2nd Grade Math Is *Killing* Me

[Caraway]

My son is in 2nd grade. I would like him to have a very good, strong foundation in math, even if it means moving slowly now.

 

We tried Horizons, and RS, before settling on MUS. I believe that MUS is good for us, and not the problem. I think that the problem is between my son and I.

 

We finished Alpha, and have been reviewing. In my fantasy world I would be able to shout out "8+7" at the grocery store and without thinking he would supply "15!" We weren't quite there, but I thought that we were getting close.

 

Today we started Beta. Which begins with review of place value. Then we get to problems like "8+2", His answers go like this: "(long whiny pause) 11? 12? I can't do this. Its TOO hard. I hate this. I can't do this.... blah, blah, blah."

 

:banghead:

 

By the time we are done I am ready to dig my eyeballs out with a spork.

 

I don't know what to do. If I continue with games and review, I sense that we could still be learning basic addition facts in 5 yrs. Should I drop him off at Kumon and go get coffee? Bribe him with Lego sets for learning the facts, or even for decent attitude? I am at a total loss.

 

His little routine doesn't make the lesson end BTW, it just makes it take forever. And makes me want to drink heavily.

 

Please help.

[thowell]

I haven't used MUS but everything else dd7 has done seemed to work well at the time only to later find out she hadn't retained it. We have been using Professor B for awhile now and I am really impressed with how it cements those facts. Also if you think he knows them try tossing the ball back and forth while he gives the answers. Is this only in math? Is there too much writing involved? If so I think at this age oral review is just fine. Most everything we do is oral and occasionally she will do an exercise on the white board. I wish you well it took me 3 programs to find professor B an so far so good!

[Mama2Many4]

I can't offer any advice, but just wanted to give you :grouphug: since I go through the same thing with my second grade son.

[MerryAtHope]

I'd tell him, "That's ok, let's try it with the blocks!" Then get out the blocks. If he's hesitant to build with them, you build some first, and see if he can eventually take over.

 

I didn't use MUS at this level (my son is using it for pre-algebra, we used Horizons for elementary), but I always went to some kind of blocks when my kids were struggling with any concept, so I think the MUS blocks would be perfect for this. Make it concrete and let it be fun, and use them as long as he needs them.

 

BTW, neither of my kids could respond quickly to oral math questions, unless they involved food. You have 8 cookies, and I have 2. How many cookies do we have all together? (Or, if you eat your 8 cookies, and my 2 cookies, how many cookies did you eat all together? And now who has a stomach ache?! LOL!). We didn't literally eat cookies, but that was something they really liked me to do with oral questions. They especially liked if I seemed a bit indignant that they would eat my cookies! That made math fun for us.

 

You can use edible manipulatives too--cheerios, chocolate chips, raisins, m&m's, peanuts etc... can work well for smaller math problems like this.

 

My kids also liked playing Math War. Same as the regular card game War, both players get half a deck of cards. But instead of turning up only 1 card, each player turns up 2 cards and adds them. Highest total wins all 4 cards. Keep going until one person has all of the cards. Or until tired :-). You can also play multiplication war.

 

Easier play--take out the J's, Q's & K's, and Aces are 1's.

Harder play--J=11, Q=12, K=13, A=14.

 

Merry :-)

Edited November 3, 2010 by MerryAtHope

[Ravin]

I think it has more to do with age/attitude than with any curriculum. We're in the same spot. I settled on doing a combination of reviewing and continuing forward with new stuff. So DD seems to grok carrying in addition just fine, but still hasn't got her addition facts memorized.

 

I keep reminding myself that the textbook we're using actually assumed you wouldn't start formal math until 3rd grade. Something I may well do with the next one...

[Kates]

At this age, knowing the facts and being able to apply them regularly can be two different things. He may not be the "rattle them off" kid - mine isn't - but he can still have a strong math ability.

 

I know this sounds counterintuitive, but I've seen it with mine...he can answer them one day, but can't do it the next, and I feel like he will never be able to function on his own. Low and behold, as soon as he understood the idea behind subtraction, he had his addition facts down. As soon as he understood multiplication, the subtraction facts became solid. And on, and on.

 

He's now turning 13 and finishing Algebra 1, starting Algebra 2 in the next few weeks. Once he finishes that, he'll be working on a real-life project to plan out buying and fully reno'ing a home. (We won't actually carry it out, but he has a close friend who works in the reno industry, who will be mentoring him through the process.) Next year, he's planning to work through geometry and start trig. They do learn, promise - even when they seem like they won't.

 

I would honestly just move on. Very likely, the facts will click when he needs them, even if he can't rattle them off randomly. And IMO, that's when it's important to have them - when they can be applied.

 

Just my thoughts...

[Ali in OR]

For us, knowing the facts cold didn't really get finalized until dds were doing harder problems. My 2nd grader is just now really demonstrating that she knows her facts well as she does 3 and 4 digit addition with renaming. She just told me the other day that now it seems easy--I think just through the seemingly endless repetition of having to do it over and over, day after day. So I wouldn't necessarily hold back and stay at the one-digit facts stage until mastery is demonstrated; our experience has shown that mastery will happen over time as the skills are used. Just need a little extra mama patience!

[kalanamak]

My son likes to play war with addition cards (you can get a cheap deck with cute sea creatures on them).

Zeus on the Loose helped us A LOT. I am betting we have played it 1000 times. We wore out the deck.

But really, my son didn't get these solid until he started learning his multiplication facts. Somehow they clicked, then. I had NO luck, in the beginning, with things like comparing 7+5 to 6+6 or 9+6 being the same as 10+5. SM did this "make a ten" mechanism, but it didn't ring his bell one bit. I'm still waiting for that eureka.

 

:grouphug: Every time I hit one of these snags, it seems to be the end of my sanity. He either suddenly "gets" it, or I figure a way around it. I've started the triangle flash cards and games early for the multiplication facts, and it is going better, but I suspect it is because he is 8, not 7.

HTH.

[PeterPan]

Caraway, I think you hit on it exactly, that sometimes the problem is the teacher. But it's not that you're a bad teacher. It's that you haven't yet identified your own presuppositions and assumptions. You're coming into the time where differences in learning styles, thinking/processing styles, and disorders really come to a head. In K5 everyone (or almost everyone) looks great, lol. Now you're to the age where you wonder if you're doing something wrong or he's being bad. I only have two kids, and hence less hindsite, but I think kids are bad much less than we think and trying to tell us something much more than we realize.

 

Things he could be trying to tell you:

-I don't retain facts the way you've been practicing them.

-I don't use the same processing bent (auditory, visual, whatever) as you.

-I don't have words to tell you all this, so I'm just frustrated and letting it come out as bad behavior.

 

Those are good starting places. You're not a bad teacher, and having tried 3 curricula it's probably NOT a matter of switching curricula. I would do a learning styles assessment. There are some available free if you google, and they might give you some leads. I would start considering dyslexia and see if anyone on either side of your family has any similar learning issues. I would give YOURSELF the learning styles assessment so you can see where your own bents as a teacher are swaying you toward curricula, methods, expectations, etc. that might fit *you* more than him. Sonlight is all wet on this one. The goal is not to teach like you wish you had been taught. It's to teach the way your *child* needs to be taught.

 

If for instance it turns out you are an auditory learner and he is visual, you need to change some things. Thing #1 I did was give my dd a math fact chart and stop doing drills. My dd only learns in context (in those bigger problems and word problems others were suggesting to you), so isolated fact drill goes in one eyeball and out the other. Card games don't carry over for her, because they are auditory. But give her a fact chart, and WOW is she fast! And now, a year later, I'm finally seeing the speed and confidence I wanted all along. I could have continued to beat it into her, but doing it in a way that fit her brain made it work a lot better. So I MOVED ON in the math, gave her harder problems, but let her use a chart. Eventually they memorize the chart and find it faster to pull from their brain than the paper. That's not the solution for all kids, but it was for mine.

 

This is also the age where issues with visual processing, etc. become issues. You're NOT doing a bad job, and nothing you're seeing is your imagination. You just need to funnel it into a more positive way: what does this tell me about how his brain works, is this normal or a problem, and what do I do about it?

 

He'll get there. He just might not get there at the speed and in the way you were thinking. It's not like we can make these things happen. And a certain amount of fact volatility is normal. I remember being in 5th grade and feeling very unconfident of my facts. When I asked the teacher to use the flashcards, she said I didn't need them. Well clearly *I* thought I did. But I got through calculus without bothering to learn 11X11 and 12X12. As he needs to learn it and has it in front of him, he'll learn it.

[Mandy in TN]

I am a huge fan of Kumon, but more than that I am hearing that you "are ready to dig <your> eyeballs out with a spork" and "want to drink heavily."

 

Why don't you take a break for a couple of weeks and have the little man work independently through the Kumon workbook My Book of Simple Addition? This may boost his confidence, but even if it doesn't it will give you time to regroup emotionally.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[5knights3maidens]

My dds are 7 and 5. We use dice. The 7 year old can do 3;4 and more digit addition/subraction but, she is not fast. So, that is why we have been using dice and making up games. They love it. We pulled out the "fancy" dice with many numbers on them. That was even better. Make up some new games. :001_smile:

Oh, they also write down the numbers they roll so they can see it on paper also. ;)

[*Inna*]

I can relate!

 

Lately we've started using math facts drill every day from http://www.math-drills.com/addition.shtml ,recommended by someone on this forum, and it really makes the difference. I think she didn't have enough repetition.

 

She still doesn't rattle the answers off right away, but at least she doesn't use her fingers every time.

[monalisa]

I'm right there with you! My dd 7 understands all math concepts we've covered in 2nd grade and can do the work, but is pretty terrible on facts (at least speed-wise, eventually she can get them right). I feel for you! :grouphug: Math has been a crying event for us at times over this year and last over math facts too. I just got her a Flashmaster, and it seems to be helping her some (and she enjoys using it).

Edited November 4, 2010 by monalisa

[Angie in VA]

.What we did at that age/grade.

[trying my best]

My 5 year old son is on 2nd grade for Math as well.

I make it as fun as possible.

I got him Kumon book to practice the math drills.

 

So this is how i introduced him to addition:

5+2= I always ask him to find a bigger number. Then on top of smaller number he writes the ammount of dots as the number tells - in this case 2 dots goes above 2. So he sees 5 and counts those dots on.

I also reward everything with a penny for each correct answer. He did those dots for about 2 days then he realized he can just visualize those dots in his head. So he adds on smaller number in his head.

 

If the problem has all numbers more than 5 then we do different trick

8+7=

we do a rectangle - he writes 8 in one corner of ractangle and 2 in another (because 8+2 make 10), so we borrowed that 2 from 7, then he drew lines representing how much left from 7 (which is 5 lines) so he writes 10+5=15

 

We did this for about 2 weeks now he sees in his head how we split the number so its easier to calculate.

 

At the end of the lesson he counts his pennies and exchanges it for bigger coints like quoter or dime... money counting there too :)

[nicholsonhomeschool]

For what it is worth... I ran into my calculus teacher from high school a few months ago and was bemoaning the fact that my son "gets" the math concepts but doesn't rattle off math facts. My teacher, for whom I have great respect and admiration, told me that in the higher maths it is so much more important to have different ways to "figure it out" that to "rattle it off." I felt better about giving my son (7) the few extra moments to get to his answer.

[King Alfred Academy]

I have nothing for you except to say that you must come to park day more often. I need more of you! This post is cracking me up! Not that I am laughing in the face of your struggles, mind you. (I could have written it, btw. Same problem here.)

[Annie Laurie]

I think it has more to do with age/attitude than with any curriculum.

 

Yes. My son is in 4th but I'm having the same issue with him over one math concept he can not seem to get without concrete manipulatives. We use RS and I love it, but he is not getting the method for this particular concept. I can commiserate with feeling just done at the end of a math session. I was wound very tight after today's session with my son.

 

I just keep telling myself that if we have to spend months on this concept, fine. He will get it eventually and I want true mastery before we move on. We're not moving on just because 4th graders are suppose to be past what he's stuck on. So we'll keep reviewing it every day.

[Donna T.]

Just a few months may make a big difference in his maturity and willingness to think through the problems. I really don't expect my children to have all the facts memorized until the end of 2nd grade. I know alot of children learn them earlier and I'm sure many are very capable of doing so, but I didn't push it with my boys and they both learned their facts quite effortlessly just by doing one MUS lesson a day and then eventually it just "clicked''' for them. I would continue with MUS doing one page a day, using the blocks if needed to help him to work the problems out, and start each lesson with a quick review of the math facts from Alpha using flashcards that include the answer (such as, 8+2=10). I think this is so important for some children. Some children really need to see the answers.

[kim.4dogs]

I know you said you've already tried RS math, but did he like the games in the Games Book? My dd7 will gripe about practicing the math facts, but as soon as I pull out a game she's thrilled to play. I'm constantly amazed at how fun some of the games are! It's an easy way to drill the facts without her feeling like I'm drilling the facts.