MelissaM Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 My dh has a shot in the dark chance at moving to Europe (most likely the London area). I'm doing some initial research into housing, ect. and am completely shocked at how expensive it is in Europe compared to the US. It is even more expensive when compared to the southern portion of the US. The other option is Spain which is also expensive. What I've found so far that is price comparable are 2 bedroom/1 bath (1 uber-tiny and dated at that!) flats with radiator heating. Is that a typical British/European housing situation? That sounds awfully cramped for 6 people. What are some other really major differences between the US and England and/or Europe in general? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 My Dh is also up for a job in London. In our case, their is a base salary then then is a separate pay for housing, and a separate pay for schooling. In our situation, if he gets the job, we won't live in London but in one of the home counties so that we can have a larger home and yard. We would be getting a lot more money than in the States but that is what it costs to make it affordable for Americans to live there in anything like a similar situation to the US. When we were in mainland Europe, we had the same deal (except no schooling fees as there was an American school in our area). We lived in a very nice big house with a half acre yard or larger. As my husband says, if your are moving to London with a salary comparble to a US salary it would be like moving to Manhattan but with half your pay. Spain is a lot cheaper than England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 A long time ago, a friend was talking about a trip she had visiting relatives in the UK. She asked to use the restroom. She thought that perhaps they misunderstood her because of her accent or something when they showed her a cupboard. It was the restroom of course but quite cramped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorbie Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 A friend of mine has relatives in England that recently came to visit her and some other relatives in the U.S. They were shocked at the size of our houses, especially at the house of one couple who have no kids and 5 bedrooms. They just could not understand it. They did learn the new word McMansion though. -Amber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 My dh has a shot in the dark chance at moving to Europe (most likely the London area). I'm doing some initial research into housing, ect. and am completely shocked at how expensive it is in Europe compared to the US. It is even more expensive when compared to the southern portion of the US. The other option is Spain which is also expensive. What I've found so far that is price comparable are 2 bedroom/1 bath (1 uber-tiny and dated at that!) flats with radiator heating. Is that a typical British/European housing situation? That sounds awfully cramped for 6 people. What are some other really major differences between the US and England and/or Europe in general? It is much more expensive. When we lived in Germany gas was more per liter than what we were paying per gallon in the US. I think it was like $6.00 gallon and that was several years ago. In the UK right now gas prices are almost $8/gallon (but they pay per liter). They have socialized medicine, subsidized public transportation and such but they pay a huge portion of their wages in taxes. You would probably be able to get by with just one car because it's easy to walk everywhere and/or take the bus or train. There are lots of little differences-good, bad and things that are just *different*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa in CO Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 We are military and we loved living in England. However, things in England (houses, cars, refrigerators, . . .) are much smaller than in the US. If you are in the London area housing will be very expensive. We lived in a 2-bedroom, 1 bath house, but we were about 90 miles from London. We had two kids at the time. It was tight. Most of the houses are not single stand-alone houses but duplexes or 3- or 4- or 5- or more plexes, so you share a wall or two with neighbors. And you can still find many homes with thatched roofs--they're really that old. England is a great place to homeschool! There are castle ruins and historical places around every corner. London is a classical homeschooler's paradise. I wish my children had been older when we lived in England. The British people are wonderful, friendly, and very well educated. When we moved back to the US it was a relief to have a full-size refrigerator again, and a big washer and dryer, and an oven big enough to hold a turkey! We took our '96 Chevy Blazer over there, and it looked like an elephant next to the cute little British cars. I would gladly go back to England! It takes some getting used to, but it also makes you appreciate the good things we have in the US. Lisa in CO homeschooling four (ages 11, 9, 7, and 4) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Just for comparison, my brother (high level programmer) and SIL (school administrator) have a four-bedroom house near London. Two of the bedrooms are tiny (just space for a single bed and to open the door), one is a small double and one is a good-sized double. They have one small car and go on holiday for one week a year. My brother cycles to work and my SIL walks; the children take the public bus. Both children go to state (public) school and they have no savings. They have a small fridge, but a second fridge and a freezer in the garage. They have a washing machine but no dryer - everything is line-dried or put on a radiator. On the other hand, five weeks of vacation time are normal, so people take their wealth in free time, rather than cash. Best wishes Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Life in Europe is different--don't expect to be able to replicate you life in the US unless you are willing to pay alot of money. Houses are smaller, water systems are different from how the water is heated (ie. in house or by the supplier) to potability, appliances are smaller, everything is on a different electrical current, washers and dryers are both smaller and slower (often 4 hours or more to complete a one load wash and dry), shopping for food is different and some of the food itself is different, in London cars are different (right hand drive, different emissions standards, and parking?), medical care is different, TVs and videos are on a different system and you need to licence your TV in London...I could go on... However, I have lived in Europe for nearly 5 years and wouldn't trade a minute. I would love to be in London--it would be one of the great homeschooling opportunities. I don't know how we could learn at home with all the field trip possibilities.:001_smile: I say nothing to try and discourage you--it is a wonderful opportunity--just be forewarned so that you aren't shocked when you get there. I will remain envious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in the Kootenays Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 When we visited her, the things that stood out were the costs (everything seemed really expensive), the great public transit, and lots of cultural opportunities. I trade spacious housing for a stay in London if I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen sn Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Life in Europe is different--don't expect to be able to replicate you life in the US unless you are willing to pay alot of money. Houses are smaller, water systems are different from how the water is heated (ie. in house or by the supplier) to potability, appliances are smaller, everything is on a different electrical current, washers and dryers are both smaller and slower (often 4 hours or more to complete a one load wash and dry), shopping for food is different and some of the food itself is different, in London cars are different (right hand drive, different emissions standards, and parking?), medical care is different, TVs and videos are on a different system and you need to licence your TV in London...I could go on... However, I have lived in Europe for nearly 5 years and wouldn't trade a minute. I would love to be in London--it would be one of the great homeschooling opportunities. I don't know how we could learn at home with all the field trip possibilities.:001_smile: I say nothing to try and discourage you--it is a wonderful opportunity--just be forewarned so that you aren't shocked when you get there. I will remain envious! Please explain license your TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StacyWithFourRugrats Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Personally, if your dh's company is willing to pay the cost of living adjustment, I would go over there in heartbeat. What better way to learn about other cultures without the big(ger) culture and language shock you will get with mainland Europe. Right now, the dollar is very low and it is a pretty much 2:1 conversion ($2 for 1 pound). House prices are outrageous right now (tho like the US, the UK housing bubble may be bursting) and you get a lot less for 2x the price. You pay more in taxes too. BUT you get more services for your taxes such as socialized medicine (tho some companies offer BUPA which is private health insurance...and take note that the NHS - National Health Service - does not cover dental and eye care) and public transportation (tho the cost has increased lately). Everything is smaller as there are a lot of people on a small island basically. Much of Britain is beautiful and the history is extensive. Trips to mainland Europe are quicky and easy (and cheaper) so you can learn about more cultures through quick trips. We are considering a move to Wales for family reasons but can not decide do to the cost of living there (and Wales is a bit of a depressed area). So we have been looking into it ourselves :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StacyWithFourRugrats Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Please explain license your TV. You have to pay a yearly license to have a TV. It is about 144 pounds a year right now (12 pounds a month). I *believe* it basically supported the 4 British channels that were available (they do not have much or any commercials). Now a days, many more channels are available but there is still the TV license :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSICAinMD Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Just about everything is smaller and very little storage. Closets and parking can be hard to find. Bathrooms are tiny. Kitchens are tiny. Some apartments I have been in don't even have room for a stove and oven. (Hello hotplate and toaster oven!) It can take some time too adjust to the size differences. Some American furniture doesn't fit (Queen and King sized beds in some buildings.) We put our larger furniture in storage when we were overseas. The US government and many companies offer addition money when living overseas to help offset the cost. I think the experience makes up for the inconveniences and the adjustments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnUK Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 The TV license is the fee that you have to pay every year to have a TV in your house. I think that I just paid near $250 to renew ours, but the road tax is worse-- that's $375 a year per car. Thankfully, since my husband is in the military, they reinburse us these expenses. And, yes, most houses are small, but there are a lot of big houses as well. Not in London, I imagine, but if you're willing to commute. We live an hour from London by train, and most of my neighbors work in London. We have a seven bedroom house! It's 4500 square feet and only six years old. It's the biggest house that we've ever lived in (or probably will ever live in). Obviously, being a stay at home mom, and my husband being in the military we by no means make huge sums of money. The majority of my US friends here do have large houses as well, you just have to be willing to look for them. It was quite an adjustment moving here, but it's really been great. Wouldn't trade this experience for anything! --Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 We'll know in the next few days if dh's application for a job in London was successful. We believe that emigrating to the UK will afford our children a better future than here in South Africa. Our quality of life (safety, opportunities for further education, access to health care, no more electricity cuts!, etc) will be better, but our standard of living (size of house, cars, holidays, etc.) will definitely take a huge dive. I am considering going back to work so we can build up savings and prepare for retirement. Some very useful sites I've come across are: commutefrom.com shows you where to live on London's commuter routes. The site links to estate agents and general info on the area around every station. primelocation.com is a property site. rightmove.co.uk/ is another property site. At upmystreet.com/ you can put in the area you're interested in and get info on gas and electricity, home insurance, taxes as well as other more general area info. Here's a cost of living page set up for working travellers that gives some idea of general costs. I also used mysupermarket.co.uk (and used the company postal code) to get an idea of grocery costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camibami Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 We're due to move to the UK in August -or DH will go to Iraq and we'll stay right here, but thats another thread! Anyhoo, its just torture to me that everything is *so* expensive and the dollar is so low right now. We'll be there, but will be able to afford to go anywhere and experience Europe? Or will we be eating hot dogs from the toaster oven and wishing we could afford the TV tax?? I'm hoping for base housing because we won't have to replace so many lamps, clocks, etc (they run on US voltage). I'd love to live out in a village, but...not terribly cost effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 The TV license is the fee that you have to pay every year to have a TV in your house. I put one of the Sky packages in our preliminary budget for TV phone and broadband. Would the TV license fee be in addition to this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnUK Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Hannah, It is in addition to the Sky cable. Just to have a TV in your home requires a current TV tax certificate. Apparently, even using a computer without one violates the law. My neighbor said that they do random checks and have some type of equipment to tell if there is a TV in the home. If there isn't a TV tax on file then the fine is several thousand pounds. Yikes, huh!? --Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabelen Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Right now, both countries are expensive. Both the Sterling pound and the Euro are very strong against the dollar. Where in Spain would it be? I was born and bred in Madrid. My family are still there, and we visit every now and then. As far as common things between UK and Spain. Radiator heating is the norm. Much smaller housing is the norm too. You just have to think small. One car families are very common. Many young people don't have a car. You can walk to many places or take public transport. In Madrid it is very efficient and inexpensive. Off street parking is also very common unless you live outside the cities. Housing prices are high, although not as high as they were a couple of years ago. The real estate market has slowed down just like it has over here. Gas prices will make you gasp for air. It's a fact of life. I think overall things are actually more expensive over there, but there are a couple of areas where the reverse is true. Public transport is one. Another one is medical services. The Spanish medical system is very good and also very inexpensive. The NHS used to be excellent but I have heard standards have gone down in recent years due to budget cuts. The last thing is that Europeans still rely on their governments to provide them with a retirement pension and benefits that will see them through their latter years. This might not be true for younger generations, but right now that's how things work. This, of course, might be of no interest to you if you are just planning to stay for a couple of years, but it is an area where taxes go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate CA Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Hannah, It is in addition to the Sky cable. Just to have a TV in your home requires a current TV tax certificate. Apparently, even using a computer without one violates the law. My neighbor said that they do random checks and have some type of equipment to tell if there is a TV in the home. If there isn't a TV tax on file then the fine is several thousand pounds. Yikes, huh!? --Dawn That has got to be one of the strangest things I have ever read! It almost sounds like Germany not allowing radios to the occupied homes in WWII! Do you know why there is this huge tax? Since the pound is about double the dollar that is one huge amount of money for a TV!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam "SFSOM" in TN Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 That has got to be one of the strangest things I have ever read! It almost sounds like Germany not allowing radios to the occupied homes in WWII! Do you know why there is this huge tax? Since the pound is about double the dollar that is one huge amount of money for a TV!! Well, but doesn't it pay for programming? Like cable tv? You pay for the BBC channels, just not monthly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate CA Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Well, but doesn't it pay for programming? Like cable tv? You pay for the BBC channels, just not monthly. No, above Dawn posted, "The TV license is the fee that you have to pay every year to have a TV in your house." The Sky TV (like our cable) is separate. I just find it amazing that anyone would have to pay to have a TV in their home. It sounds like something out of a controlled society, not a western one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam "SFSOM" in TN Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 No, above Dawn posted, "The TV license is the fee that you have to pay every year to have a TV in your house." The Sky TV (like our cable) is separate. I just find it amazing that anyone would have to pay to have a TV in their home. It sounds like something out of a controlled society, not a western one. No, what I meant was, you know how we pay taxes to support Public Broadcasting? Not per television, but via legislation per taxpayer? Well, isn't all of the BBC TV produced by an entity that is supported by tax dollars? Sky Cable, with its various foreign channels, would of necessity be subscription priced even though it, like Comcast provides my local channels, also furnishes the BBC channels alongside other channels. Different system, is all. Not everyone contributes to the production costs, only those that have a TV. But that's just a question on my part, speculation. That's how I imagine it might be. ETA: Yep, I was right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate CA Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 No, what I meant was, you know how we pay taxes to support Public Broadcasting? Not per television, but via legislation per taxpayer? Well, isn't all of the BBC TV produced by an entity that is supported by tax dollars? Sky Cable, with its various foreign channels, would of necessity be subscription priced even though it, like Comcast provides my local channels, also furnishes the BBC channels alongside other channels. Different system, is all. Not everyone contributes to the production costs, only those that have a TV. But that's just a question on my part, speculation. That's how I imagine it might be. ETA: Yep, I was right. Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying. It is a pretty appalling number to me though! :tongue_smilie: I have to wonder how much of our tax money goes towards our own public TV. I don't think it is that much per household, but I could certainly be wrong. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam "SFSOM" in TN Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying. It is a pretty appalling number to me though! :tongue_smilie: I have to wonder how much of our tax money goes towards our own public TV. I don't think it is that much per household, but I could certainly be wrong. :) Well, remember too that we privately fund much of our public radio and TV. Pugh Charitable Trust, Templeton Foundation, Ford Foundation, Carnegie, and gifts from viewers like you. LOL I imagine BBCer's don't have to endure pledge drives. It probably balances out nicely. :-PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate CA Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 ... and gifts from viewers like you. LOL I imagine BBCer's don't have to endure pledge drives. It probably balances out nicely. :-PP LOL! I don't know - at least we can turn on another ten-sixty channels if we want to - to watch LOST or House or... :) While I would love to live in the UK again for a time, I certainly don't envy the high taxes that their socialized life requires. The article you linked certainly was an interesting one. On the other hand, there are so many hidden taxes in our own economy that it might be nice to actually *see* the taxes we pay in the way they do with their TV tax! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnUK Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Honestly, the taxes that they pay for everything are astounding! I can't imagine that there is anyway that it even compares to what we pay. In addition to all of the individual taxes that they pay, they pay a larger portion of their yearly income in taxes than we do--much larger my neighbor told me. She's in the finance business in London. Then begin adding in the road tax (which is a killer), the TV tax, the 18% VAT tax that is added to everything that you buy, the tax on gas that makes it $10 a gallon, and the council tax! The council tax for our home was 2000 pounds! The owner is exempt from this tax, though, since she rents to americans-- not sure why. My neighbor and I have spoken about this many times, most people have to do with so much less in order to survive. Everything here cost almost exactly twice as much as it does in the states. My two older kids and I went to The Spiderwick Chronicles at a Wednesday matinee last week, and for the tickets, three popcorns, and three drinks it cost $70! For a matinee!! It is crazy. --Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 at moving to Europe (most likely the London area). Do the English consider themselves Europeans? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lorna Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Just to add that in the UK you don't need a tv licence for a computer. You only need a licence if you have a television receiver. We didn't have a television in the UK and it is hard work! They send you letters every year asking you to write and confirm that you do not own one. It is illogical to me to need to go to the expense of a stamp to say I don't own something - I don't own a microwave or an ice cream maker either whilst we are about it! The letters presume you own a television and say spooky things such as 'We're watching you watching...'. There was a poster campaign in every area stating things like 'In Ferndale Road there are three homes without a licence'. We always used to shout at the posters, 'But they might not even have a tv!'. The letters always say they are going to call round to search the house. Legally they can enter your house when you are not in if they have reason to believe that there is a television in there. They have never actually come though. It isn't against the law not to own a television but it certainly feels like it sometimes. My friend is a single mum and hasn't got a television. She got quite scared by the letters, and felt the neighbours must think badly of her when they saw the letters. Her friend eventually bought her a licence - even though she had no television. The television licence funds the BBC which really accounts for two terrestrial channels and some wonderful radio stations. The BBC is one of the best things about living in the UK, for the radio. I would be more than happy to pay for the radio we listen to in the UK which is advert free and of superb quality. The licence fee really makes no sense as more and more entertainment is available over the web. I notice that the BBC carry adverts if you use their website abroad. I worry that the confusion of how the licence fee works in a more complex world where the family no longer huddle round the television and watch a choice of three channels will have a negative effect on the wonderful luxury the world has in gaining access to programmes such as 'In Our Time', The World Service radio, Radio 7 comedies and dramas and the science programmes on radio four. Without the BBC we wouldn't have the wonderful Pride and Prejudice with Jennifer Earle and Colin Firth either! Hurrah for the BBC, and boo to the Big Brother is watching you licence fee. Thank you to all who have listened to my daily rant.... :smash: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lorna Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Do the English consider themselves Europeans? ;) :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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