When do you start mapping out high school plans?

[Samiam]

Okay, my head is swirling and imploding!!

 

My oldest DS will be 8th grade in the fall. I am a planner by nature, so have had high schools plans floating in my head for the last few years, and have picked curriculum with the future years in mind.

 

Should I be heavy-duty mapping out his high school plans now? I probably could, just get it all down on paper or something. Should I wait until near the of 8th grade. Is that too late?

 

If you have a high-schooler now, when did you start really mapping out those four years, or did you just take it year by year? Do you regret not doing it sooner? Or did you do it too soon?

 

Help!!:willy_nilly:

[G5052]

I took the advanced, college-prep course requirements from the local high school plus the recommended sequence from the local community college and three state schools that we are targetting. Then I put the credits in years and listed what books I'm planning.

 

This summer I'll probably write the course descriptions for next year so that's done.

 

I began working on this late in 8th grade.

 

Of course something always happens that blows things out of the water, but that's our target at least...!

[elegantlion]

My ds will start 8th in the fall as well. I've had high school penciled in for the last year or so.

 

I have an entire binder filled with information. I keep notes on individual subjects, how I might need to sequence classes, what certain colleges want to see, etc.

 

I know the plans will change, but I'm trying to get a layout of where I need my core credits and where electives will fall. For instance I want him to take math all 4 years, geometry in 9th, algebra II in 10th. Beyond that I put an X, since I'm not sure which direction he'll want to go with math.

 

In my case I'm doing a lot of self-education before I teach. I need a plan at least a year out so I can get all my studies completed.

Edited April 22, 2011 by elegantlion
after coffee corrections

[AngieW in Texas]

I have one in 12th, one in 10th, and one in 7th right now. Plans have changed from what I thought they would be every year.

 

The things I knew needed to happen were 4 years each of English, history, math, and science. Then I knew we needed 1-2 more courses each year. I wanted each of my kids to have 3 foreign language credits, 1 fine arts credit, 2 p.e. credits, 0.5 health credit, 0.5 personal finance credit and then electives for the rest.

 

What my oldest has done (graduating next month):

4 years English (used US History-based writing and Windows to the World for two credits, floundered for one year and just required essays, used cc class for final year of English)

4 years history (used SL Cores 100 and 300 for two credits, ps textbook for one year, and Thinkwell for final year)

4 years science (used Miller&Levine Biology - hated it, Spectrum Chemistry - wasn't impressed, Hewitt's Conceptual Physics - wasn't impressed, final year at cc she did one semester of physics and one semester of chemistry, she was signed up for a 2nd semester of physics, but the teacher she got for 2nd semester was awful so she dropped it)

4 years math (used Jacobs Geometry, Kinetic Books Algebra II, Larson's Precalculus - wasn't impressed, and final year has been one semester of statistics and one semester of trigonometry at the cc)

0.5 credit health - I designed a program myself for this, but I wasn't happy with it.

0.5 credit personal finance - used Dave Ramsey's high school course - excellent

1 credit fine arts - took two semesters of drawing at cc

2 credits p.e. - worked out with me at gym

3 credits foreign language - took 3 semesters Japanese at cc (each semester counts for a full high school credit)

electives - digital imaging, psychology

 

My middle dd has followed a different path.

4 years English (used US History-based writing and Windows to the World for one credit, used Oak Meadow English 10 for one credit, and will probably use cc for next year and then I'm not sure what to use for 12th grade)

4 years history (used Oak Meadow for 9th and 10th and will use it again for 11th, probably will do Government at cc in 12th)

4 years science (used Holt Biology in 9th, using Giancoli's Physics in 10th, will use Tro's Introductory Chemistry in 11th, cc for biology and/or chemistry in 12th)

4 years math (used Jacobs Geometry, Kinetic Books Algebra II, will use Lial's Precalculus next year, will probably use Lial's Calculus for 12th and may also take statistics at cc in 12th)

0.5 credit health - used Oak Meadow for this

0.5 credit personal finance - plan to use this the summer between 11th and 12th

1 credit fine arts - taking piano lessons for this

2 credits p.e. - did gymnastics last year, but is working out on a schedule this year

3 credits foreign language - using Visual Link Spanish this year for Spanish I, will take Spanish I and II (possibly III) at cc

electives - Philosophy of Mind wiht Teaching company last year, taking psychology this summer, will probably take some other elective like Ethics

[KAR120C]

...Vague at first and more detailed as things get closer. Generally, I like to know where we're going and how we're going to get there. So even when DS was a preschooler I had a broad overview -- if I had 15 years before he went to college, how would we spend that time to get to the things I wanted him to get to and end up ready. Not that everything was spelled out to the letter, only that I knew there were possibilities I liked and time to get to them all.

 

But for real, in-depth plans? I think I started really pinning things down when he was starting middle school. Both because the "end" was starting to loom, and because DS has some very particular goals in mind that take some significant planning ahead.

 

Nothing is set in stone of course, even when we're in the thick of it things change. It's more of a flow-chart (if x then y else z... LOL) rather than a set checklist. Honestly I just feel better having a plan, even when I know it's unlikely to play out in real life the way it does on paper! It's only once I have it written down that I can stop obsessing, file it away for later, and go on with today.

[angela in ohio]

I had come up with a rough plan and looked at our curriculum options before starting 7th, as I knew I wanted to spend 7th and 8th preparing them for high school. Then I started really mapping out high school during 8th grade. It took me the better part of 8th grade to get everything ready.

 

I'd get your 8th grade year going, iron out any kinks, etc., and then start working on high school plans early in the 8th grade year.

[Hunter]

Is entering a 4 year college at age 18, truly and absolutely, a definite and attainable goal? If not PLAN for junior college. PLANNING for junior college is something homeschoolers seldom do. Signing up at a 2 year college is often what they do when their 4 year goals don't work, and after a lot of frustration and wasted money and heartache and confusion and fear.

 

Graduating from a 2 year college, and then transferring to a 4 year college is a much easier and cheaper route, not just during the college years, but also during the high school prep.

 

I like American School's GENERAL program for grades 8-10 and early entrance as a FRESHMAN at the junior college. At age 18 the student has a college degree and has so many more oppurtinities open to them. If they go away to a 4 year college with their peers, their earning potential is much higher than their peers. They can work more hours, and at a higher pay, because they have already completed so many courses. They can take advantage of more internship oppurtunities.

 

American School's GENERAL program only takes about 2 hours a day for about 3 years. The family can still fit in plenty of other things.

[Kareni]

You might read past threads that were tagged 'high school planning'. There is a lot of wisdom there.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[FaithManor]

I started mapping in 7th grade as individual talents and interests really began to shine. My current 5th almost 6th grader (10 y.o.) is adamant about attending MIT so I've already begun planning a sequence plus extra-curriculars that will help him achieve that goal. One thing is certain, he is a math/physics nut and is definitely talented in that area. So, even if he doesn't decide to land at MIT, nothing I've planned will in any way hurt his chances of going to other excellent STEM schools and given his drive, personality, and general likes, a STEM field is absolutely where he will land.

 

My oldest at first wanted to go into aeronautical engineering at Emory Riddle. We began a high school year with that in mind and some time during her sophomore year, she decided that she wanted to go into veterinary medicine. That is still a STEM related field so her course sequence was just fine. In her senior year, she decided to go into human medicine. Thankfully, she was in pre-calc, taking advanced physics, anatomy and physiology, and finishing formal logic. Additionally, she'd had Latin along with her modern foreign lanaguage which was actually quite impressive to admission's departments. Since she didn't make a radical change in direction, the plan still worked.

 

DS, our next oldest and just beginning high school work, has been rather torn. He loves computer programming and he is talented at it. His dad, a database architect, is teaching him Visual Basic Programming (this fall he will begin earning high school credit as dh has devised a very good, rigorous course for him) and video game design. I honestly thought this is the way he would go even though he HATES MATH. But, he's told us several times that this is just a side interest and he still very much loves his writing, Latin, and history. He has also said his dream would be to get into the CS Lewis College that is opening in Massachusetts in 2012. This has created a bit of a quandary for me because though they are on target to open for a freshman class in September 2012, they have not released what their ideal student qualifications will be, tuition/room/board costs, how many scholarships will be handed out, etc. We just don't have a clue what their requirements are going to be. So, we are just pursuing a rigorous classical, high school education that will include an intensive Great Books Study of CS Lewis' books, three years of Latin, three years of German, possibly a year of Greek, some electives in English from MIT opencourseware, four years of art history, history electives from MIT opencourseware, four years of math - he just wasn't quite ready for algebra 1 in 8th grade though he has picked it back up again and should be 1/3 of the way through by fall so my estimate is that he'll make it through trig-pre-calc but no further, practical drafting, and he will keep up with three or four years of programming just in case he changes his mind. He is actively pursuing several writing competitions through 4-H and after our poetry study this year, I'm hoping he will show an affinity for that and will enter a couple of poetry contests. Ultimately, I just don't know what it is going to take to get him into that school on scholarship and I'm hoping he won't consider getting into Hillsdale in Michigan as some sort of second rate plan. It's hard to see him putting all of his hopes into one school because he admission's process can be so hap-hazard if the bulk of the applicants are all good choices for the school. He is going to be pursuing working as a page in the statehouse his senior year which will get him recommendations from our local state representative and he's eligible to serve on the national 4-H youth council. Hopefully some of these civic opportunities will help. But since he'd been saying for two years that game design was his first love, I'd been pushing a more STEM related plan and am now quickly devising a change in emphasis.

 

The middle boy....he's my real dilemna. He is certain he wants to get a physics degree and then go into the Air Force. My problem is that I'm convinced that he's mostly attracted to "planes and flying fast planes" than he is the actual military itself. Additionally, while a VERY quick learner, he is a little absent-minded (not a good thing with multi-million/billion dollar vehicles) and though an excellent/talented mathematician from the standpoint of understanding the logical processes in math, seeing the beauty of math, etc. he is not an accurate mathematician. He is not consistent. This does not bode well for a physics major. On top of that, he is startlingly talented with animals, dealing with sick critters, researching their care, etc. and he's a natural born mountain man. So, as a parent, I see Veterinary Medicine, Zoology, and DNR work as a far better choice for both his natural bent and his happiness and well being. I think that physics and the Air Force, by in large, represent a "cube dwelling" life that will make him miserable in the end. Thankfully, both physics and vet science are STEM fields so his path will be the same, and with 4-H opportunities, I can get a lot of natural resource and conservation experiences included. He's an excellent candidate for Michigan State University's 4-H Vet Science or Conservation scholarship and our veterinarian is a State grad who has a lot of pull in the vet/agricultural school. He's willing to write recommendations for ds so I have high hopes that ds will eventually change his mind.

 

Ultimately, it worked out very well for us to develop plans for dd by 7th grade and so we will continue to do so for the boys. I think junior high is a great time to get kids exposed to a wide variety of topics/career options, etc. and to be evaluating their natural strengths and weaknesses. Plans can always be changed and tweaked as the student matures, but I personally think that waiting until the freshman year to begin formulating an idea what path the student might take, is too late.

 

Faith

[regentrude]

I know what I require of both my kids - even though DS is only in 6th grade:

4 years of math

4 years of science

4 years of English

4 years of history

4 years of the same foreign language

1-2 electives each year

 

(This is above the graduation requirements of the state and above the entrance requirements for non selective schools - it is what we parents consider necessary.)

We start the highschool science sequence with an algebra/trig based physics class, followed by chemistry, AP biology, and a calculus based physics class. We are aiming for math through calculus, with the math curriculum already selected.

What exactly we are going to do in English and history is not set in stone and will be tweaked; the kids will get slightly different literature selections to account for their specific interests.

The electives will reflect the children's individual preferences and will be used to personalize their education. They may contain more math and science if the kids desire.

[regentrude]

Graduating from a 2 year college, and then transferring to a 4 year college is a much easier and cheaper route,

 

But may hinder the student's chances to be admitted to a highly selective school - many do not accept transfer students (there is a thread on the CollegeBoard subforum just now).

So, not good advice for a student interested in attending one of these.

 

Also, quality of community college varies greatly. Be sure to research your specific CC beforehand to make sure that the courses are rigorous. If not, the student may receive a better education at home.

[Jane in NC]

I like American School's GENERAL program for grades 8-10 and early entrance as a FRESHMAN at the junior college. At age 18 the student has a college degree and has so many more oppurtinities open to them. If they go away to a 4 year college with their peers, their earning potential is much higher than their peers. They can work more hours, and at a higher pay, because they have already completed so many courses. They can take advantage of more internship oppurtunities.

 

American School's GENERAL program only takes about 2 hours a day for about 3 years. The family can still fit in plenty of other things.

 

Well....The Mathematics in the American School's General Program is pretty skimpy. It only consists of two Pre-algebra courses and Algebra I. Frankly, I would not give 3 high school math credits for this.

 

Hunter, what does your student do with the rest of the hours in his day? Is he rounding out the program so that he rises above the streamlined basics?

[beachnut]

I started planning for hs while my oldest DS was in 7th grade. He took Algebra 1 in 7th grade, which led me to figure out where this math progression would take him in hs. Before I knew it, I had roughly planned out all 4 years for all core subjects by the time he entered 8th grade. He then gave me some input about electives, so I'm trying to fit in what he wants (lots of art, music, theater & digital design) with what I'd like him to take (logic, speech, debate, personal finance, SAT prep). I keep tweaking the schedule and understand it is very flexible. And, as my DS gets older & more mature, he will have more input in what he wants to take. But for now, I like to have a plan so I know what I'm shooting for. We can always change things later, and I'm sure we'll do so each year. Plus, we're trying to schedule some of the things over the summer (like his online Latin course) to lighten up his schedule a bit for the regular school year (Aug.-May).

[mcconnellboys]

I started doing some high school level courses with my older son in middle school and did map out a course for high school (we thought he might go to college early). He decided to back up and return to a traditional school as a sophomore but I still have those plans.

 

I haven't done as much high school level work with my younger son because I know that we're not interested in him finishing hs early or anything. I have started planning out his ninth grade coursework and I can also use some of my earlier plan, although he's a different kid and there will be a different emphasis on his education, I think....

[Rhonda in TX]

I've been looking at the requirements for PS, state university, and a couple of private universities for a couple of years now. I know that I'm going to require 4 years in each of the following: English, Math, History, and Science. I also want 2 years of PE and Foreign Language. Other classes will depend on the interests of my children, but I am aiming for a certain number of credit hours.

 

As of right now, we are looking at using textbooks and have all 4 years mapped out for that. However, I don't know exactly what the future holds, and things may change. My plans are flexible enough to allow for some customization (like taking cc classes).

[Hunter]

My boys are both grown and in their 20s now. I'm still here because I'm self-educating.

 

Junior college maths start with college algebra, which at some school is a step up from algebra 2, but often it is only algebra 2. Since American School only takes 2 hours, it is easy to add in some more math.

 

Some junior colleges only require specialized math, based on basic math, for some of their 2 year degrees.

 

Both of my boys did a lot of Bible study. One worked a LOT (to be honest...he was breaking the law) and the other did a lot of Greek, Latin, extra math, and Great Books, and used some of the AS college prep courses as electives.

 

I made the mistake of getting talked into having the younger son drop out of AS general program to have more time for some private online tutoring that did not pan out and I DEPPLY regret doing that! I had him take the GED and it all worked out...but...it was a mistake.

 

I'm a big believer in making smaller and definate goals, finish one and move on to the next one.

 

I have a friend who started a junior college at 40, doing remedial classes and then moved onto their most challenging ones. When It came time for her to transfer...I was SHOCKED at how attractive she was to the schools she was applying to. They were courting her so aggressively and she was offered scholarships at both private and public schools. Her junior college did have a good reputation. She ended choosing a private, all female college, and graduated last year.

[Trilliums]

My oldest son will be a high schooler NEXT year, but still thought I'd chime in. My kids stay involved in making their educational choices. This year both my kids are in middle school and we sat down to discuss various career and educational options. This has been an ongoing household discussion over the years, but this time we were in future planning mode. =) We went through potential scenarios for educational paths. Since they both felt a 4 year college path in a STEM field was a good fit for them, we went over the general guidelines of classes they should take in order to give them the foundation needed for their areas of interest. We will make the specific class content decisions for each year closer to said year. They will definitely be taking some classes at the local high school and at cc, so we have to fit their schedules to what is offered when.

 

I know I feel VERY overwhelmed by the whole high school process and worrying about fitting in all the right things. Trying to write down the specifics actually makes me feel more anxious, but having a general outline (4 years math, 4 years science w 3 labs, etc etc) helps me see it as do-able.

[justamouse]

in kindergarten?

 

wrong answer?

 

Sixth grade?

 

:D

[angela in ohio]

in kindergarten?

 

wrong answer?

 

Sixth grade?

 

:D

 

A friend and I went to a talk on teaching SAT writing a few years ago at a convention. Both of our oldest were in 6th grade. Before it started, we were chatting with the woman behind us. She asked if she really needed to be there yet, since her oldest was only in 11th grade. We shared our dc's ages and :lol:.

[Avila]

I may get laughed at, but my oldest is a 6th grader and I went to our local College night to get info from the colleges on what they are looking for in a high school transcript. I think some of us may be surprised at exactly how much things have changed since we were in high school. And in TX, things are in the process of changing, so much so that moms I know who are graduating kids this year under current standards are having to re-evaluate for their current middle schoolers to make sure they are taking enough math, science and foreign language to make them competitive.

 

So I don't think anywhere middle school and up is too early!

[Hunter]

I think it is very important to hear what children have to say about their own future, but unless they have PROVEN to be capable and willing to self-educate, high school plans need to stay FIRMLY within mom's comfort zone and take into account mom's teaching style and available resources.

 

I let myself get overwhelmed by my younger son's shifting plans and his "giftedness" and LDs and pushed myself FAR outside of what I could teach while staying healthy and having a life of my own.

 

When we have a child who is dependent on being spoon fed, we need to set smaller goals especially if mom is low income and/or poorly educated herself, and has other children. If a child is willing to self-educate, then the child should have a LOT more to say about goal planning.

 

I used to think that my role as teacher, should be evaluated soley by the child's performance and that just isn't so. Sometimes a mom is doing a fantastic job, even if a child is performing at a mediocre level, and vice versa.

 

High school shouldn't be a time of fear and guilt and confusion. If it is, it's time to take a step back. If a family is Christian reading Ecclesiastes is helpful.

 

Planning EVERYTHING around entrance to a selective 4 year college at age 18 as the the #1 priority, is very poor planning for many families. Yes, for some families it would be negligent to do anything other than to plan to prepare for a selective 4 year school. I think those families are the minority not the majority though.

[regentrude]

unless they have PROVEN to be capable and willing to self-educate, high school plans need to stay FIRMLY within mom's comfort zone and take into account mom's teaching style and available resources.

 

I look at it from a completely different angle: I consider it an important goal to GET my children ready to self-educate by the time they begin high school. Otherwise, staying within my abilities to teach, I am severely limiting their education - even though I have a graduate degree.

Come high school, they should NOT be dependent on what I can teach, but should be able to utilize resources OUTSIDE my comfort zone. Ideally, they should be able to seek out resources and follow their interests.

To me, getting them ready to do that is an important goal of the Middle grades.

 

I let myself get overwhelmed by my younger son's shifting plans and his "giftedness" and LDs and pushed myself FAR outside of what I could teach while staying healthy and having a life of my own.

 

I don't think I should have to teach much to a high school age student.

Most subjects I am not qualified to teach that this level - only math and physics. For all other subjects it would be presumptuous if I were attempting to teach them! In order to teach a subject at high school level, I would need at least a college degree in that subject, if not more. this doe snot mean my children can not LEARN these things - but it means we need to use the available resources and let experts teach - through books, websites, online courses...

Edited April 23, 2011 by regentrude

[lewelma]

Regentrude,

 

What HS curriculum do you plan to use that can be adapted to a self-teaching philosophy? Especially in literature and writing, which traditionally require more teacher involvement than something like math.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Ester Maria]

I have it easy, since the sequence is pre-planned for me: my daughters' high school education (5 years) will be a copy-paste of the Italian classical / scientific lycee route, with all the official requirements covered with outsourced examinations (i.e. no "mom grades"), plus they will have to do Italian maturita' exams, regardless of where they will be living at that point (and even regardless of whether they will even be homeschooled at that point!) and where they will plan to continue with their university educations. They can do more (SATs, high school diploma, Bac, Israeli bagrut, internationally recognized foreign language certificates, whatever they wish, really), but they cannot do less than that.

 

The "standard" includes:

- 5 years of Italian w/ literature

- 5 years of Latin w/ literature (both) + 5 years of Greek w/ literature (eldest) - they are both accelerated in these areas due to previous studies, so they will be doing things differently than "supposed"

- 5 years of foreign language w/ literature - here they will both be studying English with literature on a native language level, outsourced, largely comparable to what is done in American schools, because there is no point in addressing English as a "foreign" language to them, so they will "overdo" this category, so the middle will use that for her record, while the eldest will also study French with literature for the record

- 5 years of Math

- 5 years of Natural sciences (combined program)

- 5 years of History (with Geography in the first 2)

- 5 years of Art History (technically 3 for eldest, but we will flesh it out over 5 too) + Technical Drawing and more focus on architecture when studying Art History (for the middle, outsourced)

- last 3 years of Physics

- last 3 years of Philosophy

 

Obviously, the intensity will differ, not all areas will be treated the same way (do not get fooled by the number of subjects, some of that is just nicely fleshed out over several years what could be squeezed into less time if one wanted to do it the American style), but that is the basic, official scheme and we managed to squeeze into it our specific requirements for English too, and acknowledge that our children are at least somewhat accelerated with regard to several areas (particularly classics) and that often things will be fleshed out a bit differently, so in reality, they will exceed what will be officially written. We will be also "sneaking" basic Music History right there with Art History, because we find it important.

 

In addition to this, we as parents - nothing to do with official school records - require a more elaborated home version of "Hebrew school": Hebrew language with some level of literature, some level of Bible and some level of Judaic studies. We allow for a lot of flexibility in this area, making it more self-paced and a bit less structured for high school than it was before, but ultimately, the children still have to do something, in some organized fashion a certain number of hours weekly.

 

In addition to that, for now, the middle DD is taking drawing lessons, while the eldest DD has violin and music theory lessons.

 

That is a general plan (though for now it works, even if only the eldest is an officially a high schooler). I do not really see it changing no matter where we end up next (sure, they might have to learn one more language or even attend school for a while, but ultimately, we will still request the Italian education equivalent with exams and maturita' done, "Hebrew school" of some kind and native-language English studies, no matter where we end up), but there is always a theoretical possibility of something changing, of course.

[regentrude]

Regentrude,

What HS curriculum do you plan to use that can be adapted to a self-teaching philosophy? Especially in literature and writing, which traditionally require more teacher involvement than something like math.

 

 

We are following the WTM suggestions for literature/history. For a deeper understanding we supplement, for instance, with lectures from the Teaching Company. I can not teach Homer because I am not a classical scholar, so my task as a parent is to find a classical scholar to teach Homer to us (Dr. Vandiver was excellent). We are also planning to use Open Courseware (we will use the Yale lectures about Dante next school year).

As for writing, not being a native speaker of English I feel even less qualified to teach writing at this level. So far, I have been able to evaluate my kids' writing and to help improve it, but to be absolutely sure we are planning for DD to take an online AP Language class.

[Hunter]

Many high school students cannot or will not self-educate. No, mom doesn't need a college degree to teach a child who needs to be spoon fed. She just has to learn the material herself and then regurgitate it.

 

But if mom must self-educate and then regurgitate, then it's only fair that she set smaller goals without feeling guilty. In this situation it is only practical to plan on junior college.