF-control with my eating. In former days, it was called having TEMPERENCE. But one may retort....."Beth, there are many factors that lead one to overeat such as emotional turmoil, stress, etc." And to that I'd say, well it still all boils down to lacking the self control to decline to overeat in spite of those issues/factors. Sure there are many factors that go into increasing the desire to overeat and to not exercise.

 

I, for one, know how to eat healthily (don't we all by now...I mean don't we all have a basic idea of what is and isn't healthy by now!?!?!), but I have heretofore lacked the SELF CONTROL to eat the appropriate amount of food. But, were I to exercise some self control and quit drinking Canada Dry Ginger Ale by the 1/2 gallons, I'd loose this blubber! So, for me, my only VICE is my Ginger Ale and if I can just get these companies to quit making it then ....... well, ok.....if I can just quit drinking it, then I don't need help with the healthy stuff as I eat my 10+ servings of fruits/veg a day.

 

But, for me, I know going to a meeting isn't going to help me give up my Ginger Ale -- I know what I have to do and I just have to do it.

 

So...for those of us who eat healthily (minus the ginger ale) why not just count calories? I hear many of the responses talking about how the points lend to HEALTHY choices. For me, that's covered. My issue is energy (calories), so ====== why points again?

 

I don't get the smaller numbers issue. Do you mean that by the time i internalize/memorize these numbers for the foods that I usually ingest, that it's just easier to memorize the single digits that the three digits?

[AvasMom]

Based on the new science, the 100 calorie pack is worth 3 and the apple is worth 0. Which do you think is better for you? Which will keep you fuller longer? Technically both are 100 calories but you know that the apple is the better choice. WW is now designed to reward that choice.

 

:iagree: When I was counting calories I was also keeping track of my protein and my carbohydrates as well as making sure I had at least 5 fruits and veggies a day. It was a juggle making sure all the numbers were where I wanted them to be. With points now I just keep a basic mental tally of how many protein servings and carb servings I have as well as checking the healthy checkmark section on etools. I like the points takes all the nutrients into consideration. It's a lot less work for me than tracking calories as well as all my nutrients.

[mmasmommy]

I have to say being on WW made me angry. The amount of points I had seemed so small and by mid-afternoon I'd be close to out. At that point I'd just say screw it and eat what I wanted. I realize this was a personal accountability issue but it just didn't work for me. (and I tried 3 times)

 

What helped me was setting a goal that was not weight related. I decided to run a 1/2 marathon. In order to do that I needed to get healthy. I counted calories, changed my diet, and trained. In 6 months I lost 24 lbs, hit my goal weight, and completed the 1/2. Changing the focus from the weight to getting healthy was just what I needed to make the switch.

[DB in NJ]

But I disagree that the science doesn't change. It is constantly changing, that is the nature of science.

 

Calories in being less than calories out is the science I was talking about. If you take in more energy than you put out, you'll gain weight. Always has been, always will be. Quality nutrition and what our "food" is made of is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

 

Before, you could eat a 100 calorie apple or a 100 calorie pack full of no real nutrients, and both would be 2 Points. Based on the new science, the 100 calorie pack is worth 3 and the apple is worth 0. Which do you think is better for you? Which will keep you fuller longer? Technically both are 100 calories but you know that the apple is the better choice. WW is now designed to reward that choice.

 

Ah, this is proving my point! Don't we all already KNOW that an apple -- a natural, God-made food -- is HEALTHIER than a 100 Calorie pack of cheese dust? This isn't "new science"; it's weight watchers yet again changing their plan to reward healthier eating. A change in policy does not new science make.

 

Believe me, if joining weight watchers helps people to live healthier and make better choices, then I'm all for it. I'm simply saying that there are other ways to do it that are (imo) more realistic AND long-lasting.

 

I'd love to know what others think about the rest of my post. Changing one behavior or one habit at a time. Any thoughts on that? For me, that was the BIGGEST objection I had to any of the weight loss "programs" out there. Too many overwhelming life changes at once.

[DB in NJ]

Wow.....I'm touched. Thank you for understanding :) And welcome to the boards!