If circumnavigating the globe is a selfish waste of time, what isn't?

[msjones]

That jumbo "sailor-girl" thread has me thinking. Some folks consider activities such as sailing around the world and climbing Mt. Everest to be selfish and wastes of time.

 

I think I can see both sides of that, but am left wondering, if you see these sorts of things as egotistical and selfish, what do you consider worthwhile?

 

How about art? Dance? Any kind of serious athletic pursuit? Marathon running? Knitting? Writing poetry? Theatre?

[Mrs Mungo]

I agree with you.

 

Pushing our boundaries, testing ourselves those are things humans have *always* done. I don't understand how some process "these things are okay, but these things aren't."

[elegantlion]

Space, why go to space there's nothing there? :tongue_smilie: I'm kidding I think space travel is wonderful. But honestly you could apply that mindset to the space program. We've spent xx amount of dollars over the last fifty some years of this country to go places where no one lives, involves extreme risk, has cost people their lives, and for what purpose? As some would say, because its there.

 

Some people will see adventure as inspirational and worthy and some won't. Some people will risk life and limb for those adventures. The need to explore and stretch your limits is just as much an inner journey as it is a physical one.

 

I have a friend who recently spent 60 days hitchhiking around the country with no set agenda. He saw the risks, planned, executed his plan, ignoring the people that didn't understand. He had a wonderful external journey and very much dealt with some internal issues. He could have never done that without the physical adventure.

 

I think we all find ways to push ourselves. Some of us are comfortable doing that within the comforts of our home, some of us require more.

[swimmermom3]

I agree with you.

 

Pushing our boundaries, testing ourselves those are things humans have *always* done. I don't understand how some process "these things are okay, but these things aren't."

 

My 15 yo son has determined that he will never be suited for a desk job. He loves Civil Air Patrol and has had the opportunity for glider rides, SARS training, working the radios and helping out on the runways learning to guide the search and rescue plane in. The boy is positively on fire when he comes back. His goal is to be a Coast Guard helicopter pilot. I'd like to tell you that's his goal because he wants to help out mankind, but right now, it's more about flying, speed, and walking the edge. It's how he is wired. We are looking at what it takes to get his license. I will most likely need to be ill in the bushes after we sign the paperwork and will spend many hours asking myself what kind of parent I am.

[Mejane]

What if someone had told Van Gogh his painting was not worthwhile? What if someone had told Robert Ballard his urge to explore the depths of the ocean was silly? What if someone had told Shakespeare he shouldn't waste his time writing? No ballet? No mountain summits? No baseball? ;) I think we would all be the poorer for the lack of these things.

 

No one has the right to quash another person's dream.

[Daisy]

Personally, I don't know why Jackie Robinson bothered pursuing baseball. I hate sports. Surely that was a colossal waste of of his time. He must have been doing it out of purely selfish reasons (eyes rolling).

 

Who are we to decide what is and what isn't worthwhile?

 

Each of us has a very special purpose in this life and we should pursue that with everything in us. Glorifying God THROUGH that passion whether it is sailing around the world, playing ball, or being a plumber.

[BikeBookBread]

I have no brain power to add to the conversation, but great thread. I agree with everyone here.

 

Oh I thought of someone else -- Mozart. He was too young to ever consider an iffy career choice such as music.

[Perry]

Who are we to decide what is and what isn't worthwhile?

 

But is there *nothing* that you don't think is worthwhile? I'm not sure where I draw the line, but I do have a line, somewhere. I am trying to teach my kids that just because they want to do something isn't necessarily a good enough reason to do it.

 

Trying to figure out what is worthwhile and what isn't is tough for me. But I sure don't believe that a desire to do a thing is always sufficient reason to do it.

[LibraryLover]

I agree with you.

 

Pushing our boundaries, testing ourselves those are things humans have *always* done. I don't understand how some process "these things are okay, but these things aren't."

 

It's what (many) humans do. :iagree: Some people are couch -potatoes, some people ride bikes, some people are knitters, some enjoy folding towels the Martha Stewart way, and some people want to travel the world solo.

Edited June 14, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Daisy]

But is there *nothing* that you don't think is worthwhile? I'm not sure where I draw the line, but I do have a line, somewhere. I am trying to teach my kids that just because they want to do something isn't necessarily a good enough reason to do it.

 

Trying to figure out what is worthwhile and what isn't is tough for me. But I sure don't believe that a desire to do a thing is always sufficient reason to do it.

 

I never said I don't draw a line. I'm saying it isn't for me to decide for you what is and what is not worth pursuing.

 

I'm a christian, so how I determine whether something is worthwhile or not is going to be based on the standard of Scripture. Outside of the clear dictates of Scripture, there is a whole lot of gray area. If my child wants to pursue mountain climbing as a lifelong passion, go for it kiddo. But if they want to be a stripper, we've got problems.

 

Right now my son wants to be a magician and a clown when he grows up. He is spending literally hours pouring over magic trick books. No way would I tell him that was a worthless profession. What do I know? Maybe he'll grow up to be an incredible clown who brings joy to everyone around him. He may go nowhere with that passion. It may fizzle and he'll move on to something else, but the time spend pursuing that desire was totally worth it.

 

Likewise, I imagine the non-christian uses their own set of beliefs to determine what they find worthwhile.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Daisy

[hornblower]

I'm thinking excessive time spent on this board is pretty much in the 'selfish waste of time' column.

:leaving:

 

 

We should probably spend some time determining excessive though.....

:D

[Daisy]

I'm thinking excessive time spent on this board is pretty much in the 'selfish waste of time' column.

:leaving:

 

 

We should probably spend some time determining excessive though.....

:D

 

BWHAAAAA! :lol::lol:

 

Ya' think?!

[Peela]

I'm thinking excessive time spent on this board is pretty much in the 'selfish waste of time' column.

:leaving:

 

 

We should probably spend some time determining excessive though.....

:D

 

Oh yeah! Lets do that! :lol::lol::lol:

[elegantlion]

Oh yeah! Lets do that! :lol::lol::lol:

 

Do we have to count it hours or days? BTW, Peela, love the new photos. You and your family are simply beautiful!

[ElizabethB]

I can't remember the book, but it was a popular one, I think, I know someone here will know, but anyway, there was a great conversation in said book about all knowledge being worthwhile, then a question, how about memorizing all the names and phone numbers in the phone book in Spain, then the admission that unless the person memorizing the info went to Spain, yes, it was useless knowledge.

 

But you have to work pretty hard to get to this level of uselessness. And who knows when they might find a need to call someone in Spain.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would define a "selfish waste of time" as something that took the place of or seriously impacted genuine responsibilities.

 

If I am a child, I have a responsibility to get an education, to have a place in my family, to do certain chores as defined by my parents, and to respond to God if I have a relationship with Him. (Whether or not I have a responsibility towards God anyway would be the subject of another thread). Most young people with lofty dreams work hard to get their schoolwork done (either for the day so that they can go work out etc.) or in earlier months so that they are free to go on a more time-consuming adventure. They also work to fit in family and other responsibilities. A relationship with God might need fitting in around tour schedules, workouts, etc. but is probably the easiest to fit in if there is a desire to do so.

 

If I am an adult, I have a responsibility to pay my way in this world, to maintain certain family relationships, to meet the requirements of my government and again to respond to God if I have a relationship to Him. If I am married, of course I have a responsibility towards my spouse and the marriage relationship. If I have children there is a responsibility to my children to meet certain needs. It is often harder for adults to devote themselves to these longer more time-consuming pursuits. Plus there are physical reasons why often young people are the ones pursuing the Olympic dreams, the long treks etc. Of course though there are some pursuits that require greater wisdom and experience in order to handle problems or to have something worthwhile to share (ie. in the great American novel).

[OrganicAnn]

I don't know whether the sailor girl was a selfish waste of time or not.

 

The only thing I would object to is when people doing activities where they know it will lead to a high probability of needing to be rescued. Especially if the rescue involves the risk of life to the rescuers and enormous expense. I don't think it was fair to put others at risk.

 

ETA: and I mean really really high probability. Not just mountain climbing or sailing. Like planning on mountain climbing into a blizzard or sailing into a hurricane. Obviously all of these activities have some probably of needing to be rescued.

Edited June 15, 2010 by OrganicAnn

[msjones]

I don't know whether the sailor girl was a selfish waste of time or not.

 

The only thing I would object to is when people doing activities where they know it will lead to a high probability of needing to be rescued. Especially if the rescue involves the risk of life to the rescuers and enormous expense. I don't think it was fair to put others at risk.

 

Interesting... My husband wants to climb Mt. Rainier. I told him he can't. Not until the boys are grown. I don't want to be left raising my boys alone just so he could climb a mountain.

 

But, I do understand and support his goal of climbing it. I hope he will some day. So, I guess we agree that the context of these things is important. That seems to be what Jean in Newcastle was getting at, too.

[msjones]

Also, I was just thinking about some of the things I'd spend lots of money to travel to see. Many of them could be considered wastes of time and resources. Think of the pyramids, the Eiffel Tower, the Golden Gate Bridge. Think of all that art in Paris! Or how about the first ladies' dresses in DC? I can't wait to see those. But they could be seen as a waste of time and money, depending on how you prioritize things.

 

And I would LOVE to hike the Grand Canyon, or the Pacific Crest Trail. Those aren't man-made, of course. But touring them would take lots of time and energy that could be used elsewhere.

 

I've heard people say having babies is selfish and a waste of resources. (I try not to talk with them for too long...)

[LibraryLover]

Well, there is no way I am going to count today's minutes here. No way.

 

I need more animals, more garden, less self-motivated children.

[Kathleen in VA]

I would define a "selfish waste of time" as something that took the place of or seriously impacted genuine responsibilities.

 

If I am a child, I have a responsibility to get an education, to have a place in my family, to do certain chores as defined by my parents, and to respond to God if I have a relationship with Him. (Whether or not I have a responsibility towards God anyway would be the subject of another thread). Most young people with lofty dreams work hard to get their schoolwork done (either for the day so that they can go work out etc.) or in earlier months so that they are free to go on a more time-consuming adventure. They also work to fit in family and other responsibilities. A relationship with God might need fitting in around tour schedules, workouts, etc. but is probably the easiest to fit in if there is a desire to do so.

 

If I am an adult, I have a responsibility to pay my way in this world, to maintain certain family relationships, to meet the requirements of my government and again to respond to God if I have a relationship to Him. If I am married, of course I have a responsibility towards my spouse and the marriage relationship. If I have children there is a responsibility to my children to meet certain needs. It is often harder for adults to devote themselves to these longer more time-consuming pursuits. Plus there are physical reasons why often young people are the ones pursuing the Olympic dreams, the long treks etc. Of course though there are some pursuits that require greater wisdom and experience in order to handle problems or to have something worthwhile to share (ie. in the great American novel).

 

Very wise post, Jean. I think you've gotten to the heart of it.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I wanted to come back and say that from a Christian perspective (which is the perspective that supposedly said that it was a selfish waste of time), serving God is supposed to be a priority. But serving God is not a list of outward things to be done. It can (and should) start with learning about God and developing your relationship with Him. And it should then grow naturally outward. But you need a certain amount of maturity in your faith in order to serve others effectively. And the details of how and where you should serve Him is a very individual and often transitory thing. It may call on you not following the path that others follow or it may be something that encompasses a very ordinary life.

[Daisy]

I wanted to come back and say that from a Christian perspective (which is the perspective that supposedly said that it was a selfish waste of time), serving God is supposed to be a priority. But serving God is not a list of outward things to be done. It can (and should) start with learning about God and developing your relationship with Him. And it should then grow naturally outward. But you need a certain amount of maturity in your faith in order to serve others effectively. And the details of how and where you should serve Him is a very individual and often transitory thing. It may call on you not following the path that others follow or it may be something that encompasses a very ordinary life.

 

This is exactly what I was getting at. You said it beautifully.

[IsabelC]

I believe that there are good reasons why humans have evolved (or were created by God, if that is your worldview) with a huge variety in characters and abilities. For a society to thrive and develop, you need to have a certain proportion of risk-attracted people who will innovate and discover new things and places (if they don't get killed first). But you also need to have a certain (probably larger) proportion of risk-averse people who will maintain balance and stability, because if everyone rushes off doing dangerous things there is nobody to keep the society chugging along at home. Similarly it's great to have people who pursue art, philosophy and so on, but you need people to do the practical work too. And so on and so forth. Therefore, I think it's a good thing for people to follow their passions and dreams, as long as doing so does not harm or unduly inconvenience other people. Ie, my right to self actualization ends where it impinges on any of your rights. And I think that is where it can get contentious. The teenage girl who wants to become a stripper might argue that this only effects her and doesn't constitute harming others. However, you could respond that becoming part of that industry is contributing to the degrading of women everywhere, and could lead to other girls/women ending up in degrading or dangerous situations and encourage more men to participate in that subculture. Ie, all potential harm, whether direct or indirect, needs to be taken into account.