Singapore Math without teacher's guide question

[ProudGrandma]

I would like to know if there is anybody in this group that has used Singapore for a years but never or rarely used the teacher's guide and was still VERY pleased with the results. I have a friend who has been using Singapore for 2 years without the TG and says she is plesed with the results so far...so I was just curious. Thanks.

[amyrjoy]

Me. Totally can't stand that manual. We are doing just fine. This is our first year with Singapore and the last. LOL. Mostly because of the TM!! BTW, my DD is in first grade. So we are doing 1a/1b.

[chiguirre]

I haven't cracked the HIG open during 1A and 1B, but my dd just sort of figured out stuff on her own before we covered it in Singapore. She asked my a few questions about place value, multiplication and time and the next thing I knew, she was telling me she had 600 seconds to play on her break. I'm sure I'll at least consult the HIGs further down the path and I do think it's useful to have them on hand, but you might not need them. I suspect I won't be using them in 2A or 2B either.

[catz]

I would like to know if there is anybody in this group that has used Singapore for a years but never or rarely used the teacher's guide and was still VERY pleased with the results. I have a friend who has been using Singapore for 2 years without the TG and says she is plesed with the results so far...so I was just curious. Thanks.

 

My son is finishing Singapore PM 6B and we've never had a Teacher's guide. I do have a degree in math and my son is in 3rd grade and figures a lot out on his own, just for the sake of full disclosure! But we've never had a problem.

 

It is racking my brain a little bit more to figure out if he's right or wrong at the 6B level! Whatever we use next, we'll probably invest in a TM or answer book.

[Miss Marple]

I used it through PM6B with all 4 boys long before the HIG were even in existence. A group of us used the forums to post answer keys/solutions for each level.

 

I like math, Singapore is taught the way I think/teach, and all my boys are very successful in the math realm.

[Matryoshka]

I would like to know if there is anybody in this group that has used Singapore for a years but never or rarely used the teacher's guide and was still VERY pleased with the results. I have a friend who has been using Singapore for 2 years without the TG and says she is plesed with the results so far...so I was just curious. Thanks.

 

I have been using Singapore from Earlybird and we're now in 6b, and I've never had a TG or HIG (which is what you'd want as a homeschooler). I've never felt the need for one, but I find the teaching illustrations in the text very intuitive as to what and how they're trying to teach, and I do teach every lesson and pull in manipulatives as needed - I don't hand it to the kids and expect them to figure it out. It seems a lot of people don't find the textbook as intuitive as I do - it's very spare without a lot of text explicitly saying what's to be done - mostly it's through diagrams and graphics and the little thought bubbles the kids are thinking. I think whether you'd feel the HIG was necessary or nice to have would depend a lot on if your brain 'clicks' with the way the text explains things and are able to 'read between the lines' to see what they're getting at.

 

I do have the answer keys - for the US Edition, there are two answer key booklets available, each spanning three years of the program, for just a few dollars each. You don't need the TG or HIG for an answer key - although I don't know if there's something similar for the new Standards Edition - then you may be tied into getting the HIGs if you want answers.

[Melissa B]

I've never seen them to say whether they are helpful or not, but I've had one dd successfully complete the Primary series and move into Dolciani without them as well as dds currently in 3B and 1A.

[ProudGrandma]

thank you very much for all of your help on this...I was wondering about this and know I feel better.

[Spy Car]

I'll be the TOTAL CONTRARIAN (:D).

 

My bed-time reading last night was the Standards Edition HIG for 1B. I think these are marvelous. There are insights for teacher parents on how to teach, even down to "word choices", methods, and extra hands-on activities that make Primary Mathematics a well-rounded program rather than just "workbooks" to be completed.

 

Interaction, games and activities make for a very different experience that filling out workbooks.

 

Beyond that the HIGS point out things a Singapore teacher would be "expected" to know (and teach) but that are not obvious from the Textbooks/Workbooks.

 

Saying "we could do the problems in the workbook without the HIGs" is (to my mind) entirely besides the point.

 

The HIGs, if the ideas (or some variation of them) are actually implemented, would help give a student and teacher a much better experience (understatement alert) than just treating the series as workbooks alone.

 

One man's opinion.

 

Bill

[catz]

I'll be the TOTAL CONTRARIAN (:D).

 

Interaction, games and activities make for a very different experience that filling out workbooks.

 

 

Bill

 

I've never had problems pulling together games or manipulatives if we've needed them to cement a concept. I also have a kid that sometime just does his math of the day correctly before I can even talk to him about it. He automatically visualizes this stuff and his head and he often balks if I want to demonstrate it. So I really do think it depends on a variety of factors.

 

I'm also finishing IA with my 5 year old right now, and I tend to do more of that kind of thing with her at this point. I just have never felt like we needed the HIG, especially at this level. When she reaches higher level Singapore, I might reconsider again for her if the concepts aren't clicking as easily. It'd be nice to have the TM for 6 for the answer keys alone.

[Melissa B]

It'd be nice to have the TM for 6 for the answer keys alone.

 

There are two answer keys. One for levels 1-3 and a second for levels 4-6. They are only about $5 each. But, they only have the answers, no full solutions.

[~Kirsten~]

I think the answer might totally depend on how "mathy" both the parent and the child are and how much the Singapore method of math just intuitively clicks for them.

 

For me, I can't imagine doing Singapore without the HIG. I'm not quite like Bill (in that the HIG is not on my nightstand :lol:), but there's a fullness and richness to the program that, on my own, I'd never have figured out in a million years. My dad? He wouldn't need the guide. Singapore is how he thinks already. I now understand why he was always so frustrated, trying to help me with math homework. My husband is the same way.

 

I. Need. Help. :tongue_smilie: The guide additionally gives me confidence that I'm explaining things correctly, that I personally am understanding the methodology. As a bonus, because of the guide, I've slowed waaaaaaay down with 1A in order to nail math facts. On my own, we'd be much farther along and slamming into a concrete wall (I suspect) simply because I wouldn't have realized that we were supposed to have the math facts cold. That's in the guide. Practice for that is in the guide. Games and introductory ideas, beyond what's on the pages of the text and workbooks are in the guide.

 

Honestly, I've recommended to others skipping the textbook before skipping the guide (and really, I wouldn't do that, but I think it's that crucial until you figure out how Singapore clicks).

 

So my guess is your friend is naturally mathy, or her children are, or both, and that's part of why she's so pleased with the results. :001_smile:

[catz]

There are two answer keys. One for levels 1-3 and a second for levels 4-6. They are only about $5 each. But, they only have the answers, no full solutions.

 

LOL - too late for kid #1, but thanks so much! Guess I haven't dug around that Singapore site quite enough. They'll be on my next Singapore order.:001_smile:

[catz]

I think the answer might totally depend on how "mathy" both the parent and the child are and how much the Singapore method of math just intuitively clicks for them.

 

For me, I can't imagine doing Singapore without the HIG. I'm not quite like Bill (in that the HIG is not on my nightstand :lol:), but there's a fullness and richness to the program that, on my own, I'd never have figured out in a million years. My dad? He wouldn't need the guide. Singapore is how he thinks already. I now understand why he was always so frustrated, trying to help me with math homework. My husband is the same way.

 

 

:iagree:Great way of stating this. I actually learned elementary math in a very non-conceptual, kill and drill way and it never made sense to me at all until I got to the Algebra level. I would have *LOVED* Singapore growing up. I went on to get a math degree and had great fun with math after that. Every kid/parent combo is different! Much of the beauty of homeschool is that you can take the approach that will work best for all the people involved at your house.

[Matryoshka]

Interaction, games and activities make for a very different experience that filling out workbooks.

 

Couldn't agree more. I don't have my kids just fill out the workbooks. We always did interaction, games and activiites. (well, less games now in 6th grade). I teach every lesson (though sometimes my younger dd "gets" it with just a very quick pointer).

 

Beyond that the HIGS point out things a Singapore teacher would be "expected" to know (and teach) but that are not obvious from the Textbooks/Workbooks.

 

See, it is obvious to me from the textbook (not the workbook) what and how I'm supposed to teach the concepts in Singapore. I have no problem figuring out how to bring in supplemental manipulatives, hands-on, games, etc. This is the reason I love Singapore and had to dump Miquon (which I know you love). I didn't want to read hundreds of pages to figure out the methodology - Miquon without the big tomes is like just using Singapore workbook alone - actually even more oblique. But I can look at the Singapore texts, which only give a vague hint of where to go with it, and see where they're pointing and run with it. In fact, I find it a lot of fun to read the text and say "aha! I see what they're getting at!! Cool!" It's like fun discovery - I don't need it spelled out in step-by-step exhaustive detail.

 

But other people look at the texts and say "whaaaa???" or "is that all there is?" Then the HIG would be indispensible to get what you need out of the program. Or if you just like it for bedtime reading. :D

 

These are my favorite types of programs - that think the way I think, and rather than scripting or long explanations, I can riff off the program with just a loose framework. Reading Reflex, Sequential Spelling and MCT LA are other programs that have done that for me.

[fractalgal]

I would like to know if there is anybody in this group that has used Singapore for a years but never or rarely used the teacher's guide and was still VERY pleased with the results. I have a friend who has been using Singapore for 2 years without the TG and says she is plesed with the results so far...so I was just curious. Thanks.

 

I did not use any teacher manual or HIG up through 4B with my daughter. I had the attitude that since my background is in math I shouldn't need it.

 

It would sometimes take me an hour to grade because I would save all her math for the week and grade it on Friday night. This last year I decided to get the Teacher's Manuals for Standards Edition 5A and 5B (because the HIG were not yet available).

 

Other than that there were a lot of mistakes in the answer key (likely because it was the first edition), I benefited greatly from having it. There were ideas on how to proceed and extra problems to work in the back of the book for problem solving. I think I did a better job presenting the ideas of the chapter by reading through the lesson the night before and adding in some of the ideas from the TM, so my daughter benefited as well. The answer key also saved me time when grading.

 

It did save money by not getting the manuals, but it cost me in time.

[Closeacademy]

So far I have done Earlybird to 4a and haven't used the HIG. I have owned the set for 2a/b (found it too stressful) and now 4a/b (didn't have the answers I was looking for).

 

I teach with Singapore but we notebook new concepts, make cheat sheets, and use a variety of creative manipulatives. I also review with Rod and Staff. I only buy the TG for Rod & Staff and write out the problems for my child to do.

 

The only thing I do find Singapore lacking in is review work. And don't tell me about the mental math pages in the back of the HIG because they aren't all that great and they only lead to tantrums here. Rod and Staff works best for review for us.:001_smile:

[amsunshine]

I'm with Bill -- I "heart" the HIGs!:tongue_smilie: They are sometimes bedtime reading for me, too!

 

However, I also feel the textbook lessons are very intuitive and most of the time, the HIG is more "reassurance" for me that I am approaching the lessons properly than anything. I do love the games and manipulative suggestions -- however, it's true that if you are mathy, you could figure these things out on your own. I find that the use of manipulatives is intuitive to me and my dds, but it's also nice to just open the HIG and instantly see what manipulatives we will be using for each lesson (as opposed to planning myself ahead of time). This saves me a little time, particularly when I do two different math lessons at different levels back to back. With multiple dc, this is very helpful, imo.

 

What I love most about the HIGs are the mental math drills. We use them faithfully, and they are not to be found anywhere else in the other components of the program. In fact, many complain that there is no drill in Singapore Primary Maths -- because they haven't used the HIGs, I think.

 

I also like to see how the lessons are scheduled week by week in the HIG. It keeps me "on track" -- if we speed ahead, fine....if we need to slow down, I have an idea of where we are and where we need to be if we want to finish by the end of the year.

 

HTH.

[Spy Car]

See, it is obvious to me from the textbook (not the workbook) what and how I'm supposed to teach the concepts in Singapore. I have no problem figuring out how to bring in supplemental manipulatives, hands-on, games, etc. This is the reason I love Singapore and had to dump Miquon (which I know you love). I didn't want to read hundreds of pages to figure out the methodology - Miquon without the big tomes is like just using Singapore workbook alone - actually even more oblique. But I can look at the Singapore texts, which only give a vague hint of where to go with it, and see where they're pointing and run with it. In fact, I find it a lot of fun to read the text and say "aha! I see what they're getting at!! Cool!" It's like fun discovery - I don't need it spelled out in step-by-step exhaustive detail.

 

Truth-told the "post-Miquon Bill" (who was inspired by reading those "tomes") and who definitely caught a "math-bug", and who spends a great deal of time about how I'm going to teach, and shares your excitement at looking at the Textbooks and thinking *a ha!*. And who reads weird books on math-education at bed-time. And draws ideas from too-many sources, and plays RS games, and "invents" activities to support learning. That guy? He doesn't really *need* the HIGS. He still gets value from them. Compares his ideas with those contained in them and thinks: "Not bad."

 

But our program would not be "shot" without them. Less rich, but I like thinking through how to teach, and coming up with ideas on my own (and stealing others) so "post-Miquon Bill" would get by.

 

But I'm trying to think what life would be like if we'd done another turn.

 

What if there was no "math-bug" moment? If I was the same guy, well-intentioned, but busy with other things and I just wanted to do the best I could to teach this somewhat-different-way-than-I-was-used-to kind of math. But I wasn't going to sit up nights reading Parker and Baldridge, I didn't know Cuisenaire Rods from a Cuisinart? If "Right Start" was a place they sold baby-strollers?

 

Well that guy (average Bill) would have felt blessed to have a lot of great ideas distilled into one little package. It could have been the case (easily). The current situation we might call a "fluke."

 

And I bet there are many parents who are hoping to get the best out of Primary Mathematics who could use (and would appreciate) the help. Without rounding-out the Textbooks and the Workbooks with active lessons (away from books) I think one leg of the stool would be missing. Yes, a math-intuitive can fill that gap on his or her own. But the HIGS are a boon (I think) for those who are otherwise pressed for time or at a loss as to how to make the materials come alive in this "third way."

 

And even being a complete-nut (who enjoys activity planning) I like the HIGs. And the additional teaching notes are always well-taken. They are clear and concise.

 

But other people look at the texts and say "whaaaa???" or "is that all there is?" Then the HIG would be indispensible to get what you need out of the program.

 

I agree. Still....

 

Or if you just like it for bedtime reading. :D

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

These are my favorite types of programs - that think the way I think, and rather than scripting or long explanations, I can riff off the program with just a loose framework. Reading Reflex, Sequential Spelling and MCT LA are other programs that have done that for me.

 

I don't know the first two (should I ?) but I'm dying to start MCT.

 

Bill

[Miss Marple]

See, it is obvious to me from the textbook (not the workbook) what and how I'm supposed to teach the concepts in Singapore. I have no problem figuring out how to bring in supplemental manipulatives, hands-on, games, etc.

 

That's exactly the experience I had. But I agree that the HIG would be beneficial for those who cannot do this naturally. My boys were naturally mathy probably because of the way I worked with them when very young - we played math mind games long before they ever had any formal schooling - they found it fun. I believe the availability of the HIGs has made the program more popular to a wider range of people.

 

The lack of the HIG does not appear to have been detrimental to my boys (based on their scores and current course work). And, IMO, the textbook is far more beneficial than the workbooks though I know many just use the workbooks (I just cannot see the advantage of that, though).

[AngelBee]

Are the HIG's from Singapore or from other retailers?

 

Like I think MFW and Sonlight have "Singapore" teacher's guides but I was under the impression that they are not from Singapore directly.

 

Bill, what one do you have? :D

[Spy Car]

Are the HIG's from Singapore or from other retailers?

 

Like I think MFW and Sonlight have "Singapore" teacher's guides but I was under the impression that they are not from Singapore directly.

 

Bill, what one do you have? :D

 

The HIGs are from singaporemath.com, but they are not from Singapore (the country). They are written by Jennifer Hoerst (Jenny) who hosts the forums at singaporemath.com.

 

I think there are other guides to Primary Mathematics, but I'm not familiar with any of them.

 

Jenny has said that the HIGs for the Standards Edition are greatly improved over the earlier US Edition HIGs (she wrote both) and members of this forum have agreed with that assessment. I've only seen the HIGs of SE 1A/1B, but I think these are quite well-done.

 

Bill

[AngelBee]

The HIGs are from singaporemath.com, but they are not from Singapore (the country). They are written by Jennifer Hoerst (Jenny) who hosts the forums at singaporemath.com.

 

I think there are other guides to Primary Mathematics, but I'm not familiar with any of them.

 

Jenny has said that the HIGs for the Standards Edition are greatly improved over the earlier US Edition HIGs (she wrote both) and members of this forum have agreed with that assessment. I've only seen the HIGs of SE 1A/1B, but I think these are quite well-done.

 

Bill

Thank you. I will have to check them out. :)

[~Kirsten~]

 

Well that guy (average Bill) would have felt blessed to have a lot of great ideas distilled into one little package. It could have been the case (easily). The current situation we might call a "fluke."

 

 

Bill, I imagine I'm NOT alone when I tell you how thankful I am for this fluke situation! As a result of the reading and work you've done (and willingly shared here), I can confidently use Singapore and MEP and Miquon and not totally flip out! :D Bill + nicely distilled package of HIG = significant decrease in math anxiety in my home. Thank you!

[~Kirsten~]

I didn't know Cuisenaire Rods from a Cuisinart? If "Right Start" was a place they sold baby-strollers?

 

 

Bill

Oh, and this? I nearly spit out my water! :lol:

 

 

 

Psst...the MCT wait is positively killing me as well.

[Spy Car]

Bill, I imagine I'm NOT alone when I tell you how thankful I am for this fluke situation! As a result of the reading and work you've done (and willingly shared here), I can confidently use Singapore and MEP and Miquon and not totally flip out! :D Bill + nicely distilled package of HIG = significant decrease in math anxiety in my home. Thank you!

 

You have made my day! :blushing:

 

Bill

[DarlaS]

Are the HIG's from Singapore or from other retailers?

 

Like I think MFW and Sonlight have "Singapore" teacher's guides but I was under the impression that they are not from Singapore directly.

 

Bill, what one do you have? :D

 

I believe they are published by Sonlight. Most of mine have been anyway.

 

ETA: US edition Level 2A and above are published by Sonlight. The standards ed. (and US. ed. 1B and below) are published by Singaporemath.com and sold by both their own site and Rainbow Resource.

Edited April 15, 2010 by darlasowders

[amsunshine]

I believe they are published by Sonlight. Most of mine have been anyway

 

 

Oh, dear. The HIGs for Singapore Primary Maths that Bill is talking about look like this and they are not published by Sonlight. Maybe Sonlight has their own teacher guides -- I don't know if they do or not. Those would be different.

 

If Sonlight has their own tms, I wonder how many people mistake what is published by Sonlight for the TGs/HIGs put out by singaporemath.com?

[joyfulhomeschooler]

another thing the HIG (home instructors guide) is good for is not only the games and activities it suggests but it has drills in the back so if you want some things memorized you can use those instead of having to make your own.

I personally love the HIG but we haven't started using Sinapore yet ;) we will start in the summer.

[DarlaS]

Oh, dear. The HIGs for Singapore Primary Maths that Bill is talking about look like this and they are not published by Sonlight. Maybe Sonlight has their own teacher guides -- I don't know if they do or not. Those would be different.

 

If Sonlight has their own tms, I wonder how many people mistake what is published by Sonlight for the TGs/HIGs put out by singaporemath.com?

 

Yes, those are the standards edition guides. I just updated my post to reflect that discovery.

 

Sonlight is the one who originally published the HIG's for the US and primary math editions. (If you look here you will see that even on the singaporemath.com site they are listed as published by Sonlight). I'm pretty sure they are all (all editions) by the same author.

[MamaReads]

The singapore guides published by sonlight are written by the same author as the guides published by singaporemath.com The ones on the singaporemath.com site are more recent and have fewer errors from what I understand but it is still the same philosophy of math.

 

BTW, Bill i am also appreciative of the fluke you experienced and all of the math knowledge you share on the boards.

 

Jesi

[amsunshine]

Yes, those are the standards edition guides. I just updated my post to reflect that discovery.

 

Sonlight is the one who originally published the HIG's for the US and primary math editions. (If you look here you will see that even on the singaporemath.com site they are listed as published by Sonlight). I'm pretty sure they are all (all editions) by the same author.

 

Aha! Thank you for that clarification.

[Susan in KY]

I rarely use the HIG's. I have them, though. Mostly I use them for the schedule in the front (which I tweak to suit our purposes) and for the Mental Math in the back. Rarely do I even cast a second glance at anything else, unless my dc is struggling with a concept and needs a different approach or a hands-on activity.

[missmoe]

I used Singapore without the TG's forever. Then I purchase a guide and AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! the program got so much better! I love the guides. I now won't go without my guides.

[kalanamak]

I am finding that not only have I not look in the HIG for months, I don't even use the text anymore!!

 

I look at what we are going to be doing in the workbook, get out my lap white board, break it down into steps and go into any background material, and then start working through the workbook! If that doesn't work, I do the EP and if that doesn't work, I move on and then keep revisiting the subject weekly until it clicks.

[HappyGrace]

NOT a mathy mom here.

 

I, like Bill, cuddle up with my HIGs! I was perusing the 2a and 2b HIGs for 2 1/2 hours at the playground yesterday while the dc played! They come with me practically everywhere for downtime reading (while I wait at ballet, etc.)

 

I *need* them-they are my "teacher training" on how to teach math.