Mike Rowe testifies before the Senate.

[Elaine]

And here I thought I couldn't love Mike more. :001_wub:

 

:iagree:

 

We have been encouraging our boys to choose blue collar jobs over white ones for this very reason. Our family is made up of very successful blue collar business owners. I would be extremely proud to day that my son is a plumber.:D

[Audrey]

Loved everything he had to say.

 

There is at least one entire generation (if not two) who were raised with the idea that physical labour was "beneath them." If they wanted a "good job" it meant a desk job or white collar professional job. Anything that remotely smacked of physical work was demeaned. It is now expected that all kids should (will) go to college or university to get a degree to get a "good job." I see this all over. What's most disheartening is to see it coming from farmers. Quite frankly, it disgusts me to see farm kids who think it's beneath them to get their hands dirty doing real work.

 

I'll be blunt and say that I think the average young person today is stupid -- yes, I said stupid. The fact of the matter is that the average high school graduate is too stupid to meet the demands of university level work. So, the universities lower the expectations, lest they lose paying customers. Then, the next class comes along a little bit dumber than previous ones, and expectations are lowered yet again. All the while, universities and the general public are still demeaning physical labour jobs in favour of that piece of certified university paper. Hah. It is the most unfunny joke ever played on us.

 

I frequently work with companies who are begging for qualified tradesmen. Their complaint is that young people either aren't interested in the trades or are too stupid to make it through the courses. I definitely agree with the "too stupid" part of it. Sure, there are some bright young people coming out of the public school system, but far, far too many are barely literate and have very little work ethic.

 

I encourage young people to consider the trades. Those who have even a smidgen of work ethic are not bothered by the work aspect of it. Those with even a hint of entrepreneurial spirit are attracted by the possibilities of being their own boss if they chose. Those who have a real sense of the world are able to see all of the opportunities it can afford them.

 

Now, if the schools would just encourage and support education along with the vocational arts instead of all the other cr*p they spew, there might be more bright kids out there to take on the challenge of the trades. And, if parents and the general public would get off the "university is everything" propaganda wagon, we might stand a chance of bringing the economy back to its former glory.

Edited May 18, 2011 by Audrey

[justamouse]

I frequently work with companies who are begging for qualified tradesmen. Their complaint is that young people either aren't interested in the trades or are too stupid to make it through the courses. I definitely agree with the "too stupid" part of it. Sure, there are some bright young people coming out of the public school system, but far, far too many are barely literate and have very little work ethic.

 

 

I love your whole post, but this especially I've found to be true.

[vonfirmath]

OP, thanks for the article. Very interesting. Now, the plumbers and electricians I can see. However, I know plenty of out-of-work carpenters. None of them can afford to support their families so their wives are working low-paying jobs to keep the lights on and food on the table.

 

My BIL was an out of work carpenter until he took a job doing estimating work at the university. Sure, he supplements by making custom cabinetry, etc. But it does not support the family.

[Sue G in PA]

Mike Rowe went to my high school. :D

[fairfarmhand]

Mike Rowe went to my high school. :D

gasp!!!

[Sue G in PA]

He graduated years before me, though. :D

[MrsBasil]

Interesting, my DH is a truck driver and he is always saying the small amount of diesel mechanics around here makes things interesting if a smaller company has problems with multiple trucks at one time.

 

Another though, I don't know that trucking is a skilled trade, but when DH was laid off a short time ago, he put out a ton of resumes for driving jobs. He has always maintained a great driving record, his commercial license, and all possible endorsements.

 

We have a huge amount of unemployment right now. I have friends with husband's who have been out of work for a year or more. My DH got 5 or 6 callbacks within a week. He had several interviews and 2 offers within 2 weeks.

 

His previous job was management. He worked 60-80 hour weeks routinely and at salary. He's now paid hourly. He might get OT right now(it's actually a given), and is working long hours, but he's well paid for those hours. He has days off. No more calls if someone is sick, someone doesn't want to do their job, blah, blah, blah. He gets called asking if he can work X or not. He has a regular schedule.

 

It's true that not everyone is willing or can live on the amount he gets paid, but for right now, for us, it's totally worth it. Which makes it all the funnier to me when I hear people denigrate truckers or trucking jobs. The one person who really thought that type of job was beneath her, but lately keeps telling me how nice my DH's work schedule is. Yep!

[Lovedtodeath]

Around here the men I know who work in the trades (plumbing, carpentry, electrician, HVAC) all deal with regular lay offs during the down season and uncertain income. They have pension/health insurance through the union and a guaranteed wage, but there isn't enough work to keep everyone going year round so their families are very close to the margin financially unless they rise to 'white collar' positions within the trades such as management (which can also require an additional degree).

My husband works in construction. The housing market is down.:001_huh: He frequently gets his pay checks held for a month or two because the company is out of money. He is in danger of losing his job at least once a year. It is very stressful. We also have no company benefits at all. No retirement account, no health insurance, etc. On top of that he has all of the stress of a "white collar" position in the company and he does all of the hard labor and his body can't take much more. He wants our kids to have college degrees because hard labor isn't always possible as one gets older.

[Lovedtodeath]

I don't disagree that the military benefits are often better.

 

What I was protesting was some articles and comments I've recently read that state (not even suggest, but outright say) that today's teens are incapable of doing hard work. As in physically unable to do it.

 

I will agree that they are not well prepared. But I don't think that we're growing teens with fewer arms and legs or brains that cannot learn. We are choosing to not teach them how to use their arms and legs; and we're choosing to not teach them to read, calculate and reason.

 

I'm not sure that I think unionization is the panacea. There is plenty going on within the union behemoth that I dislike. I do think that saying American's won't do something, so let's pay someone else under the table for it or let's get it made in China is going to be our downfall.

 

(I don't really understand, for example, why people in trades most harmed by off the books workers who keep trade wages low continue to support policies and politicians committed to keeping the flow of these illegal workers undiminished. But I'm trying not to derail a discussion of the honorability of hard work into something about one political party or the other. Because there is plenty to rail at from the party I vote for in this matter too.)

Like

[twoforjoy]

There is at least one entire generation (if not two) who were raised with the idea that physical labour was "beneath them." If they wanted a "good job" it meant a desk job or white collar professional job. Anything that remotely smacked of physical work was demeaned. It is now expected that all kids should (will) go to college or university to get a degree to get a "good job." I see this all over. What's most disheartening is to see it coming from farmers. Quite frankly, it disgusts me to see farm kids who think it's beneath them to get their hands dirty doing real work.

 

But is that because we've seen so many jobs requiring physical labor disappear?

 

My FIL has always done factory work. He was absolutely, completely adamant that my DH go to college. Anything else would not have been acceptable. Why? Because my FIL had several factories he worked at close down and move overseas, and so to him manual labor meant economic insecurity. When he was growing up, having a college degree meant job security and a good salary (which it absolutely doesn't mean any more), and so that's what he wanted for his child. My husband wishes that his father hadn't done that, and often thinks our lives would be less stressful and more economically secure if he'd just followed in his father's footsteps and worked at the factory where he works, where he'd be making more than he's currently making doing research with a doctorate and wouldn't be $60K in debt thanks to student loans.

 

I think the reason parents pass this belief on to their kids is that they want their children to have an easier life, with less struggle. I think that's true no matter what your job is. My husband and I are overeducated people saddled with tons of student loan debt who have dealt with un- or underemployment our entire adult lives, and while we won't actively discourage our children from going to college, we aren't going to push them to do it if it isn't something they either want to do or need to do to prepare for their intended career. Why? Because we want them to have an easier life than we have, and to not be saddled with a ton of debt at a young age and unable to find a job that pays anywhere near enough to make a dent in it.

[Lovedtodeath]

Oh and my Dad is an Electrical Engineer and he lost his job to young upstarts who were willing to work for less pay.:glare:

 

I want my kids to have at least a 2 year degree (there are many work at home opportunities that require a degree), but they will get a 2-8 year degree by taking correspondence courses and going to local colleges, then they won't be saddled with debt.

[Mommyfaithe]

"A few years from now, an hour with a good plumber, if you can find one, is going to cost more than an hour with a good psychiatrist. At which point we'll all be in need of both."

 

here is one of my favorite quotes.

 

My husband is a very skilled plumber and hvac technician. He has a terrible time hiring help. Many of the guys in the field are what he refers to as " beer money plumbers.".

 

He is training my sons in the field...and my 16 and 20 year olds are more skilled than many of their older counter parts.

 

It is really hard for me to allow them to move in this direction due to my own bias. It DOES feel like a consolation prize.....because I have been trained to feel that if my kids do not have a collared shirt and tie on with a brief case, they have failed.

 

I am trying to get myself past this. My dh makes very good money. He is Well educated. He is a great businessman and salesman....and he is a great husband and father. What more could I ask for my boys?

 

It seems like the high schools almost threaten the kids with idea if they are not on the college path...they might have to WORK for a living.....oy!

 

I think they need both! Those guys which are mechanically inclined need to be encouraged. All machinery is so much more technical these days....the laws governing the use flammable liquids ( oil or liquid petroleum) and gases are extremely complicated and the fines for misuse are astronomical... A tech ician must be intelligent, well spoken, well groomed, a salesman, a troubleshooter...and respectful of the machinery he works on and the people he works for. It is not an easy fall back profession.....correct hvac installations and troubleshooting take years of training and continuance of schooling yearly.

 

Anyway, I am glad someone is finally saying what needs to be said....

 

Faithe...who is very proud of my plumbers!

[Mommyfaithe]

Oh and my Dad is an Electrical Engineer and he lost his job to young upstarts who were willing to work for less pay.:glare:

 

I want my kids to have at least a 2 year degree (there are many work at home opportunities that require a degree), but they will get a 2-8 year degree by taking correspondence courses and going to local colleges, then they won't be saddled with debt.

 

I want all my kids to have 4 year degrees. My older 2 daughters are not working in our family business. My daughters husband was offered a job as a trainee in our business...but since he has a BA in physics, he would rather not have a job at all....even one that has full benefits and pays $18 bucks an hour with us....but that is another story!

 

My oldest son and my next son are both learning our trade. Oldest son is studying math and science in the CC and will finish next year. My younger son is more serious about our business, is very mechanically inclined and he and dh are more in tune with each other. He is still homeschooling...but is apprenticing to my dh as part of his high school training as did my older son...only this one is probably going to take over the business when dh and I finally retire. He will begin doing CLEP exams and distance classes next year for his senior year of high school...and then probably do another senior year...haha....because he really does not want to leave the business when he is doing the bulk of his learning. When he has done as much distance learning as possible, we will finish up his BA at the local university so he can work around his school schedule.

 

Anyway, I am losing my train of thought....I just really wanted to reiterate, that while I think it is very important, especially in our society, to have a 4 year degree...or better....BUT, I also think putting the kabash on skilled labor is foolish...and if the educational system keeps doing that...and parents keep pushing all professional careers onto mechanically inclined kids...our economy and our society in general is going to be suffering even more than it is now.

 

Faithe

Edited May 19, 2011 by Mommyfaithe

[Mrs Mungo]

My husband is a very skilled plumber and hvac technician. He has a terrible time hiring help. Many of the guys in the field are what he refers to as " beer money plumbers.".

 

He is training my sons in the field...and my 16 and 20 year olds are more skilled than many of their older counter parts.

 

It is really hard for me to allow them to move in this direction due to my own bias. It DOES feel like a consolation prize.....because I have been trained to feel that if my kids do not have a collared shirt and tie on with a brief case, they have failed.

 

I am trying to get myself past this. My dh makes very good money. He is Well educated. He is a great businessman and salesman....and he is a great husband and father. What more could I ask for my boys?

 

It seems like the high schools almost threaten the kids with idea if they are not on the college path...they might have to WORK for a living.....oy!

 

I think they need both! Those guys which are mechanically inclined need to be encouraged. All machinery is so much more technical these days....the laws governing the use flammable liquids ( oil or liquid petroleum) and gases are extremely complicated and the fines for misuse are astronomical... A tech ician must be intelligent, well spoken, well groomed, a salesman, a troubleshooter...and respectful of the machinery he works on and the people he works for. It is not an easy fall back profession.....correct hvac installations and troubleshooting take years of training and continuance of schooling yearly.

 

Anyway, I am glad someone is finally saying what needs to be said....

 

Faithe...who is very proud of my plumbers!

 

The more troubling issue is that it implies you don't need schooling if you're going to work for a living.

 

You *need* a decent education to sound professional, check advertising, check figures, double check other people's math when you're paying an invoice or getting paid for a job, to forecast needs and so forth.

 

I've told this story before, but this happened when I was in college:

 

I had recently started a new job at a small business. I had been carefully keeping track of my hours. When my paychecks were not matching up to what I figured, I went to talk to my manager about it. I said, "can you tell me how you are figuring hours, because my check isn't matching up with what I figured." He was all too happy to explain. He started writing columns of figures. He added up the minutes and carried to the tens place like they were normal numbers. I was all :blink: I said, "no, no, you can't do it that way." He said "yes, yes, let me show you." I said "no, I understand what you're doing, you are doing it wrong. Doing it your way I have to work 100 minutes in order to get paid for an hour. You have to add up the minutes, divide by 60 and *then* add that number to the hours." It took about 10 minutes to make him understand. This was the THIRD business he had managed, I was the first to complain.

 

Everyone needs an education.

[Mommyfaithe]

Loved everything he had to say.

 

There is at least one entire generation (if not two) who were raised with the idea that physical labour was "beneath them." If they wanted a "good job" it meant a desk job or white collar professional job. Anything that remotely smacked of physical work was demeaned. It is now expected that all kids should (will) go to college or university to get a degree to get a "good job." I see this all over. What's most disheartening is to see it coming from farmers. Quite frankly, it disgusts me to see farm kids who think it's beneath them to get their hands dirty doing real work.

 

I'll be blunt and say that I think the average young person today is stupid -- yes, I said stupid. The fact of the matter is that the average high school graduate is too stupid to meet the demands of university level work. So, the universities lower the expectations, lest they lose paying customers. Then, the next class comes along a little bit dumber than previous ones, and expectations are lowered yet again. All the while, universities and the general public are still demeaning physical labour jobs in favour of that piece of certified university paper. Hah. It is the most unfunny joke ever played on us.

 

I frequently work with companies who are begging for qualified tradesmen. Their complaint is that young people either aren't interested in the trades or are too stupid to make it through the courses. I definitely agree with the "too stupid" part of it. Sure, there are some bright young people coming out of the public school system, but far, far too many are barely literate and have very little work ethic.

 

I encourage young people to consider the trades. Those who have even a smidgen of work ethic are not bothered by the work aspect of it. Those with even a hint of entrepreneurial spirit are attracted by the possibilities of being their own boss if they chose. Those who have a real sense of the world are able to see all of the opportunities it can afford them.

 

Now, if the schools would just encourage and support education along with the vocational arts instead of all the other cr*p they spew, there might be more bright kids out there to take on the challenge of the trades. And, if parents and the general public would get off the "university is everything" propaganda wagon, we might stand a chance of bringing the economy back to its former glory.

 

Oh...you took the words right out of my mouth!

Thank you,

Faithe

[Mommyfaithe]

Thank you so much for posting this! I've been think about this recently. We are remodeling our upstairs bathroom. In order to make more room for storage, we decided to relocate the toilet to another wall. While my dh was perfectly capable of doing this himself (thanks to a jack-of-all-trades dad), he works a lot of hours. We called the only plumber in our tiny town for an estimate. $900 to move a toilet less than 5 feet! My dh decided he did indeed have the time to do it himself. Materials cost around $20 and the job was completed in about 8 hours.

 

This incident got me thinking about a blurb I read in some random homeschooling book. The parents had hsed in somewhat of a classical manner. Their boys werewell-educated, but the oldest decided he really wanted to be a mechanic. Mom was proud of her son, saying he was probably the only mechanic who quoted Shapespeare while working.

 

This is a classical education board. We are dedicated to providing our children with a rigorous education. I bet most of us want out kids to go off to college. I do too. But, I too would be happy with a mechanic son who quotes Shakespeare, or a hair stylist daughter who appreciates classical music, or an electrician kid who can read Latin and Greek, or a kid who can build their own deck and come inside and read War and Peace.

 

Well...when people complained about my husbands prices, he looked up what a clown makes....a clown for a children's party in our area charges $225 an hour!! Seriously.

 

Anyway...our prices does not just include moving the potty...it includes skyrocketed liability insurance, truck insurance, medical insurance, keeping our trucks stocked, our office manned, our family fed and our electric on.....so, yes, we could come out and do a job cheaper, but it doesn't make sense for us to work cheaper and not make any money....

 

I love that my boys can speak some Latin and quote Shakespeare and the Bible. I love that my sons are learning a trade they can use to pay their way through college...or to feed, clothe and send their own kids through school.

I wish. Y kiss wouldn't have it as hard as we did...and I will work hard to make sure they are the most educated , degrees plumbers around! :D. And if they choose another path, that is great too....they will still be able to move that potty...and not have to pay someone else to do it.

 

Faithe

[missiemick]

Thank you so much for posting this! I've been think about this recently. We are remodeling our upstairs bathroom. In order to make more room for storage, we decided to relocate the toilet to another wall. While my dh was perfectly capable of doing this himself (thanks to a jack-of-all-trades dad), he works a lot of hours. We called the only plumber in our tiny town for an estimate. $900 to move a toilet less than 5 feet! My dh decided he did indeed have the time to do it himself. Materials cost around $20 and the job was completed in about 8 hours.

 

This incident got me thinking about a blurb I read in some random homeschooling book. The parents had hsed in somewhat of a classical manner. Their boys werewell-educated, but the oldest decided he really wanted to be a mechanic. Mom was proud of her son, saying he was probably the only mechanic who quoted Shapespeare while working.

 

This is a classical education board. We are dedicated to providing our children with a rigorous education. I bet most of us want out kids to go off to college. I do too. But, I too would be happy with a mechanic son who quotes Shakespeare, or a hair stylist daughter who appreciates classical music, or an electrician kid who can read Latin and Greek, or a kid who can build their own deck and come inside and read War and Peace.

Building a deck and then reading War and Peace -- I would be happy for my children to marry someone so well rounded (and sexy!)

[WishboneDawn]

His previous job was management. He worked 60-80 hour weeks routinely and at salary. He's now paid hourly. He might get OT right now(it's actually a given), and is working long hours, but he's well paid for those hours. He has days off. No more calls if someone is sick, someone doesn't want to do their job, blah, blah, blah. He gets called asking if he can work X or not. He has a regular schedule.

 

 

Ha! My husband was a restaurant manager. Glorified babysitter he called it. He finally got a job as a signal maintainer for a railroad and the change in him has been amazing. It's a lot of work and often very hard work but he's got a good salary with excellent benefits and most importantly, a real trade and skill set he can take pride in.

[elegantlion]

I love that my boys can speak some Latin and quote Shakespeare and the Bible. I love that my sons are learning a trade they can use to pay their way through college...or to feed, clothe and send their own kids through school.

I wish. Y kiss wouldn't have it as hard as we did...and I will work hard to make sure they are the most educated , degrees plumbers around! :D. And if they choose another path, that is great too....they will still be able to move that potty...and not have to pay someone else to do it.

 

Faithe

 

This is kind of the attitude I'm going to have to have. Ds just worked with dh for 3 days. He made enough money to buy a monitor he's been wanting. Happy as a clam and tomorrow I'm going to make him do algebra. :glare: Dh got caught up in the lure of easy money as a teen/young adult. At 50 it's not so easy.

 

I think my saving grace is that dh regrets not having a degree. He is just as adamant about college for ds as I am. My MIL (former dean of a college) was in town this weekend. Ds had no qualms telling her he was interested in computer science for college. That may change, but at least it's an answer. I breathed a sigh of relief.

[Lovedtodeath]

You have to add up the minutes, divide by 60 and *then* add that number to the hours." It took about 10 minutes to make him understand. This was the THIRD business he had managed, I was the first to complain.

 

Everyone needs an education.

But you don't learn that in college.

[snickelfritz]

But you don't learn that in college.

 

I don't know. With all the remedial math/comp courses everyone is saying college freshman have to take....I think they ARE learning that in college. :)

[Mrs Mungo]

But you don't learn that in college.

 

I didn't say you did. I said everyone needs an education, not a college education. Lots of young people do not take their education (any of it) seriously. It is one of the things dragging the whole system down. It was a problem when I was in high school 20 years ago, it is a problem now.

[abreakfromlife]

This was the THIRD business he had managed, I was the first to complain.

 

:eek::eek::eek: Wow.

[Lovedtodeath]

I didn't say you did. I said everyone needs an education, not a college education. Lots of young people do not take their education (any of it) seriously. It is one of the things dragging the whole system down. It was a problem when I was in high school 20 years ago, it is a problem now.

Thank you for clarifying. Typically "everyone needs an education" or "education is important" is in reference to college. If it is not, then that is a very good thing.

 

Another thing: I know plenty of college graduates with 4 year degrees who are lazy and ignorant and a burden to all of the other employees around them.

 

The problem is that for some reason there are many individuals who do not value education enough to actually try to learn something from it. It is a prevailing attitude and that is what we need rectified.

[Mrs Mungo]

Thank you for clarifying. Typically "everyone needs an education" or "education is important" is in reference to college. If it is not, then that is a very good thing.

 

There is a reason that I homeschool. ;)

 

Another thing: I know plenty of college graduates with 4 year degrees who are lazy and ignorant and a burden to all of the other employees around them.

 

The problem is that for some reason there are many individuals who do not value education enough to actually try to learn something from it. It is a prevailing attitude and that is what we need rectified.

I think *this* is what happens when 4 year degree=piece of paper is seen as a hurdle for certain jobs and little more. I agree that it gives some people an undeserved sense of knowledge/entitlement.

 

I also think there are a lot of things not taught in schools that should be. I think kids should know about credit, how to manage a bank account, how to cook basic meals, how to manage a budget, how to run a household, small business classes, etc.

Edited May 20, 2011 by Mrs Mungo