Shame on churches who "bribe" kids to bring friends.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I think it is wrong to ask children to bring other children to church to be "saved". Especially when said children may belong to a different church or another religion.

As an adult, it is hard to realize that your friend doesn't think you are Christian or that they believe you are going to hell if you don't change and believe what they do...but as a kid...what do you tell a child? How do you explain this to a child?

At least we know the truth about the intentions from reading this board.

[Susan in TN]

I remember this from my own vacation Bible school days. It was rough when you had an older sister who had friends and you didn't ;).

 

But I don't think it holds a candle to the church that advertised computer and new car give-aways for attending Easter services last April. I mean, talk about leading people into idolatry.

[....]

I remember this from my own vacation Bible school days. It was rough when you had an older sister who had friends and you didn't ;).

 

But I don't think it holds a candle to the church that advertised computer and new car give-aways for attending Easter services last April. I mean, talk about leading people into idolatry.

 

Wow. I was REALLY hoping to avoid this thread, but that is just jaw-dropping. We go to a really small, quiet Lutheran church and our pastor has actually been preaching about this exact same subject for a while now. I couldn't imagine if our congregation had some kind of "prize give-away" for taking Communion.

 

I'm actually afraid that people from other religious backgrounds see these churches and think this is normal for Christianity (when it's not).

 

On a personal note, we also had a strange "bring a friend experience" last week from our neighbors (who belong to another denomination). They wanted to bring our kids to their VBS to be "saved". :confused: My kids were very confused by what that meant and I had to sit down and explain that denomination's terminology to them. They came home later that night from VBS with a big bag of toys. :glare:

 

I also just finished the new biography on Dietrich Bonhoeffer (an incredible book BTW) and he has a famous quote from Gandhi..."I love your Jesus Christ, but I do not like your Christians." Hmmmm... :001_unsure:

[BearWallowSchool]

:iagree: with everyone else. As soon as Christ isn't enough...you aren't really a church.

[blessed2fosteradopt]

WOW, I am flabbergasted. My son attended two years of Awana at our church and he was NEVER offered incentives to bring others to class. In fact, I can't even ever recall that he was asked to invite others period. This is just disgraceful. Just, wow! :001_huh:

[Lizzie in Ma]

And the issue of which you speak was always a nightmare. Made me so angry, I always waived the requirement, especially for all the home-schooled kids.

[LinRTX]

Wow. I can't believe this about the AWANA program where you are. This is too much pressure and stress and is not how the program should be run. The emphasis is/should be on memorizing God's word. Everything else in the program is supposed to be fun and optional.

 

The attendance standards are not according to AWANA rules. I actually give the attendance awards to one little boy who only comes half the time. He is from a divorced family and can only be there when he is with his dad. So to me if he is there everytime he is with his dad, he has fulfilled the requirements.

 

Linda

[ezrabean2005]

:rant:

 

Our (recently former) church has a special meeting session coming up. The kids and teens can win a bike or an IPAD for bringing the most friends.

 

This was only four months after the adults were asked to sign a "commitment card" that promised that we would invite / bring others into committed membership at the church (which is MUCH different than just inviting someone because they may want to go).

 

Yuck. Too pyramid scheme for my tastes. I didn't know Jesus needed sales reps. And what's more, it's not about "souls". It's about cash flow. The church wants more money and many members have been laid off. So instead of harping on the congregants to give more (since a "child of God" should not be affected by a global recession, right?), they say to bring a friend so we can soak them. This is as the pastor collects over a million dollars a year in salary and has a plane (and I truly wish this was an exaggeration, but it is not if you check the church's financial reports).

 

Thus ends our family's adventures into organized religion. Done. 28 years too late. :cheers2:

[Impish]

Ok, I'm way different.

 

First off, though, I agree that $100 for friends is ick, as is 'bring a friend or don't get your book'.

 

That being said, Diva was invited on a 'bring a friend night'. And she attended pretty much every night after. The 'bring a friend' was a wonderful thing for us, as we, although being Christians, have yet to find a church. Diva loved AWANAs, and its not an experience she'd have had otherwise, if it hadn't been for a friend bringing her along.

 

I've no idea if her friend earned anything for her presence, and honestly, it doesn't matter to us.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Ok, I'm way different.

 

First off, though, I agree that $100 for friends is ick, as is 'bring a friend or don't get your book'.

 

That being said, Diva was invited on a 'bring a friend night'. And she attended pretty much every night after. The 'bring a friend' was a wonderful thing for us, as we, although being Christians, have yet to find a church. Diva loved AWANAs, and its not an experience she'd have had otherwise, if it hadn't been for a friend bringing her along.

 

I've no idea if her friend earned anything for her presence, and honestly, it doesn't matter to us.

 

 

Imagine, though, how your daughter would have felt if she couldn't go and "friend" sulked and pouted and stated something like, "but now I won't get the prize" thereby making daughter feel like she was just a pawn.

[Impish]

I did say that I thought the 'reward' for camp, etc was inappropriate. I was saying that I am glad for the 'invite a friend' b/c without it, Diva wouldn't have experienced AWANAs.

[astrid]

 

Today, my boys were invited by a friend to go to Bible Camp with him for 5 days this summer. If this boy can bring three friends, he will get $100. Every former camper has been promised this if they bring three friends. And this boy was excited about getting that money.

 

Bounty-Hunting For Jesus. :001_huh::glare:

 

astrid

[UnsinkableKristen]

Bounty-Hunting For Jesus. :001_huh::glare:

 

astrid

 

:lol:

[MamaSheep]

Our (recently former) church has a special meeting session coming up. The kids and teens can win a bike or an IPAD for bringing the most friends.

 

This was only four months after the adults were asked to sign a "commitment card" that promised that we would invite / bring others into committed membership at the church (which is MUCH different than just inviting someone because they may want to go).

 

Yuck. Too pyramid scheme for my tastes. I didn't know Jesus needed sales reps. And what's more, it's not about "souls". It's about cash flow. The church wants more money and many members have been laid off. So instead of harping on the congregants to give more (since a "child of God" should not be affected by a global recession, right?), they say to bring a friend so we can soak them. This is as the pastor collects over a million dollars a year in salary and has a plane (and I truly wish this was an exaggeration, but it is not if you check the church's financial reports).

 

Thus ends our family's adventures into organized religion. Done. 28 years too late. :cheers2:

 

Ouch! :grouphug: I'm sorry to hear that has been your experience, and I understand your reaction. That's so wrong! Please know that all organized religion is not like that, though.

 

(Actually, your comments reminded me of something a friend (who much later became my dh) said many a long year ago. He said he was a Christian, but done with organized religion because he'd come to the conclusion that all denominations were just franchises in the business of selling God, and he didn't believe God was a commercial commodity. I thought it was a fairly clever observation. Thanks for the memory. :) )

 

Bounty-Hunting For Jesus. :001_huh::glare:

 

astrid

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[Daisy]

That is disgusting and I would refuse to participate.

 

What happens when we bride people to come to church with programs, give-aways, candy, money, etc? I'm reminded of Jesus' response after the feeding of the 5,000...

 

Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves. John 6:26

 

And Jesus goes on to preach the hard truth to them and how do they respond?

After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him. John 6:66

 

The simple fact of the matter is that "bounty-hunting for Jesus," as it was so aptly put, is not only offensive but it also doesn't WORK. Oh, it may fill the pews as long as the loaves are coming, but in the long run it doesn't change lives.

[MamaSheep]

I think so many of these stories are so sad and really showing some inappropriate actions...

 

There definitely have been some sad stories in here. I think it's partly due to the nature of the topic in this thread. I would be willing to bet there are some happy stories out there too. I'll share one of mine.

 

When I was young we lived waaaay out in the boonies. It was a National Park Service employee housing area, so we were in a little cluster of homes that housed...oh, maybe 300 or so people. There was a small town about 5 miles down the road with another 500 or so, and other than that it was at least an hour or two to drive to anything resembling civilization. The family catty-corner across the street from us were nice mission-minded Christian people and sponsored a week-long Bible day camp in their back yard every summer. They had some people from some kind of missions association come in and do stories and songs and crafts and whatnot over there in their back yard. Their daughter was my friend and invited me every summer until they moved away when I was...oh 10 or 11 or so, I forget. It was a good experience, and we had fun together. I enjoyed the crafts. I remember thinking that it was really weird to say a poem before lunch and call it a prayer (in our faith we don't really do memorized rote prayers much so it was foreign to me), and I remember thinking it was strange that they seemed to assume we'd all be completely unfamiliar with very basic Bible stories--like Noah, Daniel in the Lion's Den, and Jesus walking on the water--that I had been familiar with pretty much since I could remember. (As far as I knew almost all the neighborhood kids went to one of the several churches in the town down the road on a fairly regular basis.) And I wished they'd go into a little more depth than they did, or at least draw some moral from the stories or show how the underlying principles still apply today, rather than just telling the basic skeleton form of the story and leaving it at that. But I learned some new songs and did some fun crafts, and it was good, I think, for my friend and I to know that we shared a love of the Bible and a belief in Jesus as our Savior even though our churches disagreed about some things.

 

And as far as I know she didn't get any incentive or reward for bringing me, but I was pretty young and naieve and don't know whether I'd even have noticed, or whether it would have bothered me enough to remember if she had. I probably would just have been happy to help her out.

 

Anyway, I think some good can definitely come out of these kinds of programs when they're operated in a good spirit and a responsible manner.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

That is so wrong! I don't think our church's AWANA program does that. We don't go because it never felt right to me to, in essence, bribe my children to learn God's Word.

[Pretty in Pink]

Impish, I'm really glad that your daughter enjoys AWANA. My boys do too, though I have mixed feelings about them returning in the fall. Luckily my 6yo and 4yo were having too much fun to put two and two together and realize that their friend was being rewarded in front of the class and at the award ceremony for their presence, and my oldest was in a different class altogether so I don't think he caught on.

[fhjmom]

There definitely have been some sad stories in here. I think it's partly due to the nature of the topic in this thread. I would be willing to bet there are some happy stories out there too. I'll share one of mine.

 

When I was young we lived waaaay out in the boonies. It was a National Park Service employee housing area, so we were in a little cluster of homes that housed...oh, maybe 300 or so people. There was a small town about 5 miles down the road with another 500 or so, and other than that it was at least an hour or two to drive to anything resembling civilization. The family catty-corner across the street from us were nice mission-minded Christian people and sponsored a week-long Bible day camp in their back yard every summer. They had some people from some kind of missions association come in and do stories and songs and crafts and whatnot over there in their back yard. Their daughter was my friend and invited me every summer until they moved away when I was...oh 10 or 11 or so, I forget. It was a good experience, and we had fun together. I enjoyed the crafts. I remember thinking that it was really weird to say a poem before lunch and call it a prayer (in our faith we don't really do memorized rote prayers much so it was foreign to me), and I remember thinking it was strange that they seemed to assume we'd all be completely unfamiliar with very basic Bible stories--like Noah, Daniel in the Lion's Den, and Jesus walking on the water--that I had been familiar with pretty much since I could remember. (As far as I knew almost all the neighborhood kids went to one of the several churches in the town down the road on a fairly regular basis.) And I wished they'd go into a little more depth than they did, or at least draw some moral from the stories or show how the underlying principles still apply today, rather than just telling the basic skeleton form of the story and leaving it at that. But I learned some new songs and did some fun crafts, and it was good, I think, for my friend and I to know that we shared a love of the Bible and a belief in Jesus as our Savior even though our churches disagreed about some things.

 

And as far as I know she didn't get any incentive or reward for bringing me, but I was pretty young and naieve and don't know whether I'd even have noticed, or whether it would have bothered me enough to remember if she had. I probably would just have been happy to help her out.

 

Anyway, I think some good can definitely come out of these kinds of programs when they're operated in a good spirit and a responsible manner.

 

Amy, that's agreat story. Thank you for sharing it. I remember things being very similar when I was a child. We were encouraged to bring friends to VBS and other activities but there were no prizes, big incentives, and recognition for our other activities certainly wouldn't be withheld if we didn't. I remember inviting friends because I had fun and wanted to share my church activities with my friends. I don't know know that it was ever promoted as a guerrilla evangelism tactic so I never would have focus on whether my firend was 'unsaved'. I just wanted them to come with me because I liked them. :)

 

I wish it was still that way.

[....]

:rant:

 

Our (recently former) church has a special meeting session coming up. The kids and teens can win a bike or an IPAD for bringing the most friends.

 

This was only four months after the adults were asked to sign a "commitment card" that promised that we would invite / bring others into committed membership at the church (which is MUCH different than just inviting someone because they may want to go).

 

Yuck. Too pyramid scheme for my tastes. I didn't know Jesus needed sales reps. And what's more, it's not about "souls". It's about cash flow. The church wants more money and many members have been laid off. So instead of harping on the congregants to give more (since a "child of God" should not be affected by a global recession, right?), they say to bring a friend so we can soak them. This is as the pastor collects over a million dollars a year in salary and has a plane (and I truly wish this was an exaggeration, but it is not if you check the church's financial reports).

 

Thus ends our family's adventures into organized religion. Done. 28 years too late. :cheers2:

 

 

Wow. That is absolutely wrong. The pastor had a plane?? :confused:

 

I doubt this helps...but our old pastor lived IN the church :tongue_smilie:, I'm pretty sure he was broke :001_huh: and he drove an old sedan. :lol: He was the coolest guy. Also, about ten years ago, (when I was extremely broke) I put change in the offering plate. One of the church elders took the change back out, handed it to me and told me to keep it. He smiled and said that he remembered "those days". :D

 

That's the way it should be...not pastors with their own jets. What the heck?? :001_huh:

[Impish]

Impish, I'm really glad that your daughter enjoys AWANA. My boys do too, though I have mixed feelings about them returning in the fall. Luckily my 6yo and 4yo were having too much fun to put two and two together and realize that their friend was being rewarded in front of the class and at the award ceremony for their presence, and my oldest was in a different class altogether so I don't think he caught on.

Next year, she moves up a level, so won't be in the same class as her friend...dunno what'll happen then.

 

Maybe we'll find a church with the program...who knows? :lol:

[Nakia]

This thread makes me so sad. Our church just started AWANA this past January. I know my 7 year old had a requirement in her book to bring a friend for a reward, but the teachers/director just skipped that part. Some kids have brought a friend; some haven't. It doesn't seem to be a big deal. I taught in the T&T age group this past semester (3-5th grade), and most kids didn't ever bring a friend. It wasn't even mentioned except to ask at the beginning of class if anyone brought a friend so we could welcome them. Our director really has a heart for bringing kids to Jesus, but if our AWANA ever becomes what some of you have described here, we will no longer be participating at all. What a mess.

[ezrabean2005]

Wow. That is absolutely wrong. The pastor had a plane?? :confused:

 

I doubt this helps...but our old pastor lived IN the church :tongue_smilie:, I'm pretty sure he was broke :001_huh: and he drove an old sedan. :lol: He was the coolest guy. Also, about ten years ago, (when I was extremely broke) I put change in the offering plate. One of the church elders took the change back out, handed it to me and told me to keep it. He smiled and said that he remembered "those days". :D

 

That's the way it should be...not pastors with their own jets. What the heck?? :001_huh:

 

Not had a plane. HAS a plane. And has a board of directors of other megachurches where at least one of the other pastors has a plane and many if not all are millionaires. And they all say it's because God has blessed them - walk with God like "us" and you'll have all this too....:glare:

 

Really? No thanks, buh bye.

[TravelingChris]

AS my board name implies, we are transients (because of the military). In all the years I have had kids attending VBS or working VBS, and thinking back that must be eleven different churches at least, none of them had any monetary or prize incentive to bring a friend. Neither did any of the Sunday Schools they attended. Which was as it should be since for my kids, that would amount to simply raiding each other's churches for that extra kid. That is, my kids know other kids who go to either the same or another church. HOw would it be right for us to invite the kids who go to to Baptist Church to attend our Methodist Church or the kids from Chapel A to attend Chapel B?

[ezrabean2005]

AS my board name implies, we are transients (because of the military). In all the years I have had kids attending VBS or working VBS, and thinking back that must be eleven different churches at least, none of them had any monetary or prize incentive to bring a friend. Neither did any of the Sunday Schools they attended. Which was as it should be since for my kids, that would amount to simply raiding each other's churches for that extra kid. That is, my kids know other kids who go to either the same or another church. HOw would it be right for us to invite the kids who go to to Baptist Church to attend our Methodist Church or the kids from Chapel A to attend Chapel B?

 

Here's an idea. We get a community together of kids and then they go from camp to camp, AWANA's, VBS, or meeting to meeting just collecting the prize for that week. :lol:

[MamaSheep]

...

 

HOw would it be right for us to invite the kids who go to to Baptist Church to attend our Methodist Church or the kids from Chapel A to attend Chapel B?

 

I think I may be reading what you wrote all wrong, and I don't want to, so maybe could you clarify this a little, just so I know I actually "get" what you are saying?

 

Are you saying you believe it is actually "wrong" for a child of one denomination to ever invite his friend of another denomination to visit his church with him--say, just to let him see what another denomination's worship services are like?

 

Or...maybe you're saying you just think it's wrong for kids to invite their friends to church with them unless they think that friend will actually want to start attending that church regularly, but should not invite friends who already have a church to attend?

 

Sorry, I'm a little confused about your point. Help me out? I don't want to be attributing ideas to you that have nothing to do with what you actually meant. :001_huh:

[....]

Here's an idea. We get a community together of kids and then they go from camp to camp, AWANA's, VBS, or meeting to meeting just collecting the prize for that week. :lol:

 

:rofl: That's so funny. What we could accomplish with a large group of us (scary music playing)...we could divide up the booty...all those little Frisbees, notepads and jump ropes...:smilielol5:

[KristenS]

Now, on the other hand, if we could find some good bribe to get those on our Administrative Council at our church (basically, the heads of the major committees) to actually show UP at the meetings to cast votes and help decide things ... that'd be great! LOL. Or maybe bribes for those who bring in the most potential volunteers .... now, there's a worthy cause! :D

 

I do think it would be a hoot if everyone involved in a situation like that banded together and rotated from group to group. Obviously. Loudly. With clear planning. It just might get the point across...

 

I've never seen an Awanas around here run that way, and I know my sister has helped lead Awanas and never mentioned such a thing (if so, I am sure my kids would have been first on their invite list, as they always loved doing things with their cousins when they lived nearby, and would've been happy to help earn a prize). So it must be something most sensible churches find an alternative for. (We don't have Awanas at our church, but some of our kids attend at another church and have really learned a lot from it. It can be a good program.)

[TravelingChris]

Oh I didn't phrase it right. I am perfectly fine with a Methodist attending a Baptist VBS or vice versa. We have done this type of thing too. What I was referring to was the practice of trying to find unchurched or nonbelieving friends and round them up to go to your church and decide that denomination X isn't worthy so that is why you invite the X denomination kids with a purpose to 'convert' them when they are already Christians. I am not a fan of trying to convert fellow Christians just because our views of the topic of the day are different (creation, methods of baptism, use of musical instruments, whatever). I have seen this done and have heard this from the mouth of little kids. You are not a Christian because ___________ and the blank is not an essential element of the CHristian faith but some minor issue. In my view, if you can agree with the Apostle's Creed, you don't need conversion.

[TravelingChris]

Inviting a friend to visit your church for some reason other than trying to convert them (if they are believers) is just fine. My dd went with her friend to an Anglican church since she had an overnight Saturday night. Her parents know that we are believers and she wasn't getting any prizes for snaring my daughter. They are just friends and sometime she may come with us to our church, again not with a conversion idea in mind.

[....]

What I was referring to was the practice of trying to find unchurched or nonbelieving friends and round them up to go to your church and decide that denomination X isn't worthy so that is why you invite the X denomination kids with a purpose to 'convert' them when they are already Christians. I am not a fan of trying to convert fellow Christians just because our views of the topic of the day are different (creation, methods of baptism, use of musical instruments, whatever). I have seen this done and have heard this from the mouth of little kids. You are not a Christian because ___________ and the blank is not an essential element of the CHristian faith but some minor issue. In my view, if you can agree with the Apostle's Creed, you don't need conversion.

 

Ummm...we actually had this happen to us - twice (gasp). Oh well, no hard feelings. :lol: I think this is common and I bet there's a term for this in the theology world.

[Aubrey]

Oh I didn't phrase it right. I am perfectly fine with a Methodist attending a Baptist VBS or vice versa. We have done this type of thing too. What I was referring to was the practice of trying to find unchurched or nonbelieving friends and round them up to go to your church and decide that denomination X isn't worthy so that is why you invite the X denomination kids with a purpose to 'convert' them when they are already Christians. I am not a fan of trying to convert fellow Christians just because our views of the topic of the day are different (creation, methods of baptism, use of musical instruments, whatever). I have seen this done and have heard this from the mouth of little kids. You are not a Christian because ___________ and the blank is not an essential element of the CHristian faith but some minor issue. In my view, if you can agree with the Apostle's Creed, you don't need conversion.

 

Hmmm...in that case...I think you should come to church with me on Sunday.

 

*ducking*

 

:lol:

[MamaSheep]

Oh I didn't phrase it right. I am perfectly fine with a Methodist attending a Baptist VBS or vice versa. We have done this type of thing too. What I was referring to was the practice of trying to find unchurched or nonbelieving friends and round them up to go to your church and decide that denomination X isn't worthy so that is why you invite the X denomination kids with a purpose to 'convert' them when they are already Christians. I am not a fan of trying to convert fellow Christians just because our views of the topic of the day are different (creation, methods of baptism, use of musical instruments, whatever). I have seen this done and have heard this from the mouth of little kids. You are not a Christian because ___________ and the blank is not an essential element of the CHristian faith but some minor issue. In my view, if you can agree with the Apostle's Creed, you don't need conversion.

 

Yeah, I get that a lot...lol.

 

Thank you so much for explaining, I just KNEWI must be misunderstanding. I can be a little dense sometimes, and it can be even harder to understand when you can't see someone's body language and facial expressions. I totally get what you're saying now.

 

I think visiting around and sharing beliefs with each other can be quite a useful exercise. It has helped me clarify my own beliefs by giving me the opportunity to compare and contrast with others', and it has given me a greater appreciation for other people and a better understanding of why they see things the way they do, and therefore why they say some of the things to me that they do. That doesn't mean I always LIKE what they say, but it's easier to be patient with them if I know where they're coming from. If that makes sense.

 

Anyway, thanks again for explaining. I feel much less confused now. :)