8 year old out of control kid maced-- Mom mad.. has this been posted??

[MamaSheep]

I am further convinced more is going on here than meets the eye:

 

http://www.9news.com/news/article/192228/339/Grandfather-of-pepper-sprayed-boy-blames-trauma

 

John, who asked 9NEWS not to disclose his last name, said his grandson Aidan experienced a painful and private "trauma" prior to 2009, that has since triggered angry outbursts at school.

"Something traumatic has happened that's caused the problems," he said, "and I can't really go into it right now. It's confidential and under investigation."

"That's not excusing his behavior. But that's a reason why he acts out," he said.

 

[Princess Peach]

I used to work with kids in the PS who would act aggressively. We were trained to restrain them in a way that did not hurt the child or ourselves. We (that is, the mental health agency that I worked for) offered to train the special ed staff at the school. Two people were trained. But I don't think that is the norm.

 

The police were called in too late in this instance. They obviously felt like they could not restrain him without him or themselves getting hurt, so they used pepper spray. I think it was handled as well as can be expected.

[Brindee]

I know what you mean. I like the term "meltdown" better than "rage" because I agree, it's not about anger, it's more of an extreme fight or flight reaction.....

(I had to delete part of your post, cuz with what I said it made it too long.)

 

This is great information! I wish I would've understood this better years ago when I had an 8yo 2nd grader in my classroom that would "act out" like this. There were issues he had to deal with which made things hard for him. He would literally pick up desks and toss them at other kids and me. If we left him alone in the classroom he'd go crazy....yelling, ripping things up, throwing chairs and desks, etc. If I tried to stay with him, he'd try to throw things at me or bite, scratch and/or kick, as well as threatening to kill me, the other kids and teachers and blow up the school. I got lots of bruised shins, scratches and a couple of bites. Sometimes I could grab him and talk quietly and he'd start to calm down. Sometimes there was just no way for me to get near him.

 

I was never trained in this kind of behaviour. I was trained to teach, but never had any classes or training for this kind of thing.

 

ETA: This was a small Christian School on a reservation, so our resources were nil!

 

When a person is in that mode, there's not a lot you can do other than keep everyone safe and wait it out. Give the person some space, move slowly, speak soothingly--or better yet, don't speak.

When this boy was left alone, he'd be worse! When I was there, he'd still be going on and on. Sometimes, after waiting awhile, I'd call his name really loud and short. Now and then that would jerk him out of it, and he'd look around as if saying, "What just happened?!" But then he's start crying and be mad at himself. Sometimes I could hug him and that'd calm him down, but sometimes his frustration with himself would spin him back into acting out.

 

After the first couple of incidents I never allowed any of the students to be in there, or two of the other teachers (one of them was the principal too....small school). They were men, and would show annoyance, and say stuff like, "Just stop it right now!" That obviously didn't help!

 

What is a practical way to follow through what you said? Maybe it was just this boy, but neither way (staying or leaving) seemed to help him calm down any faster or better.

 

As I said, I never had any training. Are teachers trained to do this type of interention these days? Certainly if you're working in classrooms with these types of children. But in regular classrooms, is this a requirement now?

 

I'm just thinking that the examples used by posters here, the people worked in these types of classrooms, were trained with this and deal with it daily. I'm not sure the teachers in general classrooms have the training or could restrain a child going through this safely! It's amazing the strength the adrenaline and their "flight or fight" response can give them!

 

Anyway, like I said, I appreciated your post! It gave me a better understanding of what could be going on! Thank you!

Edited April 8, 2011 by Brindee

[pdalley]

(I had to delete part of your post, cuz with what I said it made it too long.)

 

This is great information! I wish I would've understood this better years ago when I had an 8yo 2nd grader in my classroom that would "act out" like this. There were issues he had to deal with which made things hard for him. He would literally pick up desks and toss them at other kids and me. If we left him alone in the classroom he'd go crazy....yelling, ripping things up, throwing chairs and desks, etc. If I tried to stay with him, he'd try to throw things at me or bite, scratch and/or kick, as well as threatening to kill me, the other kids and teachers and blow up the school. I got lots of bruised shins, scratches and a couple of bites. Sometimes I could grab him and talk quietly and he'd start to calm down. Sometimes there was just no way for me to get near him.

 

I was never trained in this kind of behaviour. I was trained to teach, but never had any classes or training for this kind of thing.

 

ETA: This was a small Christian School on a reservation, so our resources were nil!

 

When this boy was left alone, he'd be worse! When I was there, he'd still be going on and on. Sometimes, after waiting awhile, I'd call his name really loud and short. Now and then that would jerk him out of it, and he'd look around as if saying, "What just happened?!" But then he's start crying and be mad at himself. Sometimes I could hug him and that'd calm him down, but sometimes it'd spin him back into acting out.

 

After the first couple of incidents I never allowed any of the students to be in there, or two of the other teachers (one of them was the principal too....small school). They were men, and would show annoyance, and say stuff like, "Just stop it right now!" That obviously didn't help!

 

What is a practical way to follow through what you said? Maybe it was just this boy, but neither way (staying or leaving) seemed to help him calm down any faster or better.

 

As I said, I never had any training. Are teachers trained to do this type of interention these days? Certainly if you're working in classrooms with these types of children. But in regular classrooms, is this a requirement now?

 

I'm just thinking that the examples used by posters here, the people worked in these types of classrooms, were trained with this and deal with it daily. I'm not sure the teachers in general classrooms have the training or could restrain a child going through this safely! It's amazing the strength the adrenaline and their "flight or fight" response can give them!

 

Anyway, like I said, I appreciated your post! It gave me a better understanding of what could be going on! Thank you!

 

It would be better if the schools would teach all teachers about how to handle this if they insist on inclusion.

 

I was the rare parent who begged for my kids to be in a self contained classroom where there weren't so many people - the lights could be turned off - the pace was slower, etc. I was told that was tough - they were too high functioning to be in a self contained classroom.

 

Don't get me wrong - I have no wish to return to the days when I was in school and we never saw differently abled kids. I don't. I just think inclusion should be like anything else - risk vs reward. There wasn't a reward for my kids and certainly not for the poor teachers who had to deal with meltdowns. (I only EVER had an issue with one teacher during our ps years - it was the administration I could not tolerate and consistently refused to listen or follow the IDEA)

[Julie in CA]

Don't pass judgement on this mom, you have NO idea what she has or hasn't tried.

 

My judgment of her is not based on what she has or hasn't tried, it's based on a passing-the-buck and shifting-the-blame attitude. If she were on tv saying her kid needed help desperately, and that she was so very sorry that others were put in danger, it would completely change the picture. She seems to have absolutely no sadness over what her child has done or become, and that is the part that both distresses me and causes me to think very harsh thoughts about that "mom". Where's the concern for her child? Imo, she is intentionally shifting the focus from the terrible acts her child has committed, and is instead going after the police that have to try and clean up the situation and keep everyone safe. Astonishing to me that a bit of temporary pain to that child isn't acceptable, and traumatizing other children and making them fear for their life and safety is really being brushed aside.

 

If she seemed even 1% as distressed as I would be in her shoes, I'd find it much easier to empathize. :001_huh:

[elizabeth]

Coming from a mom who had a little boy in special ed ps at one time long ago..I hate to say this I really do and I know in my mommy heart it sounds hateful so please forgive me. I can see it. There was a student who threw a chair at a teacher and grabbed a younger kid before they could get him off he severly bit that child. Move on to my very quiet unto himself child, Damie came home numerous times with huge bite marks on all different parts of his body. (I was a young mom who was overwhelmed don't judge me for letting him go back to the only choice I knew). This kid was horrible in every way possible and instead of words action should have been taken and it wasn't. Nothing was helping at all and finally I lost control of myself. I waited outside the school cause I knew he walked with his mom, I cornered them on the corner off of school property I made it clear in a very cruel way if he ever touched my son even looked at him again I would have such horrible things done to him he would wish he was dead. The mother said see I told you that you were gonna pi$$ off some overbearing sissy momma you did it now. I turned to her and said it was her fault she was doing nothing to control her child and innocents were getting harmed. I made it clear besides legal action I was coming after her too if he touched my baby again and the things I would do to her would make her mother scream in fright at the site of her. Again i was young and I was so overwhelmed with a new baby a disabled child and two other kids, going to college full time and trying to work weekends. I was also a single mom so I am sure that added to it. That kid never touched Damie again never even spoke to him. All the talking it out and behavior techniques didn't stop that kid from being that way to others but after I put the fear of God into him he never touched my baby again. I have been around kids like this for years now and besides the emotional isues they have if they have no family support they can turn into horrible horrible monsters. I didn't discipline him the right way I bullied him but sadly that is what he understood and responded too. I feel bad for all the other kids but my boy was safe. These kids can be deadly I would have pepper sprayed him to halt him. PS would be a better place if control was taken back. I am not saying great place just a better place. Control has been lost and I am happy officers stood up to make a point. I can't see any child hurt it breaks my heart but these are the kids who are going to grow up do we want them driving cars? Having children of their own?

 

This lawyer has seen it all and heard it all . This poster is spot on. I would never want that child in a classroom again.

[lionfamily1999]

I haven't watched the clips on the kid and Mom but coming this is our own experience for what its worth.

 

Maybe she's given up - I don't know. All I know is that we figured the buck stopped with us and we found a solution that works for us and ours.

 

Sad situation.

What she said was that the buck stopped THERE, not at her feet. She said it was their problem.

As a mother who has had to deal with this kind of thing (and yes, it really can be much worse at school than in any other setting--remember that 'conditioning'? School can become hardwired as an automatic threat) it is probably not as clear-cut as you might think. Please, everybody, don't jump to judgments too quickly.

Would ever say, "This is a school issue, not a home issue," or "This is between the school and him" or anything even close to that?

 

That is where the judgement is coming from. The idea that she thinks it's not HER problem. It's the school's problem to deal with. The school did not birth this little boy, the school should not be raising this little boy. Sure, the school's got a problem (should they EVER allow him to attend, should they have called the authorities to investigate earlier), but her little boy's problems are HER problems. She denied that. She passed the buck to the school. Not just for the present situation, but for every time it happened, why it happened, and how it should be dealt with.

[pdalley]

What she said was that the buck stopped THERE, not at her feet. She said it was their problem.

 

Would ever say, "This is a school issue, not a home issue," or "This is between the school and him" or anything even close to that?

 

That is where the judgement is coming from. The idea that she thinks it's not HER problem. It's the school's problem to deal with. The school did not birth this little boy, the school should not be raising this little boy. Sure, the school's got a problem (should they EVER allow him to attend, should they have called the authorities to investigate earlier), but her little boy's problems are HER problems. She denied that. She passed the buck to the school. Not just for the present situation, but for every time it happened, why it happened, and how it should be dealt with.

 

I was trying to stay off that soapbox. :) DH and I would not win any parenting awards but we do that the fact that we are ultimately responsible for these three guys seriously. We had an obligation - not just to our kids - but to the other kids in the classroom - to deal with our kid's issues. So we brought them home. It happened to work out beautifully. (Some days not so much but the worst day here is better than the best day there)

 

I don't know this woman or her situation and I deliberately didn't watch the clip because hearing 'it's not my fault' doesn't go over well here. We've taught our kids that yes - they have challenges in life. Everyone does. Theirs aren't worse than any other person's struggles and they have the obligation to ensure their issues don't step on other people's rights. Their issues are reasons but NEVER excuses. We don't do that here.

[lionfamily1999]

I was trying to stay off that soapbox. :) DH and I would not win any parenting awards but we do that the fact that we are ultimately responsible for these three guys seriously. We had an obligation - not just to our kids - but to the other kids in the classroom - to deal with our kid's issues. So we brought them home. It happened to work out beautifully. (Some days not so much but the worst day here is better than the best day there)

 

I don't know this woman or her situation and I deliberately didn't watch the clip because hearing 'it's not my fault' doesn't go over well here. We've taught our kids that yes - they have challenges in life. Everyone does. Theirs aren't worse than any other person's struggles and they have the obligation to ensure their issues don't step on other people's rights. Their issues are reasons but NEVER excuses. We don't do that here.

Exactly. It's not kids with issues, it's not struggling parents, it's a parent that decided it is not her *issue* and, imo, that is worse than saying it's not her fault. I could see that. "I've been doing the best I can, I'm doing everything I can, it's not my fault, I'm TRYING." But that's not what she said, she said it wasn't her issue, it was the school's problem.

 

You are a parent of a completely different........ genre??? :lol: I hope you know what I mean :grouphug:

[Slartibartfast]

I don't even know what to say.

 

I am appalled.

 

 

ETA: Sorry I am appalled at the mom, not posters here. :)

[twoxcell]

Yep, he deserved it. Hopefully he will learn his lesson before he grows up and ends up being tazed or shot by police. :001_huh:

[Tap]

I am playing a bit of the devil's advocate here, especially based on my post.

 

What it if is the school's fault? The grand father says some trama happened, we don't know where. What if she doesn't have problems with him at home? What if she has asked the school to discipline, but the school is too soft on him and he is running over everybody? My neice has a brain injury, but the school insists on mainstreaming her every year. My sister fights it, they insist, it is 'protocol'. They try, and it fails...over and over. In a special needs class she does great, she just needs to work at her own pace.

 

Dh is a slow reader. He is very, very smart but a slow reader. He was placed in remedial classes and was bored to death! If he had an IEP to allow a few extra minutes on in class work, he would have been in honors classes. He dropped out of school in the 10th grade, partially due to this.

 

Not saying this is true, we don't know the situation, but what if it is? What if the school is labeling him wrong, creating part of the situation, and not working with the parent?

[pdalley]

Exactly. It's not kids with issues, it's not struggling parents, it's a parent that decided it is not her *issue* and, imo, that is worse than saying it's not her fault. I could see that. "I've been doing the best I can, I'm doing everything I can, it's not my fault, I'm TRYING." But that's not what she said, she said it wasn't her issue, it was the school's problem.

 

You are a parent of a completely different........ genre??? :lol: I hope you know what I mean :grouphug:

 

:lol: I know we're a little different. (To say the least - which is why we consistently produce Aspies)

 

I really don't know what's the deal with this situation. I know some of the ps staff could be contributing or even causing some of the issues from bitter experience. But I never could - even when I was completely exhausted and worn down - say it was not my fault entirely and wash my hands of the situation. Neither DH or I are made that way.

 

It could be she didn't mean it that way - I don't know.

[MamaSheep]

(I'm snipping too, for similar reasons. :) )

What is a practical way to follow through what you said? Maybe it was just this boy, but neither way (staying or leaving) seemed to help him calm down any faster or better.

 

The blog Crispa posted has a REALLY good list for things to do in those meltdown moments. http://hypnosaka.blogspot.com/2010/09/we-dont-need-to-escalate-12-steps-to.html

 

But this is one reason that preventive kinds of intervention are so much more effective than interventions after the melt-down is in progress. As I say, once the reaction has been triggered there's not much you CAN do but try to keep everybody safe and wait for it to run its course. After someone taps your knee with that little rubber mallet, and your leg is in the process of moving, it's REALLY hard to just "stop it right now". My opinion is that it's better to have someone there to help prevent the child from injuring himself or doing massive damage to property, but for that person to understand that damage control, not behavior control or problem solving, is what they're doing at that time and to understand how to not further escalate the situation (see the list on the blog link). As you said, having men standing around saying "Stop that right now" only makes it intensify and last longer. When I suggested giving the child space I was intending to mean that physically restraining, sometimes even touching the child can cause the fight/flight response to intensify. On the other hand, some children respond well to gentle touch and hugs, and even gentle restraint because it helps them feel that their protector is in control so they can relax. It kind of depends on the child. Sometimes it helps to reduce sensory stimuli in the environment by turning off lights, music, etc., and closing the door, as that can reduce the load the nervous system is trying to process. (A lot of classrooms are already very demanding on a child's nervous system, just with all the bright colors, and words, and flickery lighting, and people's voices from down the hall, and having to sit in one position for extended periods of time, and the social demands of sharing and taking turns and whatnot.) Often it helps to sit or kneel on the floor with them so you're not looming over them. Do what you can to not be perceived as an added threat (this can be hard to do if you were part of what triggered the reaction in the first place, because you will have already taken on the "foe" role in that child's amygdala). Don't take anything they say or do in the meltdown personally. The child is lashing out rather randomly in any way he can think of to try to survive (YOU know he's not in a life-threatening situation, but his amygdala doesn't "get" that). Treat him as someone who is frightened and confused, not as someone who is angry and vicious.

 

You're right, though, it can be a really scary situation. These kids are STRONG with all that adrenoline pumping through their systems, and they truly do not have mechanisms functioning in their brain that will tell them that stabbing someone with a pencil or broken ruler or chair leg is uncivilized and not a good idea.

 

The BEST thing to do is to learn the child's signals and take them seriously. The time to act is when the child begins to get agitated, but can still be reasoned with, not after the melt-down is in progress. If possible, remove the child from the situation that is causing the agitation (and by agitation I mean frustration, anxiety, social discomfort, sensory overstimulation--whatever is making that child's heart beat fast and his breathing speed up) or work out a way that the agitation can otherwise be reduced. Too often we tell kids to suck it up, or we dismiss things they find confusing or concerning because WE are not confused or concerned and we think they should just trust us. Just knowing his concerns will be treated with respect and taken seriously can reduce the level of agitation. Some people will say you're just giving in to the child's demands. And no, that's not a good idea if the child is just being bratty and belligerent. In THAT case, you DO need to assert some authority. But in THIS case, if you're working with a child who is already beginning to panic, asserting authority can seem like intimidation, which feels threatening to the amygdala, which operates on emotion, not reason. (And it IS panic--whether YOU think there's any just cause for panic or not, that doesn't change the child's inner experience, and you need to address the child's inner experience, not the experience you think the child should be having based on your interpretation of what is going on.) So how do you know which kind of child you're dealing with, a youngster who is gut-level frightened or one who is just selfish and bratty? It's not like they come with labels, right? The only way I know of is trial and error. If an assertion of authority SOLVES the problem and the child consistently behaves better when the adult is firm and strict, then you probably have a child on your hands who needs to be reigned in a bit and given some good structure to work in. If asserting authority results in a meltdown, though, you may be dealing with a form of panic--even if it "looks" like anger or defiance. Fear often manifests as anger, especially in boys. Defiance can be defensive--I WILL NOT do what you say because even thinking about it makes me feel unsafe. (Except, of course, a child is not mature enough to verbalize these things. And if he did, it would probably just make him a target.)

 

Having a "safe person" or "safe place" the child can go to when he feels that he's going to lose control can be a big help too. Often "flight" is the first response of the amydala, but children in a classroom feel trapped--it has been hammered into them that they cannot just walk out that door whenever they feel like it. Being unable to escape, they launch into "fight" mode. (Some kids default to "fight", though.) But if they have a pre-planned escape route, many children will take it. (Practice it when the child is calm and there is no 'emergency', just as you would with a fire drill.) Part of the problem is that the child doesn't know what to DO when that adrenaline starts blacking out brain systems. If you can condition them to run to the office and see Miss Margaret (or whatever), that gives them a channel to pour the panic into other than hurting other people. Usually they don't WANT to hurt other people, and when that feeling starts creeping up on them they experience an additional terror of what they might do to the people around them, and that makes the reaction even worse. A way out can do wonders. But the safe person has to ALWAYS be available, or the safe place has to ALWAYS be otherwise unoccupied in case of need, which is very hard to do in a school setting, where often everyone on staff has too much to do already, and every inch of space is needed. Very often, though, a "rage", or "meltdown" is an expression that something deep in the child feels that all other options were taken away.

 

And also, if you KNOW something ALWAYS sets off a meltdown--don't require the child to do it. Find an alternate activity for that child during that time. We grown-ups like our schedules and plans, especially when dealing with large numbers of children, which is chaotic enough as it is. But really, if you knew that feeding a child peanut butter set off an allergic reaction EVERY TIME, would you keep feeding that child peanut butter until he got used to it and quit having a reaction?

 

As I said earlier, this response can become conditioned to specific circumstances. It's kind of like post-traumatic stress disorder, where a certain smell or whatever can trigger panic attacks. The meltdown is traumatic to the child. If it happens frequently when the child is asked to...oh...sit on the carpet for circle time, for example, then just seeing a rug that color can start the adrenaline flowing. Schools are now a HUGE trigger for my son. He can function perfectly well in a mall, a restaurant, a bank, a theatre, a park, a grocery store--but if I take him into a school building he turns to jelly. (We're working on desensitizing him, but it ain't easy, sista! That amygdala knows a tiger in a tree when it sees one, and it is NOT going to let my boy get eaten.)

 

As children get older you can increasingly pass the responsibility for managing things over to the child. We have a number rating scale with our son, and he knows that when he gets to an 8 on a scale of 10, he can come to us for help and we will get him out. But when they're little, they really need their grown-ups to be on their side and help them, not "against" them and contributing to the problem.

 

And that is really hard because as a society this is not something we're taught to think about, and a lot of the things that work to fix the problem are very counterintuitive.

 

As I said, I never had any training. Are teachers trained to do this type of interention these days? Certainly if you're working in classrooms with these types of children. But in regular classrooms, is this a requirement now?

 

No, they're not. I deeply wish they were. And generally speaking, "these types of children" are "mainstreamed" into regular general education classrooms, where nobody knows what to do with them other than punish them every way they know how in the hopes that something will make an impression and the kid will stop. And of course the punishment usually just makes things worse. This kind of thing doesn't necessarily go along with educational delays, which is what the special education department is set up to handle. Sometimes they do get shunted into units for kids with behavior disorders, which is sometimes helpful, and sometimes even more traumatizing. There's a lot of need for change, IMO.

[MamaSheep]

It would be better if the schools would teach all teachers about how to handle this if they insist on inclusion.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I was the rare parent who begged for my kids to be in a self contained classroom where there weren't so many people - the lights could be turned off - the pace was slower, etc. I was told that was tough - they were too high functioning to be in a self contained classroom.

Me too. I was told (in a breathlessly appalled tone, by someone in the school district's "autism team") that "THAT WOULD BE SEGREGATION!!!"

 

So segregate him, if it's going to preserve his sanity. Please.

 

Don't get me wrong - I have no wish to return to the days when I was in school and we never saw differently abled kids. I don't. I just think inclusion should be like anything else - risk vs reward. There wasn't a reward for my kids and certainly not for the poor teachers who had to deal with meltdowns. (I only EVER had an issue with one teacher during our ps years - it was the administration I could not tolerate and consistently refused to listen or follow the IDEA)

 

We had wonderful people to work with the whole time we were at the school. They wanted to help, and in a lot of ways they did, but their hands were tied. The people who lived where the rubber hit the road could see the problem, but the ones who could make a difference were stuck on their ideological ivory towers and thought we didn't know what we were talking about. A general ed classroom was killing him (literally, he was becoming suicidal), and the only alternate placements they could offer were an autism unit where kids were learning to talk (ds has an extremely advanced vocabulary and speaks like an encyclopedia) or a unit for behaviorally disturbed children (where they agreed with me it was ridiculous to place a child who was traumatized by "normal" child behavior). Grr..MY adrenaline is starting to flow. I'd better stop talking about schools.

[MamaSheep]

What she said was that the buck stopped THERE, not at her feet. She said it was their problem.

 

Would ever say, "This is a school issue, not a home issue," or "This is between the school and him" or anything even close to that?

 

That is where the judgement is coming from. The idea that she thinks it's not HER problem. It's the school's problem to deal with. The school did not birth this little boy, the school should not be raising this little boy. Sure, the school's got a problem (should they EVER allow him to attend, should they have called the authorities to investigate earlier), but her little boy's problems are HER problems. She denied that. She passed the buck to the school. Not just for the present situation, but for every time it happened, why it happened, and how it should be dealt with.

 

You know...I talk a lot with parents of autistic children. And I'm not saying the kid in this story is autistic, just that those are the parents I have experience with, and some of the frustrations in this situation sound similar to what I hear from them.

 

One thing I see happen with some parents is a kind of learned hopelessness. They know their child is a problem. They know they "should" do something about it. They know EVERYONE around them thinks their child's behavior is THEIR fault, and if they would just [insert favorite parenting technique here], then the kid would not act that way. They have read every parenting book they can get their hands on, and tried everything the books said to do. They have taken their children to doctors and therapists and specialists and they've done everything THEY told them to do. And none of it "fixes" the problem. The child goes on acting "that way". The parents sometimes get to a point where they don't know what to do. They feel completely demoralized and hopeless. But since they can't just lie down in the road and die, they keep sending their children to school where they hope desperately that the "trained professionals" will be able to "do something" about their child, because obviously (they think) they are too incompetent, or too powerless, or too overwhelmed, or too sick, or too uneducated, or too whatever to manage their own kids because everything they have tried has failed. It isn't that they don't WANT to take responsibility for their own children, it's that they don't know what to do, and they can't mentally take that beating anymore, so they sort of abdicate that responsibility to something bigger and smarter than they are, which they think will be able to do a better job. That might be the school, or it might be the foster system, or it might be grandma. But they are just at the end of...something....everything...there's nowhere else to go, in their minds. And too often the people around them, at school, in their extended families, in their neighborhoods, are not trying to help them, they're just beating them down even more. And they just....shut down.

 

Would I say my child was the school's responsibility? No. But I have been close enough to road-kill on that highway myself to be able to sympathize.

 

Also, as a parent there is only so much you can do at home to help the child cope when he is away from you at school. I can teach him coping skills, but if the people at school undermine them, I am not THERE to fix it. It's something that has to be managed in the moment. And in that moment, it's the people at school who are THERE and can do something about it, not me. This is one reason I brought my son home. There were some issues that WERE between him and the school, that the school was going to have to be the ones to deal with simply because I was not THERE, and I thought the school was not handling them appropriately and was not willing to change things so that they could be handled appropriately. Some of the people who used to work with him have said to me, "I don't know how you handle his behavior ALL DAY!". Well, he doesn't behave like that at home. He really doesn't. Or at the library, or the museum, or the store, or the bank, or the post office, or....anywhere but in a school. Any school. It's a fascinating phenomenon, except that we have to live with it.

 

And I'm not saying that either of these things is what's going on with the woman in the video, just that IMO they COULD be, and I'm willing to give her enough benefit of the doubt that I'm not going to pile one more stone on the load she's already trying to carry all by herself with her husband away at war. If I were in the same room with her, I'd give her a hug, not a tongue-lashing. But that's coming from MY experience, and I know other people will feel differently based on THEIR experiences.

Edited April 8, 2011 by MamaSheep

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I think Aiden needs to stop watching/playing violent video games.

[lionfamily1999]

I think Aiden needs to stop watching/playing violent video games.

DH said the same thing. We both thought Mom was nuts to let them video that, I mean he could have very limited game time, that could have been a game that was a present and the first time he played it... what was she thinking having him playing that game while the cameras were there?

[rlugbill]

I am a former teacher myself. Brings to mind a problem child I knew- about same age.

 

And I'm currently a lawyer- I represented a child in juvenile court once who was 9 years old.

 

Here is my perspective. Our public schools are not appropriate environments for children, especially for those with these sorts of issues. I am surprised that more of you haven't mentioned this, since you are all homeschoolers.

 

Nature/God didn't mean for 30 children of the same age to be in the same room all day sitting at desks. It's not anything that ever happened on earth until about 150 years ago. It's an inherently inhumane environment that is unique to modern, technological societies. Schools are an experiment we are performing on our children and we are seeing the results of that experiment.

 

No other species does this, except for humans. Can you imagine 30 bears of the same age all together with one adult bear in charge, trying to control them?

 

Families in natural conditions are smaller and mixed ages, like homeschooled families or small one-room schools. Putting 25-30 kids of the same age at desks and then having them compete against each other indoors all day is not what human children were designed to do.

 

Human children were designed to be raised in small mixed-aged groups, with caring adults there to nurture and protect them. Schools lack this environment and therefore, children feel unprotected and fearful and angry to be put in such conditions.

 

Their little bodies rebel in various ways. Particularly those who are troubled in other ways, due to problems at home, victims of abusive or neglectful homes, poor nutrition, poor sleep habits, drug or alcohol abuse at home, parents with mental illness, etc.

 

Given an unnatural environment that is not suited for children and a child with one or more issues/problems, there are going to be problems in schools. Extreme problems invite extreme solutions such as the pepper spray.

 

It should never have gotten to this point. Simply by putting young children into public schools, particularly troubled children, problems such as this will inevitably result. I hope this child is placed in a more appropriate environment, such as the environments many of you have in your homes, where the group is smaller, the adult is wise and caring and the ages are mixed.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I think Aiden needs to stop watching/playing violent video games.

 

:iagree::iagree: I find it appalling the parents would allow this IMHO. Once I was at the video store and I saw a mom with a young girl selecting one of those blood, guts, and gore horror movies:ack2: Needless to say I was shocked.

[Mommy22alyns]

I think Aiden needs to stop watching/playing violent video games.

 

Huge, huge agreement here too.

[TechWife]

The thing that gets me is that he is being transferred to a different school. Doesn't sound like it's going to be addressed.

 

I actually think that this is entirely appropriate - I wouldn't want have a student in my classroom that had threatened me. Moving him was necessary to protect the teachers & students in his current classroom - a very smart thing to do.

[Angjune]

DH said the same thing. We both thought Mom was nuts to let them video that, I mean he could have very limited game time, that could have been a game that was a present and the first time he played it... what was she thinking having him playing that game while the cameras were there?

 

That was the first thing I noticed! As you said, it might have been the first time he played the game but geez it certainly looked bad! What if he's left to play it all day long? There are so many variables that we as viewers are not privy to so it is difficult to make a judgment. I just thought it extremely odd that she was going to the media. Did she want sympathy?

 

I understand that they felt there was no other way to control him at that moment. If its a medical issue then it appears that she needs outside help. But if its a case of a child ruling the roost, then she needs some parenting classes.

[lionfamily1999]

That was the first thing I noticed! As you said, it might have been the first time he played the game but geez it certainly looked bad! What if he's left to play it all day long? There are so many variables that we as viewers are not privy to so it is difficult to make a judgment. I just thought it extremely odd that she was going to the media. Did she want sympathy?

 

I understand that they felt there was no other way to control him at that moment. If its a medical issue then it appears that she needs outside help. But if its a case of a child ruling the roost, then she needs some parenting classes.

It seems like both mother and son are missing something. He says flat out that yes, he did want to kill them. She lets him play a violent video game for the cameras. I mean, it's honest (as a Christian, that's good), but there's something missing there. Is it me or would anyone else have been a little more careful about what their son did while the cameras were rolling? Just my kids, or would anyone else's have tried to soften that response?

 

I can't think of what exactly is strange about that, but it's like neither one of them really considered how they would appear, what people would take from what they put out there.

 

Is this some sort of wierd side effect of the internet? Online people are thoughtless and tactless in a lot of things, because it's anonymous... THAT is what it seemed like. Like both of them thought they were anonymous, they functioned as though none of this would be considered important or have lasting effects.

[orangearrow]

I would normally say that pepper spraying a child is outrageous, but if this kid was in my classroom I'd keep it handy and let him know I would use it at first provocation.

 

:iagree: I wouldn't hesitate, either.

 

But, man - this kid breaks my heart. He's obviously mixed up somehow, someway. I hope they (whoever *they* happens to be - his mom, his school... just... someone) gets him the help that he so obviously needs. Poor baby.