Tell me what you know about WP and TOG

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Anything you know about either of these programs would be great. I am having the hardest time figuring out how TOG works. Maybe I am just too tired right now. Winter Promise looks great, why don't I hear more about it. Is it really not that great?

[huntchaos]

:bigear:

 

I have felt drawn to both of these programs as well...

[3peasinapod]

We have finished WP AS1 this year, and it wasn't a fit for our family. I'll tell you why. :001_smile: We've also tried AW and their preschool programs.

 

I have tweaked AS1 to beyond recognition. I only used 2 lines in the whole 12 (more or less) line schedule. I found that it was jumpy. We would be reading about the Iroquois and do a paper craft on the Southwest Native Americans. This was throughout the whole year. I rearranged it and didn't even do it as WP scheduled.

 

Some of the books weren't for our family either, about 1/3 of the books were dry to us. We really like to be emotionally involved with a few nonfiction books thrown in. Many of the illustrations were absolutely fantastic, but the text was so dry and boring, we just couldn't do it, and I ended up using some of the books as picture studies and trying to pull out information that I knew about the time.

 

The craft activities were paper crafts, like folding paper and gluing it to make a teepee or the like. It was okay until I ended up making them for the girls (2 sets) and I burned out. They oftentimes didn't have enough patience to even color the paper stuff, and then I would have to cut all that little stuff out (tabs and all) and do it myself.

 

We also only read about 3 of the read alouds scheduled. I must admit, we skipped 2 books because I knew we would be switching back to SL, and those particular books were thus in our future. We liked 2 of the read alouds that we did read. Otherwise, they were particularly boring for our 1st and 2nd graders.

 

Also, the notebook pages for AS1 and 2 are very, very boring, and they lack greatly. It is just a page of text with a place to draw. They have been updated, but they are still nearly the same with a few questions instead of just drawing space. There is nothing to do on them. I have seen the new sheets, and they are boring. :001_smile: I have looked at the other notebook pages for other levels (AW, QAW, QMA, HIH), and they look absolutely fabulous. I don't know what happened with the AS1 and 2 pages!

 

We ended up liking our year overall, but I don't know if we really did AS1. I will say that we liked 1/2 to 2/3 of the books, and will actually use them again as supplements. I will reuse our programs and books that we still have from WP and use them in our own way.

 

I know a few people who have loved their year of AS1, so I hope someone who liked it chimes in to give it more of an even keel.

[BlsdMama]

TOG is great and I don't think their website portrays it very well. The best way to get a feel for Tapestry is to print off and do the free two weeks of lessons. I spent a long time looking around at her website and finally just decided to order an older version so I could really dig my hands into it and see it IRL. Loved it! But I don't think the website does it justice! ;)

[Blueridge]

I think TOG has added some helpful explanation videos on their site that give an overview of their program. Watch those first, and then look at their samples. (ETA: I see that Kelly and I were suggesting this at the same time lol.) It is big and can be overwhelming at first. The criticism I have heart about WP is their shipping trouble, which has left many customers beyond frustrated.

http://www.tapestryofgrace.com/explore/

 

ETA...Good heavens...I said HOD and I meant WP. I beg your forgiveness!!

Edited April 29, 2011 by Blueridge

[prairiegirl40]

The criticism I have heart about HOD is their shipping trouble, which has left many customers beyond frustrated.

:confused:

 

 

We have always had excellent shipping service from HOD!

[April in NC]

Have you downloaded the TOG samples? They include three weeks of curriculum that give you a pretty good picture of how the program works. Basically, each week TOG gives you an overview of the essential "threads" of the week for each level that may be using the program. This gives you a big picture idea of what you will be covering. Next they give you a reading list in each subject area, for each level, with main selections on the left chart, and suggested alternates on the right chart. For each week, you go through and decide which assignments you will have your children complete based on: their level, your access to the books, your overall available time, etc. Similarly, there will be an activity chart that lists projects and activities that may be attempted, and you can select from these as well. One difference with TOG and some other programs is that TOG has many long-term projects that are planned and carried out over several weeks or even years.

 

Then there are writing assignments. These are very optional - if you have another language arts program, you might not use these. But if you do use these, you just buy the Writing Aids reference manual once, and use the assignments in the TOG week plans to progress your way through the program. For each week of TOG, there will be assignments for a total of 12 different levels of writing skills, so you may pick an assignment that fits your child's level.

 

There is an extensive teacher's guide for each week of TOG. This isn't so necessary in the lower levels, but for upper levels (dialectic and rhetoric) it is very helpful for getting up to speed on the content of the week without having to have read every assignment along with the student. (You may well want to read all the assignments - but if you can't, this allows you to still lead your student well.)

 

Each week will have a student assignment section that is addressed to the student and explains to the student what they will be doing for the week. (Again, specific assignments are broken down by level.) The lower levels include student activity pages - worksheets that usually match the week's literature selection. Upper levels include outlines for study and discussion. Socratic discussion is a major part of the learning process for the upper levels, and there are guides to assist the teacher in leading the discussions for the week. These discussions are not just reading comprehension checks, or student narrations in the upper levels, but rather they work towards synthesizing the information gathered from the week's readings into a deep understanding of the overall threads for the week, and their place in the larger tapestry.

 

With TOG, it is possible to have every child in your house studying the same topic, but each with their own assignments, on their own level. I am not aware of any other program that lines all the levels up in this way. Once you have bought a unit, you own the lesson plans for all levels, which makes it a great value.

 

The other thing that can be helpful with TOG is that you can buy it by the 9 week unit instead of by the whole year. This makes it really easy and inexpensive to try out, to see if it is a good fit.

 

I don't have direct experience with WP, but have used Sonlight, which is the approach from which the developer of WP came. One key difference is that WP is designed to use a specific selection of books. You can buy a package that has all the books you will need. TOG, on the other hand, has a suggested sequence of books, but also includes extensive suggestions for alternate books (or parts of books) that will also work to cover the material. You can pick any of those, or, because TOG tells you exactly what you are hoping to cover, you can substitute any book from your library that looks appealing and covers the same general material.

 

I believe that even just using the primary selections for TOG may cover more books overall than WP. I suspect this because the amount of money that would be required to outright buy every primary resource would be outrageous! I only purchase the books that are used for multiple weeks, getting the rest from the library. In the lower levels, TOG uses more of the expensive picture books than Sonlight or WP would use, since TOG assumes that you will get many of these types of books from the library. These books would be prohibitively costly to buy in a package like WP, but are really appealing to some children. So TOG could give you the chance to use, say (just guessing, here) upwards of 30-40 picture books with your younger child over the course of the year. That would not be practical for a package based program like WP or Sonlight, who tend to instead choose a few picture books, and then use anthologies or collections or spines where possible.

 

So, in terms of overall user experience - with WP you are getting a program for a specific level that can be bought in a package with every book you need, all lined up and ready to go. Of course, you can also buy these separately, or try to borrow them from your library. If you want a package that includes everything, you would probably not pick TOG. Also, if you have very limited library access, you might not pick TOG.

 

On the other hand, if you want a program that has the flexibility to suggest quality resources without having book cost as a primary consideration (because of them knowing that their users will use the library for expensive or lightly used books), then you may want to consider TOG. We buy perhaps 1/3 to 1/2 of the books for our UG children, and get the rest from the library or substitute. In upper levels, it is more critical to get the exact books that will match the discussion outlines, so I expect to buy more of those books, and I expect the book cost to rise. (Though, of course, you won't be buying picture books in high school! There are more anthologies in the upper levels.)

 

Thus far, I have pretty much discussed the main TOG program. You can also get add-ons, depending on your particular needs. I highly recommend the Map Aids, because it is really helpful to have all the blackline maps you need in order for your child to complete their geography assignments. Throw in an atlas or the internet for researching what goes on each map, and you are all set. (Map Aids does include the teacher's version of each map, all filled in - the atlas and/or internet are for teaching the student how to find this information his or herself.)

 

There are also lapbook kits that you can add on, if your children enjoy these. I'm sure I'm overlooking some of the other options. These are the ones that my family has used.

 

Oh, one other difference that I just remembered is that if you buy the digital edition of TOG, you will receive free updates. This is a big deal, because children's books go out of print all the time. (And new ones are published all the time, too.) If you start your child in LG or UG, and then by the time you are ready to do the unit again for the Dialectic level some of the books have gone out of print, your Digital Edition will have been updated with the new schedule, using newer books that are now in print. You can't resell the digital edition, but given the overall value for years of use, it is very fairly priced. And you can, of course, resell the books that you have purchased to follow the program. I should note that the last I had heard, you are not allowed to resell any of the WP teacher's schedules. If you buy the print version of TOG, you can resell those materials. (But you will have to pay an upgrade fee to get the updated versions of the printed materials in the future.)

 

I'm certain that both TOG and WP are great programs. I regularly drool over WP's gorgeous catalog! Right now, TOG serves our family's needs well, but I have heard wonderful things about WP, too. Aren't we lucky to have such great choices?!

[April in NC]

:confused:

 

 

We have always had excellent shipping service from HOD!

 

I'm pretty sure that's a typo, and she meant WP! I've heard that WP has had issues from time to time with their order fulfillment. Don't know if they've gotten that ironed out yet or not.

[MaryCatherine]

:confused:

 

 

We have always had excellent shipping service from HOD!

 

 

 

I think she meant WP.

[HSMom2One]

April in NC sums it up very well describing TOG and how it works, but I strongly disagree with her about obtaining the resource books. Many families buy the books and build up a library that will be used over the long term for multiple children. In our case, I only have one child at home, but I still purchase the books. Not long ago I shared this comment on Marcia Somerville's blog after reading her article, "Homeschool in Hard Times: Money and Books".

 

"This is our second year of using TOG, and I have to say that it has been life changing for both my daughter and I. I am so thankful that the Lord led us to this wonderful way of learning! My family is not at all wealthy, but educating our daughter is a top priority. It is necessary for me to stay within budget every year, and I’ve developed a method to be able to do that very successfully.We are in a rural area and the only libraries require us to pay fees to use them, and not all books on the TOG lists are available anyway. For this reason I prefer to obtain our own books. I look for bargains and have my eyes open all during the year. I buy used copies, new ones, nearly free from paperback swap sites, etc. all year long. As I gather them up for future use, I just keep my Year Plan and Unit lists updated. I watch for sales at Bookshelf Central and other sites, using standard shipping methods that are usually quite reasonable. Whatever I don’t have when we are about to start a new unit, I will finally buy from Amazon with my Prime membership and have them within two days of ordering. Please note that in order to save the most money I spread it out over a period of months rather than all at once. Then after we are finished with our books I keep what we want for the family library, then resell the ones we no longer need. All money from the sale of books goes back into the homeschool curriculum budget to buy more books. I feel that TOG is worth the cost because it is an excellent education for my child, and for that reason I am willing to sacrifice. All in all, the cost of the books are far less expensive than private school."

 

As to learning more about TOG, I agree that a person needs to obtain the 3 week sample in order to get a good feel for how it works. So far I have purchased used hard copy versions, and that has helped save money too. When I'm done with them I can sell the curriculum because it has a pretty good resale value, then like the other books I sell, put the money right back into our homeschool budget for more books and curriculum.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Woodland_Mom]

April in NC,

 

Wow! What a helpful post! Thank you for sharing such a detailed description of TOG. I own one unit, and have played with it a lot, but I still learned several new things about TOG. I've thought for a long time that I'd use TOG for high school, but your post makes me want to reassess my plans!

 

In all honesty, I'm a happy MFW user, but I'm easily tempted by other great products that are out there.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Thanks for the great overview of TOG. I WAS more drawn by WP.... but now am leaning towards TOG. I will download the samples today! Thanks! I think we will try it after finishing up Adventures in MFW over the summer. I wasn't aware that it was a get the books from the library program. This is a good cost saver!

[HSMom2One]

Thanks for the great overview of TOG. I WAS more drawn by WP.... but now am leaning towards TOG. I will download the samples today! Thanks! I think we will try it after finishing up Adventures in MFW over the summer. I wasn't aware that it was a get the books from the library program. This is a good cost saver!

 

People that DO use the library for TOG resource books (please refer back to my other post), most often purchase the books that are used for multiple weeks because it is pretty hard in most cases to keep books on loan for more than the normal length of time. Just thought I'd throw that in as you consider possibilities.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[lovelaughs_times_three]

I've used Winter Promise a lot. What, in particular, did you want to know about it? We have really enjoyed it. The program uses so many different approaches. We are studying Lewis & Clark right now. We have a book we read, we have notebook pages to do, we have a DVD we watch, we went to a web-site with wonderful information, pictures and games, and we have hands-on activities. Lewis & Clark were also mentioned in the biography we read about Thomas Jefferson. By the time we approach the subject from so many different angles, I feel like my children really "get it" and have a deeper understanding of the subject than they ever would have from a textbook or one single book. That's what I have liked about WP. They incorporate hands-on activities; rich, vibrant "living" books; DVD suggestions; web-sites; notebooking; hands-on activities and crafts; narration; read-alouds and so much more! It is a buffet of educational approaches and it has really appealed to me and my kids. We move very slowly through the programs, because we like to do so much, but I feel they really learn the material. And it's fun! I think one of the goals of WP is to find ways of learning that are effective, but also fun and full of experiences. I have used their history, science and language programs. Let me know if there is something in particular you were wanting to know...

Kimberly

[SnowWhite]

We are longtime WinterPromise satisfied users. I do think it caters more to visual and hands on learners instead of auditory learners. The books are visually beautiful and the projects are very kinesthetically oriented and visual. If your child spends hours coloring, drawing, cutting things out: WP is likely the program for you. If your child prefers to listen to stories and do more verbal work, TOG would be a better fit (from what I have read by other people who use it and recommend it).

 

We have used: I'm Ready to Learn, Animals and Their Worlds, part of Hideaways in History (was trying to do two programs and wimped out!), American Story 1 and 2, World Around Me science, and Adventures in the Sea and Sky. We've also used WP Language Arts, Basic K and Grades 1-3. Their themed readers are AWESOME! I have always been satisfied with our WP purchases, but since it's a small family company I plan on waiting a bit to receive the order. On occasion I did remind them of a book left out (easy to overlook in an order with nearly a hundred line items!). Then it appeared with great speed!

[teachmejoy]

Thanks for the great overview of TOG. I WAS more drawn by WP.... but now am leaning towards TOG. I will download the samples today! Thanks! I think we will try it after finishing up Adventures in MFW over the summer. I wasn't aware that it was a get the books from the library program. This is a good cost saver!

 

I'm a WP fan as well and actually have been collecting programs to use for the next few years. I'm planning on doing AS1 for this next year, AS2 and Children around the World are on the backburner. Of course, after finding good deals and used books for them, I see TOG. Now I'm really wondering if I would prefer TOG. Of course, my husband would KILL me if I up and decided to switch! :tongue_smilie: I'm thinking about waiting until DS is in 5th and DD is 1st and switching to TOG.

 

I guess I will start AS1 and if I'm not thrilled, re-assess mid year. I did do Animals with my DS for Kinder and I totally re-scheduled most of the books. I really was hoping that AS1 didn't do that too much...

[calandalsmom]

I really like a lot of WP's offerings. We have used Animal Worlds, Forensic science, LA 2 and 3, and I am ordering Royals and Revolutionaries this year.

 

I do find their scheduling choppy, but I think they really hit on some good lit for kids (they include Bruchac and Ehrdich instead of somewhat outdated and possibly offensive works about native people)

 

I also plan to order their LA 5 program this year (with the early american history readers) and next yr will use the LA 3 for my younger child.

 

I am VERY smitten with the LA worktexts they have produced starring Scout the dog. I wish they had samples of the gr 6 worktext bc I suspect I'd like it very much too, but my older ds is doing well with Daily Grams...so...

 

I'd sort of like to buy their American history set for my 2 younger ones to do together while I do QRR with the oldest, but I think it would be too much and I have SL 3 and love it.

 

I will definitely steal book ideas from WP tho- the Betsy Maestro books they use are an excellent addition to any american history study with small people.

[HSMom2One]

I'm thinking about waiting until DS is in 5th and DD is 1st and switching to TOG.

 

I think that sounds like a really wise plan. If I had more than one child to hs, I would do the same thing, although I know many people do start when their dc are younger. After having done what we have so far with TOG, I don't think I'd start before my oldest was in 5th grade.

 

That being said, I didn't even know about WP when we were new to hs'ing. If I'd known back then what I know now, I would have loved to use it when my dd was younger then switch over to TOG for UG or D level and beyond. WP looks like a really rich program and we would most likely have enjoyed it a lot too. TOG is very heavy into history, but after going heavy on the literature side with lots of visuals to go along with it as WP seems to do - I think it would be a great progression.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[joyfulhomeschooler]

We are longtime WinterPromise satisfied users. I do think it caters more to visual and hands on learners instead of auditory learners. The books are visually beautiful and the projects are very kinesthetically oriented and visual. If your child spends hours coloring, drawing, cutting things out: WP is likely the program for you. If your child prefers to listen to stories and do more verbal work, TOG would be a better fit (from what I have read by other people who use it and recommend it).

 

 

 

Uh oh. What do I do if I have one of each lol. My 7yr old son is a definate auditory learner who doesn't much like to cut and past, color, or use any manipulative type stuff at all. And my 5yr old daughter is the one who LOVES these activities. I bet she would do really well with WP and he would do really well with TOG.

 

I wonder if it would be best to go with the more hands on and get the history readers for the oldest's learning style that way they are both getting what they like.

 

OR

Go with TOG and just add in extra hands on stuff for my daughter.

[kolamum]

We have one of each and are using WP.. my crafty person can do the crafts, my listener can enjoy the books. :)

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Thanks everyone. I am still not decided and may just go with SL 1+2 because we have the books and the guide is being offered to me by a friend. I definately know more about the programs now though. I don't know what to do?!?

[Blueridge]

:confused:

 

 

We have always had excellent shipping service from HOD!

 

YES!! Me, too! I feel SO badly that I wrote HOD by mistake. I've corrected my post.

[HSMom2One]

Uh oh. What do I do if I have one of each lol. My 7yr old son is a definate auditory learner who doesn't much like to cut and past, color, or use any manipulative type stuff at all. And my 5yr old daughter is the one who LOVES these activities. I bet she would do really well with WP and he would do really well with TOG.

 

I wonder if it would be best to go with the more hands on and get the history readers for the oldest's learning style that way they are both getting what they like.

 

OR

Go with TOG and just add in extra hands on stuff for my daughter.

 

Oh but there ARE hands-on activities with TOG! With each and every unit there is at least one arts & activities recommendation on the book resource list, plus there are really great lapbooks to make. We buy the lapbook kits and have enjoyed them a whole lot. Also the book recommendations have tons of ideas for wonderful projects to make. I have no idea how this compares with WP, but one should not assume that TOG doesn't have much to offer in this area because it does.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Oh but there ARE hands-on activities with TOG! With each and every unit there is at least one arts & activities recommendation on the book resource list, plus there are really great lapbooks to make. We buy the lapbook kits and have enjoyed them a whole lot. Also the book recommendations have tons of ideas for wonderful projects to make. I have no idea how this compares with WP, but one should not assume that TOG doesn't have much to offer in this area because it does.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

Isn't one unit 9 weeks? I would prefer to do something hands-on once a week. Do you think this would be the case with TOG?

[kchara]

Oh, there's at LEAST one activity per week with ToG!! Usually a whole bunch to choose from. I can't even recall a week where we didn't have some sort of activity. In our house, our problem is usually picking and choosing. I have a very hands on learner, too.

 

Also, ToG has a lapbook for each unit and year available. You might look into that for her. I'm getting one for my LG this year. My UGs don't like the lapbooks so much anymore, they prefer notebooking. But it's perfect for an LG.

[paula j]

Thanks everyone. I am still not decided and may just go with SL 1+2 because we have the books and the guide is being offered to me by a friend. I definately know more about the programs now though. I don't know what to do?!?

 

That's not a bad idea, SL core 1+2 was our very favorite year. We used the Story of the World activity guide to add hands on activities and had a great time. We did everything from making a chicken mummy to dressing in togas.:D

[TracyP]

Oh, there's at LEAST one activity per week with ToG!! Usually a whole bunch to choose from. I can't even recall a week where we didn't have some sort of activity. In our house, our problem is usually picking and choosing. I have a very hands on learner, too.

 

 

:iagree:

 

To clarify what Lucinda said, there is one book per unit. They use that book to offer several activities per week and usually some activities from outside the book as well.