Classical Conversations - Pros and Cons?

[Melissa in St Louis]

I'm considering joining a group -- what are some pros and cons that I may not have considered? I want to make a very informed decision. And it's driving me batty. :tongue_smilie:

[Sew happily ever after]

I'm not part of a group but I've done a fair amount of research. The biggest con (and the one holding me back!) is the cost involved. It would cost close to $400 per child (I have 4=$1600 total due!)--not including the at home materials I would have to buy (another $100-$150)!--for us to attend the local CC group. I'm unwilling to spend that much (that's more than what I spend on HS curriculum for the entire year!) since I could easily re-create what they do at the group here at my home, on my own, and for much less. The materials seem very well written, useful, and helpful. I'd really like to have all the memory work written down in one place. But the more that I think about it, we are really already memorizing most of the same facts, it's just not set to music and written down all in one place.

 

Another con is that it would take away 1 day of learning our regularly scheduled subjects. We miss enough days of school as it is with 4 children and with various appointments and outside activities. It's time that I'm not willing to part with in order to attend the CC classes.

 

That being said, if money were no object, then i would probably join a group, for the accountability alone. I find myself starting a new "thing" and not following through for the entire school year because of no accountability. CC classes would provide that accountability! I'm not worried about my children socializing with other HS children, we get out plenty...trust me...they have TONS of friends!

[SonshineLearner]

Well, on a whole it's whether you want to be part of a group that is a "business". I have to say, that I tried to decide if I would stay ... or just be a participant, and I'm really happy forming our own co-op. Different areas are different... different groups.... I want to be able to customize my group... to do what I feel God is telling US to do. Not to have things mandated by a spot so far away, that has little contact with the entire group they are trying to control to the last degree. Seriously, homeschooling is partially for freedom and flexibility. If I find an error, I want to correct it right away, not wait till the company decides to... Etc... That being said.. if it's the only group around... If you don't want to roll up your sleeves and help.... because of whatever reasons.... It's a good spot (although you still have to stay with your child... and help... but not teach...) I couldn't beat the incredible people in my group. I LOVE all of them!!! The are the sweetest most loving group of women ever.... and THEY are the reason I loved CC..... (CC is almost like something that people are sometimes more hooked on the program than on the people in their group... I am for sure not like that..) I do like an every week meeting spot and believe it's worth a day a week... Course, I don't care if we school year round... so....

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

I wrote three long blog posts on the subject if you are interested. :)

 

Overview of Classical Conversations (including pros and cons)

Our Day At CC (what our mornings at CC are like)

Why I Value CC (particularly the memory work)

 

This is our first year with a new CC group. I'm not paid to advertise for them. :)

[snipsnsnailsx5]

I'm considering joining a group -- what are some pros and cons that I may not have considered? I want to make a very informed decision. And it's driving me batty. :tongue_smilie:

 

We had decided to go ahead and do CC. We submitted our registration and were waiting to hear if we got into the program (there was concern that there wouldn't be enough space, so they were reviewing applications).

When my DH and I really sat down and talked about it, again, and he brought some concerns he had to light.

Part of it was that he just didn't know what the CC program was all about.

 

I went to an open house and I've been reading about it on these boards for awhile now, so I walked him through what our day was like at the open house, the teaching method of CC, and the classical method of learning.

 

After that he was sure he didn't want to do it. While CC is a good program, in his opinion it wasn't worth the money for a family like ours with five kids (and one on the way!)

 

The final cost breakdown for four of our kids to be in Foundations (and one in Essentials) and one in Challenge A (the junior high level program and above), AND with the cost of books and required materials - it was going to be well over $3000.

 

So what was that cost going towards? Part program fees, part CC fees, part paying the tutors. The tutors are parents like us who go to training seminars. Of course all of us parents are more then capable of teaching our children, that's why we homeschool! It wasn't about that, but partly it was about the cost seeming pretty steep for the tutors just being other parents like us who went to a couple seminars. Also, it was just for one day a week. The final straw to my DH was that the material they teach didn't sound very thorough to him, at least not worth over $3000. It's very memorization based and I guess he was under the impression that they were actually going to be covering topics in detail rather then just having them memorize the facts.

I went to their open house, and I thought it looked great. I think the method they use definitely works. However, its just hard for us to justify over $3000...plus other costs for non CC curriculum, like math, music lessons, and so on.

 

HTH!

[Mandy in TN]

Reasons to do CC

 

A support group- If having a group of people working on the same material helps you to stay on track, then CC may be for you. If having a group of people to support and encourage you while you all travel a very similar homeschool journey makes you feel more confident and comfortable, then CC may be for you. If you want to be able to ask questions of a veteran homeschool who has BTDT with the exact material that you are wanting to teach, then CC may be for you. There are a number of if, then statements related to a support group that can be a real help to a homeschool family.

 

Schedule of topics- If you have other things going on with older students and would like a schedule of topics for your younger just to remove some of that responsibility from plate, CC may be for you. If you are burned-out on hs and need a year to get yourself energized without losing ground academically, CC may be for you. If you have a family member with medical or other issues going on, etc and want your child to continue on a classical education path, but don't have the time to devote to planning and scheduling, then CC may be for you.

 

Inexpensive Tutorial- I keep hearing about the cost, but, when compared to other tutoring services like Kumon or Sylvan, a private tutor, or even the other mom taught tutorials in my area, $13 a week for Foundations is cheap- dirt cheap.

 

Motivational for the child- A child can't complain that he is the only child in the world learning XYZ if every week he sees a whole group of kids learning the same material. Also, if you have a competitive child, they will really be motivated to know the material.

 

Presentations- Every week your child will have the opportunity to stand in front of a group and speak. This is a skill that is best learned young, so that the child doesn't develop an irrational fear of public speaking.

 

Classical Material for a wide range of learning styles and abilities- Unlike TWTM, CC is doable even for children with reading delays, lower IQ, and a myriad of other learning differences. Auditory learners will really enjoy all the songs and memory work chants. Kinesthetic learners will enjoy all the movement in the timeline song and the speed of the class with all the getting up and sitting down (sit and draw geography, up for science, up to front for presentation, down for snack, move around for arts). Visual learners have not only the material presented in class, but tons of printed material that they can read at home.

 

Here is my short list of the many pros of CC. There are also many cons. I need to run, but I will try to type those up later.

Mandy

Edited March 25, 2011 by Mandy in TN

[Melissa in St Louis]

Thanks so much! These are all excellent thoughts -- thank you for taking the time to respond. I'm thrilled to peruse the linked articles and blogs during quiet time today! :D

[Mandy in TN]

Reasons to NOT do CC

 

the group- If having a group of people working on the same material causes you to continually compare yourself and/ or your child to other families in such a way that is detrimental to your or your child’s home education experience, then CC may not be for you.

 

Schedule of topics- If you are the type of person who loves to design and schedule your own materials, then CC is going to be frustrating. At first this was one of the deal breakers for me. When CC first began in my area, I couldn’t fathom letting go of one of my favorite parts of hs in order to follow someone else’s schedule of topics. After all, couldn’t I do it better? Didn’t I have a better handle on what my child needed to learn and when? Isn’t this a huge factor in my decision to hs especially in the K-6th grade years- the same years as Foundations?

 

Tutorial, Cost vs Participation- Although I do not think of CC as expensive, for some people it can be a real turn-off to pay for tutoring that they (the parent) then must also attend. For me, I tend to think of CC material as being like Kumon and Suzuki violin. My little man does Kumon and violin, and I must be there with him. My involvement is crucial to the way these programs are designed. It is my role to continue with and build on what has been presented by the CC tutor, but I know that for many families the thought of needing to be at a program for which they have paid someone else to teach is a real deal breaker.

 

Upsetting for the child- If you have a child who feels overwhelmed by the amount of material, the group setting, having an instructor other than you, or being in a classroom for several consecutive hours, then CC may not be the best option.

 

Memory work issues- Initially another deal breaker for me was the CC memory work. Most of my issues with the CC memory work fell into these 3 categories:

1. Out of context- Unless they find it interesting or useful my children simply do not remember things learned out of context. They may as well memorize a list of random names from the phone book, because unless it is interesting, useful, or in context they will not remember it the day after they stop reciting it. When we started CC this semester, I knew that I was going to need to spend time at home doing further exploration of the material or resign myself to the fact that we were wasting our time.

2. Choices of memory work- For example- Why in the world would a child need to skip count for 6 or 7 years unless they had no idea what they were saying therefore it was out of context and they didn’t remember it?!?! Also, for young children I find it more appropriate to memorize things like Mother Goose and other poetry that exposes them to a broad range of vocabulary and syntax.

3. Accuracy of memory work- I am not a scientist or historian and looking at a few of these makes me scratch my head and feel the need to explain, alter, or add.

 

Classical Material- Unlike TWTM, CC is light classical. CC just doesn’t have the meat that you will find in other classical programs, particularly in 5th through 8th grade.

 

This is my short list of the many cons of CC.

Mandy

Edited March 25, 2011 by Mandy in TN

[Hedgehogs4]

I have a two-part post on my blog which answers my "pros and cons" of cc.

 

http://accidentalhomeschooler.blogspot.com/2010/08/coming-full-circle-with-classical.html

 

hth.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

For me, it's all about our community. I love CC and the material my kids learn and the motivation they get from being in a community of learners. BUT, I love the moms and children in our group so much that I would go even if we studied something other than the CC materials. Together, CC and our particular community is the whole package.

[Jennefer@SSA]

One more voice weighing in....

 

I researched CC last year and decided it wasn't for us at this time. Here were my reasons for pushing the pause button on CC.

 

1. I prefer a 4 year cycle to a 3 year. I would rather go through the cycle 3 times instead of 4. Just a personal preference.

 

2. They are on a completely different year than we are. I could switch to study the same year they were on or be okay with my kids learning/memorizing facts about something completely different than what we were learning at home. Neither was my first choice.

 

3. I value memory work...alot. Yet the amount of time and effort spent on memory work alone was too great for me at this stage of the game. And much of the memory work my kids do revolve around poetry, something that seemed very lacking in CC.

 

4. IEW is not my favorite writing program. If we did their writing I would have to be okay with IEW and so far I have found other programs I like much better.

 

5. I wasn't ready to give up a whole day to a co-op yet. I still want the flexibility to spend a day at the zoo, the children's museum or at a new park doing a nature study. My youngers are 6 and almost 5. There is time for co-ops later!

 

* None of this is to say that at some point some of these things may change and we might do CC. Just for now, these were the reasons I decided to wait.

[Poke Salad Annie]

The one closest to me is an almost two-hour drive, so it's not feasible for my family. I've decided to try to do something similar at home.

[SonshineLearner]

Yup, and you can insert things you like better.... Like Shurley Grammar :) Or LFC chants... :) etc...

[AFwife Claire]

We did CC last year, but we chose not to participate again this year. I was a tutor, which was pretty much essential for us, as we are expecting #8. To be honest, one of the hugest reasons I would never go back (and be a tutor) was the 3 day parent practicum/teacher training thing. It was absolute hell for us! LONG days (9-4, with the location being an hour away from us, so add on a 2 hour commute) made my kids FRIED. And not just mine! Each afternoon, which is when the tutor training took place, the line of moms out in the hall with melting-down kids grew longer and longer. I said on my blog, "What homeschool mom comes up with the brilliant idea of sending homeschooled kids off for 3 entire long days in a row in what is essentially a schoolroom or day care environment?!" The morning sessions, where this spazzy lady talked about the classical method, would have been vastly improved by simply handing out each woman a copy of The Well Trained Mind and sending us all home. Gah. What a waste.

 

Okay, sorry for the tangent, since I know you are not thinking of becoming a tutor! Evidently I still have some issues to work through, LOL!!

 

Another reason we decided not to come back are these memory work reasons that Mandy in TN gives.

 

Reasons to NOT do CC

 

Memory work issues- Initially another deal breaker for me was the CC memory work. Most of my issues with the CC memory work fell into these 3 categories:

1. Out of context- Unless they find it interesting or useful my children simply do not remember things learned out of context. They may as well memorize a list of random names from the phone book, because unless it is interesting, useful, or in context they will not remember it the day after they stop reciting it. When we started CC this semester, I knew that I was going to need to spend time at home doing further exploration of the material or resign myself to the fact that we were wasting our time.

2. Choices of memory work- For example- Why in the world would a child need to skip count for 6 or 7 years unless they had no idea what they were saying therefore it was out of context and they didn’t remember it?!?! Also, for young children I find it more appropriate to memorize things like Mother Goose and other poetry that exposes them to a broad range of vocabulary and syntax.

3. Accuracy of memory work- I am not a scientist or historian and looking at a few of these makes me scratch my head and feel the need to explain, alter, or add.

 

Classical Material- Unlike TWTM, CC is light classical. CC just doesn’t have the meat that you will find in other classical programs, particularly in 5th through 8th grade.

 

This is my short list of the many cons of CC.

Mandy

 

I felt like the complete randomness of the facts was so bizarre, and there was no rhyme or reason as to why some things were included, but others weren't. One example I can think of off the top of my head was about "some kinds of leaves and leaf types: spines, needles, tendrils, bracts, bud scales, palmate". Anyone who knows anything about leaves knows that pinnate is sort of the "opposite" of palmate, and is in fact much more common, as far as trees go, so . . . why not add that on? And neither pinnate or palmate really have anything to do with the other items in the list. That sort of randomness told me that the people who made up all this memory work really have no clue what is actually important or not, and are just picking random facts out of thin air. Drove me nuts! But any criticism on the tutor boards for CC is immediately shot down, as if the people who write this stuff are divinely inspired!

 

So this year I did my own memory work--a 32 point time line that includes dates, as well as points from places other than America after 1776; a science sentence per week taken from the BJU Life Science book, which is what my oldest is going through this year; mapwork from TOG year 1, which is history for this year, several poems (one stanza a week), and Heb. 11. It's been great! We already do Latin and English, so I didn't feel the need to add anything on there. I find I am much happier when I am in control and understand why I am having my kids memorize stuff, LOL!

[Chelli]

So this year I did my own memory work--a 32 point time line that includes dates, as well as points from places other than America after 1776; a science sentence per week taken from the BJU Life Science book, which is what my oldest is going through this year; mapwork from TOG year 1, which is history for this year, several poems (one stanza a week), and Heb. 11. It's been great! We already do Latin and English, so I didn't feel the need to add anything on there. I find I am much happier when I am in control and understand why I am having my kids memorize stuff, LOL!

 

This is why we aren't doing CC next year as well. I know that some people use CC as their jumping off point to study history, but I felt like we were missing so many interesting things because CC moves so quickly through history, and I don't like their history rotation either. I also know that you don't have to follow their history schedule or cycle, but then the memorization becomes confusing (at least to me it would :001_smile:). I want my kids to memorize facts that go along with what we are studying at home. I LOVE your ideas, Claire! Would you mind sharing your 32 point timeline with me? You can send me a PM. Thanks!

 

We have a great group of parents and kids, and I know that a lot of them love it and a lot of other people love it as well. IMO, CC was too restrictive for how I like to homeschool. The one thing I have learned from participating in CC this year is that something that planned out and scheduled is not for me when it comes to choosing a homeschool group/co-op. This has been my experience, FWIW.

[SonshineLearner]

 

I felt like the complete randomness of the facts was so bizarre, and there was no rhyme or reason as to why some things were included, but others weren't. One example I can think of off the top of my head was about "some kinds of leaves and leaf types: spines, needles, tendrils, bracts, bud scales, palmate". Anyone who knows anything about leaves knows that pinnate is sort of the "opposite" of palmate, and is in fact much more common, as far as trees go, so . . . why not add that on? And neither pinnate or palmate really have anything to do with the other items in the list. That sort of randomness told me that the people who made up all this memory work really have no clue what is actually important or not, and are just picking random facts out of thin air. Drove me nuts! But any criticism on the tutor boards for CC is immediately shot down, as if the people who write this stuff are divinely inspired!

 

 

 

Funny!! Too funny!! This is probably because they don't believe in Master Teachers, and obviously not Master Teachers, either. Points like this were made by my oldest daughter, who was in Public school almost her whole schooling career. She would ask "Why this and not that?" and say things like "They should correct this; it's wrong." and then when I told her that you had to have 3 verifiable sources to show them it was an error, she said "Then by that, they should have 3 verifiable sources saying they are correct."

 

Too bad!! Because if they had people with Master knowledge, they wouldn't be excited to talk about the needs for moms to bat back and forth things like the correct lines for geographical locations. And say that it's a positive for CC that you can do that... (Why ask an expert when WE can talk about it??)

 

Anyway, I love the families!! But I think anyone can pick up a copy of the Foundations guide, split it into 4 cycles, pick up Living Memory for a back-up, correct what you want to correct.... and start a co-op. Not... that... hard... Especially when you don't have to charge $$$ for tuition, and you CAN enjoy having moms in the spots that they want to teach instead of one tutor for the whole day.

 

I believe in the whole local thing and think that eventually CC will recognize that groups don't have to be part of them to get going, and will become more friendly to what HS is all about... which is customizing curriculums for their own family/group.

 

PS, my dad is an author for a huge part of his time, and professional editors are necessary. He has a Doctorate in both of the areas he teaches and writes about... and I can't imagine him NOT wanting others to go through his works. It's not an insult... it's mandatory to have editing to be professional. Imagine if everyone got to have works that were published.. and then got to charge MORE money when they corrected it... Just imagine!

:)

Edited March 25, 2011 by NayfiesMama

[smjlangley]

This was our first year with CC. We all loved it. I did. My 3 children did. My husband did. We almost did not sign back up for next year though. Honestly, the only con for us was the price. I may be a substitute tutor next year but do not want to jump into anything like I have a tendency to do :). I love children so who knows - tutor may be in my future but I will not say yes to that for at least the first 2 years!! That is my deal I made with myself.

 

We only have 2 weeks left in the year and we will miss our community so much! Even when we couldn't be there because of sickness, we missed the community so much. I love the memory work already planned and laid out for me. I love the fact that it works - my children have AMAZED me in their memorization this year. I also am a big fan of IEW and the essentials program. For 3 years at home we have gone over the parts of speech and my oldest son just couldn't get it. Well, he is totally getting them now! I think his competitive nature has kicked in with that too! I also love the accountability factor. We would easily push writing papers to the side if we didn't feel like we needed to turn them in to someone else.

 

For us, right now we can do it so we will continue but the price seems to be the real only issue that we have.

 

HTH!

[AFwife Claire]

I sent you a PM! I am happy to share!

[angela in ohio]

I tagged the thread at the bottom, so you can click on the tag and get other threads, or you can search the boards. CC has been discussed many times over the last few years, sometimes at great, great length. You can find out more than you ever wanted to know.

 

I started a campus, Directed the F/E program, and then Directed/Tutored a Challenge prgram. I also trained tutors and spoke at CC practicums. I was even asked to be a state manager. All that to say that I know CC inside and out. "My" campus is still going strong, but we left last year for many reasons.

[SonshineLearner]

Angela, if you even come out here, I'll buy you dinner :) I know a couple of really good spots!!

[TheAutumnOak]

One more voice weighing in....

 

I researched CC last year and decided it wasn't for us at this time. Here were my reasons for pushing the pause button on CC.

 

1. I prefer a 4 year cycle to a 3 year. I would rather go through the cycle 3 times instead of 4. Just a personal preference.

 

2. They are on a completely different year than we are. I could switch to study the same year they were on or be okay with my kids learning/memorizing facts about something completely different than what we were learning at home. Neither was my first choice.

 

3. I value memory work...alot. Yet the amount of time and effort spent on memory work alone was too great for me at this stage of the game. And much of the memory work my kids do revolve around poetry, something that seemed very lacking in CC.

 

4. IEW is not my favorite writing program. If we did their writing I would have to be okay with IEW and so far I have found other programs I like much better.

 

5. I wasn't ready to give up a whole day to a co-op yet. I still want the flexibility to spend a day at the zoo, the children's museum or at a new park doing a nature study. My youngers are 6 and almost 5. There is time for co-ops later!

 

* None of this is to say that at some point some of these things may change and we might do CC. Just for now, these were the reasons I decided to wait.

 

I also looked into it and decided it was not for us this at this time, for much of the same reasons stated above...I highlighted in this color what really applies to us...

 

I guess the bottom line for me right now is that I really love WTM and want to give a good shot at following it's recommendations pretty closely...In a couple of years, I will see where we are at and give it thought again, but right now I will just stick with WTM...

 

 

 

[Beth in SW WA]

I'm considering joining a group -- what are some pros and cons that I may not have considered? I want to make a very informed decision. And it's driving me batty. :tongue_smilie:

 

We love CC! Here are pics from 2 of our CC classes...

[Heather in VA]

 

 

I felt like the complete randomness of the facts was so bizarre, and there was no rhyme or reason as to why some things were included, but others weren't. One example I can think of off the top of my head was about "some kinds of leaves and leaf types: spines, needles, tendrils, bracts, bud scales, palmate". Anyone who knows anything about leaves knows that pinnate is sort of the "opposite" of palmate, and is in fact much more common, as far as trees go, so . . . why not add that on? And neither pinnate or palmate really have anything to do with the other items in the list. That sort of randomness told me that the people who made up all this memory work really have no clue what is actually important or not, and are just picking random facts out of thin air. Drove me nuts! But any criticism on the tutor boards for CC is immediately shot down, as if the people who write this stuff are divinely inspired!

 

So this year I did my own memory work--a 32 point time line that includes dates, as well as points from places other than America after 1776; a science sentence per week taken from the BJU Life Science book, which is what my oldest is going through this year; mapwork from TOG year 1, which is history for this year, several poems (one stanza a week), and Heb. 11. It's been great! We already do Latin and English, so I didn't feel the need to add anything on there. I find I am much happier when I am in control and understand why I am having my kids memorize stuff, LOL!

 

 

This was a huge problem for me. I count not figure out why they chose some of the things they chose and it just got to me after a while. As did the attitude. There was absolutely no room to ask questions, wonder about the logic behind their choices and even when a fact was dead wrong - they were unwilling to even discuss it. Divinely inspired is a great term for how they seemed to feel about the program and it's content. My kids hated memorizing out of context and the setup doesn't really allow for tailoring your studies with the memory work very well because of the speed and randomness of the information memorized.

 

In addition, I had an 8th grader at the time we did CC who was supposed to be in Challenge and ended up only in 2 of their classes - in Challenge A which is supposed to be high school. The Challenge program is not remotely full enough to consider giving high school credit. It wasn't even challenging for my 8th grader doing it a year ahead. I had to heavily supplement both classes to make it enough even for an 8th grader. If I'm going to farm any homeschooling out (which I do some) I'd rather pay Veritas $550 for a year long class that is taught by very knowledgeable people, 3 hours of instruction per week, has high academic expectations and is challenging enough that it takes that subject completely off my plate (which is part of point of outsourcing) than pay CC $1300 a year for Challenge and still have to supplement everything.

 

Heather

[angela in ohio]

In addition, I had an 8th grader at the time we did CC who was supposed to be in Challenge and ended up only in 2 of their classes - in Challenge A which is supposed to be high school.

 

Challenge A is actually for 7th graders. I know some at CC will say that it can be supplemented to make it enough for high school credit, but it's not meant to be high school level.

[Mandy in TN]

In addition, I had an 8th grader at the time we did CC who was supposed to be in Challenge and ended up only in 2 of their classes - in Challenge A which is supposed to be high school.

 

Challenge A is actually for 7th graders. I know some at CC will say that it can be supplemented to make it enough for high school credit, but it's not meant to be high school level.

I'm so sorry, but yeah you were misinformed. Challenge A is 7th grade. Challenge B is 8th grade. Challenge I-IV is high school.

 

Mandy

[Heather in VA]

Challenge A is actually for 7th graders. I know some at CC will say that it can be supplemented to make it enough for high school credit, but it's not meant to be high school level.

 

Oops - I made a typo. She was in Challenge 1.

 

Heather

[angela in ohio]

Oops - I made a typo. She was in Challenge 1.

 

Heather

 

Okay, that makes sense. And I agree with you about Challenge I. ;)

[Jennefer@SSA]

I just wanted to say that this thread has been so encouraging to me. I have so many friends doing CC and LOVE it. I am truly glad that they have found something that works so well for their family and that is a perfect fit.

 

Still until this thread I hadn't really enumerated WHY it wasn't a fit for us right now. I just knew. It was helpful for me to think through this for us and to find others for whom it has been the same (or at least similar). I am the only homeschooler I know who is not involved in some sort of co-op. Sometimes I feel like a bit of an oddball. What is the deal with ME that I cannot find a fit for my family, ya know?! I know no co-op will ever be perfect but so far I have not found one where the benefits for us (and there are definitely benefits, no doubt) outweigh the negatives (as perceived by me, of course ;))

 

Anyway, thank you all for sharing. You have helped and encouraged me tremendously.

 

Also, as an aside, I plan to make a "Memory Board" for each of my boys this summer. I spent some time with a friend who is a CC tutor and I want to take what I like best about CC and make it a better fit for my family. I am thinking through what this will look like for us. I want to be a bit more systematic for us next year and having it all in one place I think will be a huge help. Any ideas or suggestions anyone want to add as I start to contemplate this?

[Melissa in St Louis]

I have so many friends doing CC and LOVE it. I am truly glad that they have found something that works so well for their family and that is a perfect fit.

 

Still until this thread I hadn't really enumerated WHY it wasn't a fit for us right now. I just knew. It was helpful for me to think through this for us and to find others for whom it has been the same (or at least similar). I am the only homeschooler I know who is not involved in some sort of co-op. Sometimes I feel like a bit of an oddball. What is the deal with ME that I cannot find a fit for my family, ya know?! I know no co-op will ever be perfect but so far I have not found one where the benefits for us (and there are definitely benefits, no doubt) outweigh the negatives (as perceived by me, of course ;))

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: Yep, this is EXACTLY how I'm feeling! :tongue_smilie:

[Karis]

Just a question...

 

Would many of these "issues" be non-issues or "easily addressed" / "no -longer - an issue" issues if CC was less expensive and seen as an "add on?"

 

As far as the editing/ not agreeing - is the perception that CC is unwilling to make changes or people assuming that the need for changes shouldn't exist period or that there are too many needed changes. I guess it's a combo. I often think the heart of the issue is PRIDE.

 

Homeschoolers always think they know best (and they may or may not for their own children) We are QUICK to cut some stuff loose if it doesn't fit our need/ want etc... That's why we homeschool - flexibility and freedom.

 

I know when my kids were in private school - I didn't boldly complain about the texts THEY chose. I'm not on the board, I didn't choose the curriculum. They were open to discussing whatever and accepted feedback. But if they used "Whatever Text" I had the freedom to supplement.

 

Public school families don't **moan (you know what I'm thinking here) and complain about the books/ incorrect info. in the books. But **WE are quick to freely express our "right" to share our displeasure.

 

You can't please all the people all the time. Wise people know this. Parents all over the world address the perceived lack in their educational resources.

 

I guess I'm curious about the discontent.

People are genuinely bothered when something doesn't fit for them.

 

There will never be a perfect curriculum / plan/ co-op class etc... for everybody. Find what works for you and your fam. and flow with it. These boards/ opinions on thses boards have a tremendous amount of improper influence. We come here to bounce ideas off of one another and consider various views/ see what's working...

 

eventually we all need to make our own decisions.

[Mandy in TN]

Like I said in my reason why to join CC, at $13/wk I don't think that CC in expensive. It is certainly not expensive based on the other things in my area.

 

This semester we joined Classical Conversations. Ultimately for our family we decided that Classical Conversations would be a postive addition to our home school experience by providing a supportive home education community and by scheduling the survey topics of science and history so that I can focus on the mastery subjects of reading and math.

 

My son loves the program and it has totally been worth it for me to let go of controling the topic sequence of the survey subjects of history and science. We do have to spend time learning the memory work in context, but again that has been totally worth it.

 

We are going back next year. I just meant to line up what I thought were 6 good reasons to join and 6 good reasons not to join. For us the reasons to join totally lined up with where we are in our homeschool journey.

Mandy

[Melissa in St Louis]

Thank you so much for all the great replies. It's so interesting to hear so many different views! I spent last night typing up 3 pages of my own perceived pros/cons to give to my hubby to peruse. Hopefully he'll be able to sift through it and give me some kind of feedback. :tongue_smilie:

 

Thank you all for taking time to respond -- it is much appreciated! :001_smile:

[AFwife Claire]

Just a question...

 

Would many of these "issues" be non-issues or "easily addressed" / "no -longer - an issue" issues if CC was less expensive and seen as an "add on?"

 

As far as the editing/ not agreeing - is the perception that CC is unwilling to make changes or people assuming that the need for changes shouldn't exist period or that there are too many needed changes. I guess it's a combo. I often think the heart of the issue is PRIDE.

 

Homeschoolers always think they know best (and they may or may not for their own children) We are QUICK to cut some stuff loose if it doesn't fit our need/ want etc... That's why we homeschool - flexibility and freedom.

 

I know when my kids were in private school - I didn't boldly complain about the texts THEY chose. I'm not on the board, I didn't choose the curriculum. They were open to discussing whatever and accepted feedback. But if they used "Whatever Text" I had the freedom to supplement.

 

Public school families don't **moan (you know what I'm thinking here) and complain about the books/ incorrect info. in the books. But **WE are quick to freely express our "right" to share our displeasure.

 

You can't please all the people all the time. Wise people know this. Parents all over the world address the perceived lack in their educational resources.

 

I guess I'm curious about the discontent.

People are genuinely bothered when something doesn't fit for them.

 

There will never be a perfect curriculum / plan/ co-op class etc... for everybody. Find what works for you and your fam. and flow with it. These boards/ opinions on thses boards have a tremendous amount of improper influence. We come here to bounce ideas off of one another and consider various views/ see what's working...

 

eventually we all need to make our own decisions.

 

I definitely agree there are no perfect programs! But for me, what was the most bothersome about CC's attitude was that they SAY their purpose is to help ordinary parents homeschool classically. And then they are very condescending about that, as if you should never question what they are doing or how they are doing it because they know all, as opposed to you uneducated little peon who could never really implement the classical method without their strict guidance and help. So at a public or private school, I would be willingly delegating the responsibility of educating my kids to the school, so I wouldn't feel like I needed to complain all the time or whatever. But with CC, they are supposed to be a partner with me, but instead, I got the feeling they were a bossy and overbearing MIL who always had to be right and could not be questioned! So I guess I saw the problem as pride as well, but on CC's part, not on the part of the parents.

[Hedgehogs4]

Just a question...

 

As far as the editing/ not agreeing - is the perception that CC is unwilling to make changes or people assuming that the need for changes shouldn't exist period or that there are too many needed changes. I guess it's a combo. I often think the heart of the issue is PRIDE.

 

Homeschoolers always think they know best (and they may or may not for their own children) We are QUICK to cut some stuff loose if it doesn't fit our need/ want etc... That's why we homeschool - flexibility and freedom.

 

I know when my kids were in private school - I didn't boldly complain about the texts THEY chose. I'm not on the board, I didn't choose the curriculum. They were open to discussing whatever and accepted feedback. But if they used "Whatever Text" I had the freedom to supplement.

 

Public school families don't **moan (you know what I'm thinking here) and complain about the books/ incorrect info. in the books. But **WE are quick to freely express our "right" to share our displeasure.

 

You can't please all the people all the time. Wise people know this. Parents all over the world address the perceived lack in their educational resources.

 

I guess I'm curious about the discontent.

People are genuinely bothered when something doesn't fit for them.

 

There will never be a perfect curriculum / plan/ co-op class etc... for everybody. Find what works for you and your fam. and flow with it. These boards/ opinions on thses boards have a tremendous amount of improper influence. We come here to bounce ideas off of one another and consider various views/ see what's working...

 

eventually we all need to make our own decisions.

 

I think you've stumbled on something reallly important here. People get really bugged when CC doesn't listen to all of their complaints about the errata or why this and not that...I admit it's not perfect (their geography drives me batty, for example), but it is SUCH a large organization and growing exponentially that they simply cannot handle every little complaint flying at them, and they can only publish so many revisions of the book (people would be freaking out if they published a new edition every year), etc. I think it's a very practical reason why they don't respond the way people want them to. I think there is a certain level of pride involved...not necessarily on the part of CC (though I can't say for sure) but on the parts of parents, all of whom have a different idea of which way is "best." Even if it is pride on the part of CC, it would not be the first time they were accused of being inflexible or prideful and unwilling to listen to suggestions, but I'm not convinced that this is the problem.

 

If you don't think CC is for you, then it probably isn't. If you go into it thinking you are not going to like it, you won't. It all depends on what you are looking for. It certainly is not for everyone, and even for those for whom it does work, it isn't necessarily perfect. Just because people are really singing the praises of something doesn't mean they think it's perfect. If they do, they're deceived or lying.

 

In response to the people who are aggravated by memorizing things "out of context" I have this to say...YOU are the one who provides the context. If the out-of-context thing bothers you, then CC as an add-on does not really work. Using it as a spine, then coming home and providing the context for the material really makes it fun. We do lap-books, read books, talk about the material at home. Sometimes it's just a matter of time, waiting for the context to come, such as in the math facts. As my son was memorizing the associative / distributive, and identity laws this cycle he said to my husband, "Dad, you understand what all this means, right?" His dad assured him that he did and he was fine with that, knowing full well that he will fill in that info later. It's another reason why I don't really recommend starting CC with a first child until about grade 3 because a child at that age can understand why they are learning something without all the context for it. Letting them know it will be useful to them later is a good enough reason--at least it has been for my child.

 

The complaint has also been made that CC's memory work doesn't include poetry. We add this in at home on our own. It is not "too much" to add in. We also add in additional scripture. Again, it is not "too much" because the more kids memorize, the more they are are ABLE to memorize. I am astonished at how much and how quickly my children memorize. It seems the jar is never stuffed full. Also, I think if CC did include poetry, people would complain that it, too, was out of context, was poorly selected, too hard, not enough, etc. Personally I think it's wise the CC stays away from that one.

[Hedgehogs4]

I definitely agree there are no perfect programs! But for me, what was the most bothersome about CC's attitude was that they SAY their purpose is to help ordinary parents homeschool classically. And then they are very condescending about that, as if you should never question what they are doing or how they are doing it because they know all, as opposed to you uneducated little peon who could never really implement the classical method without their strict guidance and help. So at a public or private school, I would be willingly delegating the responsibility of educating my kids to the school, so I wouldn't feel like I needed to complain all the time or whatever. But with CC, they are supposed to be a partner with me, but instead, I got the feeling they were a bossy and overbearing MIL who always had to be right and could not be questioned! So I guess I saw the problem as pride as well, but on CC's part, not on the part of the parents.

 

What you are saying here is all VERY subjective. Perhaps you have had a negative experience, (and eta I'm really sorry that is the case!) I personally feel as though I have the ear of my director, state director and even the national director. If I had an issue I feel very confident that I could go and speak with them and they would listen, and if not take my suggestion into consideration, at least explain to me their side of things. They strike me as humble, caring women who really want to help.

Edited March 26, 2011 by Hedgehogs4

[TheAutumnOak]

I am the only homeschooler I know who is not involved in some sort of co-op. Sometimes I feel like a bit of an oddball.

 

:iagree:

[Marie463]

I think you've stumbled on something reallly important here. People get really bugged when CC doesn't listen to all of their complaints about the errata or why this and not that...I admit it's not perfect (their geography drives me batty, for example), but it is SUCH a large organization and growing exponentially that they simply cannot handle every little complaint flying at them, and they can only publish so many revisions of the book (people would be freaking out if they published a new edition every year), etc. I think it's a very practical reason why they don't respond the way people want them to. I think there is a certain level of pride involved...not necessarily on the part of CC (though I can't say for sure) but on the parts of parents, all of whom have a different idea of which way is "best." Even if it is pride on the part of CC, it would not be the first time they were accused of being inflexible or prideful and unwilling to listen to suggestions, but I'm not convinced that this is the problem.

 

If you don't think CC is for you, then it probably isn't. If you go into it thinking you are not going to like it, you won't. It all depends on what you are looking for. It certainly is not for everyone, and even for those for whom it does work, it isn't necessarily perfect. Just because people are really singing the praises of something doesn't mean they think it's perfect. If they do, they're deceived or lying.

 

In response to the people who are aggravated by memorizing things "out of context" I have this to say...YOU are the one who provides the context. If the out-of-context thing bothers you, then CC as an add-on does not really work. Using it as a spine, then coming home and providing the context for the material really makes it fun. We do lap-books, read books, talk about the material at home. Sometimes it's just a matter of time, waiting for the context to come, such as in the math facts. As my son was memorizing the associative / distributive, and identity laws this cycle he said to my husband, "Dad, you understand what all this means, right?" His dad assured him that he did and he was fine with that, knowing full well that he will fill in that info later. It's another reason why I don't really recommend starting CC with a first child until about grade 3 because a child at that age can understand why they are learning something without all the context for it. Letting them know it will be useful to them later is a good enough reason--at least it has been for my child.

 

The complaint has also been made that CC's memory work doesn't include poetry. We add this in at home on our own. It is not "too much" to add in. We also add in additional scripture. Again, it is not "too much" because the more kids memorize, the more they are are ABLE to memorize. I am astonished at how much and how quickly my children memorize. It seems the jar is never stuffed full. Also, I think if CC did include poetry, people would complain that it, too, was out of context, was poorly selected, too hard, not enough, etc. Personally I think it's wise the CC stays away from that one.

 

:iagree:

 

Great discussion. Our family loves CC!

 

I think that it comes down to the "you need to start somewhere" principle. So many times we (ok, I!) have a great idea and then another great idea and then another. And then I refine it, and research it, and eventually months have passed before I have actually acted on it! That is one of the things that I admire about CC and Leigh Bortins...for those of us who struggle with the actual "doing" part she has already "done" it. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Can I amend, expand, correct at home? Absolutely.

 

Another pro about CC that I would add to the list is the consistency. When life gets in the way, CC provides a bit of insurance that our homeschool will continue. We had a particularly rough few weeks in the fall (personal family stuff) yet CC continued. My kids got a least some schoolin' that week - awesome.

 

I will agree that CC is not for every family. Just research and pray about it!

[Mommamia]

I agree with Jennefer and AutumnOak. I have found this thread very encouraging as well.

 

So, maybe we are not oddballs {thinking we are the only homeschoolers not in a co-op} We are not the only ones. I think it's just that many people who are involved in a co-op are more vocal about it. YKWIM? I know several homeschool moms in real life who are not part of a co-op. Including homeschool moms who have graduated dc and never participated in a co-op or group.

 

Hope I'm not taking a tangent with my reply. Just wanted to share some encouragement.

[G5052]

Curriculum is only part of it. At times I've been disappointed, but our overall experience has been good because of the PEOPLE. I'm agreement with 90% of what they put out, and that's good enough for me.

 

Much of how good a tutor or director is comes from who they are as a person and how important each class session is to them, not from training. So I always recommend considering the people involved before signing up, particularly for Challenge which involves more $$$ and committment. It isn't about just whether you like the curriculum or not.

[Beth in SW WA]

I definitely agree there are no perfect programs! But for me, what was the most bothersome about CC's attitude was that they SAY their purpose is to help ordinary parents homeschool classically. And then they are very condescending about that, as if you should never question what they are doing or how they are doing it because they know all, as opposed to you uneducated little peon who could never really implement the classical method without their strict guidance and help. So at a public or private school, I would be willingly delegating the responsibility of educating my kids to the school, so I wouldn't feel like I needed to complain all the time or whatever. But with CC, they are supposed to be a partner with me, but instead, I got the feeling they were a bossy and overbearing MIL who always had to be right and could not be questioned! So I guess I saw the problem as pride as well, but on CC's part, not on the part of the parents.

 

 

Your experience at your CC certainly does not reflect or describe my CC. I am sorry to hear you had a tough time. I am thoroughly enjoying our new CC.

[AFwife Claire]

Ack, I'm making everyone think I hated my CC group, and that wasn't at all the case! I loved the ladies, and I actually see a good deal of them in another co-op that we are all involved in as well--so already having that social outlet was another factor in us deciding not to come back to CC (that co-op is basically unit studies--I count it as enrichment, and it is TONS cheaper!). The attitudes I was talking about mainly came through the parent practicum/tutor training (and I definitely think I just went to a lemon of one, because lots of people rave about how helpful and useful theirs was), and also on the CC tutor boards, whenever a tutor would question something in the book or why things were done in such a way or whatever. It was NOT my group or my director who were like this! I don't want to leave anyone with a bad impression of my specific group! : )

[SonshineLearner]

Claire,

 

I understand!! You are SOOOO right. The attitude and problems are usually not at the local level. It's great if families joining don't even understand. I, too, loved my group and with the families nothing but the best. For me, it has soured the whole thing about ministry/business and a larger "governing" homeschool group. I'll never belong to one again... It's partially this.... I love the families more than the program... others love the program more than the families..... I think that when you start to drink the koolaid....well... I never did like koolaid.

:(

 

(BUT, yes, I love the families)

[snipsnsnailsx5]

Like I said in my reason why to join CC, at $13/wk I don't think that CC in expensive. It is certainly not expensive based on the other things in my area.

 

This semester we joined Classical Conversations. Ultimately for our family we decided that Classical Conversations would be a postive addition to our home school experience by providing a supportive home education community and by scheduling the survey topics of science and history so that I can focus on the mastery subjects of reading and math.

 

My son loves the program and it has totally been worth it for me to let go of controling the topic sequence of the survey subjects of history and science. We do have to spend time learning the memory work in context, but again that has been totally worth it.

 

We are going back next year. I just meant to line up what I thought were 6 good reasons to join and 6 good reasons not to join. For us the reasons to join totally lined up with where we are in our homeschool journey.

Mandy

 

$13/wk doesn't seem like much, but $102/week is a lot. Yikes! I think its just not cost effective for large families like ours. :( Its a bummer because I still think the CC program is great, and I'd do it - and could probably convince my DH to go for it, if it was a lot less money. He wouldn't be so hesitant and doubting the program if we didn't have to spend as much money.

[Mandy in TN]

Doodle's 3 hour art/drama class is $65/ month and Kumon math is $90/ month. We take violin from a man who is Suzuki certified, but he is a former homeschooler and only charges us $17.50 for each 1/2 hour we see him. For violin that is an incredible deal. (Yes, I am saying that a 1/2 hour of violin costs more than 3 hours of CC and that I know that is very cheap for violin lessons.)

 

Sure the other educational homeschool tutorials in my area are drop off, but they cost as much or more than CC. For the most part these groups aren't nearly as organized as CC- most of the time you don't know what they will be offering from one year to the next.

 

I realize that for a large family any cost will add up quickly, but comparatively speaking CC is not expensive.

Mandy

[Hedgehogs4]

Claire,

 

I understand!! You are SOOOO right. The attitude and problems are usually not at the local level. It's great if families joining don't even understand. I, too, loved my group and with the families nothing but the best. For me, it has soured the whole thing about ministry/business and a larger "governing" homeschool group. I'll never belong to one again... It's partially this.... I love the families more than the program... others love the program more than the families..... I think that when you start to drink the koolaid....well... I never did like koolaid.

:(

 

(BUT, yes, I love the families)

 

:lol: there do seem to be the "koolaid" drinkers. I had to step back for a year and evaluate if CC really was for us before going back to it. Going back with a balanced perspective made all the difference, and as a result we have had the best school year yet.

 

I think that there are people who think that if they are doing something or using product X or curriculum Y or attending Coop A, then it has to be the very best and nothing else can compete, disagree or refute them or they have failed in some way.

 

I for one feel a bit like a failure for NEEDING something like CC as a "crutch" in order to help me give my homeschool structure and discipline. I really wish I could manufacture and maintain my own scholastic agenda more along SWB's guidelines. I use hers as much as possible, but I personally need help along the way.

 

There's always something or someone who can do something a bit better in one area or another. Just go with what works. I guess what I'm saying is you're not weird if you don't like CC. :-)

Edited March 27, 2011 by Hedgehogs4

[SonshineLearner]

So Kelly,

 

Here's a question, if people like "accountability" and would like more "in context" and accurate memory work, why aren't the co-ops with this set-up? Does it only work if you charge families? Pay a Director? I actually loved Directing, and would have done it free, and will do it free. Funny thing... I was going to give families a $50 off like... per student... if they turned in their registration early this year... Oh well... now I'm not directing... and for our co-op... we're only charging a minimal fee to cover things... So, I went from $50 off... to... well... free :) And... I'm lovin' it!!! Can't wait to see how it goes this September!!!

:)

[Mandy in TN]

So Kelly,

 

Here's a question, if people like "accountability" and would like more "in context" and accurate memory work, why aren't the co-ops with this set-up? Does it only work if you charge families? Pay a Director? I actually loved Directing, and would have done it free, and will do it free. Funny thing... I was going to give families a $50 off like... per student... if they turned in their registration early this year... Oh well... now I'm not directing... and for our co-op... we're only charging a minimal fee to cover things... So, I went from $50 off... to... well... free :) And... I'm lovin' it!!! Can't wait to see how it goes this September!!!

:)

Not Kelly, but it has been my experience that if you don't charge for it, then people don't show up! If they show up, they are often late or unprepared. So, yes you must charge money or there is no respect for the work put into it. Although since you previously directed a CC group, perhaps some of that respect will carry over to the new group.

 

As for the accountability and setting up an independent group with better memory work, that sounds great but if it is just a local thing instead of a business then (unless you have a highly qualified strong leader) you end up with too many chiefs and not enough Indians. Everyone wants to do what they think is best and the group devolves into disorganization.

 

Mandy

[Woodland_Mom]

My family and I have been a part of our local CC group for 4 years. Honestly, each year, I weigh whether or not we want to participate again, and so far we keep coming back to CC!

 

For us, Classical Conversations is not the centerpiece of our homeschool. CC supplements other things we do at home. Even though we participate in CC, I am still in charge of what curricula we do in all subjects-- I have the flexibility to use CC to benefit OUR homeschool.

 

CC provides us with a community of like-minded Christian homeschoolers who desire to provide a Classical education for their kids at home. I KNOW that I would not do anywhere near the same level/amount of memory work if I didn't participate in CC. CC has taught me how to do memory work, how to make it fun, and how to cover material efficiently.

 

On average we spend about 15-20 minutes per day on CC memory work, then we get down to business with our regular studies. Some years, my kids have memorized everything, and have made Memory Master. Other years, I choose to focus on the pieces of CC that work for us. When CC is not the core of your curriculum, you really CAN use the pieces that work for you and let things that you don't like go by the wayside. Isn't that what we do with textbooks and other curricula? We homeschoolers use the pieces that will help us and throw out the rest!

 

We have found HUGE value in memorizing 160 historical events on a timeline. Again, and again, my boys have made meaningful connections in their history studies because they KNOW a historical timeline. We have greatly appreciated memorizing large portions of scripture in a group setting. Learning to skip count from 1x1 to 15x15 was a big deal for us--very helpful. When the kids turn 10, they memorizing the math facts and drop the skip counting. Learning math facts like the back of their hands was extremely helpful for my boys. In addition, I can't say enough good about the mapwork we do in CC. My kids know where more countries, capitals, mountain ranges, etc. are than most adults. Love that! Also: CC does a 3 year cycle -- not my favorite thing. But, I appreciate the stories the history songs tell through music. I have tucked my kids into bed many a night only to hear them singing history songs before drifting off to sleep.

 

CC has provided us with a consistent rhythm and fun memorization methods (especially in a group setting) that we would not have if we were doing the memory work at home alone. I love the community of parents and the family feel of our group. The support and encouragement I have received from CC has been invaluable. We love the science experiments, weekly presentations, and the fine arts exposure. --more things that often get thrown to the curb in order to cover the "academic subjects" sufficiently.

 

Classical Conversations certainly has faults. I'm pretty sure co-ops, online programs, and textbooks do, too! I wish moms on the C3 forum could be more real and share criticism more freely. But, on the flip-side, I have been able to download (FREE!) documents that fellow CC'ers chose to share that would have taken me weeks to complete. I'd rather take advantage of the free-sharing of ideas. I'll share my concerns with my hubby or dear friends! :D I wish some of the content of the memory work was different, but I didn't write it, so I don't get to choose it. I could probably list improvements for most curricula/text books sitting on my shelf! I also wish there were time to provide contextual meaning to the material in class -- even just a little bit. But, I also understand that CC REALLY wants parents to do that at home. That gives families control of how (or if) the material is introduced/discussed/researched, etc.

 

For us, the pros HEAVILY outweigh the CONS. I'm thankful for the way CC has blessed our family.

Edited March 27, 2011 by Pylegang

[Chelli]

When CC is not the core of your curriculum, you really CAN use the pieces that work for you and let things that you don't like go by the wayside.

 

This is exactly what I COULDN'T do with CC. I felt like I had to do it all because of how much money we spent to join CC or else we wouldn't be getting the full benefit of the program. IMO, to really enjoy CC, I would have to use their history and science as my curriculum for those subjects and use the history sentence and science memory work for what we studied during the week. I didn't realize I would feel this way when I joined this year. I thought that I could use what I wanted to and add CC on top of it.

 

No way, didn't work for us as a family. Some of the subject matter was WAY over dd's head considering that she is in 1st. I think that the pp who suggested waiting to join until your oldest is in at least 3rd is right. Maybe at some point in the future I could go back to CC, but I would go in with my eyes wide open this time. Use only their history and science! The problem with that is I want to do history and science the way I want to do history and science, not the way CC does history and science (nothing necessarily wrong with it just not enough flexibility for me).

 

Ultimately it comes down to this, if you are a control freak (like me) about your homeschool and how you want things to go (4 year history cycle, ability to spend time on something your kids are really into, etc.), then CC might be hard for you. I did not see anything inherently wrong with the program though, just not a good fit for us. For one thing, I found out that I am not as "classical" as I thought I was (more classical/charlotte mason/unit studies), so learning that has been helpful. I am planning on getting all of the audio CD's and continuing to use the timeline in our school because I like the things we learned, I just want to be able to use them on my time table.

 

I don't think you can make a wrong decision with this one. I don't feel that my family deciding to do CC this year was bad, just a costly learning experience ;) Good luck!

[Brenda in FL]

My family and I have been a part of our local CC group for 4 years. Honestly, each year, I weigh whether or not we want to participate again, and so far we keep coming back to CC!

 

For us, Classical Conversations is not the centerpiece of our homeschool. CC supplements other things we do at home. Even though we participate in CC, I am still in charge of what curricula we do in all subjects-- I have the flexibility to use CC to benefit OUR homeschool.

 

CC provides us with a community of like-minded Christian homeschoolers who desire to provide a Classical education for their kids at home. I KNOW that I would not do anywhere near the same level/amount of memory work if I didn't participate in CC. CC has taught me how to do memory work, how to make it fun, and how to cover material efficiently.

 

On average we spend about 15-20 minutes per day on CC memory work, then we get down to business with our regular studies. Some years, my kids have memorized everything, and have made Memory Master. Other years, I choose to focus on the pieces of CC that work for us. When CC is not the core of your curriculum, you really CAN use the pieces that work for you and let things that you don't like go by the wayside. Isn't that what we do with textbooks and other curricula? We homeschoolers use the pieces that will help us and throw out the rest!

 

We have found HUGE value in memorizing 160 historical events on a timeline. Again, and again, my boys have made meaningful connections in their history studies because they KNOW a historical timeline. We have greatly appreciated memorizing large portions of scripture in a group setting. Learning to skip count from 1x1 to 15x15 was a big deal for us--very helpful. When the kids turn 10, they memorizing the math facts and drop the skip counting. Learning math facts like the back of their hands was extremely helpful for my boys. In addition, I can't say enough good about the mapwork we do in CC. My kids know where more countries, capitals, mountain ranges, etc. are than most adults. Love that! Also: CC does a 3 year cycle -- not my favorite thing. But, I appreciate the stories the history songs tell through music. I have tucked my kids into bed many a night only to hear them singing history songs before drifting off to sleep.

 

CC has provided us with a consistent rhythm and fun memorization methods (especially in a group setting) that we would not have if we were doing the memory work at home alone. I love the community of parents and the family feel of our group. The support and encouragement I have received from CC has been invaluable. We love the science experiments, weekly presentations, and the fine arts exposure. --more things that often get thrown to the curb in order to cover the "academic subjects" sufficiently.

 

Classical Conversations certainly has faults. I'm pretty sure co-ops, online programs, and textbooks do, too! I wish moms on the C3 forum could be more real and share criticism more freely. But, on the flip-side, I have been able to download (FREE!) documents that fellow CC'ers chose to share that would have taken me weeks to complete. I'd rather take advantage of the free-sharing of ideas. I'll share my concerns with my hubby or dear friends! :D I wish some of the content of the memory work was different, but I didn't write it, so I don't get to choose it. I could probably list improvements for most curricula/text books sitting on my shelf! I also wish there were time to provide contextual meaning to the material in class -- even just a little bit. But, I also understand that CC REALLY wants parents to do that at home. That gives families control of how (or if) the material is introduced/discussed/researched, etc.

 

For us, the pros HEAVILY outweigh the CONS. I'm thankful for the way CC has blessed our family.

 

:iagree: This pretty much sums up my estimation of CC. This has been our first year and it has completely met my expectations. I have been homeschooling classically for 8 years. I recognized in CC things I haven't managed to accomplish in our homeschool (memory work, science, presentations, fine arts). We also moved to a new state where we needed to make new connections. CC was the place to find like-minded homeschoolers. It also supports academically what I am trying to do at home. I don't feel that we have the time to spend at a co-op that doesn't support our academics just so that my kids can meet new friends.

 

As far as the cost - it is a little annoying how it all adds up - but as mentioned before $13 per week is not bad. And I don't have to do any planning or teaching!!