If you weren't "normal" as a child yourself,

[La Condessa]

If you weren't "normal" as a child yourself, then how do you know what is reasonable to expect of your kids? I've been wondering about this for a while now as I have been researching and planning in advance for my kids.

 

The other day, I said to my husband that I figured I would start teaching Lizzie to read whenever she asked me, or when she turned five if she didn't ask on her own by then. His incredulous response was, "You're going to wait until she's five?!" Now, understand, he learned to read at the age of three with a little play-school instruction from his older brother. On the other hand, I didn't learn until Kindergarten, but I was reading the Lord of the Rings by the end of first grade. When I first started reading this forum, there was one of those threads asking for book recommendations for a _____ grader. I posted some of my childhood favorites, and then realized my answers were horribly out of place when I read through all of the other answers.

 

I plan on letting my kids move forward in subjects at whatever speed they're ready for, because I hated being held back to the speed of the class myself. But how do you know what is reasonable to expect of a child, I guess as a minimum?

[regentrude]

I plan on letting my kids move forward in subjects at whatever speed they're ready for, because I hated being held back to the speed of the class myself. But how do you know what is reasonable to expect of a child, I guess as a minimum?

 

As an absolute lowest minimum, I can look at what the public school is doing - that is what can be expected of an average learner of that age, because that's what ps is geared towards.

Reasonable for my children is whatever they can accomplish with a "normal" amount of work and effort. I expect that they spend a certain amount of time on school and put an effort in- whatever they accomplish, is "reasonable". (For example, this means that it is perfectly reasonable to expect my DS to be able to solve systems of linear equations, and to expect him to still have slight trouble with quadratic equations. It is reasonable to expect my DD to read Homeric epics and Plato. )

 

I really find this no more difficult than judging when I can expect them to walk or talk - I just observe them and talk to them. I believe that an observant parent notices when the children are not engaged in their school work and when demands are unreasonable. A student becomes bored if too little is expected, and a student becomes frustrated if too much is expected.

I have learned to completely disregard what other people consider reasonable for their children - this has absolutely no relevance for my expectations regarding my children.

[Dmmetler]

What I've run into here is that DH and I were both very advanced-so what we tend to think of as normal, isn't. DH's reason for wanting DD to take the standardized test offered through our area homeschool group was that he "wanted to know if she was behind on anything". Realistically, I'm bringing home books from the college library for my 6 yr old to keep up with her in science. I somehow doubt a 1st grade test is going to be much of a challenge. But for him, for us, this is "normal".

 

It's also a constant struggle to remind myself that, yes, it's OK that DD still has to count to figure out how to tell time beyond the nearest 15 minutes-that's normal for a 6 yr old, even though she's happily working through the Hands on Equations materials I bought, without using the balance. (When, oh, when am I going to learn NOT to buy manipulatives for this child). Just because she's advanced in some areas doesn't mean she is going to be advanced in everything. Sometimes that's hard for mommy to grasp.

 

Keeping up with what the public schools are doing helps, and so is being around other children, of a wide range of abilities, which helps me see what "normal" is-and also helps me to see that every parent has some areas where their child is ahead, some where their child is behind, some where their child pushes themselves, and some where they need a little pushing and support. It's simply that DD is a little more widely spread than most.

[La Condessa]

Thank you both.

[Jenny in Florida]

I really find this no more difficult than judging when I can expect them to walk or talk - I just observe them and talk to them. I believe that an observant parent notices when the children are not engaged in their school work and when demands are unreasonable. A student becomes bored if too little is expected, and a student becomes frustrated if too much is expected.

I have learned to completely disregard what other people consider reasonable for their children - this has absolutely no relevance for my expectations regarding my children.

 

Exactly, on all counts.

[2smartones]

Yes. Ditto this. You'll "just know".

[SnegurochkaL]

I believe that an observant parent notices when the children are not engaged in their school work and when demands are unreasonable. A student becomes bored if too little is expected, and a student becomes frustrated if too much is expected.

I have learned to completely disregard what other people consider reasonable for their children - this has absolutely no relevance for my expectations regarding my children.

I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

My husband and I were not normal children. My husband could read before he could speak(at age of 2). I learned to read at age 7(it was normal where I grew up), but read "War and Peace" by Leo Tolstoy at age of 8. We have very high expectations from our kids. It doesn't matter what other parents are doing. We are not "normal".

Our kids are exposed to 6 languages which will benefit to them in future. Our goal as parents to help our children to learn and teach them how to study. I just wish I would have 48 hours instead of 24 hours every day:(

[Donna]

Reasonable for my children is whatever they can accomplish with a "normal" amount of work and effort. I expect that they spend a certain amount of time on school and put an effort in- whatever they accomplish, is "reasonable". (For example, this means that it is perfectly reasonable to expect my DS to be able to solve systems of linear equations, and to expect him to still have slight trouble with quadratic equations. It is reasonable to expect my DD to read Homeric epics and Plato. )

 

I really find this no more difficult than judging when I can expect them to walk or talk - I just observe them and talk to them. I believe that an observant parent notices when the children are not engaged in their school work and when demands are unreasonable. A student becomes bored if too little is expected, and a student becomes frustrated if too much is expected.

I have learned to completely disregard what other people consider reasonable for their children - this has absolutely no relevance for my expectations regarding my children.

 

:iagree: I think you need to figure out what is "normal" for your child and that works whether your child is ahead of the game or functioning below the average ___ yo.

 

Having a good working knowledge of the sequence for particular skills is key. Public school standards or books that let you know what a particular grade level child should be able to do might give you and outline for that. Being around a lot of different children will also help you to realize that normal is different for every child.

 

It is important to match your expectations to your child and if you work with them daily you will know when they are engaged and learning. When homeschooling we are able to look beyond grade levels to what is important knowledge-wise no matter how old our children are. We know that a child must have a firm grasp of A and B before they will easily be able to master C. Normal for your child might be intuitive understanding of A, B, and C and going through A and B to make sure she understands them would be painfully boring to them.

 

We are also able to adjust input and output levels for our children because a 5yo who reads and understands Lord of the Rings may not be able to write a paper with a good thesis on a particular topic in the book like a high school student. But you would know your own child and know that the child is only writing simple sentences or his hand gets tired because writing is difficult for him or he comprehends the story but not the underlying meaning of the book or that he doesn't have the life experience to come up with a complex thesis for a particular topic or maybe he can verbalize a good argument and you can type it or write it for him and any one of those may be normal for your child.

[Ester Maria]

The absolute minimum would be the things they get tested on yearly in an Italian school - that would cover the lowest level of math, sciences, literature and general humanities that I could expect. While still quite a feeble base, on the higher levels (middle school and lycee) it pretty much parallels, if not tops, any American rigorous private school, because it will still include things such as literature in foreign languages and Latin, a thorough art history, chronologically approached history, upper level maths with symultaneous sciences, etc.

 

Three expections:

- For English, the absolute minimum goes by the American (native language and literature) standards, not by the Italian standards for ESL, because it makes no sense to require the latter of children who have spent most of their lives overseas speaking English as their dominant language;

- I insist on pretty much covering the classical lycee content of Latin (and somewhat less for Greek), even if the child in question does not opt for a classical school, however, as we start classics younger and I organize the material differently, that can be "finished" several years before the school is finished, at least Greek;

- For Hebrew and Judaics, it is extremely difficult to define what exactly we want, though we look into Israeli schools' Tanach standards and additional Israeli materials geared towards kids their age as a sort of general orientation, which results in fairly low standards, but you cannot have it all, I guess :(, so in many ways this is our "sacrificed" area.

 

Those are pretty much our minimums for various areas, which with the exception of classics correspond with typical expectations of kids their age. We also modified our sciences and math approach, but nothing terribly out of sync with "the system" - just taking the approach from different systems (eldest DD is spending less time on that and mostly covering only her school requirements, while middle DD goes totally by that scheme). Each of them has some areas where she does the minimum, and other areas where she goes above and beyond what is expected. They may always go back to doing the minimal work, but then we take into account what they went through meanwhile and require minimal time, but starting from the level they reached already.

 

We have ups and downs, periods of being more formal and periods of basically disregarding any outside standards, it is one nice chaotic ride. :D But there is MUCH method in that madness.

Ultimately, you just have to know your kids, their limits, how much they should be stretched, but how not to overwhelm them. I also keep the grade inflation out of game and grade them accordingly, with respect and real criteria (they definitely do not have all As in my book).

 

I suppose that what I do with them is not that terribly different than just good ol' school system, both content-wise and standards-wise (except that we may cover more areas). The difference between average child and bright one is that the average child goes through that system with Ds, and bright one with Bs and As.

[catz]

My philosophy is probably similar to yours. Both of my kids started reading at kindergarten (my younger a little earlier). But my son was definitely reading at Lord of the Rings level by end of 1st or maybe sooner. My daughter is quickly approaching that level. Their gifts showed as preschoolers but not in "kindergarten academic" ways. My son had lots of science knowledge, math, understanding of plumbing and heating systems, and many many questions about death and life and the ways of the world. He wanted to listen to long books starting at 3. My daughter was intense, sensitive, curious, creative. She loves history and would talk at length about ancient Eygpt, pioneer days, Cleopatra, etc. Both are extremely perfectionist and have a really hard time with new things and transitions. I think if you have a 3 (or 2 or 8( year old interested in reading lessons, carry on. My kids learned SO much as preschoolers despite the fact they didn't really read. They are both visual spatial and very active too. And despite the fact they were both such cautious and shy toddlers, they are extroverted and very social now. I was always so shy in elementary school because I never felt like I fit in. There was no such thing as GT IDing when I went to school.

 

I'm a big fan of treating kids as individuals and balancing moderate and age appropriate daily challenges with plenty of play time, social time, activity time.

[Truscifi]

For me it has been important to remind myself that academic gifts don't automatically mean social/life skill gifts. For example, ds7 and I had a wonderful hour long discussion (initiated by him) about WWII. The same afternoon he totally spazzed out because he couldn't figure out how to organize his dinosaurs on his toy shelf so they would all fit neatly and not get him sent back to his room to clean again.

[MaMa2005]

Keeping up with what the public schools are doing helps, and so is being around other children, of a wide range of abilities, which helps me see what "normal" is-and also helps me to see that every parent has some areas where their child is ahead, some where their child is behind, some where their child pushes themselves, and some where they need a little pushing and support. It's simply that DD is a little more widely spread than most.

 

I think this is hugely important when dealing with an accelerated child. We often get into our own worlds with our children and don't realize just how advanced their abilities are until they are with 'normal' children. I think it is also extremely important for our children to associate with their age appropriate peers and not always with their cognitively appropriate peers. It is a learning process for our children to realize that not everyone is academically as advanced as they are. Our family has had great discussions regarding the differences in children after spending a day with an age appropriate peer. It is also opening DS's eyes to the varying abilities of those around him.

[Storm Bay]

I was the type of dc who was frustrated because I couldn't work as fast as I wanted to, and who finally gave up trying in high school because I was bored, fed up and had no long term ambitions that required A's (you had to do all your work and attend enough classes in order to get all As, plus you had to be a boy, because our male Phys Ed teacher apparently never gave a girl an A. Phys Ed was required almost every year.)

 

My minimimum is one grade per year, which, quite suprisingly to me, is what my dc prefer to do most of the time. My dd's could have done a lot more, but weren't highly motivated. When my dd's wanted to go to ps (one is there now, another wants to go in Sept) they were/are willing to go back to the grade levels of their age peers, even if it was honours, which is a grade up and harder for math, etc.

 

As for reading, my eldest one started reading around age 4, my middle one wasn't into it until 6.5, although we started at 5, but she didn't really like it much, and my ds later. I have recently learned that my ds needs vision therapy because his eyes don't work together, and this may well explain, why he hated reading for so long and why he has been such a reluctant scholar in everything except math, where he goes hot and cold.

[zaichiki]

I think this is hugely important when dealing with an accelerated child. We often get into our own worlds with our children and don't realize just how advanced their abilities are until they are with 'normal' children.

 

I respectfullly disagree. I think it's even more important for them to be around other kids who think like they do, so they can be "normal" and not always the one who is different.

 

It is a learning process for our children to realize that not everyone is academically as advanced as they are.

 

I dunno. I think this part is easy to pick up on when one is out and about in the daily world. (Although I guess it depends on where one lives.) It would be better, I think, if they were able to be in an environment where there were LOTS of other people with this inclination.

Our family has had great discussions regarding the differences in children after spending a day with an age appropriate peer. It is also opening DS's eyes to the varying abilities of those around him.

I agree that valuing other kids' variety of abilties is very important.

[MaMa2005]

I agree that valuing other kids' variety of abilties is very important.

 

zaichiki,

I see your point of view and perhaps mine is somewhat skewed at this point in time. We aren't really having problems with DS, but he has recently, on several occasions, been with age level peers that are 'average'. He is really struggling with the fact that he reads on an 8th grade level yet most of his friends are still working on CVC words. (He is still kind of puzzling over why they aren't like HIM?) Overall, DS functions on a 5th grade level, yet most 10-11 year olds aren't too interested in a 5 year old.

 

Oh, how I wish I could find other 5 year olds that are functioning on his level, but so far, nothing is available around us. We've just had some bad experiences recently, thus the slant of my comment.

[zaichiki]

zaichiki,

 

Oh, how I wish I could find other 5 year olds that are functioning on his level, but so far, nothing is available around us. We've just had some bad experiences recently, thus the slant of my comment.

 

Have you tried the Davidson YS program? You might be able to do some networking to find other young kids locally.

[Dmmetler]

I think the "being around other 6 yr olds" is important, not in academic ways, but in emotional and behavioral ones. Maybe because I heard and read so many horror stories during my high-risk pregnancy and immediately after, but I tend to assume the worst far too easily. It's helpful to be around other kindergarten girls to discover that they're ALL silly, annoying, sometimes have attitude issues, and can burst into tears at the drop of a hat, so I realize that, no, this isn't a sign of problems-it's just that, in this area, DD is acting 6!

[Rivka]

I think the "being around other 6 yr olds" is important, not in academic ways, but in emotional and behavioral ones. Maybe because I heard and read so many horror stories during my high-risk pregnancy and immediately after, but I tend to assume the worst far too easily. It's helpful to be around other kindergarten girls to discover that they're ALL silly, annoying, sometimes have attitude issues, and can burst into tears at the drop of a hat, so I realize that, no, this isn't a sign of problems-it's just that, in this area, DD is acting 6!

 

Yes, this. (My daughter turns six today!)

 

Right now, I'm relying on close observation and trial and error to set my daughter's workload. I expect her to work hard, but not necessarily longer or in a more sustained way than is developmentally appropriate for her age. So I keep recalibrating. I have thrown out I-don't-know-how-many reading lists because she keeps leaping past them.

[La Condessa]

So then, do you have any suggestions about how to handle it when my husband has very different expectations for our kids than I might?

 

On the reading issue, he's ahead of me, but in other areas he is mildly against acceleration. When I brought up an idea I had for how to plan their schooling so that they could move ahead in each subject at whatever pace they want (so long as they keep up with a certain minimum in each subject), he said, "Why on earth would you have them do that? Just let them do their work in whatever time it takes them and then let them go play!" I explained that I didn't mean to make them go faster, that this was just if they wanted to learn more and go quicker through material, and he expressed concerns that this would make them weird.

 

He was a lazy, gifted child who loved the fact that he never had to exert any effort at school, and he still doesn't see a problem with that. (Despite having barely scraped through law school because he never had to learn to work at learning until then!)

[mommymilkies]

I also was an advanced reader. I was sooooo abnormal in so many ways, but I know that I was abnormal, so I have realistic expectations. ;)

[SnegurochkaL]

So then, do you have any suggestions about how to handle it when my husband has very different expectations for our kids than I might?

 

On the reading issue, he's ahead of me

 

My husband being an early reader wanted my daughter to start reading at age 4, but I told him that my idea of acceleration was to start with math, so I did. I officially started to teach my child how to read when she was almost 6. She leaped through reading levels so quick that nobody would guess that she was a late reader.

 

Do what you think would work the best for your child. May be try to concentrate on some topics your child is especially interested in.

Mine are interested in Egyptology, so we are going to study Ancient Egypt history this summer.

 

If your husband doesn't agree with you, may be he would listen to your child's "request" to study something together.

 

My husband decided to teach my oldest daughter "pi" up to 20 digits after the comma because she asked him about it once:)

 

 

Now about being around your child's peers.

I don't really agree that average peers would be a good company for your child. My daughter has a close friend who is little older than her and they are on the same level. Some other girls whom she meets (little older too) have nothing in common with my child. They talk about stupid "empty" movies and some pop culture my daughter has no interests in, so she is left out. On other hand she has another friend who is just turn 5, speaks 2 languages fluently, and additionally had been studying Latin/Greek last 2 years. They like to have fun and chat when they meet.

 

If your child get involved in some sports (for example, like mine, skating) he will meet different age kids and it might be a good experience for him.

Edited April 12, 2011 by SneguochkaL

[Storm Bay]

I think the "being around other 6 yr olds" is important, not in academic ways, but in emotional and behavioral ones. Maybe because I heard and read so many horror stories during my high-risk pregnancy and immediately after, but I tend to assume the worst far too easily. It's helpful to be around other kindergarten girls to discover that they're ALL silly, annoying, sometimes have attitude issues, and can burst into tears at the drop of a hat, so I realize that, no, this isn't a sign of problems-it's just that, in this area, DD is acting 6!

:iagree: This reminds me of a story my dd's writing teacher told about her gifted granddaughter who is 6. One of her granddaughter's interests is human anatomy, etc, and she explained vomiting using nothing but medical terms, but ended the speech by imitating wretching in 6 yo fashion.

[Ritsumei]

:iagree: This reminds me of a story my dd's writing teacher told about her gifted granddaughter who is 6. One of her granddaughter's interests is human anatomy, etc, and she explained vomiting using nothing but medical terms, but ended the speech by imitating wretching in 6 yo fashion.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

I find it's useful for me to spend time with my son's age peers, for just this sort of "oh, that's just cuz he's 4" sort of things. Monkey, on the other hand, would prefer the company of older kids or teens, and even adults. He's recently invited over one of my friends & her 14-ish son, and asked for playdates with a 7yo... the 4yo little sister that's 2 weeks younger than Monkey is a tag-along. A welcome tag-along, but Monkey prefers the 7yo's company. But I still find it useful to watch my friends' 4yos just to know what's "normal."

[Ravin]

As someone who wasn't a normal kid, who apparently has one, I have regularly had to look at objective guidelines and measures to reassure myself there's not something wrong with my DD. If she was an accelerated learner I think I'd have just taken that in stride as what was to be expected.