Switching/adding instrument (flute??) (sorry, got long...)

[Matryoshka]

My youngest dd is very musical and has been taking piano lessons since she was very little. I actually can't remember which year exactly - she came and sat for 5 minutes beside her older sister's teacher for a year and just played something - she taught herself the whole first Suzuki book (right hand only) the year before I started paying for lessons, which I think was 4yo?

 

Anyhoo - she's just turned 10, and plays quite well, but is uneven about practicing; she likes to learn new stuff but doesn't like to keep up the old stuff. She's been saying she's "bored" with piano. Lately she's been messing around with the recorder and has taught herself a few pieces. I asked her if maybe she'd be interested in flute - she said yes.

 

The benefit of that would be that maybe she could someday play in orchestra - I've seen how beneficial that has been for her sister who plays the violin. She’s a very social kid and I can see that playing with a group could be possibly very motivating for her. That’s so hard with piano.

 

But I'm somewhat hesitant to have her give up piano - she plays so well, and she loves her teacher (who also doesn’t let her get away with things – something she needs). I have no idea where to find a good flute teacher (who would have to be at least somewhat open to learning at least partly by ear - she can read music, but is very ear-driven). Though I think I'm going to use the recorder to reinforce her note-reading skills where I can.

 

I'd also hate her to give up piano on a whim. She's a bit of a dilettante – loves to try new things, but then gets bored and flits to something else. Piano is one thing she’s stuck with long-term (so far). She’s actually been asking to try other instruments for a while – other candidates have been violin (sister takes - hello sibling rivalry), cello (expensive to rent!!), and she even asked about xylophone (too arcane). Flute seems more reasonable to me, which I guess is why I'm consdering it...

 

Should I try to add flute lessons (eek – how to afford it and where to fit it in??). Let her drop the piano for a while and try flute out? If you have a kid who’s taken flute, what’s your experience been like? How good of a prep for flute is the recorder - or are they completely different (I'm thinking fingering - I know they're blown differently)? If it were good prep, I could probably stall her for a while on the flute thing by telling her we were working toward it...

[Greenmama2]

You said she wanted to try violin or cello, have you considered viola? I'm actually a flautist, I'm just suggesting it because she if you think the social aspect will be important she is much more likely to play in a youth orchestra sooner on a string instrument than flute (1-4 flutes vs 16-24ish violins in an orchestra with decent balance). Then again there's always bands...

Fingering on recorder and flute are somewhat similar, as long as you're talking descant recorder which I assume you are. IMO with a 10 year old who already plays piano that's actually a hindrance rather than an advantage. If she does actually move on to flute from recorder she will find it frustrating to be working on tone production and simple technique when she can already read and play a lot of notes.

[redsquirrel]

My son plays both piano and flute. He has played piano since he was 5 and is now 10. Flute got added this september. I should add that the flute is free or we wouldn't be doing it. We have a college locally that has an excellent music school and produces music teachers. They are offering music lessons to homeschooling kids from student teachers.

 

Have you spoken to the piano teacher? I think lots of kids get bored with piano at this age. I know many of his friends who play have also expressed some restlessness. This is a time for honing skills before moving on to much more complicated pieces. They might feel like they are in a bit of a holding pattern. Especially, if she is uneven with practice her skills might be lagging behind her peers.

 

Does her teacher offer a group lesson? My son's piano teacher offer group lessons every other week. They are 'free' in that they are considered part of the program and she doesn't charge extra. She believes that piano playing can be very lonely. When she was a girl she knew no other pianists. The kids from the same level play music games and perform any current pieces and generally get to know each other a little.

 

If she is feeling bored by music then a new instrument might take that feeling away for a little while but it will come back if she doesn't know why she is playing. Is it something she wants? Is it something she loves? Now, I am a big believer in just carrying on with something like music lessons. I am not suggesting she quit. I do think the reasons for her restlessness should be addressed rather than just changing instruments and starting from the begining all over again.

 

The flute has been a big surprise for my son. It isn't easy to get a good tone without lots of practice. With a piano, they can make something that sounds like music pretty early on. The flute can sound pretty bad for a while unless you really practice.

[Bootsie]

My dd(14) played the piano during elementary school. She went to ps in middle school and wanted to be in the band. She played the flute (and the saxophone one year in the jazz band). She enjoyed the flute so much that she gave up piano lessons and opted for additional private flute lessons.

 

The private high school she wanted to attend didn't have band. Since that was a major drawback for her, we told her we would continue private flute lessons. However, she has chosen to back to piano lessons. For a Christmas present she asked to add guitar lessons.

 

She seems to be musically inclined and enjoy learning a lot of different instruments. In many ways learning the flute increased her interest and piano and vice versa. While she has focused on lessons on one instrument at a time, she enjoys spending time to playing and experimenting with the other instrument. I'm not musically inclined at all, and I don't know what a music teacher's opinion would be, but in my dd's case playing multiple instruments has deepened her interest in music and her ability to enjoy music.

[Dmmetler]

I'd suggest adding, rather than dropping piano. Should she ever decide to major in music, most colleges require piano proficiency anyway, and as a wind player, if you can trade off accompanying with another wind player, you'll save a lot of money.

 

Suzuki has a flute school as well, so since Suzuki works for her and she's an auditory learner, look for a Suzuki flute teacher, or at least someone familiar with the method. Obviously, it won't look the same with a 10 yr old as with a 4 yr old, but don't fix what isn't broken.

 

I'd also suggest, since she's ear-driven and playing around with recorder anyway, getting the Suzuki Recorder books/CDs and letting her just listen and play. Recorder is a wonderful instrument for experimenting.

[Matryoshka]

Thanks guys, that's some very helpful feedback.

 

I'd love to find a Suzuki flute teacher - at least from the State find-a-teacher website, there are none near me. But maybe I could find another teacher (or a student willing to teach) that at least isn't hostile to the Suzuki method.

 

I've been hesitant to talk to the piano teacher, as I know she'd want to funnel her into a stringed instrument, as those are the other instruments her school offers. I just don't think this is a stringed instrument kid - she has had lots of fun playing around with her sister's violin, but I get the feeling she'd get turned off by all the bowing. My third dd took a year off from piano to do cello (because the youngest had pretty much caught up to her in piano and she became discouraged), but when she got to the end of Book 1 and had to do more complex bowing, she begged to go back to piano. And oldest is thinking of adding viola (that would be easier, I could probably split her lessons), and she just hates it when youngest 'copies' her.

 

I should probably just play around with the recorder with her for a while, especially if as someone said the fingering is somewhat similar to the flute, and see if she sustains any interest. I have a book full of duets; at the very least I could try and learn some with her and that would hopefully strengthen her skills with note-reading and matching rhythm to someone else.

 

Meanwhile maybe I could cast about for a local flute teacher (or student willing to teach the basics) to see what my options are... If I ended up going that route I think I'd try to keep her in piano as well, but I guess my other dd's experience on the cello should teach me that even if she did take a 'break' from piano it doesn't mean she couldn't go back if flute didn't pan out.

[TKDmom]

How good of a prep for flute is the recorder - or are they completely different (I'm thinking fingering - I know they're blown differently)? If it were good prep, I could probably stall her for a while on the flute thing by telling her we were working toward it...

 

Personally, I don't think the fingerings are very similar. I play flute, and I have a cheap plastic recorder that I was given in 2nd grade. Maybe the more expensive recorders are different, but on my recorder, a B is the first finger, A is the first 2 fingers, G is 3 fingers, etc. Flute fingerings are more complex--it took me years to recognize that there even is a pattern to the flute fingerings (looking at a fingering chart now, the pattern is obvious, so maybe I'm just really slow ;)).

 

Here is a link to a flute fingering chart, if it would help any. It might be a little hard to read if you're not familiar with the keys. Basically, the circles on the top are for the first 3 fingers of your left hand (the thumb is the little circle to the left of them), and the 3 circles on the bottom are for your right hand. The right pinky is the little wedge-shaped key at the bottom. Black keys are the ones that are held down, white keys are open. Clear as mud? :D

[Matryoshka]

Here is a link to a flute fingering chart, if it would help any. It might be a little hard to read if you're not familiar with the keys. Basically, the circles on the top are for the first 3 fingers of your left hand (the thumb is the little circle to the left of them), and the 3 circles on the bottom are for your right hand. The right pinky is the little wedge-shaped key at the bottom. Black keys are the ones that are held down, white keys are open. Clear as mud? :D

 

Actually, that is extremely helpful!! I've been poring over various recorder fingering charts the past few days (I'm teaching myself recorder so I can play along), and the charts are configured the same way, so easy for me to read. :) The fingerings are very similar, especially if you look into some of the alternate fingerings (where the "main" one might not be the same, an "alternate" is sometimes the same as the recorder). Even many of the main ones are the same, and the notes played with the left hand are almost all the same except you keep your right pinky down. It's unlikely we'd get beyond middle C - high E (a bit over an octave) on the recorder, and we're probably also not going to learn a lot of sharps and flats (probably just C#, F# and B-flat), so I'm not concerned with simiilarity past that anyway. :) I only just discovered that the recorder could play higher notes than a high D. Who knew??

[angela in ohio]

I let my dd switch at age 8, but she had never enjoyed the piano. Flute is her thing, and she became a different child when I let her switch. I would let her switch. :001_smile:

 

The one thing I would let her know is that flute is often played in orchestras, where she will need to read music. It is less often played independently than the piano.

 

I found our flute teacher by emailing our homeschool group list. I found our clarinet teacher by checking with the city orchestra; they keep a list of instructors. You could also check university music departments.

 

My dd went from the recorder (in Kindermusik and after) to the flute. It was the recorder that made her realize she loves wind instruments.

[onaclairadeluna]

I am a band teacher and a clarinetist first. I have studied all the wind instruments and learning new fingering is the easiest part of switching from one wind instrument to another. Sure the fingerings are different but the logic behind them is similar. It has been my experience that with the flute there are three kinds of students; those who get the embouchure right away, those who don't but absolutely love flute and have the will power to figure the embouchure out and those who struggle with the embouchure and are much happier playing clarinet or trumpet or something else. So before you rearrange her schedule I'd make sure that she is either really motivated or can produce a sound. You can either hire a flute teacher or perhaps there is someone at a local music store who would be willing to demonstrate flute embouchure (most people without instruction would blow into a flute the same way as a coke bottle but you blow into a flute differently). Good luck

[my2boysteacher]

I also vote for both if you can swing it. My oldest son's teacher told us that because he is so musically gifted he would grow bored playing just one instrument. He advised us to start teaching DS another instrument in about a year.

My neice is also musically gifted, and her teacher through the school system told her the same thing. She started flute in the fall, and her teacher wants her to learn another instrument next school year in addition to the flute.

[Matryoshka]

I am a band teacher and a clarinetist first. I have studied all the wind instruments and learning new fingering is the easiest part of switching from one wind instrument to another. Sure the fingerings are different but the logic behind them is similar. It has been my experience that with the flute there are three kinds of students; those who get the embouchure right away, those who don't but absolutely love flute and have the will power to figure the embouchure out and those who struggle with the embouchure and are much happier playing clarinet or trumpet or something else. So before you rearrange her schedule I'd make sure that she is either really motivated or can produce a sound. You can either hire a flute teacher or perhaps there is someone at a local music store who would be willing to demonstrate flute embouchure (most people without instruction would blow into a flute the same way as a coke bottle but you blow into a flute differently). Good luck

 

More really good info! I had thought about the clarinet for her too, but I think that's my bias showing that I leaned toward flute, as I've always been a bit squicked out by that piece of wood that gets covered with spit in the woodwinds... :tongue_smilie: Maybe I shouldn't pass on my bias. :D

 

Do you think there's someplace we could go that she could try blowing into a flute and/or clarinet? Is that hygenic? Would a music store allow that?

[Shifra]

Here is a link to a flute fingering chart, if it would help any. It might be a little hard to read if you're not familiar with the keys. Basically, the circles on the top are for the first 3 fingers of your left hand (the thumb is the little circle to the left of them), and the 3 circles on the bottom are for your right hand. The right pinky is the little wedge-shaped key at the bottom. Black keys are the ones that are held down, white keys are open. Clear as mud? :D

 

Another reference that you may want to look at is How to Play the Flute by Howard Harrison. I read two other books in the series, How to Play the Guitar and How to Play the Piano, and these books are very helpful when in the beginning stages of learning to play.

[onaclairadeluna]

Do you think there's someplace we could go that she could try blowing into a flute and/or clarinet? Is that hygenic? Would a music store allow that?

 

I would think so. You can call. Make sure to ask if someone at the store would be willing to demonstrate the instrument. Sometimes they will if they have someone that teaches at the store. As far as hygiene you can sanitize a flute with rubbing alcohol or rinse it out and for a clarinet you want to buy a new reed and rinse out the mouthpiece (but don't get the cork wet).

 

Yeah I suppose the spitty read is pretty icky when you think of it. Wind instruments are full of moist and yucky bits. I cleaned out my daughters cornet today and it was quite shocking what came out :ack2:

[Guest rennick]

I've played piano since 3 and flute since 10. Definitely add. While she may be ear-driven, if she has any thoughts of being able to play, even in community orchestra, she'll be unable to if she can't fluently read music. The piano lessons will help with that. I play by ear, but my extensive musical theory knowledge makes it easier (knowing what key we're in, what the signature is, the scales that work with that key, etc.)

 

Unless she hates piano with a passion, I'd be really reluctant to suggest she drop it. I never enjoyed it, until I was 15 and was able to play at youth group. Then it was awesome. (gotta love how fickle kids can be).

[Erica in OR]

Our 10 year old DD added trombone lessons this year on top of her fourth year of piano lessons. However, we decided cut back to piano lessons only every other week.

 

Her trombone teacher said her knowledge of being able to read music (from piano) is a tremendous benefit and has helped her move fairly quickly through the introductory book.

 

Erica in OR

[StephanieZ]

I let my kids add a second instrument once they begged. . . (around age 6, lol) after they each began suzuki violin around age 3. My thoughts were similar to yours. . . didn't want them to drop sth they are good at for sth new when we didn't know if they'd love the new instrument. I thought they might choose after a year or so. . .

 

My oldest never could make a choice. She was happy to do both. Still does, although just this year there seems to be a preference for harp & so we're seeing how it goes not having formal classical violin lessons right now.

 

My second added guitar at age 6 and it was clearly his love quite quickly. After over a year of both, I nudged him to drop the violin & focus on guitar, as it was CLEARLY his passion.

 

My third is 8 now. I am a bit fatigued from years of zillions of lessons & have dragged my feet on her requests to add instruments. . . She does piano, classical violin, and fiddle right now. . . lol

 

I think each child has their own path, and you can play it by ear. If time permits, I think allowing them to just "add" an instrument for 6-12 mos and then make a choice if needed makes an easier transition sometimes.

[deanna1949]

As a piano teacher, I would hope that you would encourage her to keep playing the piano. She is obviously talented in this area, even if she muddles along for awhile. It will be a lot harder to start back again once she's dropped the lessons. The level of interest fluctuates in most students. I nearly dropped lessons at her age, but just a word from an older sister whom I adored ("I wish I'd stuck with the piano") was enough to make me keep at it. And it turned into my life's occupation.

Good luck. It's hard living with a musician. :001_smile:

[angela in ohio]

Do you think there's someplace we could go that she could try blowing into a flute and/or clarinet? Is that hygenic? Would a music store allow that?

 

They definitely do. I recently spent the better part of a day in a very small room listening to dd play dozens of flutes to pick her "upgrade" flute. :glare:

[meet me in paris]

More really good info! I had thought about the clarinet for her too, but I think that's my bias showing that I leaned toward flute, as I've always been a bit squicked out by that piece of wood that gets covered with spit in the woodwinds... :tongue_smilie: Maybe I shouldn't pass on my bias. :D

 

Do you think there's someplace we could go that she could try blowing into a flute and/or clarinet? Is that hygenic? Would a music store allow that?

They will absolutely allow it. My husband is a former PS band director - now he is a military band director. He took my older daughter to the music store and let her try an armful of instruments to see which one she organically made the best sound on. She wanted flute, but it ended up being clarinet. She ended up picking up clarinet very easily!

 

He did the same with another friend of hers. The music stores can give you sterilized mouthpieces and new reeds to try everything out. I would think that if you went in during the middle of the day when they are not busy they would be happy to help your daugher select the right instrument (maybe call ahead and make an appointment). They have little practice rooms where she can try them out of the public eye. :)

 

Good luck!