Is MM too good to be true?

[mamakori]

We pulled our DS from PS Kinder two weeks ago and have been quickly throwing some sort of curriculum together for him. My original plan was to do Singapore 1A + Miquon Orange with him, but I had purchased Math Mammoth at HSBC and decided to start with that while waiting for our planned curriculum to arrive.

 

I am so impressed with MM so far! We're using light blue 1A. My DS is very mathy, so that helps, but he loves the presentation. I have two littles at home, so I love that he is able to work through it with minimal guidance. I love the worktext format, and the price was amazing. I love that with my one purchase, I have enough math material to potentially get all three of my kids through elementary math. I love that it's an Asian math format which my engineer DH prefers, and my brother (a former CPA turned economics PhD student) was impressed that 1A was basically teaching algebra in disguise.

 

So I am now thinking about ditching the Singapore and Miquon and just sticking with MM. But part of me is still waiting for the catch. If we use it as a stand-alone curriculum, will my DS really end up with a strong foundation in math? Is Math Mammoth really as good as it seems?

[abrightmom]

IMHO, yes!! All of these smart, mathy Moms who LOVE MM and call Maria Miller "brilliant" can't be wrong!!

 

I'm not a mathy Mom but I LOVE MM for the reasons you laid out above. It is challenging for my kids. They really have to think!! I didn't see it at first but as we approach the end of first grade MM I see how much my son has learned and how well he knows and understands addition and subtraction.

 

:grouphug: to Maria Miller and Math Mammoth!!!

[cschnee]

YES!

[Tam101]

It's wonderful and complete! I love it! It can be difficult to get through in one year, but we just go at my son's pace. He started with 1A in K and is just finishing 3B this fall and that was working through the summer. He wants to learn how to us Abacus so we are taking a break to do that. He'll start 4A in January.

[Free Indeed]

:iagree: I was a die hard Singapore user for the past several years, I own all the levels (textbooks and HIG) and was all set, then I found MM. It is so much easier to teach, and balance levels.

[Robin's Song]

We have only started with MM (1A), but I am SO IMPRESSED!!!! We started with Singapore and I had intended to switch to CLE...Instead we made the switch to MM and I have not one twinge of regret. Someone mentioned on another thread what I told my dh a few days ago...MM is laying a great foundation for Algebra in the first few weeks of first grade!

 

I avoided MM for a long time because I thought it sounded too good to be true, too :D

[sagira]

We're using MM too, and just finished 1A. We're off to 1B next week. I wish we had done it from the beginning. Ds is understanding much better. MCP Math may be fine for most, but ds needed to know why. MM really does this. Thank you, Maria Miller! I really enjoy the fact that the (free!) games are incorporated into the program so ds can practice without a problem. He's doing one page a day.

 

With my dd, I'm going to start 1A from the beginning! If she's ready, we can maybe start 1A in the latter half of Kindergarten. I do like how it makes ds think, and the variety of problems. Not the same old thing again. He can't rely on memorization, but has to figure out the problem. It also presents different ways to solve one type of problem.

[robsiew]

We've found the same to be true. I wish I had known about MM from the beginning. We made the switch this past summer. For the first time my kids actually have to **think** to do their math. I love it... they don't always! ;) It is our only program and I don't feel the need to use anything else.

[Hedgehogs4]

we switched from MUS to MM this year...accidentally! i thought i would just supplement with MM, and my ds likes it so much that we are using it exclusively. i have seen it challenge him in ways that are very encouraging. he is really being stretched, which is good, because he is very good at math, and MUS was just too easy for him.

[dansamy]

I started my eldest, a 6th grader, at the 3B book because there were concepts intorduced that he'd not had exposure to in 5 years at the public school. Now, he's moving (relatively, for him) quickly through 3B and I hope to get through 5A by year's end. However, we'll slow down if he gets bogged down on any concepts. We are only through 1 chapter in 2 weeks, so I foresee not getting into the 5th grade material by EOY, which is ok. This kid struggled with math in 4th and 5th grade.

 

My middle, a 4th grader, has started with the clock book from the Blue series and will then move into 2B. She did not pass clock concepts in her public school materials. She's my A/B kid in most things, but had difficulty with clocks and maps.

 

My youngest, a 3rd grader, has been bumped all the way to 1A. He piddlefarted around and played with the placement exam and refused to complete it properly. (He's my straight A kid. He knows this stuff!) He's through 2 chapters already, 2 weeks into our math. The review has been good for him. I expect to see him slow down when he reaches 2B, because it will start getting into new material for him.

 

They are all being challenged in different ways by MM and I am able to tailor it to each kid without any worries that they'll miss something important.

Edited September 22, 2010 by dansamy

[Robin's Song]

He piddlefarted around

 

:lol::lol::lol: I've never heard anyone who wasn't related to me use this word!

[dansamy]

:lol::lol::lol: I've never heard anyone who wasn't related to me use this word!

 

I also use lollygag and a couple others that escape me now that I'm trying to remember them!

[Robin's Song]

I also use lollygag and a couple others that escape me now that I'm trying to remember them!

 

:lol: Are you by any chance from backwoods Florida? Do you eat peanut butter on your pancakes?!

[dansamy]

:lol: Are you by any chance from backwoods Florida? Do you eat peanut butter on your pancakes?!

 

Nope. Even better. Backwoods Alabama and Mississippi.

 

Amelia (who still sings "em, eye, crooked letter, crooked letter, eye....." in her head when she spells Mississippi!)

[imhim]

What I am not getting about MM is ... what is so great about it?

 

I looked at second grade and what they would study - and all that I just finished covering in 1B with my second grader in SIngapore. Maybe not the cup with millimeters stuff. My dd does it mentally, too, things like 85 - 37. Without problem. At the begining of second grade. Easy to teach, too (for me, SIngapore is). It is true, I teach her, I use the TM a lot, but this is what I want to do, I don't expect her to learn math without me teaching her. So I am missing something here, cause I just do not understand why MM is so wonderful?

[Robin's Song]

What I am not getting about MM is ... what is so great about it?

 

I looked at second grade and what they would study - and all that I just finished covering in 1B with my second grader in SIngapore. Maybe not the cup with millimeters stuff. My dd does it mentally, too, things like 85 - 37. Without problem. At the begining of second grade. Easy to teach, too (for me, SIngapore is). It is true, I teach her, I use the TM a lot, but this is what I want to do, I don't expect her to learn math without me teaching her. So I am missing something here, cause I just do not understand why MM is so wonderful?

 

It is a great option for people who love SM but don't love the format (HIG, Textbook, workbook). It is also much less expensive and you can reuse it with subsequent children with no additional expense ;).

[bbrandonsmom]

:lol: Are you by any chance from backwoods Florida? Do you eat peanut butter on your pancakes?!

 

Hey-that's my boys favorite!

 

I'm still comparing MM and SM. We tried the MM samples, but the spaces were too small for ds. I read that you can make the pages larger though. I do like the combo package too, and being able to print as many copies as needed. It's more cost effective than SM I think. But, I think SM follows CA standards (not sure if that's the same as the National standards), and MM does not. She takes a slower approach-at least that's what I'm gathering from reading that people saying that MM a level up is the same as SM a level down from it. SM goes to 12th, MM stops at 6th.

[monalisa]

What I am not getting about MM is ... what is so great about it?

 

I looked at second grade and what they would study - and all that I just finished covering in 1B with my second grader in SIngapore. Maybe not the cup with millimeters stuff. My dd does it mentally, too, things like 85 - 37. Without problem. At the begining of second grade. Easy to teach, too (for me, SIngapore is). It is true, I teach her, I use the TM a lot, but this is what I want to do, I don't expect her to learn math without me teaching her. So I am missing something here, cause I just do not understand why MM is so wonderful?

 

I have struggled to feel the love, though I have wanted to since it gets so many raves. I own Light Blue Grade 2, and previously had used some of Sing 1A & 1B stds which was much easier for me to use. The formatting of MM is really a hindrance for me, as the teacher, and the jam packed pages are in issue for dd (and I don't want the hassle of reformatting). It is a purchase I actually now regret (esp. since I bought the ebook which I can do nothing with). For me, not having an explicit teacher guide is a downside (and I'm not math phobic -- I've gone through diff. eq.)

[Corraleno]

But, I think SM follows CA standards (not sure if that's the same as the National standards), and MM does not. She takes a slower approach-at least that's what I'm gathering from reading that people saying that MM a level up is the same as SM a level down from it.

The Singapore Standards edition follows the CA standards because it was written specifically for CA. The Singapore US edition doesn't follow CA standards. Maria Miller purposely didn't follow any one state's standards, because they're all different and they are generally written with political interests in mind rather than focusing on what's most developmentally appropriate. She's actually quite critical of the "mile wide, inch deep" approach that characterizes many US math curricula. MM is not "behind" the Singapore US edition, and is ahead of many other math programs, although that's not always apparent just from looking at the table of contents. Often, what makes it advanced is the conceptual depth, rather than the number of topics covered per grade level. This tends to be more apparent beginning in 4A, as the first 3 levels focus more on really solidifying the basic operations (in the sense of really understanding them conceptually, not just memorizing facts & algorithms) before moving into more abstract concepts. Unless a parent lives in CA and needs to do annual testing, I'm not sure why CA state standards would be relevant. The fact that CA introduces some concepts at an earlier age than many other states isn't necessarily better, IMO.

 

SM goes to 12th, MM stops at 6th.

Singapore Primary Mathematics stops at 6B just as MM does. There are four different programs from Singapore for grades 7-11 (New Elementary Mathematics, Discovering Mathematics, New Syllabus Mathematics, and New Mathematics Counts) but they are not the same format as the Primary books and they all have different authors. It's not like MUS or TT, for example, where you have one math program with the same authors & format that covers elementary through high school. You still need to choose a different program after completing Primary Mathematics 6B, even if you choose another program from the same country. The upper level math programs from Singapore follow a different scope & sequence from the typical US high school sequence, which may be a concern for some. Maria Miller recommends a standard US scope & sequence for HS, and she particularly recommends the Foerster texts.

 

Jackie

[truebluexf]

We actually tried MM, having come from RS (which I loved but wanted a format change for DS now that I'm teaching DD1 as well). It didn't work out for us. Too much on a page, he didn't understand what he needed to do, etc. I got Singapore this week and he is loving it. :) So, like many things, it's all going to depend on your child.

[lamamaloca]

I think there are downsides to this program, but so far we love it. There are a lot of problems on each page, especially in the first grade book, and it can seem cluttered and busy. That would be the biggest negative, IMO. For my kids, it isn't something they can do on their own, they definitely need me to read the instructions, explain what is going on, etc., but we are new to the series this year so maybe they will get more used to it. I am happy with the amount of critical thinking required, especially compared to all the rote learning in MUS. I have heard great things about Singapore and really considered it, but so far MM is working well for us and I think we'll stick with it.

[Mom25girls]

We're using 4 levels here and I'm loving it!!! My kids call it "Thinking Math" (as opposed to Saxon Math). LOL! It makes me chuckle. We're using both math programs (I seem to have commitment issues) but as the weeks progress (we're on week 8), my respect for the program is only growing.

Another MM fan here!!!

[PenKase]

The Singapore Standards edition follows the CA standards because it was written specifically for CA. The Singapore US edition doesn't follow CA standards. Maria Miller purposely didn't follow any one state's standards, because they're all different and they are generally written with political interests in mind rather than focusing on what's most developmentally appropriate. She's actually quite critical of the "mile wide, inch deep" approach that characterizes many US math curricula. MM is not "behind" the Singapore US edition, and is ahead of many other math programs, although that's not always apparent just from looking at the table of contents. Often, what makes it advanced is the conceptual depth, rather than the number of topics covered per grade level. This tends to be more apparent beginning in 4A, as the first 3 levels focus more on really solidifying the basic operations (in the sense of really understanding them conceptually, not just memorizing facts & algorithms) before moving into more abstract concepts. Unless a parent lives in CA and needs to do annual testing, I'm not sure why CA state standards would be relevant. The fact that CA introduces some concepts at an earlier age than many other states isn't necessarily better, IMO.

 

:iagree:, completely.

 

 

One of the many things I love about MM is that you, as the teacher, knows exactly what your student understands and/or doesn't. The child cannot "fake" their way through this program. It is perfect for my dd6 who insists on doing things independently. This is not to suggest, however, that I don't have a direct hand on teaching math.....just that it's more student driven than teacher driven but still offering plenty opportunity to go through new math concepts with the child. Dd really, really, did not care for RightStart, at all. She loves, loves, MM. Also, depending on the amount of work on the pages(s) she will do some of the problems orally (as she did today when working on the 1B Chapter on Clocks, which is mainly review for her) or her ultimate favorite, the white board. Boy, the many, many things I can get her to do on the much beloved white board. I agree, MM is not for everyone (nothing is) but I am ecstatic to have found it!!

[Capt_Uhura]

Nope. Even better. Backwoods Alabama and Mississippi.

 

Amelia (who still sings "em, eye, crooked letter, crooked letter, eye....." in her head when she spells Mississippi!)

 

humpback humpback eye!!!!

 

I use lollygag all. the. time. :lol:

[SpiritCatcher]

I didn't see a TM in MM, did I miss it? If there is no TM can the mathematically challenged teach this program?

[Corraleno]

I didn't see a TM in MM, did I miss it? If there is no TM can the mathematically challenged teach this program?

There's no TM — all of the teaching and conceptual explanations are written to the student and included on the workpages. IMO, the explanations in MM are clearer and more explicit than the explanations in the Singapore HIG. If you read the explanations for each lesson, either before or along with your child, you shouldn't have any trouble understanding it, because it's actually written at the child's level. Maria breaks the concepts down into small increments and explains them step by step, one conceptual step per lesson, with each lesson building on the previous one, and she explains and illustrates the concepts in multiple ways, so the student can "see" it from different angles. I think the greatest strength of MM is that it makes a rigorous, conceptual math education accessible to non-mathy kids — and non-mathy parents.

 

If a parent is struggling with the explanations in MM, I would recommend reading Liping Ma's Knowing & Teaching Elementary Mathematics* as well as reading ahead in the MM lessons. Often just reading a few lessons ahead will give you a better idea of where the lessons are going and what concepts she's building.

 

*Check your library for this if you don't want to buy it, or you can often find used copies of the previous edition quite cheap.

 

Jackie

[Forget-Me-Not]

LOVE LOVE LOVING MM here! We're using 1A and 2A at the moment. We switched from Singapore and Saxon and we're all so much happier. My only teeny complaint is that she doesn't provide enough room sometimes for littles to write answers, but I've found that just handing my son a sheet of paper to write answers on solved the problem.

 

I didn't see a TM in MM, did I miss it? If there is no TM can the mathematically challenged teach this program?

 

 

There is no TM, but there are a few pages of parent instruction at the beginning of each level and there are clear, concise instructions on each page for the student. Now, obviously at 1A and 2A, we're well within territory that I know thoroughly and feel comfortable teaching, but I've found this much easier to teach than SM.

 

ETA: Oh, and I second Liping Ma's book. I've only read the addition/subtraction chapter so far, but it's really helped give me a better idea of how to teach some of the concepts. Knowing how to do the math is different from knowing how to teach it, and that's where it really helped me. It's hard to explain, but it sort of helped me label some of my own thought processes behind problem solving.

Edited September 23, 2010 by LemonPie

[Veritaserum]

Another fan of MM. :) I'm using it with my 1st-grader (1A) and my very non-mathy 5th-grader (4B). My 3rd-grader is using CLE math because she loves it and does better with spiral.

[i.love.lucy]

I've got another non-mathy 5th grader and we are loving it. We used CLE, which I also sang the praises of in the beginning. But that was a workbook I handed dd and she filled in the blanks, getting good scores, but faking it. I discovered this when I attempted another programs placement test and she bombed it. So we backed up some and are now cruising through 4A. It's going really well. I can't comment to the page busy-ness of the younger levels, but at this level she is doing most computing mentally, so she doesn't need a lot of space and the amount provided seems just right. I'm really glad I found it and it's built our confidence in math a lot. I can't say I think I will wind up with a genius math whiz, but a kid who feels pretty confident with math and reaches the upper levels with skill is good with us.

[cjbeach]

We're only a week into MM (3a and 4a here) but so far I'm seeing lightbulbs going on. I can definitely see a change in my dd, who is not a huge math fan.

[julikins]

Resurrecting this thread, if you don't mind.

My question is for parents of older students who have gone through MM all the way (or has the program not been around that long?). Do you find the students able to deal with higher level math well, ie pre-algebra, algebra and geometry. I'm not mathy at all, in fact barely passed Algebra 2, but I want my kids to be successful and the have the opportunities I didn't have. So will this give that basis for upper level math?

[Corraleno]

Resurrecting this thread, if you don't mind.

My question is for parents of older students who have gone through MM all the way (or has the program not been around that long?). Do you find the students able to deal with higher level math well, ie pre-algebra, algebra and geometry. I'm not mathy at all, in fact barely passed Algebra 2, but I want my kids to be successful and the have the opportunities I didn't have. So will this give that basis for upper level math?

My DS has done MM4a-6a (we are impatiently waiting for 6b!). After 5b, he tested into TT Prealgebra, which we started while waiting for 6a to be released. At first he liked that TT Prealgebra was way easier than MM5 and was coasting through it, but eventually he got bored and felt like it was just busywork, so we dropped it. Then 6a came out and he did that. Then, while waiting for 6b, he did Life of Fred Prealgebra & Biology. I ordered MUS Prealgebra and then sent it back because DS had already covered almost all of it in MM. I exchanged it for MUS Algebra, and I think quite a bit of that will be review once he's finished with 6b. He's currently doing some of Kinetic Books Prealgebra, which is a good program but DS doesn't really like the computer interface and I don't feel the conceptual explanations are as good as MM. Once he finishes 6b (assuming it's released soon!), he'll either skim through MUS Algebra followed by Foerster's or go straight into Foerster's.

 

BTW, DS is not a mathy kid; he was in remedial math in PS. He's headed for a career in science, though, so I wanted him to have a really strong foundation in math, and I feel confident that MM is providing that. Math is still his least favorite subject, but he gets it, which is something of a miracle considering where he was when he left PS.

 

Jackie