How to handle ds feeling sorry for himself?

[East Coast Sue]

Here's the short question for those who have the wisdom, but not the time to read all the details... How to handle self pity, especially in young boys?

 

Okay here are the details....

My ds 5.5 misbehaves from time to time- relatively normal stuff. When I correct him and seek to restore good choices/behavior, he has a habit of feeling sorry for himself and saying, "I'm bad." It starts a downhill spiral of a bad attitude & self pity.

I don't really know if he believes this or not but I tell him it is all about choices- good and bad choices. I point this out in characters we read about in stories and kids we see in the neighborhood. I make a point of noting good choices and bad choices. Really, I haven't gone overboard but I am trying to help him snap out of it. His self pity is having a negative effect on his behavior. I have tried to talk with him about it when his behavior is fine to help him role play and see a way through correction w/o the self pity. It hasn't worked. I have also started to time his pouting and made him do chores for the time he is wasting. Is there something else that I can do? I have also thought about just ignoring him but it seems his behavior is just getting worse when he feels sorry for himself....

Thank you for your advice!!! I really want to address this behavior b/c it seems to be a big problem in his otherwise wonderful personality.

Susan

[Impish]

I'd ask him to go to his room until he's feeling better. With my kids, the self pity would be about gaining attention more than anything else, and I find some time away to pull themselves together works better.

[East Coast Sue]

You're right it is about attention. A short trip to the bed until he feels better is good and appropriate. I might need to do that too since he is wearing me out!

[Elizabeth in WA]

My ds13 tends to feel sorry for himself, and he is not seeking attention when he does. Now that he is 13, I can reason with him about it. That does not always change the way he feels, however, even if he does realize that rationally, he has no reason to feel that way.

 

Feeling sorry for oneself is not always attention seeking. Talking helps, but you feel how you feel, even if it isn't justified and even if it drives your parents (or even yourself) crazy. I do not think that it is helpful to insist people, even very young people, deny their feelings. On the other hand, sulking and whining, etc. are unacceptable behaviors that can be forbidden.

[kchara]

My DS did that. It was all about gaining attention. I bought into it, for a while. Now, it's unacceptable. I don't have time for pity parties.

[LibraryLover]

I'm always amazed at the harsh attitudes lobbed toward little children on this board.

 

Attention -seeking ...you're talking about a little kid, not an adult, for goodness sake.

 

Of course 5 year olds want attention. Doh. The world is big and new and scary and sometimes the demands of life get to a person...even if that person is a whopping 5.

 

Tough crowd, tough crowd.

[Impish]

I don't see anything harsh about a child taking time out to get themselves together. As I said, its what works with *my* kids, and poor me routines have, in the past, proven to be attention seeking...and any attempt to talk, cajole, etc only amped up the behaviour, never helped a bit.

[HS Mom in NC]

I don't know if your child fits this bill, but I deal with this all the time.

 

This is a deeply ingrained personality trait for some people. I have in-laws and a spouse very prone to this and the downward spirals that go with it. Generally speaking, it's about a bad mental habit of focusing on self, feelings, and the past. Many of them tend to have obsessive kind of behaviors too-hyper focusing on things and reliving them over and over. They tend to be people who will let the slightest negative thing completely cloud their view of all the good things that are going on.

 

Getting them to focus on others and helping/serving/thinking of others is usually a good remedy. Teaching them to think about "What constructive, positive, useful thing can I do about it now?" (in the present) and "Where do I go from here?" (in the future) are better than letting them stew about the past. I would be careful about not to accidentally help the child relive it and hyper focus on it. Moving forward with, "Next time you can_______________ instead." Then move on. They really need help moving on. When they bring it up again, they need to hear, "We dealt with that. It's over. Now, let's go do _______________________." Or if they focus on the negative, ask them questions leading them to focus on the positive.

 

Remember, it's always easier to get pity than to earn respect. Some people would rather get the quick easy fix of getting attention with pity rather than earning the respect that comes from doing the right thing and not needing to be the center of attention.

 

You're right-this does become a serious problem if not dealt with. (Assuming your child is dealing with the early stages of what I'm living with in the later stages.)

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

I don't know if your child fits this bill, but I deal with this all the time.

 

This is a deeply ingrained personality trait for some people. I have in-laws and a spouse very prone to this and the downward spirals that go with it. Generally speaking, it's about a bad mental habit of focusing on self, feelings, and the past. Many of them tend to have obsessive kind of behaviors too-hyper focusing on things and reliving them over and over. They tend to be people who will let the slightest negative thing completely cloud their view of all the good things that are going on.

 

Getting them to focus on others and helping/serving/thinking of others is usually a good remedy. Teaching them to think about "What constructive, positive, useful thing can I do about it now?" (in the present) and "Where do I go from here?" (in the future) are better than letting them stew about the past. I would be careful about not to accidentally help the child relive it and hyper focus on it. Moving forward with, "Next time you can_______________ instead." Then move on. They really need help moving on. When they bring it up again, they need to hear, "We dealt with that. It's over. Now, let's go do _______________________." Or if they focus on the negative, ask them questions leading them to focus on the positive.

 

Remember, it's always easier to get pity than to earn respect. Some people would rather get the quick easy fix of getting attention with pity rather than earning the respect that comes from doing the right thing and not needing to be the center of attention.

 

You're right-this does become a serious problem if not dealt with. (Assuming your child is dealing with the early stages of what I'm living with in the later stages.)

 

I recently spent 10 days with a close family member who is just as you describe in the above post. 10 LONG DAYS. She's in her 60's and all her friends have abandoned her. The only thing that saved my sanity was proceeding just as described here in the second paragraph (and a bit of bourbon and coke). I just couldn't play along....

[waa510]

I agree with the pps that he *may* be doing it as a way of garnering attention, but I *do not* agree with the ideology that this type of behavior is *only* about attention. Some kids are just more emotionally intense or sensitive. I would be sure to tease out whether there is legitimate emotional sadness/dismay there..and if there is, sending the kiddo to their room would probably only make them feel worse! I know it did for me as a child.

 

I was a big 'woe is me' kid. What helped for me was what I like to call 'perspective.' I went on a field trip in 4th grade to NY and saw a lot of homeless people living on the streets while my bus navigated Manhattan. I lived in a very small town growing up and was sheltered from most of the evil in this world, so I honestly thought losing one's purple hair tie was the worst thing that could happen to a person. Seeing that others dealt with issues far larger than my incredibly well-off existence really helped me see some of the silliness in my self-pity. It was a hard pill to swallow, but it was needed. Taking your 'woe is me' child out to see or experience the real world (in a controlled way, based on age-appropriateness of the situation) can be good imo.

 

We're UUs, so my kiddos often hear about people in various situations of oppression, etc. during our Outreach Sundays and social justice events. We try to volunteer in our community to those in need and that helps them gently see that they really have nothing to whine about. ;) We donate food to food pantries, clothes to Goodwill, rake leaves and shovel snow for elderly neighbors, etc and talk about why we do these things, and the situations these people may be in so we try to help them if we can. I think helping others less fortunate has helped empower my kids and bolstered their self-esteem.

 

Not sure if this was at all helpful, but I wanted to post that it may not be as simple as an attention-seeking behavior. He really might have feelings behind those actions. Just please don't dismiss your dc to his room without knowing for sure. :001_smile:

[LibraryLover]

Playing along ...that's what I mean...as if a 5 year old has the same needs an an adult.

 

A need met in childhood is a need met...unmet needs carry into adulthood and make people insufferable.

 

Caring for the emotional needs of a small child can help prevent needy and annoying behaviors in adults.

 

Punishing away little children who have needs seems counter productive to me. It's not even appropriate to think a small child doesn't need certain attention.

 

I can't in good conscious tell the OP to punish her 5 year old for 'seeking' attention because I do not know why he is seeking attention. Maybe he really does need attention.

 

There is a reason he's acting that way. I'd like err on the side of the child's needs.

Edited May 11, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Quad Shot Academy]

I don't know if your child fits this bill, but I deal with this all the time.

 

This is a deeply ingrained personality trait for some people. I have in-laws and a spouse very prone to this and the downward spirals that go with it. Generally speaking, it's about a bad mental habit of focusing on self, feelings, and the past. Many of them tend to have obsessive kind of behaviors too-hyper focusing on things and reliving them over and over. They tend to be people who will let the slightest negative thing completely cloud their view of all the good things that are going on.

 

Getting them to focus on others and helping/serving/thinking of others is usually a good remedy. Teaching them to think about "What constructive, positive, useful thing can I do about it now?" (in the present) and "Where do I go from here?" (in the future) are better than letting them stew about the past. I would be careful about not to accidentally help the child relive it and hyper focus on it. Moving forward with, "Next time you can_______________ instead." Then move on. They really need help moving on. When they bring it up again, they need to hear, "We dealt with that. It's over. Now, let's go do _______________________." Or if they focus on the negative, ask them questions leading them to focus on the positive.

 

Remember, it's always easier to get pity than to earn respect. Some people would rather get the quick easy fix of getting attention with pity rather than earning the respect that comes from doing the right thing and not needing to be the center of attention.

 

You're right-this does become a serious problem if not dealt with. (Assuming your child is dealing with the early stages of what I'm living with in the later stages.)

This is great advice! Your guy sounds sensitive and like he wants to do the right thing. Also, rather than lecturing, I would ask him how he could have handled it better. Say he was angry and hit someone. I would say, "I see you are angry at xx, can you think of a better way to solve the problem than hitting?" "Good idea, let's try that and then you can say sorry and do something special for xx, to show him that you really are sorry."

[Year Round Mom]

I'm not sure if you're Christian or have similar beliefs, so disregard if you need to! :tongue_smilie:

 

My 3yo DD often says, "I'm a loser" when "racing" with her older siblings or playing games. I'm teaching her to say,

 

"Sometimes I win, and sometimes I lose, but I am not a loser."

 

I tell her that because God made her, she's beautiful. I tell her that because God loves her, she can be happy. She's starting to believe it and is starting to repeat it when she "loses" at something.

 

Maybe you could come up with a similar phrase that addresses the fact that everyone makes good and bad decisions, but it doesn't mean he's bad. (I feel I have to make a clarification here, without going into a debate. :D As a Christian, I do believe that we all like sheep have gone astray, as a result of the Fall, and that each of us need a Savior. Even young children can understand that they sin and need Jesus! Okay, done "clarifying"!)

 

HTH!

[LibraryLover]

This I can get behind. And I'm not Christian.

 

I'm not sure if you're Christian or have similar beliefs, so disregard if you need to! :tongue_smilie:

 

My 3yo DD often says, "I'm a loser" when "racing" with her older siblings or playing games. I'm teaching her to say,

 

"Sometimes I win, and sometimes I lose, but I am not a loser."

 

I tell her that because God made her, she's beautiful. I tell her that because God loves her, she can be happy. She's starting to believe it and is starting to repeat it when she "loses" at something.

 

Maybe you could come up with a similar phrase that addresses the fact that everyone makes good and bad decisions, but it doesn't mean he's bad. (I feel I have to make a clarification here, without going into a debate. :D As a Christian, I do believe that we all like sheep have gone astray, as a result of the Fall, and that each of us need a Savior. Even young children can understand that they sin and need Jesus! Okay, done "clarifying"!)

 

HTH!

[Rivka]

I might try following up on "I'm bad!" with, "Sounds like you're feeling really really sorry about what happened. I wonder if there's something you could do to make things right." Or "I wonder what we could do to make sure things go differently next time." In a loving voice, probably with my arm around him.

 

It really does feel awful to be out of right relationship with the most important people in your life.

[myfunnybunch]

I might try following up on "I'm bad!" with, "Sounds like you're feeling really really sorry about what happened. I wonder if there's something you could do to make things right." Or "I wonder what we could do to make sure things go differently next time." In a loving voice, probably with my arm around him.

 

It really does feel awful to be out of right relationship with the most important people in your life.

 

This is what we say as well. My middle ds, particularly at that age, really needed some coaching on separating the idea of feeling bad from *being* bad. We focus on what to do to make amends with others and making different choices. I also remind him that the bad feeling can be a useful tool to help us remember that we don't want to make the same choices again, but we don't want to let the feeling make us believe we're something we're not. Then a hug, an "I love you" and a "Buck up, bub," and we move on. If he needs a little more time, I give him the option of resting on his bed or coming along with me to keep me company in whatever I'm doing.

 

Cat

[twoforjoy]

My DS can be the same way. Honestly, for a long time I thought he was just looking for sympathy/attention, but I came to realize that he actually DID feel really badly. As he's gotten older it's been easier to see. He has a tendency to react very, very emotionally to something, usually with anger, and then, once he calms down, feel very badly about how he reacted. I have the same tendency, so I understand.

 

When he's in that mood, I just let him know that I can tell he's feeling badly, and that it's normal to feel badly when we do something wrong, but that doesn't mean he's bad. He's good and, assuming he's made amends, he's been forgiven, so he doesn't have to hold on to the bad feeling.

 

In general, I'm working on being much more careful about the ratio of positive-to-negative stuff I say to him. He's a handful, and it's VERY easy for me to fall into the pattern of just constantly reprimanding him and constantly telling him that he either shouldn't be doing what he is doing or should be doing something he's not doing. I realized that I needed to be giving him a lot more positive feedback and a lot more praise, so that he wasn't always hearing from me about the things he wasn't doing so well. It's a lot more convincing for me to say "You're not bad, you're a great kid" if I haven't been bombarding him with messages all day about all the things he's doing wrong, and have told him about the things he is doing great with, you know?

Edited May 11, 2011 by twoforjoy

[Cindyz]

Thank you for this thread and all of the wonderful advice. I really needed this today.

[WTMCassandra]

Just a quick note: My prone to self pity child does NOT do well alone. It makes the self pity worse and more entrenched. This child needs active instruction and admonishment about the perspective of the situation to pull out.

[HS Mom in NC]

Just a quick note: My prone to self pity child does NOT do well alone. It makes the self pity worse and more entrenched. This child needs active instruction and admonishment about the perspective of the situation to pull out.

 

This is so true. From dealing with this at the adult level (entrenched at 40+ years and 60+ years) I have to say that the worst thing to do is let these types of children alone with their self-pity. My oldest had to be redirected often-although self-pity was not a chronic problem with her.

[HS Mom in NC]

They are very emotionally motivated- not the types who instinctively question themselves, their thoughts, and feelings with logical questions like other personality types would. They need another person to be the voice of reason-particularly when they are younger so they can watch and learn to do it for themselves later. They tend to have few instictive coping skills. (My husband is currently arranging counseling for this and we are in marriage counseling.)

 

They seem to have a hard time grasping that if they relive the negative while the negative is no longer happening, they are basically volunteering to be a victim again at their own choosing. They have a hard time believing that people can often learn to choose different feelings and different thoughts. Often there is an inability to see other options for behavior too. "There's nothing I can do about it" is often applied in their minds to situations that do have other behavior options. Sometimes they're so focused on the emotion, the options are out of their view-someone has to point it out to them.

 

People like this tend to lose friends easily because, let's face it, this isn't The 100 Acre Wood, and most people don't find people who are like Eeyore charming. They find them to be exhausting. Hypersensitive, negative people tend to overreact to small bumps in the road and relationships as though they are major issues, so people who are not family members tend to choose to avoid them and the awkward situations that their hyper-sensitivity creates rather than walk on eggshells around them or deal with the drama resulting from their downward spirals.

 

Another thing to teach them, because they're not naturals at it, is to reinforce the idea that not everything you think or say needs to be shared with everyone all the time. Most people don't want to know grisly details of your latest challenge in life when they bump into you at the grocery store with, "How are you?"

 

I have seen my MIL go on and on about her woes with casual acquaintances or in social environments that were not at all appropriate. Those conversations are best for trusted confidants in private situations.

 

Example: Two weeks ago I sat in ICU where my MIL's MIL was dying and my MIL was going on, in front of more than a dozen family members about how it reminded her of when her mother was dying. She spent about 5-10 minutes detailing the trails she suffered dealing with leaking diapers on her Alzheimer's afflicted mother and fatal hemorrhaging from her father's nose, etc. That's not what people preparing to say their final goodbyes to a relative need to hear.

 

The last and most frustrating thing is that these personality types have a very hard time distinguishing between a simple disagreement and personal attacks. This really erodes intimacy in all kinds of relationships. They will often even respond personally to a disagreement between others if they happen to be in agreement with one of them. They cannot separate themselves from their views or positions. So, when someone comes along and takes a opposing view with even some sort of political commentary, the hyper-sensitive person may react as though the person disagreeing with the commentary is personally attacking them. This feeds the vicious cycle of social isolation.

[Mejane]

I'm always amazed at the harsh attitudes lobbed toward little children on this board.

 

Attention -seeking ...you're talking about a little kid, not an adult, for goodness sake.

 

 

I would tend to agree, but I've watched dd act this way since she was little. She's now 18 and still has the poor me/persecution complex. With some people, it's really more a personality trait than something they'll grow out of. Unfortunately. :tongue_smilie:

[I.Dup.]

I would tend to agree, but I've watched dd act this way since she was little. She's now 18 and still has the poor me/persecution complex. With some people, it's really more a personality trait than something they'll grow out of. Unfortunately. :tongue_smilie:

 

I DON'T agree that I've seen overly harsh attitudes on this board, but I definitely agree that the "woe is me" self pity is definitely more of a personality thing (call it attention seeking or not if that makes you uncomfortable but either way it's a personality thing).

 

We all know children are not perfect and have habits and attitudes they need to learn to deal with in healthy ways. Self pity and wanting abnormal amounts of attention is not healthy for anyone, not even a child. How does self pity gain someone anything other than feeling worse and worse? We ALL know adults who are obnoxiously prone to self pity and I don't buy for one second that it's because they weren't given enough attention in childhood. There are children who grow up under horrible circumstances that turn out to be incredibly well-adjusted, selfless and caring. It's all about how we choose to deal with life.

[Peela]

Playing along ...that's what I mean...as if a 5 year old has the same needs an an adult.

 

A need met in childhood is a need met...unmet needs carry into adulthood and make people insufferable.

 

Caring for the emotional needs of a small child can help prevent needy and annoying behaviors in adults.

 

Punishing away little children who have needs seems counter productive to me. It's not even appropriate to think a small child doesn't need certain attention.

 

I can't in good conscious tell the OP to punish her 5 year old for 'seeking' attention because I do not know why he is seeking attention. Maybe he really does need attention.

 

There is a reason he's acting that way. I'd like err on the side of the child's needs.

 

:iagree:

I would agree that many of the attitudes expressed here are too harsh, IMO.

 

 

Do you accept him and make him feel loved as he is, regardless? Its one thing to try and correct behaviour, but if it makes a kid feel he is fundamentally not ok, its coming from a different place from when he feels he is fundamentally ok and loved and a good person, but heres something we are going to look at differently because it doesn't serve you, the kid.

 

I often say too...we don't choose our personalities and we don't choose our wounding and unconscious patterns. As adults we can take responsiblity for them (and how many of us dont ever have pity parties?), but a 5yo does not consciously choose to have a pity party to be difficult- he is driven by internal mechanisms in that direction, for whatever reason. He can be veered away from those behaviours if they are superficial patterns but not necessarily if they are deep- and if he feels there is something wrong with him for melting into tears when he is told off, or whatever, it is only going to do more damage, because he may not yet have the emotional maturity (he is 5!) or the developed nervous system for veering himself out of those states once they are triggered. Since most adults have plenty of negative traits they barely take responsilbity for, and find very difficult to change, I suggest a 5 yo needs an incredible amount of patience and understanding rather than a dismissive, callous attitude. And then, the parent needs to be patent with themselves too for the frustration of dealing with a kid who has some challenging patterns- especially if those patterns trigger the parent.

 

I want my kids to love themselves, warts and all, and that is my underlying intention- I feel it is the only way they will have the motivation to deal with their own issues and the best way to help them make good decisions for themselves. When my son in particular would go off the deep end in negative emotional states- and he was a highly emotional kid until his teens when he matured out of it- we were fairly helpless but we tried all sorts of things. But he knew he was loved within those states as well- not just when they were over of if he changed them. Not that we were perfect- I certainly lost my cool- but I apologised mostly, if I got too upset.

 

Sorry, rambling.

[I.Dup.]

I also think a lot of this boils down to our core beliefs about life and our religious beliefs, etc.

 

I do not think "happiness" and loving oneself is the supreme goal in life. Our culture is SO fixated on happiness, self-esteem, loving oneself, standing up for one's rights, and I honestly don't see how that is doing anybody any good. So naturally, I do not make that a priority when raising my children, I do not think putting so much thought and effort into me, me, me particularly healthy. Naturally, someone who does not subscribe to similiar religious beliefs or thoughts on life's purpose would not agree with that, and may find the idea that we teach our children to be 100% responsible for their actions starting from a young age, "harsh."

 

This is a subject I feel very passionately about (both of my parents are psychologists and are all about analyzing feelings and thoughts, etc, etc and I see how much harm that did to me personally so I choose to raise my children differently and hope they never feel like a victim to their emotions and circumstances the way I was taught to).

[LibraryLover]

Yes.

 

:iagree:

I would agree that many of the attitudes expressed here are too harsh, IMO.

 

 

I often say too...we don't choose our personalities and we don't choose our wounding and unconscious patterns. As adults we can take responsiblity for them (and how many of us dont ever have pity parties?), but a 5yo does not consciously choose to have a pity party to be difficult- he is driven by internal mechanisms in that direction, for whatever reason.

[yucabird]

Perhaps you could approach this by telling him HE is not bad but that his BEHAVIOR was (inconsiderate, dangerous, whatever adjective). Then explain why the BEHAVIOR was inappropriate. Don’t allow him to denigrate himself; make it clear he is a loveable kid.

[Teachin'Mine]

Just to throw another idea out there - it could also be a stage. My dd did the same, although she was in school at the time and was used to constantly hearing that someone was a bad boy or a bad girl when they did something wrong. :confused: It took a while of constantly giving her positive feedback that her behavior was wrong but that she's a good kid. Here I had worked so hard on that distinction never using the terms "good girl" or "bad girl" and then a couple months of school and it was out the window. :tongue_smilie: Thankfully she moved beyond that stage rather quickly once we were homeschooling, but it did take some time.

 

So, it could be any of the ideas already given, or he may be influenced by something he's hearing from another adult or parent, or it may be a stage.