Starting Math at age 4/5 or waiting awhile

[GuateMama]

Hello!

 

I'm new to posting but I've been reading many of the informative posts here for the last couple of weeks. I've learned a lot, especially about math, the subject I dreaded in school. By way of introduction, I'm a homeschool graduate myself, and I hated math from about the 4th grade. We used Saxon and I still get cold chills when I see one of their math book. I felt like it was drill and kill, but somehow I never understood math, and it was soooo boring. I had to basically teach myself and that just didn't work. I think I'm a reasonably intelligent person and graduated summa cum laude from college, but I guess I needed something different in math instruction than teaching myself using Saxon. I have 4 children and my oldest two (boys) will be 5 in May. I also have a 3 year old daughter and 2 year old boy. I'm thrilled with WTM and the idea of classical education--it is what I wish I had when I was a child! I'm working on getting started with OPGTTR and reading a lot to my kids. We are reading a lot of Bible stories and working on narration a little. We do Suzuki violin lessons (the 4 year olds and 3 year old DD) and lots of messy stuff like fingerpainting. We are practicing counting skills and that is the extent of our math right now.

 

My question is whether there are good reasons to get started with math now, with Miquon or Right Start, vs. waiting until next year. I got Singapore EM for Kindergarten, and Math Mammoth from the HSBC deal, but they can't write much yet, so my plan was to start a math program after their fine motor skills develop more. After reading all the posts about Right Start I started wondering if it would be a good idea to introduce math sooner than I planned since they can learn concepts without writing. If using a program like Right Start, is there an advantage in starting it in Pre-K and K, or to wait and do RS B next year? My mom was a fan of the book Better Late than Early, so that is the thought process I grew up with. I'm confused.

 

I appreciate any thoughts from more experienced parents.

 

:)

Amanda

[Aurelia]

We did RS A when Ariel was 4.5 and she loved it. She got upset if we "did school" and didn't do math. I think it gave her a good foundation and if we could have kept going with RS, I would have.

[texasmama]

I am using SM Essentials this year with my pre K'er, who is five. She is not great at writing the numbers, but the program is giving her a chance to practice this. I do it side by side with her. She is a very beginning reader so I read her the instructions. That has worked well for us. As a bonus, she loves it.:001_smile:

[boscopup]

Since you plan to use MM, which starts in first, you could follow her recommendations for the K year - doing more living math type stuff. Throw in the SM EM K if you/they want to.

 

I have math loving boys, so I usually do start early, although technically I did nothing formal with my oldest until I sent him to school for K (where they used Saxon, and I share your boredom with the program, as does my son :tongue_smilie:). We use MM for him now. My 4 year old is dabbling in math. He loves to "do school", so we started RS A. I actually didn't care for it (we got 10 lessons in, and I just couldn't take it anymore). I think SM EM K will be more up my alley. I plan to start him on that this summer. For now, he sometimes does R&S Counting With Numbers, which is pretty gentle (and cheap!). He started that last fall, and we stopped for a while when I pulled my oldest out of school.

 

Anyway, I don't think it will matter much in the long run whether you start now or start in another year. I don't necessarily agree with waiting until 8 or 9 (for the general population, at least), but I think starting at 6 would be ok, as long as you've been working on basic K math skills during their K year (counting, number recognition, writing numbers, patterns, shapes, etc.). You can do that pretty informally, and you probably have already. :)

[Spy Car]

I had a wonderful experience using Miquon with my (then) 4 year old. The use of Cuisenaire Rods made math playful and something he could fully comprehend.

 

For me the educational materials in the 3 teachers books were invaluable. Singapore has become our spine (as planned) but we laid a wonderful foundation for whole-parts math using Miquon.

 

It does take a motivated parent/partner open to out of the box thinking, but if you are willing to re-think how you make math comprehensible to a young mind then Miquon is something to consider. We loved it.

 

Bill

[ChandlerMom]

Since you plan to use MM, which starts in first, you could follow her recommendations for the K year - doing more living math type stuff. Throw in the SM EM K if you/they want to.

 

 

:iagree: Math is more than arithmetic! It's shapes and comparison and sorting and all sorts of stuff most preschoolers LOVE. My advice is to look at the MM skills needed to start first grade (link in PP) and just spend some time working on those in the "real world": counting toys, sorting them, etc, etc. If you want a workbook, there are a number of pre-K colorful picture-rich fun little workbooks to use. In preK and early elementary my advice on math is DAWDLE. Take the time to encourage the kiddos to play with math concepts so they don't equate math with the drudgery of your childhood. Math should be fun. Really. :lol:

[AnthemLights]

:iagree: Math is more than arithmetic! It's shapes and comparison and sorting and all sorts of stuff most preschoolers LOVE. My advice is to look at the MM skills needed to start first grade (link in PP) and just spend some time working on those in the "real world": counting toys, sorting them, etc, etc. If you want a workbook, there are a number of pre-K colorful picture-rich fun little workbooks to use. In preK and early elementary my advice on math is DAWDLE. Take the time to encourage the kiddos to play with math concepts so they don't equate math with the drudgery of your childhood. Math should be fun. Really. :lol:

 

:iagree: Math should be fun. My kiddos loved doing math puzzles while driving. Easy stuff like addition and subtraction facts. Or questions like 6 plus what makes 10....that's an equation with a variable....pretty heavy stuff for a 5yo. :D

[lionfamily1999]

We enjoy Singapore Essentials.

 

All the same, if YOU are not comfortable starting math then don't :D Learn to count and write numbers up to 100. Count by 2s, 5s and 10s. Then, let the formal math start in first grade.

 

That's the beauty of homeschooling, doing what works best for you.

[annlaura]

I have a 4yo DS, and we do lots of as-we-go, real life math. I am just now reading the Miquon books, and we will start doing a little Miquon and a little MEP. I also might use some Sunlight soon. Throw in some pattern blocks, puzzles, and beads to sort, and hopefully he'll be fine. I don't follow late than early, but I also don't push at this age. So far he enjoys what we do.

[Ritsumei]

We're using Math Expressions-K for math with my 4.5yo, and he loves it. I've blogged about it quite a bit, because it's so much fun. And I've been impressed with the way they're setting things up for ease of understanding. They set up both addition/subtraction by spending time working with "partners" in numbers. For example, 3 & 4 are partners in7. We're still early in the program, but have already seen things written both 3+4=7 and 7=3+4. Actually, it's been more of the 2nd way, which is setting up for easy transition into algebra. The other thing that I like is that it asks for the kids to produce the numbers themselves, "Draw 5 eggs. Draw 3 hats" that sort of thing, rather than "Count the eggs." It's harder to fake it, I think, when you're drawing the stuff yourself. They also have regular "bodies in motion" activities: do 7 jumps, 3 moo's, that sort of thing. It's great for the young wiggly ones. I got my teacher's edition from Amazon, used, cuz they're stupid expensive to buy from Houghton-Mifflin. I make my own manipulatives and when we do the worksheets I just do those by hand too; there's good pictures in the teacher's book.

 

As for the writing thing, Monkey was ready for mathy concepts a while ago, but we've had to wait a bit for his fine motor to catch up some. But we were able to make some progress in ME by applying the WTM suggestions for Mom as a narration scribe to math. One of the first assignments we did was drawing a "scene of 2." Monkey wanted to trace a fish toy, so I did that, and had him talk me through drawing more watery things. Then we colored it together. Look at the progression she suggests for narrations: Mom writes, Mom writes some & student writes/copies some, and finally the student writes (WTM ch. 5?). It works for other subjects too.

[Mert]

Welcome Amanda!!

 

I am really not much more experienced than you in parenting or hsing so this isn't years of wisdom speaking or anything. ;) There is a good deal of math-type stuff that you can do without actually starting any curriculum.

 

We're using the book Family Math for Young Children, http://www.amazon.com/Family-Math-Young-Children-Comparing/dp/0912511273/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1301972906&sr=1-2. Ds has enjoyed these activities so far, and I think they're a good intro to basic math concepts beyond counting and basic arithmetic.

 

You can also play games such as Hi Ho Cheerio, Sum Swamp, ThinkFun games like Rush Hour Jr. and read living math books. I've been collecting books by Mitsumasa Anno, http://www.amazon.com/Mitsumasa-Anno/e/B000APFM94/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1301973356&sr=8-1, after reading several threads here, and you can find more math books here, http://www.livingmath.net/ReaderLists/EarlyConcepts/tabid/383/language/en-US/Default.aspx. ~HTH

[mom31257]

I don't have personal experience with the curricula you are referencing (know a little about RightStart), but I think understanding number concepts as early as possible can only help in the later school years. I did use curricula at age 4 with my son, but he started asking to do school when he was 2. That's the age he was when I started homeschooling his big sister.

 

My son "gets" math easily and understood number concepts right away. When people would ask him how much he liked something, he would always rattle off some random number. I started him very early (like 3) playing games that involved dice. My dh started playing a game with him at about 3 that helped, too. He would hide both hands behind his back and have our son guess how many fingers he was holding up. I believe that Right Start groups everything in sets of 5, so fingers work great. The game helped him learn the zero concept and numbers up to 10. He's 7 and in 3rd grade math now.

[NanceXToo]

I think there IS something to be said for the "Better Late Than Early" thought process (I enjoyed that book).

 

Does that mean I'd strictly adhere to not doing anything til they are 8 or 9? No.

 

Does that mean I'd rush to start formal math and learning at 4 or 5? No.

 

I prefer a more non-academic, gentle, hands-on, creative, etc approach to preschool and Kindergarten. If you've got a kid who loves workbooks and begs to "do school" and wants to do that stuff, go for it, let them do whatever they're interested in. But if not? I would absolutely not push it. I'd give it another year or two and see how it goes. In the meanwhile, you can teach them VERY informally- or just sit back and be amazed by what they learn even without you trying.

 

You might enjoy this:

 

http://nancextoo.livejournal.com/190076.html

[teachmejoy]

Hello!

 

and I hated math from about the 4th grade. We used Saxon and I still get cold chills when I see one of their math book. I felt like it was drill and kill, but somehow I never understood math, and it was soooo boring.

 

Singapore EM for Kindergarten, and Math Mammoth from the HSBC deal,

I appreciate any thoughts from more experienced parents.

 

:)

Amanda

 

I had to laugh when I read this!!! Same thing happened to me. I can't stand Saxon!!!!

 

I started Singapore Earlybird K with my ds when he was 4. He couldn't write much, so I didn't require him to do the writing activities. I was more interested in recognition. We did a lot of it orally, and I skipped what I didn't think he was ready for. I knew the writing would come later, and it did! By the time we finished the books he was doing great with it!

 

I switched to Mammoth 1/2 way into his 1st grade year because singapore was no longer "clicking". He is doing great with it now. We have had struggles along the way, but I've been happy with Mammoth for 1st.

 

Whatever you choose will be the right one. Good luck!!!

[desertmum]

I had to laugh when I read this!!! Same thing happened to me. I can't stand Saxon!!!!

 

I started Singapore Earlybird K with my ds when he was 4. He couldn't write much, so I didn't require him to do the writing activities. I was more interested in recognition. We did a lot of it orally, and I skipped what I didn't think he was ready for. I knew the writing would come later, and it did! By the time we finished the books he was doing great with it!

 

I switched to Mammoth 1/2 way into his 1st grade year because singapore was no longer "clicking". He is doing great with it now. We have had struggles along the way, but I've been happy with Mammoth for 1st.

 

Whatever you choose will be the right one. Good luck!!!

 

Thank you for this post. I was about to ask the same question :lol:

[FO4UR]

Start math, but hold off on the workbooks.

 

Start reading the Miquon teacher's materials now. Let them play with the manipulatives (Building trains and houses are absolutely perfect!!! Insert mathy talk as desired.). Play games.

[mycalling]

I started my oldest with math after he turned 6, we only did counting to 20 before that. He later started Pre-Algebra before he turned 9. It obviously didn't delay him.

 

I also have a seemingly slow math learner who has been working with counting/adding/subtracting since 4. She recently turned 6 and still can't remember which numbers are 2, 6, 7, 9, and 10, cannot add, yet can subtract well orally. Her twin is instinctual with math and did much more advanced concepts on his own.

 

Starting earlier with my twins didn't help one nor hinder the other.

[Halcyon]

I had a wonderful experience using Miquon with my (then) 4 year old. The use of Cuisenaire Rods made math playful and something he could fully comprehend.

 

For me the educational materials in the 3 teachers books were invaluable. Singapore has become our spine (as planned) but we laid a wonderful foundation for whole-parts math using Miquon.

 

It does take a motivated parent/partner open to out of the box thinking, but if you are willing to re-think how you make math comprehensible to a young mind then Miquon is something to consider. We loved it.

 

Bill

 

:iagree:

[Halcyon]

Meant to add: it depends on the child, really. My youngest started with Miquon when he was 4-ish, and now that he is almost 6 he is just about to complete Singapore 1B. He is very good at math, and really, really enjoys workbooks--he has strong handwriting skills and that is a big factor when considering workbooks. I don't think I would have required much math prior to perhaps 6 if I felt he wasn't interested. I would have done a lot with manipulatives, coins, marbles, right start balance etc. But he is able and willing to do Singapore math sheets (he does four or five a day) so that's what we do.

[LMD]

I started very lightly with Miquon with DD when she was 4. She was begging to do 'school', and we enjoyed it. Now she's doing Singapore 2A, but I still use some Miquon to supplement.

I love the cuisenaire rods, awesome things! Now my 3.5y/o loves to play around with them, and DD still uses them. I'm also using MEP Reception which I find a great, gentle, intro to math (and free!).

[Ellie]

 

You might find this article intriguing. :001_smile:

[Food4Thought]

I think there IS something to be said for the "Better Late Than Early" thought process (I enjoyed that book).

 

Does that mean I'd strictly adhere to not doing anything til they are 8 or 9? No.

 

Does that mean I'd rush to start formal math and learning at 4 or 5? No.

 

I prefer a more non-academic, gentle, hands-on, creative, etc approach to preschool and Kindergarten. If you've got a kid who loves workbooks and begs to "do school" and wants to do that stuff, go for it, let them do whatever they're interested in. But if not? I would absolutely not push it. I'd give it another year or two and see how it goes. In the meanwhile, you can teach them VERY informally- or just sit back and be amazed by what they learn even without you trying.

 

You might enjoy this:

 

http://nancextoo.livejournal.com/190076.html

 

Nance, your blog pretty much describes our K year to a T. I tried lots of curriculum, realized it was destroying the boy's will to learn, and then got a copy of "Better Late Than Early."

 

With my 5-yr old now, I'm not using any math curriculum. But she knows how to count, how to add, and lately she's been learning about number families (4+3=7, 3+4=7, 7-4=3, 7-3=4) using fridge magnets of numbers. I didn't think she'd be a mathy one either - she just took an interest in it recently. She loves patterns and sequences (just today, we did "ordinal numbers" by talking about the colors of the rainbow). Anyway, I'm all for freedom and play the first few years! The kids learn a lot more than you ever expect, and all because they're interested!

 

We also keep lots of "toys" around: Cuisinaire rods, legos, pirate gold in different colors, pretend money, geoboards, an abacus. Math is fun around here. Now, if I could only figure out how to make grammar fun, we'd be good to go. :tongue_smilie:

[purduemeche]

DS 7, DS 6, and DS 5 all adored/adore Math U See Primer. It's low intensity and just introduces concepts.

[Farrar]

We did math with games, including with the C-rods, and through picture books at that age and I highly recommend it if you want to do *something* but not a formal curriculum.

[daffodil]

I did MEP Reception and RightStart A with my daughter at 4. Now she's 5 and doing RightStart B. She loves math and will ask to keep going when the lesson is over. If your child enjoys it, I don't see any harm in starting math at a young age. I also think it's completely fine to keep math informal, playing games and reading picture books (check out livingmath.net).

[Five More Minutes]

I had a wonderful experience using Miquon with my (then) 4 year old. The use of Cuisenaire Rods made math playful and something he could fully comprehend.

 

For me the educational materials in the 3 teachers books were invaluable. Singapore has become our spine (as planned) but we laid a wonderful foundation for whole-parts math using Miquon.

 

It does take a motivated parent/partner open to out of the box thinking, but if you are willing to re-think how you make math comprehensible to a young mind then Miquon is something to consider. We loved it.

 

Bill

:iagree: (And I started Miquon thanks to this forum ...) I love how Miquon is accessible to students who aren't yet able to write numbers confidently. Once you get used to the free-form nature of the program, it's an easy introduction to foundational math.