Could someone help me figure this out...5year old boy

[thundersweet]

I have been having the hardest time teaching my 5yo son. He'll be 6 at the end of July. The kid has not been able to learn his numbers to save his life. He knows a few of them from 1-10 and thats it. He can count but he cannot identify them. He's been writing and saying them for months and still when I ask him to show me the 8 or point to the 8, he doesn't know it. Or, he'll tell me once and the literally 2 seconds later he'll say it's a 4. I have been pulling my hair out over this. I get so frustrated with him and get so mad at myself for getting upset with him.

 

THEN 2 nights ago....dh suggested I try using the cards from Addition the Fun Way. (he was really concerned about him) Some of the numbers are made into little characters. He was able to learn them within a few minutes. Why is this? Is this right brain learning? I don't fully understand the whole concept of right brain learning but I would like to read more. Any suggestions?

 

I would also love any additional curriculum resources you have used with your child like this. I am thinking we may need something similar Addition the Fun Way but for reading. He's doing just ok with learning to read. It's a slow process. We are just using The Reading Lesson. Maybe changing his program to something more suited to his learning style would kick it up a notch. He was soooo proud of himself for learning his numbers. What a relief for me as well. I was getting really worried!

 

Thanks,

Sandy

Edited May 20, 2010 by thundersweet

[Dmmetler]

Have you looked at the Leap Frog DVDs? They make the letters/numbers into little characters. There are flash cards, too.

 

Also, you might want to check out ZooPhonics. I've never used it, but it ties each letter into an animal and adds sounds/gestures, and apparently is very, very good for kids who do well with mnemonics.

[thundersweet]

He has never been interested in the Leapfrog videos. They worked great for my dd! I had no idea they had flashcards though. Off to look at those. I'll check out ZooPhonics as well. That's a great suggestion.

 

Thanks,

Sandy

[Jen+4dc]

He has never been interested in the Leapfrog videos. They worked great for my dd! I had no idea they had flashcards though. Off to look at those. I'll check out ZooPhonics as well. That's a great suggestion.

 

Thanks,

Sandy

 

My ds7 used Zoophonics in ps kindy. We liked them well enough. But, I would suggest continuing with a full phonics program from beginning to end. I brought him home for first grade and jumped between programs and the results weren't good! With my next who starts hs kindy next year we'll do Phonics Pathways until we're done, regardless of how well she's reading!

 

Just my 2 cents.:D

[johnandtinagilbert]

Go Fish was the savior at our house. We struggled with number names and recognition, so we started playing Go Fish and Sorry all the time. Counting, calling out....worked for all 5 dc and hopefully will work again for the next round of kiddos.

[MamaT]

I don't know if this would work for your son, but my third son had lots of trouble remembering his numbers AND letters. My 10yo at the time informed me that I was teaching him all wrong (they are both lefties). :001_smile:

 

He took a pan of cornmeal and had him write his letters/numbers in the cornmeal. He had him make playdough letters, etc. He worked with him this way for about a week and he had them down flat.

[EKS]

Have you had his vision evaluated? I'd take him to a developmental optometrist for a developmental vision exam.

[JennW in SoCal]

Go Fish and Sorry are terrific ideas! Drawing in cornmeal is a really common trick in preschools, and you can have him draw in the sandbox or use brightly colored dry erase markers on a white board, or use chalk on the sidewalk.

 

It may be the case that your ds is a right-brained learner, or just needs a different approach for learning. I read many books on learning styles when my oldest was little because he just stumped me! Right Brained Children in a Left-Brained World resonated with me as did another with a title somthing like The Edison Trait -- the title was referring to Thomas Edison being kicked out of school yet clearly having a brilliant mind. As my ds got older the book that reassured me the most was Mel Levine's A Mind at a Time.

 

You may find you have to always think outside the box, or workbook, with your ds. He may do much better with hands on material instead of the standard workbook approach. I had one who thrived with manipulatives and another who was annoyed with them and just wanted to do the problems. The book Family Math is filled with games for learning everything from number concepts to basic math functions using things from around the house. The only extra step is making copies of some of the black line masters in the book. Math U See is terrific for using manipulatives as is Miquon. One of my proudest homeschool moments was when my oldest finally understood equivalent fractions after I figured out how to demonstrate it with cuisenaire rods.

 

Hope this helps!

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Uno also helped at our house.

[Snickerdoodle]

Just remember that the symbols we use for numbers are abstract representations. Try to work more in concrete terms. Use beans, M&M's or whatever you like and illustrate each number until he understands.

[hjacob]

Reminds me of a friend who finally had her son tested, and he had dyslexia.

[thundersweet]

Reminds me of a friend who finally had her son tested, and he had dyslexia.

 

My mom suggested that. Isn't dyslexia where you see things backwards or in a different order? He has no problems with that. I'll go read up on it.

 

Where would one go to have their dc tested for learning disabilities?

 

Thanks,

Sandy

[Sahamamama]

I made up a little game we call "Bug Bingo," but you could use any theme. What you do is:

 

 

 

1. Fold letter-sized paper in half length-wise, then in thirds width-wise. Unfold it and draw lines on the folds to make a 3 x 2 grid. Write random numbers from 0-20 (or 0-30). Make up several of these "Bingo sheets." You can put two of them, back-to-back, in plastic sheet protectors for sturdiness.
   
2. Use anything you want to for "markers." We use bright and colorful little paper bugs from a teacher store (the kind that come in a set for bulletin boards). These are nice because there are six of each bug, and the girls get to choose their bug each time they play. You could use little army men, small tiles, blocks, two-color chips, etc. You'll need six objects to use as markers for each player.
   
3. Buy or make a set of number cards -- 0-20 (or 0-30), with large, legible numbers.
   

 

Just play this like Bingo -- turn over the card, identify the number, and then look on your Bingo sheet. Do you have this number? Do you have 23?

 

My girls LOVE playing this game. In fact, they are playing it right now! :lol: I really need to go watch them play....

[thundersweet]

Thanks for all the great suggestions! JennW, I am going to check out those books you suggested.

 

Sandy

[2squared]

It could just be a boy thing. My newly turned 6yo didn't learn his numbers until he had a reason to know them. He had definitely been exposed before then, but he just didn't feel like remembering.

 

When I was about to give up all hope, he learned some in the context of his Thomas Trains, and he learned the rest when my dd taught him how to play war with our RightStart cards. Nothing I did before made a difference. :banghead:

 

Ditto to the ABCs........until he decided he needed to know them, he just didn't commit them to memory

[sleepymommy]

I think he is a right-brained learner. If your also having trouble with him remembering letters, Dianne Craft has a set of phonics flashcards that have the letter drawn into pictures. I have not used them but they are supposed to be very helpful to some children.

 

http://stores.diannecraft.org/Categories.bok?c

 

Now my next suggestion, if he is a right brained learner, would be to try the exercises she has in this book

 

http://stores.diannecraft.org/Detail.bok?no=1

 

I did some of these with ds1. I was not consistent at all, but I did see a bit of improvement. Perhaps more if I had done them more faithfully, but it's hard to say.

 

If he prefers learning with stories, I would try looking at Waldorf math programs. It's also very visual.

[blessedmom3]

Yes ! He is a right brainer . A strong visual spatial learner. Learn as much as you can about it .

To start ckeck this (scroll down):

http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/Visual_Spatial_Learner/vsl.htm

 

http://www.custom-homeschool-curriculum.com/visual-spatial-homeschool-curriculum.html

 

For my son (5yo , will be 6 in Oct.) , any math works but I use the abacus a lot. Rightstart math doesn't work for him (too wordy) unless I use the concepts but don't talk too much :) I do use a lot of concepts from RS math but we love CLE with a lot of abacus use ,base ten blocks and other manipulatives . He needs a spiral program. He does confuse 12 with 21 , b and d sometimes but this is still developmental appropiate for his age and very common to VSL .

 

For phonics I like Adventures in Phonics and Phonics Pathways with CLP Phonics readers .I guess CLE would work great too but it's too expensive ...

Spelling , when he will be older , Sequential Spelling seems to be the best with this type of learners.

History - a lot of books with pictures (Sonlight) and definitelly a wall timeline.

Science -the same , lots of hands on +DVD-s ( at this point he loves Magic School Bus)

 

I don't think he has dyslexia ,he is just a strong VSL .

 

HTH

[Shay]

I personally need more info. before offering much advice. I work with the lowest incoming kindergarteners at the ps, so I am familiar with the troubles kids have.

 

Are you saying that he learned the numbers with Addition the Fun Way and he can generalize those numbers over into numbers that do not have any special markings/drawings?

 

You really didn't say if he is having similar trouble with letter (or letter sound) recognition, and that is important, IMHO, to know. Can he sound out words? Does he have great trouble knowing the sounds?

 

Also, I do not think people on this board, as well meaning as they are, can diagnose dyslexia (or not) or say you son is a certain type of learner. He is still so young, but I would want to deal with it ASAP, as you are trying.

 

For now, I would consider only teaching one letter (or number) till mastery. Then, add another, then another, and so on.

 

I use the I See Sam books with good success. They work in this way and the kids get to use their knowledge to read connected text. Well over 95% of the text is prior learning, so the stuff is getting consolidated and a little bit of "new" info is drip-fed into the mix.

 

For the kids I work with that have the most problems, it was caused by introducing too much information too fast and leads to mass confusion.

 

You might consider asking this question on the special needs board.

[silliness7]

My 3rd son has similar problems.

 

He's a smart kid but has lots of problems with numbers and letters. I was at the end of my rope the other day, wondering if he had dyslexia, reading online about it. However, I already knew he had a vision issue. When he tries to focus on things close up, one of his eyes, instead of coming in closer and closer to his nose will all of a sudden click out. The optometrist said it's a common problem, lots of kids outgrow it, gave us an eye exercise and some reading glasses. Fast forward 3 years.

 

So since I already knew he had an eye thing, I decided to start there and took him to a vision therapist some days ago. Among other things he said that my ds's left eye and right eye send different messages to his brain and ds has to decide which message to listen to. He can't depend on his eyes to give him consistent information and so he doesn't/can't learn visually. The dr. also said he probably wasn't dyslexic. He performed some type of evaluation where my son scored in the 60th percentile and he said dyslexics typically score in the 20th.

 

It's just amazing what all there is to know about the brain and how it works. It was quite an education for me.

 

We have not started therapy yet...saving our pennies. But I'm praying that it will help him.

[AK_Homesteaders]

I don't know if this would work for your son, but my third son had lots of trouble remembering his numbers AND letters. My 10yo at the time informed me that I was teaching him all wrong (they are both lefties). :001_smile:

 

He took a pan of cornmeal and had him write his letters/numbers in the cornmeal. He had him make playdough letters, etc. He worked with him this way for about a week and he had them down flat.

 

 

That's a great story! Funny how the older children just instinctively know how to relate to the younger ones.

[Mom-ninja.]

Just remember that the symbols we use for numbers are abstract representations. Try to work more in concrete terms. Use beans, M&M's or whatever you like and illustrate each number until he understands.

 

:iagree:

[Teachin'Mine]

Might want to have his vision tested just to rule that out. He may not be able to focus on the numbers themselves, but then when they've got other things drawn around them, they're easier to see. But it may have nothing to do with vision.

 

On edit: Silliness already brought up what I was talking about. :)

[EKS]

My mom suggested that. Isn't dyslexia where you see things backwards or in a different order? He has no problems with that. I'll go read up on it.

 

Where would one go to have their dc tested for learning disabilities?

 

Thanks,

Sandy

 

What you described reminds me of my son who has dyslexia and also had vision issues. I would check into the vision thing first and at the same time read the book Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz to see if anything in it resonates with you.

[Kristine in VA]

I know the answer to this!

 

My ds, who is now 14, did exactly the same thing with numbers. We would try to teach him just two numbers, like 7 and 8, since they look different, and he could not get it.

 

When he was six I took him to Mel Levine's (the pediatrician who specializes in learning differences) clinic because of difficulties he had generally in school and particularly with reading. One of the types of memory that we have is called paired associatve memory or something like that. It is the ability to link to pieces of information together, such as a letter and its sound, a number and its name, or a word and its definition. It is a vital skill in learning to read and was just one of the things that my ds was weak in. Turns out he is dyslexic. Of course, I'm not suggesting that your child is. Levine says that problems with paired association usually happen with specific kinds of pairs, like having trouble remembering definitions of words, but not other types of paired information. It is basically a problem with storing the information in long-term memory, and by giving the information in another form such as in pictures. My ds had a hard time remembering the upper multiplication facts until we used Times Tales the Easy Way which makes the numbers into characters.

 

The book I have is called Educational Care by Mel Levine. It is an interesting read for anyone interested in learning difficulties/differences. I'd be glad to give you more information about long-term memories issues and management techniques from the book if you are interested.

 

Hope that gives some insight,

Kristine in VA

[thundersweet]

I personally need more info. before offering much advice. I work with the lowest incoming kindergarteners at the ps, so I am familiar with the troubles kids have.

 

Are you saying that he learned the numbers with Addition the Fun Way and he can generalize those numbers over into numbers that do not have any special markings/drawings?

 

You really didn't say if he is having similar trouble with letter (or letter sound) recognition, and that is important, IMHO, to know. Can he sound out words? Does he have great trouble knowing the sounds?

 

Also, I do not think people on this board, as well meaning as they are, can diagnose dyslexia (or not) or say you son is a certain type of learner. He is still so young, but I would want to deal with it ASAP, as you are trying.

 

For now, I would consider only teaching one letter (or number) till mastery. Then, add another, then another, and so on.

 

I use the I See Sam books with good success. They work in this way and the kids get to use their knowledge to read connected text. Well over 95% of the text is prior learning, so the stuff is getting consolidated and a little bit of "new" info is drip-fed into the mix.

 

For the kids I work with that have the most problems, it was caused by introducing too much information too fast and leads to mass confusion.

 

You might consider asking this question on the special needs board.

 

He really doesn't have trouble with letter sounds. I have not taught him letter names at this point. Our main issue is recognizing numbers. Up until I put characters to the numbers, it was pure frustration for the both of us. He couldn't even write 1-10 on th board for me without help after doing this for at least a month. It took me weeks to get him to recognize number 3. It's so strange to me how in just a few minutes of going over the numbers this way, he has them pretty much memorized. He is so proud of himself!

 

Where would one go to have their child tested? I really don't know if I need it at this point. I have been rather laid back with him and not consistent at all. (except for his numbers) I'll probably wait and see how he continues over the summer before I think about testing but I would like to know how to go about finding a place to have this done.

 

Thanks,

Sandy

[Guest Bibliophiles3]

I'm no expert but I'd say that because he could recognize the shapes of the characters but doesn't readily understand abstract numbers, he may have a learning challenge. Do you have access to testing through your public school system? If not, could you contact the early childhood development department at a local college/university? Hope you get the answer because the alphabet will be even more challenging if he is in fact learning challenged.

[Spy Car]

He really doesn't have trouble with letter sounds. I have not taught him letter names at this point. Our main issue is recognizing numbers. Up until I put characters to the numbers, it was pure frustration for the both of us. He couldn't even write 1-10 on th board for me without help after doing this for at least a month. It took me weeks to get him to recognize number 3. It's so strange to me how in just a few minutes of going over the numbers this way, he has them pretty much memorized. He is so proud of himself!

 

Where would one go to have their child tested? I really don't know if I need it at this point. I have been rather laid back with him and not consistent at all. (except for his numbers) I'll probably wait and see how he continues over the summer before I think about testing but I would like to know how to go about finding a place to have this done.

 

Thanks,

Sandy

 

In California you can be tested though the schools (up to a certain age). Our children are the same age, within a week or two. I would want to make sure there were no issues with learning disabilities as my first move.

 

One thing I stole from Right Start (which was honestly not really necessary in our case) was making numbers (cut out of sandpaper) glued to colorful card stock. With a "dot" for where to start with ones finger and a "path" with necessary arrows to follow, so the child can talk, and feel, and hear the number they are learning.

 

Best wishes.

 

Bill