Like Singapore, but more structured?

[Guest]

Are any of the Singapore-like math programs more structured than Singapore? By that I mean it tells you exactly what to do on what day? I love the Singapore approach, but I'm finding that I am not loving that it's kind of a do what you want when you want type of program. Or maybe I am missing how it is structured. We just started 1A.

[Dinsfamily]

Have you looked at the HIGs? They provide more structure. I didn't use them for 1A/1B, but I'm finding them very useful for 2A.

[MissKNG]

We just started 1A as well! I don't have the HiG so I don't know if there is something in there that tells you what to do. At first I started doing a section of the textbook until I got to the little arrow at the bottom that directs you to a workbook page and calling that a lesson. Now we are doing 2-3 lessons because just one wasn't enough but I don't want to move too fast. Where are you in 1A?

Edited April 30, 2010 by MissKNG

[Just Robyn]

Are any of the Singapore-like math programs more structured than Singapore? By that I mean it tells you exactly what to do on what day? I love the Singapore approach, but I'm finding that I am not loving that it's kind of a do what you want when you want type of program. Or maybe I am missing how it is structured. We just started 1A.

 

:iagree:I tried 1B *with* the HIG and I would love to know if there's something like singapore but with daily instructions.:bigear:

[Guest]

Yes, I have the HIG, but I could use a little more direction - day to day. We just got to Unit 2 and I didn't like that it says to kind of stay learning the number bonds until they know them. That's very ambiguous to me.

[jclinton]

I use the HIG's but not in level 1. I know in the other levels there is a schedule in the front of the book... are you looking for something more than that?

What is it you like about Singapore? Is it the mental math approach, the workbooks? The mastery approach??? That might help people guide you to similar programs. I don't really think there is another program like Singapore out there- at least not that I've seen.

If it's the mastery approach MUS, Right Start and a couple of others are mastery programs.

Horizon and Saxon are spiral.

Not really sure what it is you're looking for. When my two were in those books we did the workbook pages, and math drills. We used flash cards to memorize the math facts. Not sure if that's what you're looking for.

HTH,

JoAnne

[sagira]

:iagree:I tried 1B *with* the HIG and I would love to know if there's something like singapore but with daily instructions.:bigear:

 

I'm wondering if the Japanese Math program is like this. I'm seriously considering getting it for ds next year. And the reason I eschewed Singapore. I need major hand-holding. I'm surprised I'm still using Miquon as a supplement, but I love how it gets the child to think.

[Guest]

I use the HIG's but not in level 1. I know in the other levels there is a schedule in the front of the book... are you looking for something more than that? Yes. Because when I look at that, it doesn't tell me how many days I'm spending doing "x" amount of lessons. I realize it has it broken down in weeks, but I like when it's broken down by day and gives a little more instruction each day - scripted, I guess. :)

What is it you like about Singapore? Is it the mental math approach, the workbooks? The mastery approach??? That might help people guide you to similar programs. I don't really think there is another program like Singapore out there- at least not that I've seen. I like the mental math, I like the thinking approach - it's very different than how I learned math. I learned more of a rote approach, I'd like my son to understand the "why's" behind the math - especially since he has the kind of mind that would grasp that easily.

If it's the mastery approach MUS, Right Start and a couple of others are mastery programs.

Horizon and Saxon are spiral. We did Saxon K, and while I loved the actual program, I don't think I could handle the spiral. I was done with it by the end of the year. I loved when we did Abeka, but that's what I did as a child and that's kind of what I'd like to get away from - very rote. I did like how the program was broken down into days - said "do page 1-3 today" and this is what you are teaching today. Right Start looks fun, but very pricey. The jury is out on MUS...

Not really sure what it is you're looking for. When my two were in those books we did the workbook pages, and math drills. We used flash cards to memorize the math facts. Not sure if that's what you're looking for.

HTH,

JoAnne

 

I'm wondering if the Japanese Math program is like this. I'm seriously considering getting it for ds next year. And the reason I eschewed Singapore. I need major hand-holding. I'm surprised I'm still using Miquon as a supplement, but I love how it gets the child to think.

 

I like Miquon, as well, but I think I'm okay with the freedom because it's a supplement. I'm not liking the freedom so much as our main program.

Edited April 30, 2010 by Guest

[forty-two]

 

MEP, maybe? It definitely takes a thinking approach to math and has a decent bit of mental math, and it has nice daily lesson plans. Plus it's free for the printing ;).

[Corraleno]

Math Mammoth is very similar to Singapore; it teaches math the "Asian way," with a focus on conceptual understanding and mental math, but I found it much easier to implement, for these reasons:

 

*It's divided into individual lessons, generally 2-3 pages, with the "teaching" part and the practice problems integrated in one place.

 

*There is a list on the MM website of how many pages per day a student should do to complete the A & B books in one school year ~ it works out to about 6 pages per week for 1st grade, so if you do one page per day for most days and 2 pages when you get to an easy lesson, it works out. You can also just do 2 pages/day, and use the extra time for math games, supplements, or whatever.

 

*MM is written directly to the student, so the conceptual explanations are very clear and explicit. If the student has questions, the parent can just read the explanation at the top of the lesson page and re-explain it to the student. MM breaks the concepts into small steps and explains them very very clearly. There is no need for a TE, HIG, "scripts," etc.

 

I recently bought 2 years worth of Japanese Math (texts & workbooks for 2A&B and 6A&B), but I'm sending it all back. The pages are just way too crowded and busy, and it has the same disadvantages (for me) as Singapore: I hate having to switch back and forth from the text to the workbook, there is no clear indication of how much to cover per day, and I didn't find the explanations in the Japanese texts to be nearly as thorough or explicit as those in Math Mammoth.

 

Jackie

[MissKNG]

Yes, I have the HIG, but I could use a little more direction - day to day. We just got to Unit 2 and I didn't like that it says to kind of stay learning the number bonds until they know them. That's very ambiguous to me.

 

We are on Unit 2 as well and after 2 lessons, that's when I decided to "step it up" because number bonds were getting a bit repetitive for my big girl. I only plan on using 1A for chapters 2-6 though. Like tonight, we are going to do the workbook exercises for 8 , 9 and 10 and that's it. I try to keep Singapore lessons a bit shorter than Horizons.

 

In regards to the Japanese math, I have the second grade books and I like that the pages are busy. Everything is all explained for you right on the page. I just have to talk my big girl through it and we are done. I posted samples from the workbook (2a) on my blog.

[Lovedtodeath]

We are using Math Mammoth. I am excited because next year we will use HOD and their guides have a hands-on math suggestion 3 times per week that goes along with the Singapore lessons that are scheduled (but we won't be switching to Singapore).

[karensk]

The SM Teacher Guides that I have (PM-2 through 6) show what to do for each day...there's a schedule-chart at the beginning of each unit, so I can see how many class days we'll spend on that unit. For each class day, the TG shows the Textbook pages, the problems in the Textbook (worked examples and the Practice problems), the Workbook exercise(s), and suggested activities/games. I add in some extra work from IP and CWP.

 

I know that the PM-1 teacher guides do not have a day-to-day schedule (the TG's published by Rosenbaum Foundation). But I thought that the HIG's told you what to do for each class period, too...maybe that only starts with PM-2? The Standards Edition probably has daily lesson plans, too, even starting at kindergarten level.

Edited April 30, 2010 by karensk

[Aloha2U]

Have you considered RightStart? I'm really surprised that no one has mentioned it yet, but that would be my suggestion. We're doing RS as our main math program and supplementing w/Singapore.

 

:001_smile: Melissa

[Kennic]

The Home Instructor's Guide give somewhat of a daily schedule, but the idea is that you can adjust it it fit your needs. No guide or curriculum can tell exactly what your kid needs to know, at least that is what I have found, and when it says something like work on the number bonds, you have to decide how much and for how long and in what way depending on your child. I found it easier to wait until the addition and subtraction section, because it had counting back and on for smaller ones, which made fewer to memorize at first. I could never get mine to fit anything structured day by day, it never worked. One was good at some things, the other needed more time on something else, and usually the structured stuff was way too slow. I gave up trying to fit my kids to any such thing and they learned more with less frustration. But I had to be aware of them and what they need and work with them to do best. We just moved forward, slowly or fast, as needed.

[melmichigan]

I'm confused, I have the PM Standard Edition HIG and it breaks it up by day, does the US edition not do this? I had to pull the 1B just to make sure I wasn't crazy...

[Spy Car]

I'm wondering if the Japanese Math program is like this. I'm seriously considering getting it for ds next year. And the reason I eschewed Singapore. I need major hand-holding. I'm surprised I'm still using Miquon as a supplement, but I love how it gets the child to think.

 

There is less hand-holding in the Japanese math materials. And less repetition than in the Singapore materials. I like the Japanese math materials, but I didn't really fully understand how to implement them until after using Singapore.

 

The Standards Edition HIGs are a pretty good resource for teacher/parents. I haven't seen anything similar for Tokyo Shoseki.

 

Bill

[Guest]

I'm confused, I have the PM Standard Edition HIG and it breaks it up by day, does the US edition not do this? I had to pull the 1B just to make sure I wasn't crazy...

 

I don't know about 1B, but no, 1A Standards does not break it up by day. It breaks it up by week, which I don't like. Then, each week has the answers and notes, but not by day. I ended up creating my own schedule yesterday here. (I have 18 weeks on there = 90 days) Ideally, yes, certain lessons are going to take more than a day, and I don't have that accounted for on my schedule, but my schedule also doesn't take up a full 18 weeks, so I can allot for those lessons accordingly.

 

We'll see how it goes. At this point, I feel like I'm complaining, so either I'll get with it or maybe it won't be a good fit. If all my subjects can't be teacher intensive, math may very well be the victim. ;)

[stripe]

I don't know to what degree it's Singapore-like, but MEP has a partially scripted daily lesson plan; you might want to take a look at it. Especially since it's free.

[sagira]

There is less hand-holding in the Japanese math materials. And less repetition than in the Singapore materials. I like the Japanese math materials, but I didn't really fully understand how to implement them until after using Singapore.

 

The Standards Edition HIGs are a pretty good resource for teacher/parents. I haven't seen anything similar for Tokyo Shoseki.

 

Bill

 

Thanks, Bill. I didn't see this until today, as I was on vacation. Hmm.. but I like how everything is explained right there to the student. Almost self-explanatory, or am I wrong? Based on the explanations, I can understand and explain. Am I missing something?

 

To the OP, sorry if I'm hijacking.

[Spy Car]

Thanks, Bill. I didn't see this until today, as I was on vacation. Hmm.. but I like how everything is explained right there to the student. Almost self-explanatory, or am I wrong? Based on the explanations, I can understand and explain. Am I missing something?

 

To the OP, sorry if I'm hijacking.

 

The Level One materials are very well-illustrated on a pictorial level. I'm impressed how well after having put these materials aside for a while (and having used Singapore). I found I got used to less text.

 

You could say "self-explanatory" if a person is moderately intuitive. I could see that a person who wanted a great deal of written direction might feel there is a lack of "hand-holding." It's really about perspective.

 

But even with the practice books there is less physical material/fewer problems than the Singapore materials. And one who feels Primary Math has too little review might feel doubly so about these materials.

 

I don't mean to sound negative. I'm actually toying with the idea of ordering next years materials. I do think if this program had an equivalent to the Singapore HIGs it would prove to be a more popular program. And that those who would likely be happy using it will likely be comfortable with "Asian-style" math and not people who need a great deal of hand-holding.

 

Bill

[Dinsfamily]

I have the 2A and 2B US edition HIGs and they break it up by day. There's a grid schedule up front and the detailed each day's lesson plan makes up the bulk of the book. Maybe hang in there?

[kalanamak]

I have found my kiddo is either VERY fast at catching the concept in math, or VERY slow. It has taken I don't know how long for clocks to sink in, but 16 oz to a pound happened in a flash. I cannot believe everyone's child progresses like clockwork, and encourage you to just divide your pages by the number of months you have in your school year, make that a minimum monthly requirement, and pace yourself from there. We get ahead, and then eat up our lead on some sticky subject doing extra practice or games or hands-on. Some months (I do year round) we spend 10 hours on math, and some we spend 15 hours. Singapore gives me the flexibility to let the "ground rise up to meet his feet".

[stripe]

The Level One materials are very well-illustrated on a pictorial level. I'm impressed how well after having put these materials aside for a while (and having used Singapore). I found I got used to less text.

 

You could say "self-explanatory" if a person is moderately intuitive. I could see that a person who wanted a great deal of written direction might feel there is a lack of "hand-holding." It's really about perspective.

Speaking ONLY about the workbooks in level one: There is nothing that explains how to tell time to the minute (this is in 1B). There is a bit about on the hour and on the half hour, but I don't think it would be too hard for anyone familiar with the analog clock to explain this to a child. On the other hand, I personally was a bit surprised at the non-discussion of telling time to the minute and have NO idea what their method of teaching this is.

[kalanamak]

Yes, I have the HIG, but I could use a little more direction - day to day. We just got to Unit 2 and I didn't like that it says to kind of stay learning the number bonds until they know them. That's very ambiguous to me.

 

I give it the college try, some extra practice, some review, some games, and then I move on, but double back to issues he can't do in a new setting (i.e. making sure he isn't just parroting the topic). I asked here, and people happily answered that you don't have to have that perfect before moving on. If I had a dollar for every time I drew a set of number bonds....

 

Now I'm drawing the bar representations. This is going faster.:)

[EKS]

We just do one workbook exercise and the associated textbook material each day. The HIG will give you some ideas for using manipulatives for each section if you need them. We drill facts with flashcards daily as well.

 

ETA: It is a little more difficult in the earlier levels because learning the facts/number bonds may take more time than the exercises take. Many times the unit after a fact intensive unit will be less fact intensive so it's usually pretty easy to drill and continue to move forward.

Edited May 8, 2010 by EKS

[AHASRADA]

I used Singapore 1B through 4A with the HiG. the HiG was somewhat helpful, but did not provide as much guidance nor as thorough explanations as I would have liked. By the time we started 4B, we were both getting lost. Neither of us could follow the meager instructions and apply them to all the problems. We ended up giving up on Singapore.

 

For some of us, programs that are not written for homeschool or independent study, do not provide enough guidance. There always feels like something's missing, like there is an important component out there that eludes us, and we don't get the full benefit of the program. This is how I felt about Singapore.

 

Just my $0.02.

[Spy Car]

I used Singapore 1B through 4A with the HiG. the HiG was somewhat helpful, but did not provide as much guidance nor as thorough explanations as I would have liked.

 

The Standards Edition HIGs have been totally written to provide more guidance and explanation for parents who felt such things were lacking in the US Edition HIGs

 

Bill

[naturelovinmama]

I have done Singapore for three years with my son--Earlybird to 1B. I have to admit I didn't even know about the HIG. He does well with math, so I have just had him do three pages of the workbook each day. I just counted pages at the beginning of the year and divided by the number of school days. I also threw in some Extra Practice for a while. But basically we just go through the workbook and will hopefully finish on time. It may be more difficult to do that now that he'll be on Level 2 next year, we'll see.

[fractalgal]

I used Singapore 1B through 4A with the HiG. the HiG was somewhat helpful, but did not provide as much guidance nor as thorough explanations as I would have liked. By the time we started 4B, we were both getting lost. Neither of us could follow the meager instructions and apply them to all the problems. We ended up giving up on Singapore.

 

For some of us, programs that are not written for homeschool or independent study, do not provide enough guidance. There always feels like something's missing, like there is an important component out there that eludes us, and we don't get the full benefit of the program. This is how I felt about Singapore.

 

Just my $0.02.

 

Another idea are the Teacher Guides. The HIG were not out yet last year when I would have needed Level 5.

 

I bought the TGs for Level 5 last year and had not used the HIG nor TGs before. I found the TG to be useful, and I'm glad I purchased it. It had relevant suggestions to aid me in presenting the concept and directed me to extra problem solving in the back. I think my daughter benefited from me using it. :)

[sagira]

The Level One materials are very well-illustrated on a pictorial level. I'm impressed how well after having put these materials aside for a while (and having used Singapore). I found I got used to less text.

 

You could say "self-explanatory" if a person is moderately intuitive. I could see that a person who wanted a great deal of written direction might feel there is a lack of "hand-holding." It's really about perspective.

 

But even with the practice books there is less physical material/fewer problems than the Singapore materials. And one who feels Primary Math has too little review might feel doubly so about these materials.

 

I don't mean to sound negative. I'm actually toying with the idea of ordering next years materials. I do think if this program had an equivalent to the Singapore HIGs it would prove to be a more popular program. And that those who would likely be happy using it will likely be comfortable with "Asian-style" math and not people who need a great deal of hand-holding.

 

Bill

 

Thank you, Bill. Left to ponder whether a combination of Singapore (with the HIG Standards edition) and Japanese math worbooks would suit me.. (scratching head)

[Spy Car]

Thank you, Bill. Left to ponder whether a combination of Singapore (with the HIG Standards edition) and Japanese math worbooks would suit me.. (scratching head)

 

They are stylistically similar, so is that a positive or negative in your situation?

 

The Japanese materials are thiner than Singapore, so be prepared for some price/value differences. Again, this is not to be negative I just want you to know ahead of time that you will get less in the way of materials with the Japanese Math. The higher relative cost makes sense since they are likely selling few books compared to Singapore Math.

 

The scope is pretty similar to the Singapore materials at this level, but my understanding (could be wrong) is they get into introducing geometry early on, and that is a strong point. But, again my comprehension of the later levels is pretty limited.

 

I remain very happy with MEP as a supplement or co-program with a Primary Mathematics (Singapore). Stylistically it could not be more different than colorful graphic (and sometimes cartoonish) Asian math books. the underlying math is very sympathetic in approach however, and the puzzel-like challenges are fun and require *thinking* of a sort that the other programs like Singapore tend to reserve for the supplemental books (like IPs and CWPs) and even then tree is a difference. MEP really incorporates reasoning skill into most of the problems, which (if you have a thinker) makes the math more fun than just being run through concept building, even if that concept building is well-done and necessary.

 

Bill

Edited May 10, 2010 by Spy Car

[stripe]

You can see the scope of the Japanese curriculum here:

http://www.globaledresources.com/products/books/math_elementary/topics.html

workbook table of contents here:

http://www.globaledresources.com/products/books/dojinsha-files/topics-covered.pdf

 

Personally I find the Japanese and Singapore similar (not identical); I am not entirely sure you would need/want to do both at the same time.

[sagira]

Stripe, are you using Japanese right now? How is it day to day?

 

Bill, I've been printing off MEP and trying it out. Ds doesn't understand much of the problems yet (how to go about them). It's definitely a different, refreshing approach. So many math curricula, so little time LOL :D

[stripe]

Stripe, are you using Japanese right now? How is it day to day?

Sigh. Are you ready for a novel?

 

I was using it (the workbooks), with various supplements from other programs (including Singapore's Primary Maths [3rd ed texts] and the NCERT book from India, and I began all of this with RightStart but stopped), but then I stopped before I got to numbers > 10 as it seemed to me that there was an understanding gap. I started all over again with MEP. Which has been interesting. Last night my son found a Singapore Primary Maths book (1B, actually) and was quite interested in the problems in the first section, on comparisons via subtraction.

 

There are still some things I like about the Japanese stuff -- I like a lot actually -- but the MEP activities seem to be providing a more robust and varied approach to arithmetic besides the usual word problems (Jane had 2 cookies, and Dave had 4; how many did they have together?/how many more did Dave have?) or simple equation solving ( of the 3 + 4 = ? variety).

 

Even there, I have been throwing in some Math Mammoth from her free downloads to clarify some points that needed additional practice, particularly to accentuate the inverse relationship between + and -, for which her worksheets seem to have helped significantly.

 

I may go back to the Japanese stuff (we almost finished 1A), but some things, most notably telling time, are not clear enough in how to teach, so I can't use them at all for that.

 

By the way, there is some really fun stuff, including nice games, in Reception. Even if you're using Year 1, I wouldn't overlook Reception.